Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Indeed – I've already got a large Saddlesack ready to go, which doesn't 
even have provisions for a seatpost strap. Just waiting on a rack to put it 
on. 

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 1:20:09 PM UTC-5, ted wrote:
>
> But you do need the large. You already know that, and don't need us to 
> tell you. So what are you waiting for??

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

They scratch my seatposts; I add the leather patch as described immediately
earlier.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 12:05 PM, John  wrote:

> Or replace with a strap from Riv? The Rivendell leather straps have
> beautiful, smooth, non-scratchy rivets.
>
>
> On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:28:14 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>>
>> Just enough to ruin the finish. I wrapped the leather in some electrical
>> tape after I noticed the issue. Hopefully that will keep it from scratching
>> any further down.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

I always (or, almost always*) cut a wee rectangle of leather and glue it to
the underside of the buckle, to cover the metal bits showing through,
before I strap anything to my seatpost.

*If the seatpost is already scratched, I sometimes don't bother.

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 10:52 AM, Stuart Lovinggood 
wrote:

> FWIW, the grommets on the leather straps Swift uses will eat right through
> your seatpost, as I just discovered on my shiny new Joe Appaloosa. Guess
> I'll order that sparkly Nitto seatpost I always wanted. Jk. But seriously.
>
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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Coconutbill]

I loved my Swift Zeitgeist - until it got stolen! 

I just purchased a Carradice Camper for $100, hopefully it holds up to the 
test.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[ted]

But you do need the large. You already know that, and don't need us to tell 
you. So what are you waiting for??

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[John]

Or replace with a strap from Riv? The Rivendell leather straps have 
beautiful, smooth, non-scratchy rivets.


On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 10:28:14 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> Just enough to ruin the finish. I wrapped the leather in some electrical 
> tape after I noticed the issue. Hopefully that will keep it from scratching 
> any further down. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Stuart Lovinggood]

Just enough to ruin the finish. I wrapped the leather in some electrical tape 
after I noticed the issue. Hopefully that will keep it from scratching any 
further down. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[John]

Hi Stuart, did the grommet actually scratch its way through the seat post?

John

On Sunday, April 23, 2017 at 9:52:26 AM UTC-7, Stuart Lovinggood wrote:
>
> FWIW, the grommets on the leather straps Swift uses will eat right through 
> your seatpost, as I just discovered on my shiny new Joe Appaloosa. Guess 
> I'll order that sparkly Nitto seatpost I always wanted. Jk. But seriously. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Stuart Lovinggood]

FWIW, the grommets on the leather straps Swift uses will eat right through your 
seatpost, as I just discovered on my shiny new Joe Appaloosa. Guess I'll order 
that sparkly Nitto seatpost I always wanted. Jk. But seriously. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I should be clear about the future of Sackvilles as I see it/predict it.

There's nothing on my visible horizon, but the two principles there are
aging and there may be another reason that I don't want to say -- that
leads to a retirement of both, and there is no middle-management eager or
able to take over the  business. It's not a humming factory, it's small and
efficient, but the standards required slow things down, and it takes us up
to 2 months to get an order.

If I hear news of the end of Sackvilles, I'll pass it on, and shame on me,
but prices will skyrocket at that time. Right now and since the start,
we've felt compelled to be price-competitive, but that all will fly out the
door eventually. I know how "bad" this candor may sound, but it is the
reality and all I'm doing is saying it.

On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:58 AM, LeahFoy  wrote:

> There are a lot of opinions on here already, so what's one more?
>
> I have the medium Sackville Saddlesack in tan, though I wish it was gray.
> (The gray came out just after I ordered my tan, and I have long lamented
> it. Gray is my color. Trade ya, anyone?) I also have the tan Backabikes,
> and the gray multipack - all wonderful.
>
> I looked at all the links posted for the other bagmakers, and I don't see
> any competition to the Sackvilles in either aesthetics or function.
> Everything was thought of, and then made beautiful. There are features to
> the bag that I haven't even discovered, so well thought up were the
> Sackvilles. I should NOT be dropping more cash on more bags, but I am *this
> close* after Grant's terrifying hint at the scarcity of the Sackvilles in
> future times. I should not be admitting this to a  group of shameless
> enablers like you! Next thing, you'll be sending replies about how I need
> the large, and then suddenly I'll be on the Riv site, swiping my credit
> card.
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[LeahFoy]

There are a lot of opinions on here already, so what's one more? 

