[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

There's not much else to say 'til we see feelers about production and deposits. 
I'm interested, but the bike isn't really going to be a thing until next year. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Wow.  This thread died.  Lack of interest in the Boots?  Anyone heard the 
details on what’s being changed?  I wanna want one. 

Clayton
DDD

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

if  I was planning on fitting 2.8's on the Gus, I personally would want a 
wider rim than a 24mm internal width rim. I have put 2.4's on my blunt ss 
rims, but that is about the tire width limit I would want on those. The 
tires just get way too round. Most plus bikes I've seen on the trails have 
much wider internal width rims than 24mm...like 35mm and up. 

I think we will see a new rim for this bike anyway. 2.4s do work okay on 
the Blunt SS and probably on the Cliffhanger. I have 55mm tires on my 
cliffhangers which work well on them. 

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 10:43:49 PM UTC-5, Collin A wrote:

> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

Those people who want to build up a bike with 27.5 x 2.8” tires on rims that 
are lighter than road rims should not buy the Gus Boots Willsen. That’s a fact. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[CMR]

I think the Blunt SS is a better comparison, it's a similar width ~25mm 
internal and weighs something ridiculous like 395 grams. A big issue is 
wide rim + braking surface means a heavy enough aluminum to not dent and 
affect braking. Dents in disc rims are not a gigantic issue usually, and 
these lightweight aluminum rims do dent. That said I think the Alex rims 
are definitely heavy, but the Riv crew lean toward to the heavy duty side 
for rims, which has its pros and cons.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

The Velocity Blunt is regarded as the light wide 27.5" disc rim, and it 
weighs 570g and costs $100 per hoop
The DM24 is a hefty 725g for a 622mm size.  Scaled down to 584, that would 
be around 680g.  Riv sells those hoops for $50 each (I emailed Rich and 
asked). 

So for a rim-brake rim that weighs 100g more than a light disc brake rim, 
and costs $50 less per hoop.  That's in the ball park of reasonable, isn't 
it?

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, September 25, 2018 at 2:21:53 PM UTC-7, Hetchins52 wrote:
>
> 725 grams (not clear which size that is on the Luna eBike site) 
> Wow! That's hefty!
>
> David
>
> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 1:36:35 PM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>> Via the g00gle search for " Alex DM24 rim 700c "  :)
>>
>> https://lunacycle.com/alex-ebike-rim-dm24/
>>
>> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 4:22:19 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>>>
>>> Well for one, the question posed earlier was where does one find wide, 
>>> rim-braked rims.
>>>
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Hetchins52' via RBW Owners Bunch]

725 grams (not clear which size that is on the Luna eBike site) 
Wow! That's hefty!

David

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 1:36:35 PM UTC-7, Garth wrote:
>
>
> Via the g00gle search for " Alex DM24 rim 700c "  :)
>
> https://lunacycle.com/alex-ebike-rim-dm24/
>
> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 4:22:19 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Well for one, the question posed earlier was where does one find wide, 
>> rim-braked rims.
>>
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Reed Kennedy]

On Thu, Sep 20, 2018 at 3:02 AM 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Thanks, guys. I guess they would recommend the Cliffhangers for a build?
>

Swung by Riv HQ with some folks after riding Briones yesterday. Will
confirmed that the built-bike in the pictures is a size Large with 650B
wheels. I didn’t look, but one of the other fellas on the ride (John?)
checked out the rims and said they were indeed Cliffhangers.

If you visit Riv and are willing to do some serious climbing consider
Briones! It was lovely. Pictures and stuff:
https://www.strava.com/activities/1860749043


Best,
Reed


On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:48:11 PM UTC-4, DarinM wrote:
>>
>> Price was mentioned in the "Sept 8, but..." Blahg posts. $1500 for frame
>> and fork only, but also $1900 for fillet brazed. He didn't specifically say
>> both would be available, maybe they're going to do one or the other? Or
>> maybe both, they got samples of both. Sounds like no stock completes a la
>> Clem.
>>
>> Darin
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 7:15:45 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I can't recall if it was mentioned whether the Gus Boots would be
>>> offered as complete only or also as a frameset? And was a general
>>> pricepoint mentioned?
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Garth]

In other words . 

*shiitake  happens !  *Life rolls on and rolls on Well !  



In regards to such rims , I suspect any bike shop that has a supplier 
catalog either in paper or web could look up such a re-quest for specific 
width 27.5 rims, but it would help if you had certain specific models in 
mind as I am unaware if the catalogs list specs beyond the essentials of 
identification . 

Or, contact mfr. distributors listed on their website(if listed) , as 
that's who the mfr. would direct you if you contacted them directly. 




BTW, I did find ebikes.ca that had 650B size in stock, but shipping to usa 
is insanity. If you live in Canada you're set though !
http://www.ebikes.ca/shop/electric-bicycle-parts/rims/rim275-dm24.html

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Garth]

Lighten up Igor . I get it ... you asked for 27.5 rims and I gave you a 
link for 700c/26 , and now you are asking did anyone read your quest-I-on . 

I know  "people just don't listen ... people can't read . people 
are so blah blah blah infinitum ". "I'm so offended "   and a million and 
one "other" ways of crying "foul" . 

Of such thoughts anymore, no matter who says/thinks it , even I : * hmmm 
  * *so  what *? 

Reminds me of the song "poor poor pitiful me" . I crack up every time I 
hear it !Ahahahahaahahahaahah ! 





On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 5:54:50 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Did anyone read anything I wrote?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

"Did anyone read anything I wrote?"

Yes. Garth linked those rims at Luna Cycle, the ebike people. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

You appeared to be getting at something, either to make a point or to 
accomplish something else.  If you just want direct answers to your direct 
questions, fine.

Igor asked: 
"Have you seen these for sale anywhere by themselves?"  

Answer: "No"

Igor asked: 
"Did anyone read anything I wrote?"

Answer: "Yes"

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 2:54:50 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Did anyone read anything I wrote?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

Did anyone read anything I wrote?

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

Igor indicates that he’s curious to find replacement rims for his Clem Smith 
Jr. 

How many replacement rims do you want to buy for your Clem?  What spoke hole 
count?  Do you prefer silver or black?  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, Ca

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Garth]

Via the g00gle search for " Alex DM24 rim 700c "  :)

https://lunacycle.com/alex-ebike-rim-dm24/

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 4:22:19 PM UTC-4, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Well for one, the question posed earlier was where does one find wide, 
> rim-braked rims.
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

Well for one, the question posed earlier was where does one find wide, 
rim-braked rims.

Also simply curious because when I had the Clem that came with these stock, 
I too wondered where replacements could be had.

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 4:18:55 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Igor
>
> I'm curious why you are asking. 
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>>
>> Have you seen these for sale anywhere by themselves? Alex's website does 
>> not list the 27.5" size
>>
>> http://www.alexrims.com/products/dm24-2/
>>
>> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> The widest 650B rim brake rim I've ever seen is the DM24 on my 
>>> HubbuHubbuH tandem.  Those are 32mm outside width and 24mm inside width 
>>> with uber-thick sidewalls.  I would think the Cliffhanger or the DM24 would 
>>> both work fine for 2.8" tires. 
>>>
>>> BL
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 11:01:55 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:

 I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers: 

 http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

 30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been 
 using the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with 
 them, and I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim 
 for 
 Gus. 

 On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers 
> around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this 
> particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 
> 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 
> rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? 
> I've 
> poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I 
> haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order 
> (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or 
> at 
> a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
> I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with 
> normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .



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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

Igor

I'm curious why you are asking. 

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 1:14:44 PM UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Have you seen these for sale anywhere by themselves? Alex's website does 
> not list the 27.5" size
>
> http://www.alexrims.com/products/dm24-2/
>
> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> The widest 650B rim brake rim I've ever seen is the DM24 on my 
>> HubbuHubbuH tandem.  Those are 32mm outside width and 24mm inside width 
>> with uber-thick sidewalls.  I would think the Cliffhanger or the DM24 would 
>> both work fine for 2.8" tires. 
>>
>> BL
>>
>>
>> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 11:01:55 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers: 
>>>
>>> http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>>
>>> 30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been 
>>> using the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with 
>>> them, and I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim for 
>>> Gus. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

 Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers 
 around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this 
 particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 
 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 
 rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? 
 I've 
 poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I 
 haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order 
 (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or 
 at 
 a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
 I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with 
 normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

Have you seen these for sale anywhere by themselves? Alex's website does 
not list the 27.5" size

http://www.alexrims.com/products/dm24-2/

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 2:23:48 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> The widest 650B rim brake rim I've ever seen is the DM24 on my HubbuHubbuH 
> tandem.  Those are 32mm outside width and 24mm inside width with uber-thick 
> sidewalls.  I would think the Cliffhanger or the DM24 would both work fine 
> for 2.8" tires. 
>
> BL
>
>
> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 11:01:55 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>>
>> I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers: 
>>
>> http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>>
>> 30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been using 
>> the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with them, and 
>> I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim for Gus. 
>>
>> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers 
>>> around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this 
>>> particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 
>>> 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 
>>> rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? I've 
>>> poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I 
>>> haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order 
>>> (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or at 
>>> a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
>>> I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with 
>>> normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[RichS]

Bob, 

You have that right!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 9:33:12 AM UTC-4, Bob B wrote:
>
> Reading the comments on that pinkbike link SERIOUSLY reaffirmed my 
> appreciation for having this forum and community to talk about bikes.
>
> Bob B.
> Brooklyn, NY
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bob B]

Reading the comments on that pinkbike link SERIOUSLY reaffirmed my appreciation 
for having this forum and community to talk about bikes.

