Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Patrick Moore]

It sounds to me as if you have quite a bit of cycling experience!

On Sat, Jun 18, 2016 at 8:43 AM, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> Thanks! I felt a little shy about chiming in with my experience in light
> of all the very knowledgeable people here so I appreciate your and
> everyone's kind welcome.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

Thanks! I felt a little shy about chiming in with my experience in light of 
all the very knowledgeable people here so I appreciate your and everyone's 
kind welcome.

I don't ride in KOPS position on any of my bikes - whether I have drop bars 
or upright. I always prefer my saddle back and a somewhat recumbent angle 
to my pedaling. Also, after trying every kind of clipless pedal system, 
I've concluded that I always prefer flat pedals for a whole host of 
reasons. This means I can move my feet around depending on conditions. I 
often have my feet further forward on the flat pedal than I'd ever have 
with a clipless pedal but I can change it up as needed. I love that freedom.

This reminds me that I put a Nitto Jaguar seatpost on my Joe because I 
think it gave me a little bit more setback than the stock post, which 
probably only matters if you have a Brooks saddle with short rails. It was 
a very small difference that I could be imagining but it seemed to feel 
better.

In consideration of your prior questions, I did a pretty steep climb on my 
upright Sam and thought about the difference between that and the Joe. I 
found I was always comfortable in the bar-end grip position, even at grades 
of 8-12%, but the Sam feels lighter and less planted on the ground than the 
Joe, with or without a front load on Joe. It is possible that a slightly 
lower position of my upright bars on Sam would help by adding a bit more 
weight to the front wheel. I think I prefer climbing with uprights to drops 
because the airflow to my lungs is better and I can enjoy the view more, 
which matters when you climb as slowly as I do. 

So commuting, touring, climbing (all slow for me) are all great with 
upright bars. Zooming along at high speeds is also fun upright. And, for 
me, descending with an upright bar is easier because the position slows me 
down and the brakes are easier to squeeze. I got a hand cramp yesterday 
doing a steep descent using drop bars with brakes that are hard for me to 
reach and squeeze (something I need to address on that bike). But I do like 
my drop bars too, especially when I am doing longer rolling routes where I 
like to go faster and can relax into various grip positions for some period 
of time. It is sort of hard to explain but the upright position is a more 
vigilant/aware position where the drop bar positions are more meditative 
and day-dreamy for me. I am following your other thread to see what others 
say about their upright riding preferences.
 

 
 
On Saturday, June 18, 2016 at 8:08:23 AM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
> Thanks, Val!
> Most informative. Nice ride report and info. Best thread I have seen in a 
> while here.
>
> One last question:
>
> Do you ride with your saddle positioned in KOPS, or slid all the way back 
> on the rails, etc? Just curious to see what people like on their upright 
> bikes for positioning.Thanks.
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Lungimsam]

Thanks, Val!
Most informative. Nice ride report and info. Best thread I have seen in a 
while here.

One last question:

Do you ride with your saddle positioned in KOPS, or slid all the way back 
on the rails, etc? Just curious to see what people like on their upright 
bikes for positioning.Thanks.

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

On Wednesday, June 15, 2016 at 6:30:10 PM UTC-6, Lungimsam wrote:
>
>  I am guessing that some grades were in excess of 9%. Could you tell us 
> how you used the choco moose(?) bars? How many hand positions do you use on 
> it, and in what circumstances?
>

> I usually ride drops and wonder how it feels riding such difficult terrain 
> in an upright position with upright bars. I am thinking of making my Sam an 
> upright bike and interested to know how works out.
>

Grades on this route never exceeded 8% but there were plenty of 6-10 mile 
stretches at 6-8% without letting up. So it wasn't very steep but the 
climbing was long duration at my slow, loaded, sight-seeing pace. I usually 
ride drops too but I found last year on tour on a different bike that I 
really wished for a more upright position to take in the scenery. These 
bars were great for my purposes. I had great stability, control, views, and 
comfort. I also felt like the upright position was great for getting oxygen 
into my lungs. My chest was up and open and breathing was easy. It was also 
great on downhills because I felt  like I had to brake less. 

I did have to spend a serious amount of time tweaking to find my preferred 
height for the bars. Too high and the bike was less steady and my hands 
would fall asleep. Too low caused too much pressure on my hands. After a 
number of micro-adjustments, I found a position that was completely 
comfortable. It was surprising to me what a difference a very small change 
could make.