I have the medium Sackville Saddlesack in tan, though I wish it was gray. (The 
gray came out just after I ordered my tan, and I have long lamented it. Gray is 
my color. Trade ya, anyone?) I also have the tan Backabikes, and the gray 
multipack - all wonderful. 

I looked at all the links posted for the other bagmakers, and I don't see any 
competition to the Sackvilles in either aesthetics or function. Everything was 
thought of, and then made beautiful. There are features to the bag that I 
haven't even discovered, so well thought up were the Sackvilles. I should NOT 
be dropping more cash on more bags, but I am *this close* after Grant's 
terrifying hint at the scarcity of the Sackvilles in future times. I should not 
be admitting this to a  group of shameless enablers like you! Next thing, 
you'll be sending replies about how I need the large, and then suddenly I'll be 
on the Riv site, swiping my credit card.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[drew]

I'm selling a basically new carradice Nelson longflap in olive (to fund a blue 
saddlesack) in another thread, if anyone is interested. 100$ shipped. Pm me

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Shawn Granton]

Hey Eric-

I had the small version of their saddlebag for a few years. It was fine.
You are correct in thinking the quality isn't going to be as nice as the
other options. I found that the leather wasn't as good, and since the
canvas isn't as thick or stiff as others, the bag can sag. If you already
own a Minnehaha and know what to expect, the bag should serve you well.

Before you decide, you should first do a check of that internet auction
site to see if there are any Carradice bags for around that price.
Sometimes you can luck out!

yours,
Shawn

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On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:28 AM, Eric Langley  wrote:

> Anyone have any experience with the Minnehaha Medium
> 
> bag?
>
> I have their canvas panniers, and I'm pretty happy with them. Going on a
> weeklong tour this summer with front panniers, handlebar bag, and a rear
> saddlebag.
>
> This one seems capacious enough for my needs, and definitely within
> price-range at about $60-$70. Quality unlikely to be on par with some of
> the suggestions, but IDK. What do you think?
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Eric Langley]

Anyone have any experience with the Minnehaha Medium 
 
bag?

I have their canvas panniers, and I'm pretty happy with them. Going on a 
weeklong tour this summer with front panniers, handlebar bag, and a rear 
saddlebag. 

This one seems capacious enough for my needs, and definitely within 
price-range at about $60-$70. Quality unlikely to be on par with some of 
the suggestions, but IDK. What do you think?

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I spelled all of them wrong. I give up on those words.

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 6:17 PM, Shawn Granton <
urbanadventurelea...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thanks! I'm going to save this up for the Grant Petersen spelling bee.
>
> (By the way, you spelled occasions wrong.)
>
> Yours,
> Shawn "Please don't ask about my disastrous showing in my sixth grade
> spelling bee" Granton
>
> Yeah, this electronic communiqué comes from "a device".
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>
>
>
>
> On Apr 16, 2017 18:05, "Grant Petersen"  wrote:
>
> I'm a good speller except for occassions, diahrhea, characature... the CT
> was just a fastly typed typo. I don't sweat the spellings for these posts,
> don't go over them.
>
> On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
> rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
>> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
>> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
>> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell 
>> *blog*--though
>> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
>> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
>> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
>> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
>> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
>> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
>> here . Talk about creative.
>>
>> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
>> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
>> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>>
>> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>>
>>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Shawn Granton]

Oh, there was more than one occasion. ;-)

Shawn "I should probably go to bed now, if I were home" Granton

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On Apr 16, 2017 18:29, "drew"  wrote:

> I think occasions was the example
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[drew]

I think occasions was the example

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Shawn Granton]

Thanks! I'm going to save this up for the Grant Petersen spelling bee.

(By the way, you spelled occasions wrong.)

Yours,
Shawn "Please don't ask about my disastrous showing in my sixth grade
spelling bee" Granton

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On Apr 16, 2017 18:05, "Grant Petersen"  wrote:

I'm a good speller except for occassions, diahrhea, characature... the CT
was just a fastly typed typo. I don't sweat the spellings for these posts,
don't go over them.

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell *blog*--though
> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
> here . Talk about creative.
>
> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>
>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

I'm a good speller except for occassions, diahrhea, characature... the CT
was just a fastly typed typo. I don't sweat the spellings for these posts,
don't go over them.

On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell *blog*--though
> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
> here . Talk about creative.
>
> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>
>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>
>> --
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> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Shawn Granton]

Well, there is that thing called "spell check. 