Bob B.
Brooklyn, NY

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Another tidbit from interbike:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/09/19/first-time-exhibitor-rivendell-showing-new-model-designed-dirt#.W6QAeC-ZP-Y



On Fri, Sep 21, 2018 at 11:01 AM Jeremy Till  wrote:

> I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers:
>
> http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> 30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been using
> the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with them, and
> I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim for Gus.
>
> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers
>> around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this
>> particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting
>> 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5
>> rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? I've
>> poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I
>> haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order
>> (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or at
>> a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
>> I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with
>> normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

The widest 650B rim brake rim I've ever seen is the DM24 on my HubbuHubbuH 
tandem.  Those are 32mm outside width and 24mm inside width with uber-thick 
sidewalls.  I would think the Cliffhanger or the DM24 would both work fine 
for 2.8" tires. 

BL


On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 11:01:55 AM UTC-7, Jeremy Till wrote:
>
> I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers: 
>
> http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584
>
> 30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been using 
> the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with them, and 
> I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim for Gus. 
>
> On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers 
>> around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this 
>> particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 
>> 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 
>> rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? I've 
>> poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I 
>> haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order 
>> (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or at 
>> a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
>> I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with 
>> normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Jeremy Till]

I'm fairly certain the sample is using 650b Velocity Cliffhangers: 

http://www.velocityusa.com/product/rims/cliffhanger-584

30mm external width, tubeless compatible, rim brake rims. I've been using 
the 700c version on my CleMTB and have been quite satisfied with them, and 
I wouldn't be surprised if these ended up being the go-to rim for Gus. 

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 9:40:03 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers 
> around what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this 
> particular model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 
> 2.8" tires on standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 
> rims I am aware of are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? I've 
> poked around enough looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I 
> haven't tripped over. So I have to assume they are made to order 
> (translation: proprietary) if so good luck finding them down the road or at 
> a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only slightly better maybe?)
> I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with 
> normal tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Paul Clifton]

BWAHAHAHAHA That didn't work. Click the link I guess.

On Friday, September 21, 2018 at 1:33:03 PM UTC-4, Paul Clifton wrote:
>
> Pinkbike put up another decent photo from Interbike:
> https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-final-randumbs-interbike-2018.html
>
> [image: Interbike 2018]
>
> On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 11:43:49 PM UTC-4, Collin A wrote:
>>
>> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
>> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>>
>>
>> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>>
>> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
>> Collin
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Paul Clifton]

Pinkbike put up another decent photo from Interbike:
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-final-randumbs-interbike-2018.html

[image: Interbike 2018]

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 11:43:49 PM UTC-4, Collin A wrote:
>
> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[masmojo]

Just to be clear my concern is Not With rim brakes; it mostly centers around 
what would have to be a wider then normal rim brake rim for this particular 
model. I am could be wrong (hopefully), but are they putting 2.8" tires on 
standard Atlas/Velocity rims? Otherwise all the wide 27.5 rims I am aware of 
are disk brake only!??  Maybe Alex makes something? I've poked around enough 
looking for 650b rims, I can't imagine there's any I haven't tripped over. So I 
have to assume they are made to order (translation: proprietary) if so good 
luck finding them down the road or at a reasonable price. (And 29ers are only 
slightly better maybe?)
I guess in the future one could forgo the super wide tires & go with normal 
tires/rims pretty easily, but . . .

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ctifusion]

"We have a good reputation and haven't screwed anyone over."

I don't think we talk enough about how rare it is for a company to be 
ethical today. 

Thanks Riv.

Brynnar
Indy


On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 10:26:06 PM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Chuck Davis found and posted this on the iBOB list:
>
>
> https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/09/19/first-time-exhibitor-rivendell-showing-new-model-designed-dirt?utm_source=Bicycle+Retailer+Newletters_campaign=df09eb9f68-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_09_18_06_20_COPY_01_medium=email_term=0_bbd0ac46d2-df09eb9f68-29057867#.W6RWOHRMHqB
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks for the photo. I sorta mocked it up with a Limp dick stem and drops 
@dirtdancedesigns on instagram. I can’t seem to figure out how to post photos 
from my I-pad direct. 

I am leaning more and more to buying one, depending on what they do with the 
nine details to be changed. 

Clayton
DirtDanceDesigns

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

Chuck Davis found and posted this on the iBOB list:

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/industry-news/2018/09/19/first-time-exhibitor-rivendell-showing-new-model-designed-dirt?utm_source=Bicycle+Retailer+Newletters_campaign=df09eb9f68-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2018_09_18_06_20_COPY_01_medium=email_term=0_bbd0ac46d2-df09eb9f68-29057867#.W6RWOHRMHqB

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

I retract that, now that I ho back and study the pictures.  Maybe they are 
cliffhangers.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

The prototype has rims that appear much wider than cliffhangers.  Presumably 
Alex manufacturer?  Surprisingly, they may have even set them up tubeless, 
judging by the oily spots by all the spoke holes.  I dont know why we wouldn't 
assume that they would make those same rims available for us buyers.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Thanks, guys. I guess they would recommend the Cliffhangers for a build? 

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:48:11 PM UTC-4, DarinM wrote:
>
> Price was mentioned in the "Sept 8, but..." Blahg posts. $1500 for frame 
> and fork only, but also $1900 for fillet brazed. He didn't specifically say 
> both would be available, maybe they're going to do one or the other? Or 
> maybe both, they got samples of both. Sounds like no stock completes a la 
> Clem.
>
> Darin
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 7:15:45 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>>
>> I can't recall if it was mentioned whether the Gus Boots would be offered 
>> as complete only or also as a frameset? And was a general pricepoint 
>> mentioned?
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[DarinM]

Price was mentioned in the "Sept 8, but..." Blahg posts. $1500 for frame 
and fork only, but also $1900 for fillet brazed. He didn't specifically say 
both would be available, maybe they're going to do one or the other? Or 
maybe both, they got samples of both. Sounds like no stock completes a la 
Clem.

Darin

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 7:15:45 PM UTC-7, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I can't recall if it was mentioned whether the Gus Boots would be offered 
> as complete only or also as a frameset? And was a general pricepoint 
> mentioned?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ash]

That's a sweet bike!

No-nonsense... work of art!


On Wednesday, 19 September 2018 17:01:11 UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> Sporty, but tasteful -- and made by Rivendell!
>
> Patrick "You've seen it before, and you'll see it again -- 99 Joe Starck 
> Riv Road custom" Moore
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Ash > 
> wrote:
>
>> ...
>> In general I'm into 'sporty' things (I'm into naked sport/enduro 
>> motorcycles, hate cruisers.. WRX any day over a Lexus etc).  However when 
>> it comes to bikes I can't stand those flashy MTBs and road bikes I see in 
>> stores.  They look ugly to me.  Full of company logos, distasteful colors 
>> and weird shapes. For most people who buy them they are not functionally 
>> well suited either.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Patrick Moore]

Another listmember had his Atlantis modified after an accident to accept
discs f and r -- best of both worlds.

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 7:20 PM, Ryan M. 
wrote:

