[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
On Sep 30, 9:21 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: @ToddBS -- Actually, my implication was that the average bike shop does not have interest in stocking / displaying a versatile steel bike, although they might get a Soma or Surly at your request. That said, I think there is room for a Sam in your future. I think you should probably own all three bikes ... in various colors and ascending wheel sizes. That could actually work. My LHT is a green, 26 wheeled bike. The Stanyan is black and will be 650b. Sam I guess could be orange, though I'm more partial to the green. At least it's a different green. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
@ToddBS -- Actually, my implication was that the average bike shop does not have interest in stocking / displaying a versatile steel bike, although they might get a Soma or Surly at your request. That said, I think there is room for a Sam in your future. I think you should probably own all three bikes ... in various colors and ascending wheel sizes. Bryan On Sep 29, 7:58 pm, ToddBS tobars...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 29, 9:23 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: Knowing that the Sam is not a racy bike, and it is more versatile than most anything available at your local bike shop (maybe save a LHT or Soma Stanyan), is there a weight limit that would keep a potential buyer from owning one? Hmm... I own both of the other bikes you mentioned there (the Stanyan is actually getting built as a 650b). Does this mean I don't need a Sam? ;-) (You're not talking me out of one that easily!!) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
Weight is more a mental thing than a real physical factor for the recreational/touring rider. Even for racers, aerodynamics are probably more important than weight. (Wind resistance increases with the square of the velocity increase, hence the extra terrestrial looking outfits worn by Time Trialers) This past weekend, I rode my Ram on our local Alabama Bike MS ride, with heavy acorn canvas seat bag, frame pump, steel rails and leather Selle Anatomica saddle and 37mm Pasela tires, and carried a full rain suit (decent quality, maybe 1 1/2 lbs?) to boot, after an early AM glance at the radar. My bike was maybe 10 lbs heavier than the Scott and Orbea carbon rigs on 23 mm 150 psi rubber, with saddle envelopes that could barely hold a tube and a CO2 dispenser. You'd expect that my rig would have me trailing the pack, right? Actually no. At mile 30 when the heavens opened up ( I mean flash flood warning deluge levels) I pulled over and put on rain gear and was one of the less than 1/2 who finished the next 45 miles in relative comfort. The fat tires were surefooted at all times on wet roads, and handled the occasional chuck hole with aplomb. I ended the 75 miles at exactly my usual average pace (14.6 mph I am not fast, no matter what.) and dropped most of the fancy folks on the hills (I live in a hilly area, they don't. Hills get easier the more you ride them, as most folks here know.) I say hills because nothing was over an 8% grade on either day. For comparison, on Sunday, we had gorgeous weather and I rode the same average pace for 80 miles with a bit more climbing, without the rain suit. I spent most of the 2d day with a group who all noticed that I spent more time on my saddle and less standing up to relieve pain than they did. They ALL wanted to know about the Selle Anatomica. I explained that it was a lot heavier than what they were using. They replied they were now long past concern on bike weight and a lot more focused on being comfortable. Which is where this rambling post is trying to get to. As GP has noted, some weight comes along with building a capable. comfortable ride. As a footnote, let me mention that I've dropped almost 30 lbs since mid June, and THAT makes a huge difference in my riding. Tailwinds From: Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com is there a weight limit that would keep a potential buyer from owning one? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
A couple years ago, we had a customer with a full carbon Specialized Roubaix Pro, probably a 16 or 17-pounder, on which he intended to ride brevets up to and including PBP. He was referred to my shop because we had bags with leather straps that could be safely attached to carbon bars and seatposts. On a lark, I offered him a ride on a Rambouillet, and he thought it was pretty nice (of course). A week or so later, he decided to buy that Rambouillet, but it had already gone to a good home. I had one other that I thought was too big, but he assured me that he wasn't sensitive to trivialities like frame size, standover clearance, and bike fit, and he bought it. He told me later that the Rambouillet, despite being 6-7 lbs heavier than his plastic bike, was, for whatever reasons, quite a bit faster on some of his regular loops. I keep an eye on the local brevet series because many riders are friends and customers, and have noticed that this guy (on his