Shawn "hates seeing that red squiggly line under words" Granton, who lives
by not one, but two long tidal rivers to make up for no longer living in
the Constitution State


On Sun, Apr 16, 2017 at 11:18 AM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a
> creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in
> this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell *blog*--though
> it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the
> spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa
> photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more
> examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all
> those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor
> league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found
> here . Talk about creative.
>
> Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in
> Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living
> in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland
>
> On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>>
>>
>>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory
>>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) )
>>
>> --
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>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Just so's ya knows, if you didn't already, Grant is what you might call a 
creative grammarist, or a poetic speller. I do not know if that applies in 
this particular case, but consider, *blug* is not how you spell *blog*--though 
it is closer than *blahg*. Here is a recent headline. Try to find the 
spelling "errors": "Le SLIVER CARNK & below that, some new joe Appaloosa 
photos." If you search his writing, you'll likely find one or two more 
examples. But then again, maybe he got it mixed up with Mississippi and all 
those homogeneous digraphs. If in fact it was a mistake, Grant is minor 
league compared to the 63 most common mispellings of Connecticut found here 
. Talk about creative.

Mark "not a Connecticuter, Connecticutian, or Nutmegger, but grew up in 
Northport, NY, right across the Long Island Sound from Norwalk, now living 
in Beacon, near another long, tidal river" Roland

On Saturday, April 15, 2017 at 1:42:07 PM UTC-4, Shawn Granton wrote:
>
>
>- I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory 
>(there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) ) 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Jonathan D.]

Thanks for sharing treetop. I like the designs. I bookmarked the page. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Shawn Granton]

Throwing in my two cents, though I doubt I'll sway anyone:


   - I've been satisfied with my Carradice bags. Yeah, the newer ones 
   aren't built as well as the old ones, but I like how they work and I like 
   how they look. And they are repairable. And if you hunt around, you can 
   usually find a used one for a decent price.
   - I know that the Sackvilles in all their made-in-Connecticut glory 
   (there's only one "T" at the end of Connecticut, Grant. ;-) ) are good and 
   built well. But (and I know this will get me burned at the stake on this 
   list, but I'll just say it) aesthetically they don't do much for me. I also 
   like saddlebags that are designed to look good and work without a rack, and 
   it seems like anything beyond the smallest saddlebags need a rack. Part of 
   the reason why I want a saddlebag is to not have a rear rack. (Granted, I 
   have used bag supports...)
   - The Swift bags are well made, but I like canvas, and their saddlebags 
   are small.
   - The Acorn bags are also nice. I have a handlebar bag.
   - And since it hasn't been mentioned here yet, one of our fellow list 
   members, David Banzer, makes some pretty sweet canvas bags, including a 
   saddlebag. They are not big, but big enough for day rides. I own this one 
   here: http://treetop.bigcartel.com/product/saddlebag

Shawn "Made in Connecticutt (sic)" Granton

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

The Sackvilles are hands, knees, and toes better than anything else out
there; almost too nice for a bike. I was lucky recently to score a well
used but still very decent Large one for $100 off the list, and that
included shipping, so I'm very happy. I had earlier owned a new Medium,
sold because I find panniers more useful, but the large is very much closer
to my Roller Packers in usefulness.

I hope Rivendell isn't planning to stop making the Sackvilles? That is what
"scramble" seems to indicate.

I also owned 2 Cartwrights, the Adam and the Hoss, and those were nice,
too, better than the best Carradices; but not nearly as nice as the
Sackvilles. And I've owned many, many Carradices. There's no question that
some, at least, of the later Carradices are far inferior in quality to the
best Nelson LFs and Camper LFs of the '90s.

All that said, I have a nostalgia for the Carradices of the 1990s, the old
black ones. Not nearly as good as the Sackvilles, but no corners cut,
either; rather like a RB-1 compared to a Masi. (Or something.) And what
about the first little saddlebags sold by Rivendell in the first years,
those with the ties instead of buckles? I somehow came across one a couple
of years ago. I think my brother has it now.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 6:52 AM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a
> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have
> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that
> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that
> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost
> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and
> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags
> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only
> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were
> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and
> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one
> of them.
>
>

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[WETH]

In addition, I also needed 2 cassettes, 2 long derailleur cables, bioshield, 
and of course a bandana!

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

Have one. And a backup.  That stuff is da bomb.

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 13, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Bill Lindsay 
> wrote:

Tom

While you are remembering the things you forgot, I'll remind you to remember 
whether you need to add a tub of Phil Hand Cleaner.  That was the other thing I 
bought, because my tub just went dry.  If you have a full tub already, then you 
know.  If you never had one, you can thank me later when you get one.