> My prediction is simply that rim brakes won't be making a come back, not
> that they will go away completely or disappear. I do not think rim braking
> will go away, especially with regards to road riding. I'm going to keep my
> argument centered around off road riding or gravel stuff because that is
> where I prefer to ride and where I see quite a few advantages for disc
> braking. I agree, I think small makers will cater to the market for those
> who prefer rim braking. I simply don't prefer rim braking after using both.
>
> Hey, I got Velocity Blunt SS on my Niner turned to gravel duty. Those rims
> are great; can't say anything negative about them. I have had 0 issues out
> of those rims (paul disc word/fhub hubs) and predict I'll be riding that
> setup for many years problem free.
>
> But, I'm probably going to be purchasing a Gus. I like the bike and think
> that setup with something like a Jones Bar or Wavie Bar, it will be a
> really good bike for the off road stuff I like to ride. The braking system
> on it are not a deal braker (pun intended).
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:21:32 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> I say that you're prediction is wrong.
>>
>> Distinction: Rim brake market, and rim brake advantages. The market may
>> or may not survive -- I think there remains enough demand that
>> manufacturing will survive healthily, at least among small makers for the
>> aficionado crowd; I'll bet Rivendell and Compass, to name just 2, will
>> continue to make rim brakes of one sort or another.
>>
>> Advantages: Rim brakes have this advantage, that they work *unimprovably*
>> for many, if not most uses, and they are cheaper (well, count Compass out
>> on this one) (heck, count Riv out too), but they are simpler, lighter,
>> modulate better than many if not most or all mechanical discs (I can't
>> speak to hydraulic ones), allow flexible forks, and in the eyes of some, me
>> included, look better. Point: They have no disadvantages for many uses, and
>> some real advantages.
>>
>> I like discs; hell, I like the ancient BB7, at least the Road model that
>> came out circa 2015 -- there are better ones on the market, but these BB7
>> Roads work so well that I personally haven't sufficient motive to change. I
>> know Jan pooh poohs mechanical discs, but he's just plain wrong on this
>> matter. But calipers and V brakes and even cantis if someone else beside me
>> sets them up just work so well that I can't see the entire global
>> population giving them over for discs.
>>
>> I like discs for riding where conditions accelerate rim wear -- dirt
>> riding, rain riding (last hypothetical); and I like discs because they let
>> you use strong rims that are yet very light (case in point, Velocity Blount
>> SS).
>>
>> Now, if you were to assert that, say, rod or stirrup brakes would
>> disappear, I'd agree, but the Bowden cable freed us from that particular
>> tyranny.
>>
>> Patrick Moore, who spent much time and sweat and physical and mental
>> energy as a boy trying to get rod brakes to work *well.*
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Ryan M. 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in
>>> mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to
>>> use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a
>>> definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at
>>> all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with
>>> canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a
>>> deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"
>>>
>>> I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a
>>> v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to
>>> power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so
>>> freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I
>>> just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I
>>> don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my
>>> preferences, for sure.
>>>
>>> I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need
>>> for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that.
>>> Choices will be less, of course.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>>>
 I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially
 were something that could be more popular in the future. Examples:
 moustache handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8"
 tires will require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters,
 until you add rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, 
 two(?).
 Of course who knows, 

Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

$1500 frameset

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 10:15:45 PM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I can't recall if it was mentioned whether the Gus Boots would be offered 
> as complete only or also as a frameset? And was a general pricepoint 
> mentioned?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I can't recall if it was mentioned whether the Gus Boots would be offered 
as complete only or also as a frameset? And was a general pricepoint 
mentioned?

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

My prediction is simply that rim brakes won't be making a come back, not 
that they will go away completely or disappear. I do not think rim braking 
will go away, especially with regards to road riding. I'm going to keep my 
argument centered around off road riding or gravel stuff because that is 
where I prefer to ride and where I see quite a few advantages for disc 
braking. I agree, I think small makers will cater to the market for those 
who prefer rim braking. I simply don't prefer rim braking after using both. 

Hey, I got Velocity Blunt SS on my Niner turned to gravel duty. Those rims 
are great; can't say anything negative about them. I have had 0 issues out 
of those rims (paul disc word/fhub hubs) and predict I'll be riding that 
setup for many years problem free.  

But, I'm probably going to be purchasing a Gus. I like the bike and think 
that setup with something like a Jones Bar or Wavie Bar, it will be a 
really good bike for the off road stuff I like to ride. The braking system 
on it are not a deal braker (pun intended). 

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 6:21:32 PM UTC-5, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> I say that you're prediction is wrong.
>
> Distinction: Rim brake market, and rim brake advantages. The market may or 
> may not survive -- I think there remains enough demand that manufacturing 
> will survive healthily, at least among small makers for the aficionado 
> crowd; I'll bet Rivendell and Compass, to name just 2, will continue to 
> make rim brakes of one sort or another.
>
> Advantages: Rim brakes have this advantage, that they work *unimprovably* 
> for many, if not most uses, and they are cheaper (well, count Compass out 
> on this one) (heck, count Riv out too), but they are simpler, lighter, 
> modulate better than many if not most or all mechanical discs (I can't 
> speak to hydraulic ones), allow flexible forks, and in the eyes of some, me 
> included, look better. Point: They have no disadvantages for many uses, and 
> some real advantages.
>
> I like discs; hell, I like the ancient BB7, at least the Road model that 
> came out circa 2015 -- there are better ones on the market, but these BB7 
> Roads work so well that I personally haven't sufficient motive to change. I 
> know Jan pooh poohs mechanical discs, but he's just plain wrong on this 
> matter. But calipers and V brakes and even cantis if someone else beside me 
> sets them up just work so well that I can't see the entire global 
> population giving them over for discs.
>
> I like discs for riding where conditions accelerate rim wear -- dirt 
> riding, rain riding (last hypothetical); and I like discs because they let 
> you use strong rims that are yet very light (case in point, Velocity Blount 
> SS). 
>
> Now, if you were to assert that, say, rod or stirrup brakes would 
> disappear, I'd agree, but the Bowden cable freed us from that particular 
> tyranny.
>
> Patrick Moore, who spent much time and sweat and physical and mental 
> energy as a boy trying to get rod brakes to work *well.*
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Ryan M.  > wrote:
>
>> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in 
>> mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to 
>> use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a 
>> definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at 
>> all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with 
>> canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a 
>> deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"
>>
>> I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a 
>> v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to 
>> power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so 
>> freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I 
>> just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I 
>> don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my 
>> preferences, for sure. 
>>
>> I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need 
>> for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that. 
>> Choices will be less, of course.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>>
>>> I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were 
>>> something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache 
>>> handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will 
>>> require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add 
>>> rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
>>> Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
>>> Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I 
>>> presume they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent 
>>> offerings to always be 

Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Patrick Moore]

And The Mainstream seems to agree, at least, if you can take the sometimes
(not always) breathless drivel from Bike Radar as Mainstream:

https://www.bikeradar.com/us/road/gear/article/direct-mount-vs-disc-brakes-52918/

Question: Are "direct mount" (ie, arms bolt to pivots on fork legs or
stays, instead of whole schmear bolting via center bolt to a hole in crown
or bridge) calipers really better, or is the praise in this little article
just more breathless fluff? I know that Jan likes "direct mount"
centerpulls, so perhaps "direct mount" calipers have some of the same
benefits?

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I say that you're prediction is wrong.
> ...
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Ryan M. 
> wrote:
>
>> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ash]

I think this bike looks great!  The design appears to be very practical too.

In general I'm into 'sporty' things (I'm into naked sport/enduro 
motorcycles, hate cruisers.. WRX any day over a Lexus etc).  However when 
it comes to bikes I can't stand those flashy MTBs and road bikes I see in 
stores.  They look ugly to me.  Full of company logos, distasteful colors 
and weird shapes. For most people who buy them they are not functionally 
well suited either.

The hill bike is a much need new take on MTBs (I think Jones is good one 
too).  Very much looking forward to driving up to world HQ and giving it a 
spin.

Go GBW!



On Wednesday, 19 September 2018 15:18:32 UTC-7, Belopsky wrote:
>
> Nevermind, here it is.
> https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn4ndL-Bqrq/?tagged=rivbike
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Patrick Moore]

Shit!* "Your" *prediction is wrong.

Patrick "Yes, I do know the difference" Moore

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:21 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> I say that you're prediction is wrong.
>
> Distinction: Rim brake market, and rim brake advantages. The market may or
> may not survive -- I think there remains enough demand that manufacturing
> will survive healthily, at least among small makers for the aficionado
> crowd; I'll bet Rivendell and Compass, to name just 2, will continue to
> make rim brakes of one sort or another.
>
> Advantages: Rim brakes have this advantage, that they work *unimprovably*
> for many, if not most uses, and they are cheaper (well, count Compass out
> on this one) (heck, count Riv out too), but they are simpler, lighter,
> modulate better than many if not most or all mechanical discs (I can't
> speak to hydraulic ones), allow flexible forks, and in the eyes of some, me
> included, look better. Point: They have no disadvantages for many uses, and
> some real advantages.
>
> I like discs; hell, I like the ancient BB7, at least the Road model that
> came out circa 2015 -- there are better ones on the market, but these BB7
> Roads work so well that I personally haven't sufficient motive to change. I
> know Jan pooh poohs mechanical discs, but he's just plain wrong on this
> matter. But calipers and V brakes and even cantis if someone else beside me
> sets them up just work so well that I can't see the entire global
> population giving them over for discs.
>
> I like discs for riding where conditions accelerate rim wear -- dirt
> riding, rain riding (last hypothetical); and I like discs because they let
> you use strong rims that are yet very light (case in point, Velocity Blount
> SS).
>
> Now, if you were to assert that, say, rod or stirrup brakes would
> disappear, I'd agree, but the Bowden cable freed us from that particular
> tyranny.
>
> Patrick Moore, who spent much time and sweat and physical and mental
> energy as a boy trying to get rod brakes to work *well.*
>
> On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Ryan M. 
> wrote:
>
>> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in
>> mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to
>> use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a
>> definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at
>> all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with
>> canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a
>> deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"
>>
>> I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a
>> v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to
>> power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so
>> freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I
>> just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I
>> don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my
>> preferences, for sure.
>>
>> I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need
>> for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that.
>> Choices will be less, of course.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>>
>>> I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were
>>> something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache
>>> handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will
>>> require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add
>>> rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
>>> Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
>>> Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I
>>> presume they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent
>>> offerings to always be available, but who knows?
>>
>> --
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>
>
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Patrick Moore]

I say that you're prediction is wrong.

