Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Thanks for everyones input on this. At the end of the day, I will probably try Grip Kings with the Power Grips. My LBS has both, so I can check them out locally, get their opinion, and go from there. Practicing emergency bailouts (and working on bike handling skills in general), trying my existing clipless shoes with MKS Touring pedals, trying a stiffer shoe with the MKS pedals are all excellent ideas, and I will give those options a shot to see what happens. On paper, though, the GK with PG setup seems to offer the ability to pull up on the pedal stroke, allows any manner of shoe to be worn while providing good support, reduces nerve/circulation/numbness issues, and allows for quick and easy dismounting. Basically the combination seems to provide the (perceived) advantages of clipless pedals, while eliminating the (also perceived) disadvantages. Again, thanks for the suggestions and info. Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: On paper, though, the GK with PG setup seems to offer the ability to pull up on the pedal stroke, I thought it had been fairly well established that riders generally don't pull up. Even with clipless. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
I seem to recall reading that somewhere, too. I guess when the study was done, I wasn't in the test group, because I often pull up on the pedal when grinding up a hill. Steve On Dec 16, 2009, at 10:18 AM, Seth Vidal wrote: On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 9:45 AM, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: On paper, though, the GK with PG setup seems to offer the ability to pull up on the pedal stroke, I thought it had been fairly well established that riders generally don't pull up. Even with clipless. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I seem to recall reading that somewhere, too. http://www.rivbike.com/article/clothing/the_shoes_ruse -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
On Dec 16, 2009, at 8:36 AM, Steve Wimberg wrote: I seem to recall reading that somewhere, too. I guess when the study was done, I wasn't in the test group, because I often pull up on the pedal when grinding up a hill. They left me out, too! I can often pull my foot out of a clip-n-strap setup. Often when riding with slower folks, I'll try to ride by ONLY pulling up but not pushing down or ride with one leg, which pretty much requires pulling up if there's any sort of incline. However, Grant is probably right when he says during normal pedaling at normal cadences, nobody pulls UP on the backstroke, but it can certainly be done . Cheers, Ryan -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
I am size 15, wear very flexible sneakers, and use grip kings without issue. Much better than my old setup (sidis and eggbeaters, which did occasionally create numbness above 70-80miles). erik -- berkeley, ca bikenoir.blogspot.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Steve: I easily get numb feet when the pedal pressure hits too far forward on the ball of my foot and my foot is restrained by some sort of retainer. This happens with Power Grips, clipless pedals or toe clips and straps. I've toured for almost 2,000 miles with Power Grips on MKS touring pedals, and, with the straps snug, but not tight, I've been very comfortable. I also commute in regular street shoes on bear trap pedals without retainers with no issues. And, I've dialed in my clipless pedals with the cleat as far back as it will go - I'm usually numbness free with that set-up as well, during countless miles touring and training. If you've found a pedal system that allows you to pedal without numbness, why change the system? Instead, you might try reducing the spring tension on your clipless pedals so they release more easily. I know a couple of riders who have had similar concerns to yours (falling over while clipped). Interestingly, they also had never actually had it happen to them! I reduced the spring tension on their pedals, as I've suggested to you. But, in the end, both solved their concern in different ways. One decided that he wasn't willing to give up the perceived efficiency of clipless and he has improved his riding skills to the point where he no longer fears falling over. The other rider (my wife) begrudgingly switched to power grips and touring pedals and has discovered that she loves them! She found, as have I, that the Power Grip set-up combines pedaling efficiency with an easy release, the ability to wear normal shoes, and the ability to change up foot position over a long ride. I'll note here that both of the riders are middle-aged, fit, high mileage riders. One was able to get over his fear of falling and the other wasn't. I hope that helps. Dave On Dec 15, 7:26 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding Grip King pedals and their ability to eliminate numb feet on long rides. I started using clipless pedals about a year ago after my rides started increasing in length, and numbness in my feet became a problem. I had been using MKS touring pedals, and really can't use those on rides over 30 miles or so. The switch was extremely successful in keeping my feet from going numb, and I like riding with the clipless, in general. However, I have found that I get a little uncomfortable being clipped in when going up steep hills. It's always in the back of my mind that if I need to bail out because I can't pedal anymore, it's gonna be difficult because I'm clipped in. Granted, this hasn't happened yet, but why have the anxiety if I don't have to? This is where the Grip Kings come in. I am hopeful that the increased surface area of the pedal will spread the weight out over the bottom of my foot enough to keep the numbness at bay. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone had numb feet problems and had them relieved by using the Grip Kings? Like I said, I like the clipless pedals, but am willing to give up some of the things I like about them in order to gain a little piece of mind. Thanks, Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Although the RBW site says Power Grips do not work with Grip King pedals, they do. I use that setup on three different bikes and they work well. I don't understand why Riv makes this disclaimer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