Bill

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:39:07 PM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:
Oh man -- missed opportunity.  Time to make another cybervisit

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 3:24 PM, WETH  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the suggestion! I will add one or two to my cart!
>
> --
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The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
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probonolaw.com domain names is in his/her personal 
capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its affiliates.

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The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher 
& Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on behalf of 
Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or probonolaw.com domain 
names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Bill Lindsay]

Tom

While you are remembering the things you forgot, I'll remind you to 
remember whether you need to add a tub of Phil Hand Cleaner.  That was the 
other thing I bought, because my tub just went dry.  If you have a full tub 
already, then you know.  If you never had one, you can thank me later when 
you get one.  

Bill

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:39:07 PM UTC-7, Pudge wrote:
>
> Oh man -- missed opportunity.  Time to make another cybervisit 
>
> Sent from my iPhone 
>
> > On Apr 13, 2017, at 3:24 PM, WETH  
> wrote: 
> > 
> > Thanks for the suggestion! I will add one or two to my cart! 
> > 
> > -- 
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> . 
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> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>  
>
>
> The sender of this email is a retired partner of Skadden, Arps, Slate, 
> Meagher & Flom LLP ("Skadden") and is not performing legal service on 
> behalf of Skadden. Use by a retired partner of the skadden.com or 
> probonolaw.com domain names is in his/her personal capacity and not on 
> behalf of Skadden or its affiliates. 
>

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

Oh man -- missed opportunity.  Time to make another cybervisit

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 3:24 PM, WETH  wrote:
>
> Thanks for the suggestion! I will add one or two to my cart!
>
> --
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names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

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Re: [Ext] Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

Bill's note inspired me to order up a blue Medium Saddlesack, too.
Because it's blue.
How 'bout you?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Apr 13, 2017, at 3:12 PM, WETH  wrote:
>
> Well done Bill!  Today, I put a blue small saddlesack in my cart. I will 
> complete transaction tonight once I make sure I don't "need" anything else!  
> The blue will look great on my Road Stnd and my green Cheviot!
>
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names is in his/her personal capacity and not on behalf of Skadden or its 
affiliates.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[WETH]

Thanks for the suggestion! I will add one or two to my cart!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Bill Lindsay]

Consider the blue fender flaps while they still exist.  Those only get made 
from scraps.  No scraps means no flaps. 

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:12:09 PM UTC-7, WETH wrote:
>
> Well done Bill!  Today, I put a blue small saddlesack in my cart. I will 
> complete transaction tonight once I make sure I don't "need" anything else! 
>  The blue will look great on my Road Stnd and my green Cheviot!
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[WETH]

Well done Bill!  Today, I put a blue small saddlesack in my cart. I will 
complete transaction tonight once I make sure I don't "need" anything else!  
The blue will look great on my Road Stnd and my green Cheviot!

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Bill Lindsay]

Grant prompted me to get off my butt.  I knew I needed (NEEDED, I SAY!) a 
BLUE saddlesack medium.  Despite the fact that I have one in Olive already 
the reasons were myriad

1.  It's blue
2.  My kids are 13 and 15 and this is the Summer of Campouts, and both are 
big enough to carry their own stuff
3.  Riv has a vanishing number of matching blue fender flaps
4.  My olive one has the 'good enough' but not 'best possible' leather 
bottom.  The Blue one has the best possible new bottom.  
5.  It's blue
6.  I would handwring up a storm when the blue ones are sold out 
7.  It's good for the soul to put money in the register at Rivendell 
Bicycle Works
8.  The matching blue shopsacks are coming, and will all look splendid on 
my new 650B Atlantis that's coming
9.  It's blue

So on my way to work I rolled by RBW HQ, saw the cool blueys in person, and 
bought a Saddlesack Medium and a matching pair of fender flaps.  

Bill bag-matchers-gonna-bag-match Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 5:53:15 AM UTC-7, Grant @ Rivendell wrote:
>
> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a 
> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have 
> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that 
> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that 
> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost 
> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and 
> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags 
> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only 
> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were 
> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and 
> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one 
> of them. 
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Chris Birkenmaier]

Have to agree with the above two posts.  For quite a while I had tried to 
acquire one but it was like seeking out a 4 leaf clover and I tired of it 
especially when there are other quality products out there.  I understand 
the whole cottage industry and all but at some point if you simply can't 
buy one you kind of drift away from it.