Distinction: Rim brake market, and rim brake advantages. The market may or
may not survive -- I think there remains enough demand that manufacturing
will survive healthily, at least among small makers for the aficionado
crowd; I'll bet Rivendell and Compass, to name just 2, will continue to
make rim brakes of one sort or another.

Advantages: Rim brakes have this advantage, that they work *unimprovably*
for many, if not most uses, and they are cheaper (well, count Compass out
on this one) (heck, count Riv out too), but they are simpler, lighter,
modulate better than many if not most or all mechanical discs (I can't
speak to hydraulic ones), allow flexible forks, and in the eyes of some, me
included, look better. Point: They have no disadvantages for many uses, and
some real advantages.

I like discs; hell, I like the ancient BB7, at least the Road model that
came out circa 2015 -- there are better ones on the market, but these BB7
Roads work so well that I personally haven't sufficient motive to change. I
know Jan pooh poohs mechanical discs, but he's just plain wrong on this
matter. But calipers and V brakes and even cantis if someone else beside me
sets them up just work so well that I can't see the entire global
population giving them over for discs.

I like discs for riding where conditions accelerate rim wear -- dirt
riding, rain riding (last hypothetical); and I like discs because they let
you use strong rims that are yet very light (case in point, Velocity Blount
SS).

Now, if you were to assert that, say, rod or stirrup brakes would
disappear, I'd agree, but the Bowden cable freed us from that particular
tyranny.

Patrick Moore, who spent much time and sweat and physical and mental energy
as a boy trying to get rod brakes to work *well.*

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 11:08 AM, Ryan M. 
wrote:

> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in
> mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to
> use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a
> definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at
> all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with
> canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a
> deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"
>
> I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a
> v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to
> power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so
> freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I
> just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I
> don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my
> preferences, for sure.
>
> I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need
> for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that.
> Choices will be less, of course.
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
>> I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were
>> something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache
>> handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will
>> require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add
>> rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
>> Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
>> Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I
>> presume they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent
>> offerings to always be available, but who knows?
>
> --
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**
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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

It really has a "Dutch Bike" vibe, doesn't it?

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

Nevermind, here it is.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bn4ndL-Bqrq/?tagged=rivbike

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

There was a great photo of it on instagram somewhere but I can't find it. 
That is all.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 12:26:30 PM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
> Joe wrote: "the fastest bike in the world was built to go not stop."
> 
> So were all the ones that I have!

We need one of those little "thumbs up" voting buttons on this forum.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ctifusion]

I agree that the bike looks much cooler from that angle.

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 6:03:45 PM UTC-4, tc wrote:
>
> The rear quarter Instagram pic of Gus at interbike, with his big ol’ fat 
> tars, presents him so much better than the blahg pics. I think.  Something 
> about seeing him from that angle helps me imagine the his true structure. 
> Gus is definitely growing on me! 
>
> Tom

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Joe wrote: "the fastest bike in the world was built to go not stop."

So were all the ones that I have!

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

Well to be fair, the fastest bicycle in the world was built to go, not stop. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[lconley]

The fastest bicycle in the world (184 mph) has a rim brake. No disc. 

Laing 
Cocoa FL


On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 1:08:52 PM UTC-4, Ryan M. wrote:

> My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in 
> mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to 
> use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a 
> definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at 
> all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with 
> canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a 
> deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"
>
> I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a 
> v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to 
> power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so 
> freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I 
> just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I 
> don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my 
> preferences, for sure. 
>
> I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need 
> for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that. 
> Choices will be less, of course.
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:
>
>> I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were 
>> something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache 
>> handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will 
>> require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add 
>> rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
>> Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
>> Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I 
>> presume they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent 
>> offerings to always be available, but who knows?
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

My prediction...rim brakes are not going to make a comeback...not in 
mountain biking (or "hillbiking"). There just isn't any real good reason to 
use a rim brake over a modern disc brake today given that there is a 
definite performance advantage and a huge supply of products available at 
all price points and most work very well. I mean, I'll buy a bike with 
canti posts and ride it happily, but it is not my preference. It's not a 
deal breaker but I don't see canti posts and think "so awesome!"

I have always thought mechanical disc brakes worked about the same as a 
v-brake (hydros being a different conversation) with regards to 
power, modulation and setup until I used a Paul Klamper. That brake is so 
freaking easy to set up; it's powerful; it feels really good in use and I 
just don't know why I haven't been using it on every bike I can. Anyway, I 
don't want to turn this thread into a canti-vs-disc argument. I got my 
preferences, for sure. 

I'm sure someone will make a rim compatible with this bike and it's need 
for a rim braking surface for a long time; I wouldn't worry about that. 
Choices will be less, of course.

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:13:31 AM UTC-5, masmojo wrote:

> I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were 
> something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache 
> handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will 
> require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add 
> rim braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
> Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
> Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I 
> presume they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent 
> offerings to always be available, but who knows?

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

I think Grant went into this knowing he was bucking the trend of disc brakes 
for wide tires. I wouldn't worry too much about the rim situation now, and I 
never worry about bike parts 10 years from now. There's always somebody on the 
internet selling what you need somewhere, and this assumes you'll actually keep 
the bike 10 years. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[masmojo]

I personally wouldn't worry much about the rims if they potentially were 
something that could be more popular in the future. Examples: moustache 
handlebars, normal width 650B rims, etc., but I am guessing 2.8" tires will 
require a wider rim be made. Plenty of them in all diameters, until you add rim 
braking capability and then it drops to none, one, two(?).
Of course who knows, rim brakes might make a comeback!?
Even when it comes to regular 650b rim brake rims pickings are slim; I presume 
they are prolific enough between retro bikes & modern recent offerings to 
always be available, but who knows?

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[tc]

Agree, mark. Specs help me place a bike amongst those similar to it (or to its 
purpose) if I don’t yet have the luxury of riding it.

I generally like to play with numbers anyway...

Tom

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm the opposite extreme--I rarely if ever pay much attention to specs. I 
bought my Clementine based on what the designer told me about what it was 
designed for; same with buying my Jones. I like both bikes a lot. I've 
ridden both on rocky, rooty uphills. Both did as well as could be expected 
considering the pilot--I am no Jeff Jones! I think it fair to say both 
bikes perform more or less as the designers had promised, give or take a 
bit of hyperbole (Rivs tend to be relatively modest in regards to claims). 
My experience with bicycles over the years has been:

1. Guys that have been thinking about and designing bikes for a long time 
usually create an eminently rideable bicycle. 
2. Most human bodies can handle quite a bit of variation and still get good 
results--ie, have fun!
3. There is no magic bicycle, just the magic of riding bicycles!

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:32:32 PM UTC-4, tc wrote:
>
> Ian, your post was a good reminder for me to re-view this Jones plus video 
> , the first 4 min of which 
> includes the explanation of exactly what you referenced ... how long 
> wheelbase doesn't have to mean long chainstays, and how Jeff designed the 
> bike to work well for both descending and climbing, but always balanced 
> over the legs, sitting and standing.  Some stat's of the plus, which begins 
> around 1:47 in the video:
>
> HT angle: 67.5 deg
> ST angle: 71 deg
> Offset: 7.6cm
> Chainstay: 19"/48.26cm
>
> I couldn't find wheelbase stat's on the Jones site, but Dirt Rag's review 
> states the LWB's wb is 47.4" / 120.4cm.
>
> I'm looking fwd to learning Gus's spec's.
>
> Tom
>
> On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 11:48:25 AM UTC-4, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I had imagined the possibility of a Riv off-roader replacing my current 
>> Clem, as riding off road is 95% of my riding now, but this bike repeats the 
>> same design flaw as the Clem. Jones Bikes prove that you can have a huge 
>> wheelbase for an awesomely stable ride on a Mtn bike, but it shouldn't come 
>> from long chainstays. Putting the back wheel so far behind the rider's mass 
>> increases the difficulty in raising the front end, especially while riding 
>> uphill. While that may seem superfluous for perfectly manicured California 
>> trails, it's a necessity for riding off road in other places. Unless that 
>> seat tube is far slacker than the Clem's I think it would be a bear to 
>> handle on a rocky, rooty uphill. I am jealous of that pump peg tho
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[tc]

Ian, your post was a good reminder for me to re-view this Jones plus video 
, the first 4 min of which 
includes the explanation of exactly what you referenced ... how long 
wheelbase doesn't have to mean long chainstays, and how Jeff designed the 
bike to work well for both descending and climbing, but always balanced 
over the legs, sitting and standing.  Some stat's of the plus, which begins 
around 1:47 in the video:

HT angle: 67.5 deg
ST angle: 71 deg
Offset: 7.6cm
Chainstay: 19"/48.26cm

I couldn't find wheelbase stat's on the Jones site, but Dirt Rag's review 
states the LWB's wb is 47.4" / 120.4cm.

I'm looking fwd to learning Gus's spec's.