I mostly rode with my hands on the grips -- no gloves needed, which felt 
wonderful to me. I would sometimes place my hands just on the far side of 
the brake levers/shifters -- in the corners. That was comfortable but a bit 
crowded. And I would sometimes place them on the flats (by which I mean the 
far stretch of bar that runs perpendicular to the frame). But that mostly 
felt too far and more leaned forward than I wanted to be on this ride. In 
Boulder, where the climbs are steeper (9-13% and sometimes 15%), I would 
use the flats a bit more often on the steeper parts. But I never felt 
tipped backwards even using the grip position. I am not riding for power or 
speed, just comfort and pleasure. 

What I thought I might prefer would be to possibly ditch the grips and move 
the brake levers and shifters further forward towards the corner so that I 
had a longer section of parallel bars that I could position my hands along. 
I sometimes felt like I wanted my hands exactly where the brake levers and 
shifters were located. But I really like having the brake levers close to 
the bar end, so I am not sure. 

Also, when I found my correct bar height, I realized that I might have 
preferred using my Imperial Flyer saddle after all. I had a wider b67 on 
this for the more upright position but with the climbing, I had to sit 
exactly right to avoid back of thigh friction. So I am going to try 
switching back and see how that goes. 

For what it is worth, I have Albastache bars on the Sam I bought from Rich 
via this list.  I love those too but that is a very different feeling bike. 
On that one, when climbing or descending, I usually have my hands out in 
front on the curves (which is also where the brake levers are located). The 
bar end position is great for everything else. I am not sure what the 
difference is. Maybe the long chain stay length on the Joe makes it feel 
more stable when climbing in an upright position because your weight is 
more centered? I haven't thought about it so that's just a quick guess. I 
had been focused on riding the Joe to make sure it was comfortable for the 
tour but now I plan to ride the Sam more to see what it likes. I just put 
some Rock ' Road tires on it and am looking forward to some mixed terrain 
riding.  


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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Lungimsam]

Nice ride report!! Great pics!! Thanks for sharing. 

Sounds like you hit just about all types of road riding terrain on the 
trip. Downhills, long climbs, flats, etc. I am guessing that some grades 
were in excess of 9%.  Could you tell us how you used the choco moose(?) 
bars? How many hand positions do you use on it, and in what circumstances?

I usually ride drops and wonder how it feels riding such difficult terrain 
in an upright position with upright bars. I am thinking of making my Sam an 
upright bike and interested to know how works out.

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[RichS]

Valerie,

Thank you for sharing your experiences with the small panniers. I'm so tempted! 
Thinking they would pair well with my medium SV Saddlesack. Happy trails on 
your Joe App!

Regards,
Richard

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

Thanks everyone for the kind words! Yes, Patrick, it was my first tour on 
the Joe. It was great! I toured on a Surly Straggler 650B last year and 
that bike had no life in it. The Joe is fun to ride (and pretty to view) 
and that adds positive energy to the experience. 

Richard -- yes, those are Berthoud special small panniers. I am surprised 
by how much I love them. When I first got them, I laughed at how small and 
cute and seemingly pointless they are but they are actually the perfect 
size for a long day trip. I can fit tools, tubes, lunch, a windbreaker, and 
more in them. I use one of the outside pockets for my little camera and the 
other for quick access to lip balm, sunscreen, etc. I do not notice them at 
all in terms of weight or handling and I like how minimal they look on the 
bike. They are not quite big enough for me to use on an overnight (with a 
change of outfit + toiletries) but would be adequate in conjunction with a 
large handlebar bag. My set came with klickfix attachments, which I don't 
generally like for aesthetic reasons, but they work great and enable me to 
quickly pop a bag on and off the rack without any fiddling. 

For what it is worth, I expected I would really prefer the Berthoud large 
rack top bag but I have not found any way to use that bag. I can't get it 
on securely. It is too bulky to fit things neatly.It looks awkward when 
empty. I need to assemble a list of bags I don't use for sale or trade . . 
. .  

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 5:12:21 PM UTC-6, RichS wrote:
>
> In the second to last picture are the panniers the Berthoud special small 
> model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your thoughts?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Deacon Patrick]

Val,

Sweet! The San Juans are a stunningly beautiful and that is a wonderful and 
challenging route! Well done and what a great (I presume) Inaugural tour.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 8:49:09 AM UTC-6, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to 
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango 
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright 
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the 
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I 
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also 
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted 
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on 
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and 
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable 
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet 
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a 
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra 
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and 
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the 
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike 
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else 
> I will go with it. 
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. 
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the 
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. 
> . . 
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[RichS]

Valerie,

Sweet looking Joe App and nice, informative ride report and pics! Looks 
like a great trip. In the second to last picture are the panniers the 
Berthoud special small model? Whatever they are I like them. What are your 
thoughts?