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 12:44:07 PM UTC-4, Marc Irwin wrote:
>
> I like the looks and quality of Acorn and have seen a few in the wild, but 
> got really frustrated trying to buy one.  They only make a certain quantity 
> each month and the ordering window seems to fill up in minutes.  I've used 
> FR, Sackville and (in the olden days)Cannondale but think Sackville are the 
> best by far for everyday biking.  I have 3 Sackville Saddlebags, a 
> trunkbag,two shopping bags.and a tool roll.  
>
> Marc
>
> On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>> Does anyone have experience with the Acorn bags?
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Grant Petersen  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a 
>>> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have 
>>> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that 
>>> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that 
>>> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost 
>>> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and 
>>> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags 
>>> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only 
>>> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were 
>>> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and 
>>> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one 
>>> of them. 
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:

> Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with 
> cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much 
> thicker, 
> quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.
>
>
 I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I 
 suppose it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey 
 leather 
 straps, and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand 
 Carradice bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper - 
 both were the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather 
 on both was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in 
 the 
 buckles - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I 
 ended up selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a 
 concern at the time.

 -Jeff
 Silver Spring, MD

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Marc Irwin]

I like the looks and quality of Acorn and have seen a few in the wild, but 
got really frustrated trying to buy one.  They only make a certain quantity 
each month and the ordering window seems to fill up in minutes.  I've used 
FR, Sackville and (in the olden days)Cannondale but think Sackville are the 
best by far for everyday biking.  I have 3 Sackville Saddlebags, a 
trunkbag,two shopping bags.and a tool roll.  

Marc

On Thursday, April 13, 2017 at 11:16:01 AM UTC-4, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
> Does anyone have experience with the Acorn bags?
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Grant Petersen  > wrote:
>
>> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a 
>> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have 
>> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that 
>> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that 
>> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost 
>> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and 
>> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags 
>> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only 
>> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were 
>> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and 
>> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one 
>> of them. 
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance > > wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew >> > wrote:
>>>
 Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with 
 cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker, 
 quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.


>>> I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I 
>>> suppose it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather 
>>> straps, and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand 
>>> Carradice bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper - 
>>> both were the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather 
>>> on both was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the 
>>> buckles - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I 
>>> ended up selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a 
>>> concern at the time.
>>>
>>> -Jeff
>>> Silver Spring, MD
>>>
>>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Jeff Lesperance]

I've had a few Acorn bags over the years, and still have what was their
large saddebag in my inventory, though I think that particular design no
longer exists in their catalog. Though I haven't had a new Acorn bag in
several years, the bags I've had from them have been of high quality
materials and with good/smart design and assemblage. My recollection is
that they've been tricky to acquire, so I've looked elsewhere for recent
needs.

Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 11:15 AM, Lee Legrand  wrote:

> Does anyone have experience with the Acorn bags?
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Grant Petersen 
> wrote:
>
>> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a
>> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have
>> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that
>> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that
>> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost
>> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and
>> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags
>> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only
>> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were
>> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and
>> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one
>> of them.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance <
>> jeff.lespera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:
>>>
 Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with
 cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker,
 quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.


>>> I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I
>>> suppose it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather
>>> straps, and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand
>>> Carradice bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper -
>>> both were the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather
>>> on both was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the
>>> buckles - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I
>>> ended up selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a
>>> concern at the time.
>>>
>>> -Jeff
>>> Silver Spring, MD
>>>
>>> --
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Lee Legrand]

Does anyone have experience with the Acorn bags?

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 8:52 AM, Grant Petersen  wrote:

> At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a
> scramble for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have
> a bag made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that
> doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that
> contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost
> superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and
> "forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags
> are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only
> four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were
> higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and
> Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one
> of them.
>
> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance <
> jeff.lespera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:
>>
>>> Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with
>>> cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker,
>>> quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.
>>>
>>>
>> I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I
>> suppose it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather
>> straps, and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand
>> Carradice bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper -
>> both were the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather
>> on both was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the
>> buckles - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I
>> ended up selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a
>> concern at the time.
>>
>> -Jeff
>> Silver Spring, MD
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant Petersen]

At some point in the distant but forseeable future there will be a scramble
for sackville bags, and it will be lead by those who already have a bag
made with the highest quality materials and a flat-floored pouch that
doesn't tilt the load, and has a stiff lower lip and a flap-tongue that
contains the stuff inside so securely that the straps are almost
superfluous. "distant" is underterminable, but is not a ploy, and
"forseeable" is in sharper focus. Debate and wait all you like--the bags
are expensive, no doubt, but in 22 years of business, I've run into only
four vendor-suppliers (out of a thousand?) whose quality standards were
higher than our own, that never needed "guidance" or ramping up, and
Waterbury Leather Works--who makes those bags for us in Connecticutt—is one
of them.