Tom

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 11:48:25 AM UTC-4, ian m wrote:
>
> I had imagined the possibility of a Riv off-roader replacing my current 
> Clem, as riding off road is 95% of my riding now, but this bike repeats the 
> same design flaw as the Clem. Jones Bikes prove that you can have a huge 
> wheelbase for an awesomely stable ride on a Mtn bike, but it shouldn't come 
> from long chainstays. Putting the back wheel so far behind the rider's mass 
> increases the difficulty in raising the front end, especially while riding 
> uphill. While that may seem superfluous for perfectly manicured California 
> trails, it's a necessity for riding off road in other places. Unless that 
> seat tube is far slacker than the Clem's I think it would be a bear to 
> handle on a rocky, rooty uphill. I am jealous of that pump peg tho
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ben Miller]

Huh, I couldn't read the tire info on the Blahg bike, but yeah, those 
definitely look like 650b. Fake news?

Harry definitely said 3 inch tires though! 

Also, I have a rigid 650b-plus 3" bike and it is a lot of fun. Like, just 
plain fun. Riding it is like being reminded of how fun it was to ride a BMX 
bike as a kid. I think of it less as a MTB and more of a 
go-out-of-my-way-to-just-roll-over-everything bike.

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 4:05:31 PM UTC-7, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Thank you - good to hear confirmation/hope.  The blahg bike looks pretty 
> clear to be 650b.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

Thank you - good to hear confirmation/hope.  The blahg bike looks pretty clear 
to be 650b.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ben Miller]

I see a lot of discussion about 650b and 2.8" tires. For whatever it is worth, 
when I went to Rivendell and was holding the fork I was told it was designed 
for 700c and a 3" tire. (Though I'd bet smaller frames would be 650b)

Ben

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[tc]

The rear quarter Instagram pic of Gus at interbike, with his big ol’ fat tars, 
presents him so much better than the blahg pics. I think.  Something about 
seeing him from that angle helps me imagine the his true structure. Gus is 
definitely growing on me!

Tom

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Steve Palincsar]

On 09/18/2018 03:55 PM, Bill Lindsay wrote:

masmojo responded to me (I'm almost certain). Masmojo asked two questions:

1.  "I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then?" 20 years 
until you give up cycling?  After that, enjoy walking, or reading.  
20years of life?  After that, peacefully enjoy the afterlife
2.  "what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their 
sort of lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people?"  If 
those theoretical people buy a 584mm rim Rivendell, and 10 years down 
the road need a new rim, and at that time 584mm rim brake rims are not 
readily available, then I imagine those people would reach out to 
Rivendell for help in sourcing a rim.  Rivendell has convinced rim 
manufacturers to manufacture rims on numerous occasions, and I imagine 
they will continue to do so.  If your actual worry is that rim 
manufacturers will discard the capability to extrude rim brake rims 
entirely, then that's going to be a problem for all rim-brake bikes, 
not just 584s. If your actual worry is that Rivendell Bicycle Works 
will be out of business in 10 years, and that will leave the 
hypothetical non-bike people helpless, then I don't really have a way 
to calm your worries.


Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA




Rivendell isn't the only small supplier with a vested interest in 650B.  
Compass and Grand Bois are also players, and both sell rims.   Compass 
brought back the Rene Herse crank and cantilever brake and the Mafac 
Raid brake from the dead, and getting those things back into production 
is, I'm sure, a more complex task than getting rim-brake rims made in 
584 bsd.  And it's worth noting too that you can still buy both rims and 
tires in 630 bsd 27 x 1 1/4" size, and nobody's manufactured a bike in 
that size in at least 30 years.


It's easy to fall prey to fears of obsolescence, but the only sure cure 
is to give up entirely, because anything you buy today is subject to the 
same sky-is-falling fear.  130mm rear triangles -- my God, what is 
Boost, and even that's now being made obsolete by SuperBoost.  11 speed, 
now made pase by 12.  Not long ago, people said you'd have to be crazy 
to go for 650B, 559 is the safe choice and the only plump tire size you 
really need, and now look what's happened to 559.   Cable operated disk 
brake?  It's all going hydro even as we speak.  Five years ago, everyone 
was saying cable operated shifting was doomed.  And just the other month 
I saw an article that said 700x23C was becoming an obsolete size.


When I was in elementary school, we had Duck & Cover training in case of 
a nuclear attack.  You' were suuposed to face away from the classroom 
windows and get under the seat of your classroom desk and assume "the 
position."  Underneath my seat was inscribed a parody of the 
instructions: /Drop Flat On Ground Or Floor, Bury Your Face In Your 
Arms, *Put your head between your knees*/ /*and Kiss your ass 
goodbye.*///So yes, you could do that; or you could just ride your bike 
and not worry about the 650B and Rim Brake Armageddons.  Hell, you can 
even buy brand new silver components and steel frames made in old 
standard diameter with threaded headsets and quill stems if you like.


--
Steve Palincsar
Alexandria, Virginia
USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

i just saw Riv's instagram post of Will and Grant at the bike show and the 
new bike is in the background and from that angle, it looks bada$$.  


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 4:15:02 PM UTC-5, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:
>
> I'm almost certain that a few months before he announced the MTB, he 
> mentioned a new rim in development.  
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:57:35 PM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>>
>> I wonder if Riv intends to support running something like a Cliffhanger 
>> rim tubeless or if they plan on working with a manufacturer to make a 650b 
>> non-disc rim appropriately wide for a plus sized mountain bike tire (or 
>> both??). Running a 2.8" tire at low pressure on a 25mm internal width rim 
>> with tube...more like Just Flats
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:55:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>>
>>> masmojo responded to me (I'm almost certain). Masmojo asked two 
>>> questions:
>>>
>>> 1.  "I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then?"  20 years until 
>>> you give up cycling?  After that, enjoy walking, or reading.  20years of 
>>> life?  After that, peacefully enjoy the afterlife
>>> 2.  "what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their 
>>> sort of lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people?"  If those 
>>> theoretical people buy a 584mm rim Rivendell, and 10 years down the road 
>>> need a new rim, and at that time 584mm rim brake rims are not readily 
>>> available, then I imagine those people would reach out to Rivendell for 
>>> help in sourcing a rim.  Rivendell has convinced rim manufacturers to 
>>> manufacture rims on numerous occasions, and I imagine they will continue to 
>>> do so.  If your actual worry is that rim manufacturers will discard the 
>>> capability to extrude rim brake rims entirely, then that's going to be a 
>>> problem for all rim-brake bikes, not just 584s. If your actual worry is 
>>> that Rivendell Bicycle Works will be out of business in 10 years, and that 
>>> will leave the hypothetical non-bike people helpless, then I don't really 
>>> have a way to calm your worries.  
>>>
>>> Bill Lindsay
>>> El Cerrito, CA
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:57:49 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

 The "worry" isn't for me so much; I am a "Bikie" & I would anticipate 
 such an issue, but I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then? OR, 
 what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort of 
 lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people? They won't even 
 think 
 to buy "extra" rims, most people won't realize what an oddity a super wide 
 rim brake rim is until it comes time to replace it.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Chris Lampe 2' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I'm almost certain that a few months before he announced the MTB, he 
mentioned a new rim in development.  


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:57:35 PM UTC-5, ian m wrote:
>
> I wonder if Riv intends to support running something like a Cliffhanger 
> rim tubeless or if they plan on working with a manufacturer to make a 650b 
> non-disc rim appropriately wide for a plus sized mountain bike tire (or 
> both??). Running a 2.8" tire at low pressure on a 25mm internal width rim 
> with tube...more like Just Flats
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:55:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>>
>> masmojo responded to me (I'm almost certain). Masmojo asked two questions:
>>
>> 1.  "I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then?"  20 years until 
>> you give up cycling?  After that, enjoy walking, or reading.  20years of 
>> life?  After that, peacefully enjoy the afterlife
>> 2.  "what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their 
>> sort of lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people?"  If those 
>> theoretical people buy a 584mm rim Rivendell, and 10 years down the road 
>> need a new rim, and at that time 584mm rim brake rims are not readily 
>> available, then I imagine those people would reach out to Rivendell for 
>> help in sourcing a rim.  Rivendell has convinced rim manufacturers to 
>> manufacture rims on numerous occasions, and I imagine they will continue to 
>> do so.  If your actual worry is that rim manufacturers will discard the 
>> capability to extrude rim brake rims entirely, then that's going to be a 
>> problem for all rim-brake bikes, not just 584s. If your actual worry is 
>> that Rivendell Bicycle Works will be out of business in 10 years, and that 
>> will leave the hypothetical non-bike people helpless, then I don't really 
>> have a way to calm your worries.  
>>
>> Bill Lindsay
>> El Cerrito, CA
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:57:49 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>>
>>> The "worry" isn't for me so much; I am a "Bikie" & I would anticipate 
>>> such an issue, but I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then? OR, 
>>> what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort of 
>>> lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people? They won't even think 
>>> to buy "extra" rims, most people won't realize what an oddity a super wide 
>>> rim brake rim is until it comes time to replace it.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ian m]

I wonder if Riv intends to support running something like a Cliffhanger rim 
tubeless or if they plan on working with a manufacturer to make a 650b 
non-disc rim appropriately wide for a plus sized mountain bike tire (or 
both??). Running a 2.8" tire at low pressure on a 25mm internal width rim 
with tube...more like Just Flats