Rambouillet) is usually among the front wave of finishers, even on his heavy bike. While weight does have some effect on speed and effort, in this case, at least, other factors were more than enough to compensate for a substantial difference in bike weight. On Sep 29, 9:57 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:19 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 9:46 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Weight is more a mental thing than a real physical factor for the recreational/touring rider. I disagree. For a recreational/touring rider who may stop and start quite often, and doesn't push for high speeds; weight matters and is a real, measurable, physical factor. I'm not suggesting gram shaving a commuter at the expense of durability. But if you're carrying around unnecessary extra pounds; they generally won't add to the enjoyment of riding a bicycle unless your ride is all downhill. I don't know about that. I have a 21 lb bike (my old race bike, with a heavier and more comfortable saddle than I used to use plus having swapped out the Campy Ergo stuff for more sensible components) and my All-Rounder which weighs in around 28 lbs with fenders, front rack, handlebar bag, generator and lights, 30+ year old Brooks Pro, etc. My speeds on the A/R aren't any slower and I enjoy riding it much more on hilly or flat rides. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
On Sep 29, 10:57 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:19 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 9:46 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Weight is more a mental thing than a real physical factor for the recreational/touring rider. I disagree. For a recreational/touring rider who may stop and start quite often, and doesn't push for high speeds; weight matters and is a real, measurable, physical factor. I'm not suggesting gram shaving a commuter at the expense of durability. But if you're carrying around unnecessary extra pounds; they generally won't add to the enjoyment of riding a bicycle unless your ride is all downhill. I don't know about that. I have a 21 lb bike (my old race bike, with a heavier and more comfortable saddle than I used to use plus having swapped out the Campy Ergo stuff for more sensible components) and my All-Rounder which weighs in around 28 lbs with fenders, front rack, handlebar bag, generator and lights, 30+ year old Brooks Pro, etc. My speeds on the A/R aren't any slower and I enjoy riding it much more on hilly or flat rides. When comparing those two bikes, you introduce too many variables to accurately isolate only one. Though, when your A/R handlebar bag is full with a commute load it will be slower than without it (all else equal). Not that speed is your goal, and not that a minute off your commute is a big deal; my point being is that weight makes a real, measurable, physical difference. Whether that matters to you or not is a personal decision. FYI, I'm perfectly happy, comfortable, and attain enjoyable speeds on an AHH with 42mm tires, 36 spoked wheels, fenders, bags, dynamo, etc. (even though I'm measurably faster on my 32 hole White Ind. wheelset with 30mm tires on the same bike). -not _intentionally_ poking a bee's nest John McMurry Burlington, VT --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
On Sep 29, 2009, at 11:03 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 10:57 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:19 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 9:46 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Weight is more a mental thing than a real physical factor for the recreational/touring rider. I disagree. For a recreational/touring rider who may stop and start quite often, and doesn't push for high speeds; weight matters and is a real, measurable, physical factor. I'm not suggesting gram shaving a commuter at the expense of durability. But if you're carrying around unnecessary extra pounds; they generally won't add to the enjoyment of riding a bicycle unless your ride is all downhill. I don't know about that. I have a 21 lb bike (my old race bike, with a heavier and more comfortable saddle than I used to use plus having swapped out the Campy Ergo stuff for more sensible components) and my All-Rounder which weighs in around 28 lbs with fenders, front rack, handlebar bag, generator and lights, 30+ year old Brooks Pro, etc. My speeds on the A/R aren't any slower and I enjoy riding it much more on hilly or flat rides. When comparing those two bikes, you introduce too many variables to accurately isolate only one. Not so many, really just weight. My position is the same between the bikes and arguably the Riv should be the aerodynamically worse bike. The local hills are about 350-400 feet in altitude gain, though, so it's not like I'm riding up l'Alpe-d'Huez (which I have done, and there I think the weight difference would be noticeable). Though, when your A/R handlebar bag is full with a commute load it will be slower than without it (all else equal). That's not been my experience. I should note that the bar