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 4:56 AM, Jeff Lesperance 
wrote:

> On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:
>
>> Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with
>> cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker,
>> quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.
>>
>>
> I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I suppose
> it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather straps,
> and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand Carradice
> bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper - both were
> the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather on both
> was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the buckles
> - I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I ended up
> selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a concern at
> the time.
>
> -Jeff
> Silver Spring, MD
>
> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Jeff Lesperance]

On Thu, Apr 13, 2017 at 1:25 AM, drew  wrote:

> Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with
> cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker,
> quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year.
>
>
I have a Camper (longflap) that I bought in the last two years - I suppose
it could have been NOS, that has the green canvas and honey leather straps,
and the straps are thick and robust. I've had two second-hand Carradice
bags over the past five years, one a Nelson, and one a Camper - both were
the black fabric with white leather straps IIRC, and the leather on both
was thin and appeared to scuff and stretch when pulled tight in the buckles
- I'd not have trusted them to last over years of regular usage. I ended up
selling those bags, not because of the straps, but they were a concern at
the time.

-Jeff
Silver Spring, MD

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[drew]

Is it possible that it's a quality control issue? I have a Nelson with 
cardboard feeling, brittle, cracky leather and a camper with much thicker, 
quality feeling leather. Both purchased in the same year. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

By the way, there is a ridiculous disconnect between the prices of Carridice 
stuff ordered from the UK vs the US. Look at SJS and others. And that was 
before Brexit demolished the pound. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Orc]

On Monday, April 10, 2017 at 7:36:24 PM UTC-7, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Then the Bagman breaks and
>

... you go out and buy one of the Ocean Air bagman clones?

-david parsons 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Justin August]

Then the Bagman breaks and

-Justin

On Apr 10, 2017, 7:00 PM -0700, Lee Legrand , wrote:
> Not to turn this is a carradice saddlebag discussion but the one thing I 
> notice is now they offer the bagman support for all their saddlebags. By 
> using thinner leather, they are not built to be hanged at the seat under load 
> but supported underneath using the bagman support and leather is there just 
> for lateral stability while riding.
>
> Just a hypothesis
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Justin, Oakland  (mailto:justinaug...@gmail.com)> wrote:
> > The leather on my Carradice is thin, dry and tears easily. If I had the 
> > gumption I'd replace it all with clips or rare earth magnets or toe clip 
> > cinch downs. It really puts a damper on an otherwise great bag.
> >
> > -Justin
> >
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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Lee Legrand]

Not to turn this is a carradice saddlebag discussion but the one thing I
notice is now they offer the bagman support for all their saddlebags.  By
using thinner leather, they are not built to be hanged at the seat under
load but supported underneath using the bagman support and leather is there
just for lateral stability while riding.

Just a hypothesis

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 8:48 PM, Justin, Oakland 
wrote:

> The leather on my Carradice is thin, dry and tears easily. If I had the
> gumption I'd replace it all with clips or rare earth magnets or toe clip
> cinch downs. It really puts a damper on an otherwise great bag.
>
> -Justin
>
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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Justin, Oakland]

The leather on my Carradice is thin, dry and tears easily. If I had the 
gumption I'd replace it all with clips or rare earth magnets or toe clip cinch 
downs. It really puts a damper on an otherwise great bag. 

-Justin

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Ian Strader]

The medium Sackville Saddlebag is one of the best purchases I've ever made. 
The interior seems to link to some kind of folded spacetime that swallows 
large objects into null-space, such is its capacity. With the Nitto quick 
release, it's pure pleasure!

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:12:12 PM UTC-7, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

Oh, and you didn't worry about Brooks slots cutting through the leather of
the old ones; in fact, you could hardly get the straps through the slots,
so thick was the leather.

The current Carradices are still good, btw, and I wouldn't hesitate to own
one if I wanted to; and given the prices compared to alternatives, the
quality is even more desirable. But man, I miss the old ones!