Many thanks!
Richard

On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 10:49:09 AM UTC-4, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I just completed a credit card tour with my Joe Appaloosa and wanted to 
> share my experience. I did the San Juan Skyway going clockwise from Durango 
> CO. I loved the low gears, which made climbing easy, and the upright 
> position, from which I could enjoy the spectacular scenery. I swapped the 
> stock saddle, which I like on a different bike, for a Brooks B67. I think I 
> may have preferred my Flyer Imperial on this route for the climbs. I also 
> swapped the very decent stock tires for Marathon Supremes 50-584. I wanted 
> something wide, smooth, and puncture resistant and these performed great on 
> pavement, chipseal, loose gravel, and over bumps and seams in the road and 
> on bridges.  I liked the stock pedals, which were perfectly comfortable 
> over long distances because they were grippy but I could move my feet 
> around as needed. I had front and rear panniers and a front basket for a 
> total of 22 pounds of gear for the week. I didn't even notice the extra 
> weight. The bike was very stable both on slow uphills and fast descents and 
> was very fun to ride because I was so comfortable. I also really loved the 
> German mirror for keeping track of vehicles and riders behind me. The bike 
> performed exactly as I had hoped and I am excited to think about where else 
> I will go with it. 
>
>
> I'd love to hear about trips others have done or plan to do on your Joes. 
> I highly recommend the San Juan Skyway. The views are amazing and the 
> mountain towns are fun to visit. Every overnight stop has its own brewery. 
> . . 
>
> Val in Boulder, CO
>

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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Shoji Takahashi]

Great pics, Val. Still smiling after climbing those hills-- says a lot!

tailwinds, shoji



On Tuesday, June 14, 2016 at 11:42:09 AM UTC-4, Valerie Yates wrote:
>
> I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are 
> a few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my 
> photos in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.
>
>
> Lizard Head Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Bike path into Telluride:
>
>
>
> 
>
> Red Mountain Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Heading to Molas Pass:
>
>
>
> 
>  
> 
>
>
> Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens 
> on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold 
> Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid 
> mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that 
> bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I 
> will plan to create an album next time. 
>
>
> Val in Boulder CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks for the photos and the additional *apercus*. I'm particularly
interested in your dirt surface impressions. Hell, y'all may just convert
me to JAs/Clems/etc. and Wald baskets! But I will keep my drop bars, thank
you.

And by no means too many photos.

Meshing this thread with the long stays thread: my 2 custom Riv Roads have
long stays by road bike standards -- ~ 45 cm -- and my Matthews has stays
at least as long. These 3 bikes are the epitome of handling, IME.

Patrick "just rode the Hon Solo with M bar, and it wasn't bad at all"
Moore, meshing both threads with the M bar thread.



On Tue, Jun 14, 2016 at 9:24 AM, Valerie Yates  wrote:

> I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are
> a few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my
> photos in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.
>
>
> Lizard Head Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Bike path into Telluride:
>
>
>
> 
>
> Red Mountain Pass:
>
>
> 
>
>
> Heading to Molas Pass:
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
>
> Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens
> on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold
> Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid
> mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that
> bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.
>
>
>
> 
>
>
> 
>
>
> Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I
> will plan to create an album next time.
>
>
> Val in Boulder CO
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>



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[RBW] Re: Joe Appaloosa on tour

[Valerie Yates]

I see what you are saying. :)  It does feel rather like a dream. Here are a 
few pics that my trip-mates took and shared.  I plan to assemble my photos 
in an album in the next few days or so and will include a link.


Lizard Head Pass:





Bike path into Telluride:




Red Mountain Pass:




Heading to Molas Pass:



 



Patrick -- before I switched my tires over to the Supremes, I had Big Bens 
on it and I rode it up and over a pretty rugged /rutted jeep trail in Gold 
Hill (the Switzerland Trail, Boulder CO). I am generally a pretty timid 
mountain biker and was so surprised at how much I enjoyed the trail on that 
bike. I felt really secure and it was easy to handle and loads of fun.







Is that too many pictures? Sorry if I overloaded anyone's data plan. I will 
plan to create an album next time. 


Val in Boulder CO






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