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 3:55:06 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> masmojo responded to me (I'm almost certain). Masmojo asked two questions:
>
> 1.  "I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then?"  20 years until 
> you give up cycling?  After that, enjoy walking, or reading.  20years of 
> life?  After that, peacefully enjoy the afterlife
> 2.  "what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their 
> sort of lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people?"  If those 
> theoretical people buy a 584mm rim Rivendell, and 10 years down the road 
> need a new rim, and at that time 584mm rim brake rims are not readily 
> available, then I imagine those people would reach out to Rivendell for 
> help in sourcing a rim.  Rivendell has convinced rim manufacturers to 
> manufacture rims on numerous occasions, and I imagine they will continue to 
> do so.  If your actual worry is that rim manufacturers will discard the 
> capability to extrude rim brake rims entirely, then that's going to be a 
> problem for all rim-brake bikes, not just 584s. If your actual worry is 
> that Rivendell Bicycle Works will be out of business in 10 years, and that 
> will leave the hypothetical non-bike people helpless, then I don't really 
> have a way to calm your worries.  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito, CA
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:57:49 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>>
>> The "worry" isn't for me so much; I am a "Bikie" & I would anticipate 
>> such an issue, but I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then? OR, 
>> what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort of 
>> lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people? They won't even think 
>> to buy "extra" rims, most people won't realize what an oddity a super wide 
>> rim brake rim is until it comes time to replace it.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[lconley]

I still have bikes with 27" rims and tires and French bottom brackets and 
French headsets - these haven't been put on new bikes for almost 40 years. 
I can still buy them NOS or new. It is easier now than it was 20 years ago 
thanks to the internet, E-Bay, etc. I can even get 27x1-3/8 tires now, 
which were unknown in the early seventies.

Not worried about obsolescence.

Laing
Cocoa FL

>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

masmojo responded to me (I'm almost certain). Masmojo asked two questions:

1.  "I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then?"  20 years until 
you give up cycling?  After that, enjoy walking, or reading.  20years of 
life?  After that, peacefully enjoy the afterlife
2.  "what about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort 
of lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people?"  If those 
theoretical people buy a 584mm rim Rivendell, and 10 years down the road 
need a new rim, and at that time 584mm rim brake rims are not readily 
available, then I imagine those people would reach out to Rivendell for 
help in sourcing a rim.  Rivendell has convinced rim manufacturers to 
manufacture rims on numerous occasions, and I imagine they will continue to 
do so.  If your actual worry is that rim manufacturers will discard the 
capability to extrude rim brake rims entirely, then that's going to be a 
problem for all rim-brake bikes, not just 584s. If your actual worry is 
that Rivendell Bicycle Works will be out of business in 10 years, and that 
will leave the hypothetical non-bike people helpless, then I don't really 
have a way to calm your worries.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 9:57:49 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> The "worry" isn't for me so much; I am a "Bikie" & I would anticipate such 
> an issue, but I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then? OR, what 
> about the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort of 
> lifestyle status & at their core are not bike people? They won't even think 
> to buy "extra" rims, most people won't realize what an oddity a super wide 
> rim brake rim is until it comes time to replace it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Max S]

Bill nailed it! 

- Max "about to make yet another if-I-had-to-have-just-one-bike purchase" 
in A2 


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 12:37:58 PM UTC-4, Bill Lindsay wrote:
>
> Give me the worst case scenario for this worry.  If you buy a Gus Boots 
> Willsen today and are sincerely worried about specific components, you 
> should buy a couple extra of those specific components.  What are they?  
> The only ones I can envision are wide enough rim brake rims in 584.  Buy 
> three extra rims if you are really that worried.  Have you ever had to 
> discard a bike because you could no longer buy a critical part for it?  
> There are certainly components that have become obsolete, but none of them 
> have resulted in throwing away a frame.  Least of all Rivendell Bicycle 
> Works has never made a frameset that is now obsolete due to their inability 
> to source parts.  You are free to worry over whatever you want to worry 
> over, obviously, but I think this particular worry is manageable, unless 
> your worry about components is code for "I don't want to buy that 
> bicycle".  
>
> Bill Lindsay
> El Cerrito CA
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 8:53:27 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
>> When I was in Walnut Creek, I spoke to Will & he was pretty excited about 
>> it. Honestly, I  was expecting something along the lines of a Surly Ogre 
>> with rim brakes (& longer chain stays). I too worry about components; not 
>> now, but 10 years from now.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ctifusion]

My turn to chime in. I just couldn't go out in the mid-September humidity 
and ride this afternoon so I'll write here instead. I will first say that 
yesterday when my 8 year old saw it he said "WOW, cool!!!" 

I also think it's very cool, and if I hadn't just got a new Atlantis this 
year it would be something to consider for a burly commuter and occasional 
off-roader. I'm in Indianapolis and there are very few hills here, but 
nevertheless I've built and ridden many similar-style vintage MTBs from the 
80s as light trail bikes, touring bikes, commuters, etc. And I've built 
three for friends just in the last two years and got them riding bikes 
again. So I totally agree that there is a reason to build a sturdy MTB-like 
bike for the 90% of us who ride mellow off road (or in areas of the country 
without major trails) and might also just like the sturdy cruiser style. 
This could be a killer commuter.

I'm not in the market for this bike right now mostly for budget reasons (I 
have six working bikes, none of which I want to part with) but also because 
I recently built something sorta similar to use when I do make it to 
trails. I have a 2016/17? Raleigh Pardner that I got off the ibob list last 
year. It's a simple, steel framed, 4-inch fat bike with low-level Shimano. 
I solved the low head tube problem with a surly fork (uncut) and some riser 
bars. It doesn't have the long chain stays, but it does have a slack 
geometry and a long wheelbase relative to its size. Not the same bike at 
all, but another simple bike with big tires that can handle everything my 
47 year old body can do. The only problem I have with this bike is keeping 
the disc brakes working and not constantly dragging the pads! The Boots 
would be a much smoother and cooler version I'm sure. I just saying that I 
totally understand the concept and I think that, in a very Grant/Riv way, 
lots of other riders will dig this concept too if they gave it a shot.

I understand the worry about parts (and I've had to work a bit to build the 
rim brake bikes I own lately), but other than rims, I can't imagine 
anything is a real worry. And there are plenty of 650b touring bikes out 
there that will need sturdy rims in the future, rims that will work well 
with this bike. I put 5, 10, and 30 year old parts on my new Atlantis this 
summer along with a new 1x10 setup. So much fun to mix and match.

Lastly, I'd also like to point out that Grant's post and pics are crazy in 
today's modern marketing and Insta environment. That particular bike is 
huge and the set up is just plain ugly, especially the black bits and bars 
(obviously needs a Bull Moose or the new wavie?). No other company would 
ever allow a new bike to be released this way, especially one this 
innovative and experimental. I personally love Riv for this, but if it was 
carefully built with all the coolest stuff and posed and shot by a pro (no 
offense to the photographers at Riv!) I think there would be less 
hand-ringing over it's aesthetics. Just saying.

Ride on!
Brynnar

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 8:12:43 AM UTC-6, tc wrote:
> The more I stare at this particular huge-framed version of Will’s, the more 
> I’m convinced that Gus here is the result of a sneaky late-night union 
> between young Brompton Willsen and his girlfriend Clementine Boots... 
> 
> Tom...who’s still staring

I'm still staring too - but I think I'm digesting or projecting  or mentally 
filling in the blanks differently than most.  Not that I'm right, but I don't 
think this one is the "big" frame because Grant said that at least one size 
would have 29er wheels.  I think this one may have been set up for Will - 
despite being too small - simply in order to test the adaptability of the 
design. Or maybe to illustrate the baggabond sack.  Or, maybe, to make as many 
waves as possible at interbike.  (Oh, to be a fly on the wall tomorrow!)

 I just assumed that most actual rider setups would be on more appropriately 
proportioned frames and thus wouldn't seem quite so jarring in their use of 
stem/bar/seatpost extensions. 

So I've been sliding the image to the top of my browser window and cutting the 
picture off at the top of the headtube - and it totally changes the feel.   Try 
it!  A fist-full of post max, no stem shims, and a low-rise, non-swept-back bar 
would completly change the character and make it look really aggressive, 
actually.

I am resisting the urge to use photoshop to plug 29+ wheels in there, or to 
rotate the curved top tube clockwise, until I see the other frame sizes and 
some dimensions.  But I bet SOME of the wheel-size / frame-size combinations 
yield some real off-pavement brawlers.  That said and one again, this one sure 
does look like it could be built around the bigger, (subjectively) better 
wheels without any compromises.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[masmojo]

The "worry" isn't for me so much; I am a "Bikie" & I would anticipate such an 
issue, but I maybe have 20 more years in me (max), what then? OR, what about 
the scores of people who buy Rivendells based on their sort of lifestyle status 
& at their core are not bike people? They won't even think to buy "extra" rims, 
most people won't realize what an oddity a super wide rim brake rim is until it 
comes time to replace it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

Give me the worst case scenario for this worry.  If you buy a Gus Boots 
Willsen today and are sincerely worried about specific components, you 
should buy a couple extra of those specific components.  What are they?  
The only ones I can envision are wide enough rim brake rims in 584.  Buy 
three extra rims if you are really that worried.  Have you ever had to 
discard a bike because you could no longer buy a critical part for it?  
There are certainly components that have become obsolete, but none of them 
have resulted in throwing away a frame.  Least of all Rivendell Bicycle 
Works has never made a frameset that is now obsolete due to their inability 
to source parts.  You are free to worry over whatever you want to worry 
over, obviously, but I think this particular worry is manageable, unless 
your worry about components is code for "I don't want to buy that 
bicycle".  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito CA


On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 8:53:27 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:

> When I was in Walnut Creek, I spoke to Will & he was pretty excited about 
> it. Honestly, I  was expecting something along the lines of a Surly Ogre 
> with rim brakes (& longer chain stays). I too worry about components; not 
> now, but 10 years from now.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

A Riv can still be ridden quick, and of course can be built many different ways 
to capitalize on efficiency; the owner doesn’t have to build the bike as a 
cruiser.