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Carradice, old versus new, quality: Let me explain: the first Longlflaps I
> owned had leather straps so thick that you had to break them in to make
> them easy to buckle down. The leather wasn't as good as the best Rivendell
> supplies for its Sackvilles, but it was PDG.
>
> The canvas was thicker, and in particular, the wear patch on the bottom of
> the Nelson Longflap was made from the same heavy, waxed canvas, not vinyl
> or whatever replaced it. The inside of the Longflap was lined with a thin,
> supple, greyish cloth.
>
> The Nelson and Camper Longflaps had thick cotton tapes pulling together
> interior side flaps instead of drawstrings pulling nylon necks tight; one
> may have his own opinion about the drawstring versus the tapes, but one
> can't deny that the flaps and the cotton tapes were tightly woven cotton.
>
> The buckles had little rollers on them to make snugging up the straps
> easier. The metal was thicker, too.
>
> You could -- I did -- fill one of those old Longflaps with water and, for
> 15 minutes, nothing would leak.
>
> The last ones I've owned, mostly Juniors, but also a Nelson from the mid
> 2000s, have inferior leather and canvas. They're still good, but not as
> good as the ones Rivendell first sold in the mid '90s.
>
> OTOH, the Saddlesacks are better than any Nelson, old or new, that I have
> seen.
>
> You have to see the 1990s Nelson Longflap and compare it to a contemporary
> one to understand the difference. I wish I had kept my original Nelson LF,
> Camper LF, and Junior.
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Patrick Moore 
> wrote:
>
>> The newest Nelsons and Juniors that I've bought are, compared to those of
>> 20 years ago, *not* as well made: material thinner, leather thinner,
>> buckles cheaper.
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Steve Palincsar 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 04/10/2017 09:10 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>>
 Are the carradice saddlebags not made as well today as they were years
 ago?  I was thinking of getting a nelson saddlebag just to hold my basic
 tools for riding.  Nothing really big just room for pumps, spare tube,
 patches and multi-tool to have in emergencies.

>>>
>>> As far as I can tell, they're better.  Back in the day, the
>>> "traditional" Carradice bags had a big opening with two side flaps with tie
>>> strings that didn't meet in the middle.  Now there's a "skirt" with a
>>> draw-string closure that almost completely covers the opening.  It's much
>>> less likely with the new style bag to have things fall out.  Otherwise, the
>>> materials and construction details appear very similar if not exactly
>>> identical.
>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
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>
>
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

Carradice, old versus new, quality: Let me explain: the first Longlflaps I
owned had leather straps so thick that you had to break them in to make
them easy to buckle down. The leather wasn't as good as the best Rivendell
supplies for its Sackvilles, but it was PDG.

The canvas was thicker, and in particular, the wear patch on the bottom of
the Nelson Longflap was made from the same heavy, waxed canvas, not vinyl
or whatever replaced it. The inside of the Longflap was lined with a thin,
supple, greyish cloth.

The Nelson and Camper Longflaps had thick cotton tapes pulling together
interior side flaps instead of drawstrings pulling nylon necks tight; one
may have his own opinion about the drawstring versus the tapes, but one
can't deny that the flaps and the cotton tapes were tightly woven cotton.

The buckles had little rollers on them to make snugging up the straps
easier. The metal was thicker, too.

You could -- I did -- fill one of those old Longflaps with water and, for
15 minutes, nothing would leak.

The last ones I've owned, mostly Juniors, but also a Nelson from the mid
2000s, have inferior leather and canvas. They're still good, but not as
good as the ones Rivendell first sold in the mid '90s.

OTOH, the Saddlesacks are better than any Nelson, old or new, that I have
seen.

You have to see the 1990s Nelson Longflap and compare it to a contemporary
one to understand the difference. I wish I had kept my original Nelson LF,
Camper LF, and Junior.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Patrick Moore  wrote:

> The newest Nelsons and Juniors that I've bought are, compared to those of
> 20 years ago, *not* as well made: material thinner, leather thinner,
> buckles cheaper.
>
> On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 04/10/2017 09:10 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>>
>>> Are the carradice saddlebags not made as well today as they were years
>>> ago?  I was thinking of getting a nelson saddlebag just to hold my basic
>>> tools for riding.  Nothing really big just room for pumps, spare tube,
>>> patches and multi-tool to have in emergencies.
>>>
>>
>> As far as I can tell, they're better.  Back in the day, the "traditional"
>> Carradice bags had a big opening with two side flaps with tie strings that
>> didn't meet in the middle.  Now there's a "skirt" with a draw-string
>> closure that almost completely covers the opening.  It's much less likely
>> with the new style bag to have things fall out.  Otherwise, the materials
>> and construction details appear very similar if not exactly identical.
>>
>>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Patrick Moore]