On Dec 15, 11:35 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I should have been more clear on the cause of the numbness. It's not cold, but circulation(?) and pressure on the bottom of my foot is causing it. were you using any retention with the MKS touring pedals? and what kind of shoes were you using? with the move to clipless, you made a switch to a pedal with *less* surface area and most likely a shoe with a stiffer sole. you might consider whether your shoes are the issue before buying new pedals. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Steve I was clear on what you were describing. The numbness is usually directly a cause of pressure that impinges nerve branches in your foot. The cure for most cyclists is a combination of strategies that reduces that pressure. Some cyclists are more susceptible than others. Wearing shoes with a thick sole or a rigid, nylon shank helps (e.g., cycling shoes), as does reducing pressure by loosening toe straps. In your case, it sounds like you were using MKS touring pedals without clips and you felt numbness. Is that correct? If so, were you using soft, non-cycling shoes? That would be a reasonable cause. I am prone to foot numbness, and I can ride MKS touring pedals WITH cycling shoes, but not without. The other strategy that helps deal with numbness is moving cleats on clipless shoes back a few mm's - but, you're not having numbness problems with your clipless set-up. The Grip King pedals have a long platform and that will disperse the pressure over a wider area, thus relieving the cause of the numbness with a wider range of shoe choices. Dave On Dec 15, 9:35 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: Thanks for the replies. I should have been more clear on the cause of the numbness. It's not cold, but circulation(?) and pressure on the bottom of my foot is causing it. I do like the idea of using Power Grips on the Grip Kings, but also read that doesn't work. Richard - where to the ends of the straps connect to the pedals? Any pix? The main thing I didn't want to give up by using the Grip Kings is the ability to pull up on the pedal stroke. If the GKs can provide relief from numbness, and can use the Power Grips, while supplying a stable surface, maybe that is the best of both worlds. It's not too much to ask, right? Steve On Dec 15, 2009, at 10:16 AM, R Gonet wrote: Although the RBW site says Power Grips do not work with Grip King pedals, they do. I use that setup on three different bikes and they work well. I don't understand why Riv makes this disclaimer. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners- bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Steve: My current pedal of choice is the Grip King as it has a large surface area and good shoe traction, even when wet. I used Looks for many years, then SPDs. SPDs caused hot foot syndrome from too much pressure on long rides, especially multi-day tours. As I toured more, I needed more versatile shoes and went back to MKS platform touring pedals, sans toe clips. I have wide feet and the lack of retention and being able to wear any shoes was a delight. I've used MKS BMX pedals (sold by Riv), some other BMX pedals with a rough surface, and now Grip Kings. Once I got away from SPDs, the hot foot problem and tenderness disappeared. The off-roading I do is mainly fire trails and similar non-techncial stuff. dougP On Dec 15, 6:26 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding Grip King pedals and their ability to eliminate numb feet on long rides. I started using clipless pedals about a year ago after my rides started increasing in length, and numbness in my feet became a problem. I had been using MKS touring pedals, and really can't use those on rides over 30 miles or so. The switch was extremely successful in keeping my feet from going numb, and I like riding with the clipless, in general. However, I have found that I get a little uncomfortable being clipped in when going up steep hills. It's always in the back of my mind that if I need to bail out because I can't pedal anymore, it's gonna be difficult because I'm clipped in. Granted, this hasn't happened yet, but why have the anxiety if I don't have to? This is where the Grip Kings come in. I am hopeful that the increased surface area of the pedal will spread the weight out over the bottom of my foot enough to keep the numbness at bay. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone had numb feet problems and had them relieved by using the Grip Kings? Like I said, I like the clipless pedals, but am willing to give up some of the things I like about them in order to gain a little piece of mind. Thanks, Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
RE: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
-Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com -Original Message- From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com [mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com]on Behalf Of Patrick in VT Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2009 11:57 AM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: [RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet On Dec 15, 11:35 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I should have been more clear on the cause of the numbness... Patrick responded: ...you might consider whether your shoes are the issue... Cleat position can contribute to foot numbness, too. Try moving them back a little. Shoe's not too tight is it? Not trying to convince you to stay with them if you don't want to, but if you otherwise like the clipless pedals, there are solutions for foot numbness. steve frederick, east lansing, mi -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
