[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Deacon Patrick]

Hey Mitch. This may deserve it's own thread to avoid hijacking Michael's, 
so if there will be some back and forth, perhaps start it?

I'd already been barefoot for three years when I began biking again, and 
being as close to barefoot as possible is part of what makes it possible 
for me to ride with vertigo. yes, I rode barefoot for several years. I 
switched to wearing sandals 
(these: https://xeroshoes.com/shop/feeltrue-products/ztrek-men/) because on 
single track my toes would catch rocks or roots. Sandals hold them up just 
enough. They're pretty close to barefoot and they allow for spikes on both 
sides of the pedals (VP Vice san spikes are hands down the best barefoot 
pedal I've used).

A few tips: I ride with a mid-foot pedal position, which you can see well 
here: http://thegrid.ai/withabandon/columbine), and it requires a lower 
saddle; safety is the reason I now wear sandals as I mentioned, but if I 
didn't ride single track I'd be just fine barefoot on paved and dirt roads, 
and prefer it it. Because of increased foot feel, plenty of grip barefoot 
on the pedal, but that requires the foot wrapping around the pedal a wee 
bit and that leads to rock and root snake bites. For me, temps cooler than 
45 I need full coverage on my feet because of wind and wet, especially at 
downhill speeds. Boiled wool socks 
(https://www.sweaterchalet.com/dachstein-woolwear/dw-5115-adult-socks/#cc-m-product-11653655331)
 
are what I wear in colder temps, either with sandals or with my minimalist 
winter boots 
(https://otzshoes.com/collections/men/products/brogan-vibram-leather-mens-camel 
I remove the cork footbed, which makes room for the socks. with ventile 
gaters this system works down to -20˚F).

With abandon,
Patrick

On Wednesday, July 5, 2017 at 11:48:23 PM UTC-6, Mitch Harris wrote:
>
> Patrick, do I remember correctly you used to pedal barefoot during your 
> feet strengthening time? Do you still? Do you have any pedal suggestion for 
> barefoot riding? I remember enjoying barefoot riding for a long time in my 
> childhood using the rubber sided pedals common on consumer bikes back then. 
> There might be a safety issue riding barefoot (thinking like a motorcyclist 
> here) but I'd like to try it again. 
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Mitch Harris]

Patrick, do I remember correctly you used to pedal barefoot during your 
feet strengthening time? Do you still? Do you have any pedal suggestion for 
barefoot riding? I remember enjoying barefoot riding for a long time in my 
childhood using the rubber sided pedals common on consumer bikes back then. 
There might be a safety issue riding barefoot (thinking like a motorcyclist 
here) but I'd like to try it again. 

+2 on the Giro Republic. My wife with very sensitive choosey feet has said 
her Giro Republic are the best she's felt. She uses Frogs too.

I use Dromartis and Vittoria 1976, both with slot cleats, clips, and 
straps. 

--Mitch 

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:32:29 PM UTC-6, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Michael, I can't help with the shoes, but if you are interested in 
> something that may help the tender feet, I can help with that. I used to 
> have feet so tender (and weak, though I didn't know it, save for my "need" 
> for orthotics) I couldn't walk barefoot in the house on wood floors. Long 
> story short, for other reasons, I began walking barefoot up and down our 
> gravel road (out and back is two-tenths of a mile) daily. Boy howdy! Was 
> that a challenging experience! But my feet woke up and got stronger. They 
> tingled for two weeks straight, like a leg that falls asleep then gets 
> blood back. My feet just needed to escape their prison and be used as God 
> intended and get strong again. Perhaps something similar in your case?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:26:39 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
>> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
>> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
>> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
>> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
>> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>>
>> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
>> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
>> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>>
>> Suggestions welcome.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Sean Kline]

All: it's a completely different style and feel, but if you're interested 
in a classic leather biking shoe, Dromarti is having a sale right 
now: https://dromarti.com/cycling-shoes/sportivo-classic (black or brown). 
I. love. riding. in these. Pricey, even at its sale price of ~$165, but 
strong and comfortable. Again, a very different shoe than Keen.

~Sean

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 4:26:39 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>
> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks for all the suggestions.  I also have a pair of the Keen commuters, 
which are pretty good, but my feet like the Austin pedlars better.  The 
good news is I have found them.  They were hiding in a little used gym bag. 
 I have no idea how they got there!

Michael

On Monday, July 3, 2017 at 10:31:01 AM UTC-4, TampaTech wrote:
>
> I wear Keen Commuters with my Crank Brothers Candy pedals. They are cool 
> and comfortable both on and off the bike here in hot, wet Florida. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Tim Butterfield]

There is a huge difference between barefoot and any kind of shoe, even the
"barefoot" kind.  Some of the more minimalist shoes might let the foot move
more fully, but they are still a restriction.  It is similar to moving from
a cast to an ace bandage to a surgical glove.  The latter may be the most
minimal, but it is still not as sensitive as bare skin.  It also takes a
not insignificant amount of time to build up a foot that is used to
(atrophied from) being in a cast.

As for a bike shoe, I like a sandal when weather allows it.  Currently,
that is a Luna Sandal.  I consider it as 'portable ground' with only a bare
foot on top of it.  But, it protects me from the spikes of my pedals and
from scraping my feet on the ground when coming to a stop.