I do understand your point though. I have to put some thought into this new 
one, as I was hoping for a Rivendell to ride on my local mountain bike trails 
which I frequent. I’m not sure if this will work for me though as our trails 
have short but steep ups and downs and twist their way through the woods rather 
than flow. Details of the final design and a peek at the geometry will help the 
decision. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[masmojo]

When I was in Walnut Creek, I spoke to Will & he was pretty excited about it. 
Honestly, I  was expecting something along the lines of a Surly Ogre with rim 
brakes (& longer chain stays). I too worry about components; not now, but 10 
years from now.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Kiley Demond]

Moi aussi. If there is one thing I have developed in the second half of my 
century (serendipitous pun), it is that I am not in a hurry. Oh, wait, no, 
it's that I no longer care that I'm not fast, and therefore not in 
hurry ;-). 

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 7:09:02 AM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I guess the direction Riv has taken works for me because Grant and I both 
> seem to favor "go for a ride" rides as opposed to "I gotta hit 20/40/60 
> miles today" rides, and we live in the same hilly and mostly dry area. It's 
> certainly fine to not be into a particular style of bike - maybe the look 
> and colors don't work for you - I just think a current Riv rider would be 
> hard-pressed to dislike the ride if they actually rode one. 
>
> Tangent from the current Blahg: That ebike video was weird. "We don't read 
> books" ? 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Jeremy Till]

Just to provide a counterpoint: I think that the technical climbing 
technique you describe isn't for everyone, and I think that that's the 
market Grant's "Hill" bikes are going for.  I rode a standard hardtail 
mountain bike before building up my Clem and found climbing on it 
challenging.  If you like your handlebars relatively high, as is the 
Rivendell trademark, then to get low over the top tube you have to deeply 
bend your arms, which quickly becomes uncomfortable when you're also 
pulling on them for power.  Your torso/hip angle may also be more acute 
than is comfortable for you, and it's difficult to look up the trail to 
anticipate obstacles and choose the best line.  

Taking my preferred fit into consideration (read: high handlebars), my Clem 
is the best technical climbing bike I've ever owned.  I can easily clean 
climbs on it that I found challenging on more standard mountain bikes.  I 
can sit more upright while climbing, my back and arms are more relaxed 
(read: less wasted energy), and I can see up the trail to find the right 
line. I will admit that if I get out of the saddle and lean too far forward 
while climbing, I can get the rear 2.2" tire to lose traction. But in the 
saddle or hovering over it, it's rock solid, and I prefer in the saddle 
climbing anyways, as long as I have a low enough gear.  We'll see how the 
plus tires on the Gus change the traction equation.  

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 8:48:15 AM UTC-7, masmojo wrote:
>
> I can't say as I hate it!? It seems like a sort of evolution of the Clem 
> to me, but I can't say I  would trade my Clementine for one. I would prefer 
> it over my Clementine, it solves the water bottle problem & I like the 
> larger, threadless steerer; I'll be interested to see how the fork handles 
> those meaty wheels/tires.
> Regarding climbing; I see a lot of mention of it here & I thought maybe I 
> could demystify it for folks.
> Good offroad climbing technique trumps most bike design considerations. On 
> a hill where you fear losing traction. Get you upper body forward as much 
> as possible, low over the handlebars. This prevents the "wheelies". Stay 
> seated, then when it gets steep, while maintaining your body position PULL 
> on the handlebars. This effectively uses your body position as a lever 
> which pushes the back tire into the ground & prevents the dreaded back tire 
> "spin" & loss of traction. 
> My Surly Ogre has an impossibly short rear triangle, but I can climb some 
> pretty steep stuff using this technique. No problem. My main issue is 
> running out of juice.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

Again, I question that you've actually ridden any of these bikes you call 
cruisers...

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Call Me Jay' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Not trying to be a troll but I share this sentiment and wanted to offer 
feedback as the owner of three “racier” models (Custom Road, Waterford built 
AHH and a Legolas).  I’m glad others are psyched and hope these sell well.  But 
I just don’t get it... Rivendell laid the groundwork for the mixed surface/bike 
camping thing that’s so big right now but they’re apparently walking away from 
it in favor of cruisers.  

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Are you saying Genghis wasn't PC? One of the most engaging histories I've 
read in the last 10 years is "The Empire of the Steppes: A History of 
Central Asia", by Rene Grousset, featuring the fearsome trio of Atilla, the 
aforementioned Mr. Khan, and Tamberlain. What a story, and well-told. In 
fact, there's a trio of Hill Bike models:   Attilla Attacker, Genghiz 
Gravel Grinder, and Tamberlain Terrain Tamer. Go Team! (I wonder who will 
be around to write the peaceful tale of a benevolent, humble culture,  "The 
Empire of The United States: A History of")

On Tuesday, September 18, 2018 at 1:42:22 AM UTC-4, Philip Williamson wrote:
>
> You have a bow, and murder Persians. And impregnate half the world. 
> #mongolianstyle #genghisbike
>
> Philip
> Santa Rosa, CA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Philip Williamson]

You have a bow, and murder Persians. And impregnate half the world. 
#mongolianstyle #genghisbike

Philip
Santa Rosa, CA

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[M Talley]

I just mentioned the very rim that this bike needs in a post over at the 
650b group. The nature of that lament was the inability to get many rim 
brake 650b rims out of the supply source I checked. I looked no farther 
than QBP but even they don't sell the Alex rim that is stock on the Surly 
Pack Rat (650b rim brake model) I know that could change but a quick look 
shows a lot of rims for the class of bike Grant is outing as the leading 
trend style of bike - so disc only. The interesting rim that is on a stock 
bike and would suit the Hill bike is on the Specialize Roll. It is 30mm 
wide and has machined brake tracks. I wondered where one would get one if a 
wheel repair was needed. Grant may have ideas for sourcing solutions for 
some of these issues outed in this thread. It's the brakes that have me 
wondering.

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 1:26:53 PM UTC-4, Kevin Mulcahy wrote:
>
> To me it looks like the top tube is too short if it’s designed around 
> swept back bars, which means you’re going to get handcuffed when riding 
> around switchback. 
>
> How many rims out there that are suited for plus sized tires, tubeless 
> compatible, and available for rim brake action? Slim pickens, no doubt. 
> Especially for the silver lovers. Any rim brake options in 29+? 
>
> I was hoping for more of a “high performance” all-rounder rigid mtb, like 
> a rethought MB-1 designed around some more progressive or modern examples 
> of mtb geometry. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Those are nice but they cover up to a 2.5" tire. The Gus takes a 2.8 max 
(with fender? seems that way as they talk about wiggle room at that width.) 
and the Jones Complete has a 3" tire.

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 9:04:36 AM UTC-4, iamkeith wrote:
>
> On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 4:36:09 AM UTC-6, Mark in Beacon wrote:
> >Wonder what fenders would fit over the 2.8 x 27.5?
>
> https://www.sks-germany.com/en/products/bluemels-75-u/
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't know that with V-brakes, a la Clemlos,  it is that much cleaner, 
it's just that you don't need the relay pulley; same bends, though. And 
there really is no other routing that I'm aware of--most "women's" mt bike 
frames from the 80s-90s came with this setup. It is the bane of 
step-through (or in this case "hi-swoop") top tubes. At least with mixtes, 
you can often avoid the dreaded "brake housing facing upward" routing by 
splitting off around the seat tube. I guess they could do the old  
chainstay mount u-brakeeveryone would love that! Clean look, but dirty 
brakes.

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 12:18:04 PM UTC-4, CMR wrote:
>
> It's similar brake routing as a Clem L isn't it? If you use v-brakes it'll 
> be much cleaner, this is just an issue with cantilevers.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Belopsky]

I have HS33R on my Gunnar. They stop well.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

And you could run hydros with the super awesome full housing routing. 

I really like the curved top tube. 

I just showed my wife this bike...she wants one. Lol

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Bill Lindsay]

I'd ride that bad-boy.  I bet it's fun.  

I might conisder limiting my rear tire to <2.5" and running a Magura HS33 
hydraulic rim brake, to allay the handwringing over cable routing.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 8:43:49 PM UTC-7, Collin A wrote:
>
> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Kevin Mulcahy]

Sure, I'm making an assumption that the bike would be designed around the 
handlebars and stems that they currently sell.  