bag is a Berthoud Mini 86, so it's about the size of the Lil Loafer just sideways on the rack. Doesn't hold that much, just enough for a brevet or century. My commuter has a Carradice Longflap and is a 3 speed, so it is a bit slower than my other bikes if for no other reason than the limited gearing choices. It weighs less than the A/R. Not that speed is your goal, and not that a minute off your commute is a big deal; my point being is that weight makes a real, measurable, physical difference. Whether that matters to you or not is a personal decision. Back when I raced speed was the primary goal on most rides. It remains a goal on brevets to a degree. But, as I get older (turned 50 today), I find I am less concerned with miles per hour than I am with smiles per hour. FYI, I'm perfectly happy, comfortable, and attain enjoyable speeds on an AHH with 42mm tires, 36 spoked wheels, fenders, bags, dynamo, etc. (even though I'm measurably faster on my 32 hole White Ind. wheelset with 30mm tires on the same bike). -not _intentionally_ poking a bee's nest Ah but when we talk within the Church of the Bicycle, there are bee's nests abounding! ;-) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
On Sep 29, 9:23 am, Bryan @ Renaissance Bicycles renaissancebicyc...@gmail.com wrote: Knowing that the Sam is not a racy bike, and it is more versatile than most anything available at your local bike shop (maybe save a LHT or Soma Stanyan), is there a weight limit that would keep a potential buyer from owning one? Hmm... I own both of the other bikes you mentioned there (the Stanyan is actually getting built as a 650b). Does this mean I don't need a Sam? ;-) (You're not talking me out of one that easily!!) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[RBW] Re: I know we're not supposed to talk about weight, but anyone Sam weight
Happy Birthday! On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 10:29 AM, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 11:03 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 10:57 am, Tim McNamara tim...@bitstream.net wrote: On Sep 29, 2009, at 9:19 AM, John McMurry wrote: On Sep 29, 9:46 am, Bruce fullylug...@yahoo.com wrote: Weight is more a mental thing than a real physical factor for the recreational/touring rider. I disagree. For a recreational/touring rider who may stop and start quite often, and doesn't push for high speeds; weight matters and is a real, measurable, physical factor. I'm not suggesting gram shaving a commuter at the expense of durability. But if you're carrying around unnecessary extra pounds; they generally won't add to the enjoyment of riding a bicycle unless your ride is all downhill. I don't know about that. I have a 21 lb bike (my old race bike, with a heavier and more comfortable saddle than I used to use plus having swapped out the Campy Ergo stuff for more sensible components) and my All-Rounder which weighs in around 28 lbs with fenders, front rack, handlebar bag, generator and lights, 30+ year old Brooks Pro, etc. My speeds on the A/R aren't any slower and I enjoy riding it much more on hilly or flat rides. When comparing those two bikes, you introduce too many variables to accurately isolate only one. Not so many, really just weight. My position is the same between the bikes and arguably the Riv should be the aerodynamically worse bike. The local hills are about 350-400 feet in altitude gain, though, so it's not like I'm riding up l'Alpe-d'Huez (which I have done, and there I think the weight difference would be noticeable). Though, when your A/R handlebar bag is full with a commute load it will be slower than without it (all else equal). That's not been my experience. I should note that the bar bag is a Berthoud Mini 86, so it's about the size of the Lil Loafer just sideways on the rack. Doesn't hold that much, just enough for a brevet or century. My commuter has a Carradice Longflap and is a 3 speed, so it is a bit slower than my other bikes if for no other reason than the limited gearing choices. It weighs less than the A/R. Not that speed is your goal, and not that a minute off your commute is a big deal; my point being is that weight makes a real, measurable, physical difference. Whether that matters to you or not is a personal decision. Back when I raced speed was the primary goal on most rides. It remains a goal on brevets to a degree. But, as I get older (turned 50 today), I find I am less concerned with miles per hour than I am with smiles per hour. FYI, I'm perfectly happy, comfortable, and attain enjoyable speeds on an AHH with 42mm tires, 36 spoked wheels, fenders, bags, dynamo, etc. (even though I'm measurably faster on my 32 hole White Ind. wheelset with 30mm tires on the same bike). -not _intentionally_ poking a bee's nest Ah but when we talk within the Church of the Bicycle, there are bee's nests abounding! ;-) -- Cheers, David Redlands, CA Bicycling is a big part of the future. It has to be. There is something wrong with a society that drives a car to workout in a gym. ~Bill Nye, scientist guy --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