Tim


On Sun, Jul 2, 2017 at 4:44 PM, Michael Hechmer  wrote:

> Thanks for the advice Deacon.  I tried the "barefoot" shoe thing both for
> walking and cycling a few years ago without much success.  I went to a new
> podiatrist who told me that my problem was that I was not fat enough!
> While I was still reveling in ecstasy he added that he was only referring
> to my feet!  I had never focused on it before but suddenly realized that my
> feet have virtually no fat to cushion them and he recommend some well
> supported NB shoes, which have served me well.  I also do well in Keens,
> and have both the Austins & an older commuter bike sandal, and until
> recently the Austin Pedlars.
>
> Michael
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[ted]

Michael,

You might look at the Giro Republic shoe. The uppers are pretty nice, they 
are walkable (sdp/frog compatible) with replaceable wear pads, they are 
lace up (no buckles or velcro) and don't look too goofy to me. I'm very 
happy with my pair and frogs. 

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 4:26:39 PM UTC-7, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>
> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Deacon Patrick]

Huh. Very interesting. My feet have definatly gotten "fatter" (thicker 
pads, neither fat nor calluses), but it takes time to build up, and likely 
longer if you are wearing "barefoot" shoes.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:44:48 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Thanks for the advice Deacon.  I tried the "barefoot" shoe thing both for 
> walking and cycling a few years ago without much success.  I went to a new 
> podiatrist who told me that my problem was that I was not fat enough! 
>  While I was still reveling in ecstasy he added that he was only referring 
> to my feet!  I had never focused on it before but suddenly realized that my 
> feet have virtually no fat to cushion them and he recommend some well 
> supported NB shoes, which have served me well.  I also do well in Keens, 
> and have both the Austins & an older commuter bike sandal, and until 
> recently the Austin Pedlars.
>
> Michael
>
> On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 7:32:29 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>>
>> Michael, I can't help with the shoes, but if you are interested in 
>> something that may help the tender feet, I can help with that. I used to 
>> have feet so tender (and weak, though I didn't know it, save for my "need" 
>> for orthotics) I couldn't walk barefoot in the house on wood floors. Long 
>> story short, for other reasons, I began walking barefoot up and down our 
>> gravel road (out and back is two-tenths of a mile) daily. Boy howdy! Was 
>> that a challenging experience! But my feet woke up and got stronger. They 
>> tingled for two weeks straight, like a leg that falls asleep then gets 
>> blood back. My feet just needed to escape their prison and be used as God 
>> intended and get strong again. Perhaps something similar in your case?
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>> On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:26:39 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>>
>>> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
>>> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
>>> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
>>> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
>>> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
>>> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>>>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>>>
>>> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
>>> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
>>> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>>>
>>> Suggestions welcome.
>>>
>>> Michael
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Michael Hechmer]

Thanks for the advice Deacon.  I tried the "barefoot" shoe thing both for 
walking and cycling a few years ago without much success.  I went to a new 
podiatrist who told me that my problem was that I was not fat enough! 
 While I was still reveling in ecstasy he added that he was only referring 
to my feet!  I had never focused on it before but suddenly realized that my 
feet have virtually no fat to cushion them and he recommend some well 
supported NB shoes, which have served me well.  I also do well in Keens, 
and have both the Austins & an older commuter bike sandal, and until 
recently the Austin Pedlars.

Michael

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 7:32:29 PM UTC-4, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> Michael, I can't help with the shoes, but if you are interested in 
> something that may help the tender feet, I can help with that. I used to 
> have feet so tender (and weak, though I didn't know it, save for my "need" 
> for orthotics) I couldn't walk barefoot in the house on wood floors. Long 
> story short, for other reasons, I began walking barefoot up and down our 
> gravel road (out and back is two-tenths of a mile) daily. Boy howdy! Was 
> that a challenging experience! But my feet woke up and got stronger. They 
> tingled for two weeks straight, like a leg that falls asleep then gets 
> blood back. My feet just needed to escape their prison and be used as God 
> intended and get strong again. Perhaps something similar in your case?
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
> On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:26:39 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
>> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
>> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
>> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
>> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
>> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>>
>> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
>> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
>> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>>
>> Suggestions welcome.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Need new shoes

[Deacon Patrick]

Michael, I can't help with the shoes, but if you are interested in 
something that may help the tender feet, I can help with that. I used to 
have feet so tender (and weak, though I didn't know it, save for my "need" 
for orthotics) I couldn't walk barefoot in the house on wood floors. Long 
story short, for other reasons, I began walking barefoot up and down our 
gravel road (out and back is two-tenths of a mile) daily. Boy howdy! Was 
that a challenging experience! But my feet woke up and got stronger. They 
tingled for two weeks straight, like a leg that falls asleep then gets 
blood back. My feet just needed to escape their prison and be used as God 
intended and get strong again. Perhaps something similar in your case?

With abandon,
Patrick

On Sunday, July 2, 2017 at 5:26:39 PM UTC-6, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Urgh,  I have this sinking feeling I left my Ausrtin Pedlars  with Frog 
> cleats at a trail head.  Anyway i can't find them anywhere and that's the 
> last place I remember seeing them.   They are my all time favorite shoe / 
> cleat combination. I have very tender feet and the combination of the 
> pretty stiff sole, moveable cleat and walk about looks provided everything 
> I wanted.  My web search suggests that Keen no longer makes the pedlar. 
>  Does anyone know of a source or a good alternative?
>
> I gave my White ind. pedals to my wife and see that they are now $239, 
> ouch.  I looked at the RBW site and they no longer sell the MKS Touring 
> pedal, which gave me a WTF moment.
>
> Suggestions welcome.
>
> Michael
>

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