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 1:21:54 PM UTC-5, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> I've heard nothing about the frame being designed around sweptback bars, 
> nor do we know the ETT unless somebody there measured it and told someone. 
> I expect a lot of these bikes to show up with flattish 31.8 mtb bars or 
> Jones Loops. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

I've heard nothing about the frame being designed around sweptback bars, nor do 
we know the ETT unless somebody there measured it and told someone. I expect a 
lot of these bikes to show up with flattish 31.8 mtb bars or Jones Loops. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Kevin Mulcahy]

To me it looks like the top tube is too short if it’s designed around swept 
back bars, which means you’re going to get handcuffed when riding around 
switchback. 

How many rims out there that are suited for plus sized tires, tubeless 
compatible, and available for rim brake action? Slim pickens, no doubt. 
Especially for the silver lovers. Any rim brake options in 29+?

I was hoping for more of a “high performance” all-rounder rigid mtb, like a 
rethought MB-1 designed around some more progressive or modern examples of mtb 
geometry. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

here's a fairly current list of V brake lengths:

https://www.gravelbike.com/v-brake-arm-lengths/

I think maybe the ones I linked on ebay, which are longer than any of 
these, were intended for 26-700c conversions?  Whatever works, though.

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 10:41:08 AM UTC-6, iamkeith wrote:
>
> Quick search seems to suggest that V brakes with longer arms do exist.  
> These are 125mm long vs a typical 100mm, which seems like it should fit a 
> 3" tire.  I don't know what that does to the cable pull / leverage equation:
>
>
> https://www.ebay.com/itm/44mm-Extra-Long-V-Brakes-Rim-Front-Rear-Brake-Set-Linear-Pull-V-Brake-/221991915213
>
> On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-6, CMR wrote:
>>
>> It's similar brake routing as a Clem L isn't it? If you use v-brakes 
>> it'll be much cleaner, this is just an issue with cantilevers.
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[lconley]

It works better if you use a long cable hanger instead of a short cable 
hanger. I also like to wrap the cable around the drive side of the bike - 
lengthens / straightens out the curve. You can also use a seat stay bridge 
mounted hanger from Tektro, that is what I did on my Medium Mountain Mixte 
- looks like a similar curved seat stay bridge.

Laing
Cocoa, FL

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 12:18:04 PM UTC-4, CMR wrote:

> It's similar brake routing as a Clem L isn't it? If you use v-brakes it'll 
> be much cleaner, this is just an issue with cantilevers.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[iamkeith]

Quick search seems to suggest that V brakes with longer arms do exist.  
These are 125mm long vs a typical 100mm, which seems like it should fit a 
3" tire.  I don't know what that does to the cable pull / leverage equation:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/44mm-Extra-Long-V-Brakes-Rim-Front-Rear-Brake-Set-Linear-Pull-V-Brake-/221991915213

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 10:18:04 AM UTC-6, CMR wrote:
>
> It's similar brake routing as a Clem L isn't it? If you use v-brakes it'll 
> be much cleaner, this is just an issue with cantilevers.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[CMR]

It's similar brake routing as a Clem L isn't it? If you use v-brakes it'll 
be much cleaner, this is just an issue with cantilevers.

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

['Clayton' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Wow. I keep trying to post, without luck

I wanted this to be a dedicated bike packer, so my critique is my crybaby cry, 
OK?  

The rear brake cable routing..I saw this design on MalWart bikes in the 
eighties. As a mechanic back in the day,  I worked on bikes with cable routing 
similar and the drag was huge if even slightly dirty.  This design alone kills 
the bike for me, but I assume it is a mistake or detail that will be rectified. 

The curved top tube means common frame bags won’t fit for bikepacking. Lack of 
triple braze-ons on the fork for anything cages is a head scratcher for a 
travel bike, as they seem to be more popular than front lowriders. 

I am going to keep staring at the photo for a few hours a day to see if it 
grows on me.And wait to see what details will be changed before I 
commit to another brand.  

Clayton
ddd



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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Joe Bernard]

I like ebikes (although I'm out of the game at the moment, I sold all my 
e-stuff), but that video is a terrible way to sell them. "Here's a bunch of 
motor power so you can fly through the air!" is a one-way ticket to ebikes 
being banned on trails. Heckuva job, boys. 

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ian m]

Also that fork is a beaut 

On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 11:43:49 PM UTC-4, Collin A wrote:
>
> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[ian m]

I had imagined the possibility of a Riv off-roader replacing my current 
Clem, as riding off road is 95% of my riding now, but this bike repeats the 
same design flaw as the Clem. Jones Bikes prove that you can have a huge 
wheelbase for an awesomely stable ride on a Mtn bike, but it shouldn't come 
from long chainstays. Putting the back wheel so far behind the rider's mass 
increases the difficulty in raising the front end, especially while riding 
uphill. While that may seem superfluous for perfectly manicured California 
trails, it's a necessity for riding off road in other places. Unless that 
seat tube is far slacker than the Clem's I think it would be a bear to 
handle on a rocky, rooty uphill. I am jealous of that pump peg tho


On Friday, September 14, 2018 at 11:43:49 PM UTC-4, Collin A wrote:
>
> Looks different, as all rivendell bikes do. It'll be interesting to see 
> how it rides and what the bike industry will think of it at the trade show.
>
> https://www.rivbike.com/blogs/peeking-through-the-knothole/all-about-ebikes
>
> Happy Saturday riding everyone,
> Collin
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[masmojo]

I can't say as I hate it!? It seems like a sort of evolution of the Clem to me, 
but I can't say I  would trade my Clementine for one. I would prefer it over my 
Clementine, it solves the water bottle problem & I like the larger, threadless 
steerer; I'll be interested to see how the fork handles those meaty 
wheels/tires.
Regarding climbing; I see a lot of mention of it here & I thought maybe I could 
demystify it for folks.
Good offroad climbing technique trumps most bike design considerations. On a 
hill where you fear losing traction. Get you upper body forward as much as 
possible, low over the handlebars. This prevents the "wheelies". Stay seated, 
then when it gets steep, while maintaining your body position PULL on the 
handlebars. This effectively uses your body position as a lever which pushes 
the back tire into the ground & prevents the dreaded back tire "spin" & loss of 
traction. 
My Surly Ogre has an impossibly short rear triangle, but I can climb some 
pretty steep stuff using this technique. No problem. My main issue is running 
out of juice.

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Reed Kennedy]

On Mon, Sep 17, 2018 at 7:09 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Tangent from the current Blahg: That ebike video was weird. "We don't read
> books" ? 
>

I know, I know! They don't read books, they don't eat nice meals, and their
bikes don't need to be pedaled.

What are they saving all this time and energy for? It must be amazing!


Reed
(Who will be quite abashed when an ebike rider cures cancer.)

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[M Talley]

Speaking of fitting to bikes with 2.8 width tires. Can you imagine a 
V-brake that would work with that wide of a seat stays and have pads that 
reach the rims. It would seem they have to use cantilevers. Just wondering 
- maybe it has been done.
Mark

On Monday, September 17, 2018 at 6:36:09 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> Well, I don't think that's necessarily the case--I think there are plenty 
> of folks who wouldn't cotton to the newer generations of Rivendells, even 
> after a spin or two on one. While *I *think they offer a type of ride 
> that almost anyone would enjoy and benefit from, the new Rivs don't fit 
> everyone's perception of what they should be doing on a bicycle, how it 
> should look, etc., etc, etc. Hey, you can lead a horse to water. And that's 
> fine, as long as Rivendell can figure out how to sell enough to make a 
> decent living for everyone involved in the enterprise.  And I'm impressed 
> by Don's apparent faith, keeping track of Rivendell despite ZERO interest 
> in any of the bicycles released by the company in the last decade (the 
> Rodeo came out around this time in 2009.) Hope springs eternal!
>
> I think the Hill Bike looks wonderful, and with the conditions found on 
> many streets these days, it would make a sensible commuter for during the 
> week riding. Wonder what fenders would fit over the 2.8 x 27.5?
>
> On Sunday, September 16, 2018 at 10:51:08 PM UTC-4, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> The "sweepback bar cruisers" ride great, as does my Roadini. In my 
>> opinion only someone who's never ridden the new models would dismiss them. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: New "Hill" Bike is Posted

[Ryan M.]

After riding the Appaloosa for a little bit I’m totally sold on the current 
long chain stay thing Riv has going. So far after owning other Riva, the App is 
my favorite Rivendell. 

This Hill bike has some details that I really appreciate for a “mountain bike.” 
 The threadless fork/headset and the full length brake housing are both 
positives for a bike that rolls through the dirt, rock, grass, and mud, which 
is the way I would ride it. I’m very curious to see a geometry chart for this 
bike. It looks like it would make a fine trail riding bike.

That janky brake cable routing in the rear makes me wonder why they would 
insist on canti posts instead of going with a disc brake, at least for the 
rear. With the plus tires one probably cannot use v brakes as the arms won’t be 
long enough, so cantis are the only choice. IMHO it is a poor choice for a bike 
that rolls through the dirt, rock, grass, and mud. 

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