On Dec 15, 12:59 pm, Frederick, Steve frede...@mail.lib.msu.edu wrote: Cleat position can contribute to foot numbness, too. Try moving them back a little. Shoe's not too tight is it? Not trying to convince you to stay with them if you don't want to, but if you otherwise like the clipless pedals, there are solutions for foot numbness. the way i'm reading the OP's problem is this: he likes clipless pedals - it remedied the foot numbness experienced with flat pedals, but he isn't totally comfortable with unclipping, especially when climbing. he's now asking whether a flat pedal - Grip Kings - will solve the numbness he experienced with the MKS touring pedal. to me, this sounds more like a shoe issue (soft sole v. stiff sole) than pedal issue. an easy way to test this would be to do as Dave suggested above: take a ride on the touring pedal with the clipless cycling shoes (and perhaps some power grips/other retention device as the OP would like to retain power through the entire pedal stroke). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Last summer I put in some miles on my Hilsen with Grip Kings. They were very comfortable. The longest ride I did was 60+ miles (each way) on an extended S24O. They worked well and I do love the simplicity of wearing sneakers while out on the bike. Still, to call the pedals Grip Kings is a bit of a misnomer. While the pedals are comfy I don't know that I'd use them off road or in situations where I'd be worried about slipping off the pedal. Prior to putting the Grip Kings on my Hilsen they had been on my commuter and worked fine for that. I ended up going with clipless pedals for my tour and was fine with that, no problems at all. I ended up putting my MKS touring pedals back on the commuter and realize that those work better for my feet, just a little more comfortable and grippy. Next summer I'll definitely be doing more S24Os and I'll definitely be pedaling free. --mike -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Steve: I attached the PG's according to the directions. I don't think I can write a description, but if you still want, I will take a pic and send it to you off-list. As another list member noted, you do have to pop off the reflectors from the pedal, but when I ride at night I have blinkies, reflective tape, spoke reflectors, and one of Grant's reflexite triangles on my back. The reflectors are nice, but you do need more. I do like the idea of using Power Grips on the Grip Kings, but also read that doesn't work. Richard - where to the ends of the straps connect to the pedals? Any pix? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
Ray: You are correct, you do have to remove the reflectors to use Power Grips with the Grip Kings. I didn't need to make any other alterations, though. I'm curious about your use of plastic spacers on the strap end side, since I needed no such modifications. The important point to make is that they *DO mount* to the Grip Kings with little effort. I'd also like to point out that I used to use the Power Grips for mountain biking, where you often have to get off the pedal ASAP with little warning, and I never once got hung up on them. When you're not thinking about it, it just happens. On Dec 15, 11:51 am, Ray Shine r.sh...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Steve -- I should have added that Power Grips DO MOUNT to GripKing pedals. Despite what some other posters are saying, mine were mounted quite well with just minor alterations. For instance, you must remove the reflectors from each pedal, and use a plastic spacer on the strap end side. I might have some pix of the set up. If I find any, I'll post them. The other thing I'd like t point out about the Power Grips is that to remove your foot -- let's say the right foot -- you need to push the heel out then pull the foot back to free the shoe from the strap. That is the exact same movement you do to release from a cleated pedal. There's really no difference. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
[RBW] Re: Grip Kings and Numb Feet
I don't use GK pedals because they don't appear wide enough for my wide feet. I had been using Crank Bros. 50/50 pedals and now use a Taiwanese brand magnesium pedal with sealed bearings. These grip a little better than the Crank Bros. and seem to be of higher quality. I have been riding retentionless now for about 15,000 miles on various pedals and I don't get numb feet. I ride with Tevas and now with my LaCrosse duck boots for winter. I also ride with any other shoe I own depending on where I am going or what I need to be wearing when I get there. There just is no reason in my experience to use any form of retention when a large surface area pedal with traction pins works just as well. Its just common sense that a large surface area pedal will distribute the pressure out on my feet no matter what shoe I wear. If I had rubber covers I could ride barefoot. I never have dismount problems either unlike when I feel over ( three times) when using clip in shoes. On Dec 15, 6:26 am, Steve Wimberg st...@stevewimberg.com wrote: I would like to get some feedback from the group regarding Grip King pedals and their ability to eliminate numb feet on long rides. I started using clipless pedals about a year ago after my rides started increasing in length, and numbness in my feet became a problem. I had been using MKS touring pedals, and really can't use those on rides over 30 miles or so. The switch was extremely successful in keeping my feet from going numb, and I like riding with the clipless, in general. However, I have found that I get a little uncomfortable being clipped in when going up steep hills. It's always in the back of my mind that if I need to bail out because I can't pedal anymore, it's gonna be difficult because I'm clipped in. Granted, this hasn't happened yet, but why have the anxiety if I don't have to? This is where the Grip Kings come in. I am hopeful that the increased surface area of the pedal will spread the weight out over the bottom of my foot enough to keep the numbness at bay. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Has anyone had numb feet problems and had them relieved by using the Grip Kings? Like I said, I like the clipless pedals, but am willing to give up some of the things I like about them in order to gain a little piece of mind. Thanks, Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