The newest Nelsons and Juniors that I've bought are, compared to those of
20 years ago, *not* as well made: material thinner, leather thinner,
buckles cheaper.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Steve Palincsar  wrote:

>
>
> On 04/10/2017 09:10 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
>
>> Are the carradice saddlebags not made as well today as they were years
>> ago?  I was thinking of getting a nelson saddlebag just to hold my basic
>> tools for riding.  Nothing really big just room for pumps, spare tube,
>> patches and multi-tool to have in emergencies.
>>
>
> As far as I can tell, they're better.  Back in the day, the "traditional"
> Carradice bags had a big opening with two side flaps with tie strings that
> didn't meet in the middle.  Now there's a "skirt" with a draw-string
> closure that almost completely covers the opening.  It's much less likely
> with the new style bag to have things fall out.  Otherwise, the materials
> and construction details appear very similar if not exactly identical.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Philip Kim]

YEp, just hopped on this pre-order. I was able to see this in-person on my 
last visit to pick up the appaloosa from them. Well-made, and they 
customized the fabrics and all that. it has a nice nylon inner, that is 
durable and waterproof.

On Sunday, April 9, 2017 at 12:47:53 PM UTC-4, Broccoli Cog wrote:
>
> I had been mulling over the same decisions. Thanks to the good folks on 
> this board and the valuable feedback I received here I was able to make a 
> decision as to which one to buy. I have a Wald basket and a Swift Sugarloaf 
> bag on the front that carries tools, spare tubes and everyday items.  On 
> the rear I have a Nitto R-14 rack.  I wanted to get a bag that worked well 
> with the rack. I was very close to buying the Sackville Medium and even 
> contemplated a large. I also thought about the Swift Zeitgeist but ended up 
> going in a different direction. I ended up buying a bag from Makeshifter. 
> They call it their Outback Saddle. I purchased it from the good folks at 
> Gravel & Grind in Frederick, MD. I just love the size, the styling and the 
> material used. Gravel and Grind is supposed to have them in stock in May. 
> Right now they are taking pre-orders because they have a limited number 
> available. Here is a link to the bag that I ended up buying. 
> http://www.makeshiftercanvasworks.com/bicycle-bags-accessories/outback-saddlebag
>
> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:12:12 PM UTC-4, Max Bergen wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of 
>> your opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If 
>> so, I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>>
>> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
>> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
>> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>>
>> Cheers, 
>> Max
>> San Diego
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Steve Palincsar]

On 04/10/2017 09:10 AM, Lee Legrand wrote:
Are the carradice saddlebags not made as well today as they were years 
ago?  I was thinking of getting a nelson saddlebag just to hold my 
basic tools for riding.  Nothing really big just room for pumps, spare 
tube, patches and multi-tool to have in emergencies.


As far as I can tell, they're better.  Back in the day, the 
"traditional" Carradice bags had a big opening with two side flaps with 
tie strings that didn't meet in the middle.  Now there's a "skirt" with 
a draw-string closure that almost completely covers the opening.  It's 
much less likely with the new style bag to have things fall out.  
Otherwise, the materials and construction details appear very similar if 
not exactly identical.


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Re: [RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Lee Legrand]

Are the carradice saddlebags not made as well today as they were years
ago?  I was thinking of getting a nelson saddlebag just to hold my basic
tools for riding.  Nothing really big just room for pumps, spare tube,
patches and multi-tool to have in emergencies.

On Mon, Apr 10, 2017 at 12:45 AM, Jay in Tel Aviv 
wrote:

> I commute with a Carradice Super C which I chose over the various
> longflaps because of the easy opening clips. I've used various supports and
> racks over the years. This is a great setup for me and I have no reason to
> charnge it. Having said that, if I were starting over today I'd probably
> choose either a large or medium saddlesack. They are all really good bags.
> You can't really go wrong with any of them.
>
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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Jay in Tel Aviv]

I commute with a Carradice Super C which I chose over the various longflaps 
because of the easy opening clips. I've used various supports and racks over 
the years. This is a great setup for me and I have no reason to charnge it. 
Having said that, if I were starting over today I'd probably choose either a 
large or medium saddlesack. They are all really good bags. You can't really go 
wrong with any of them.

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Grant @ Rivendell]

The "bad blood" is that the guy who used to own and started Frost River 
stole our designs and said they were his...and that was after many generous 
and helpful-in-money ways gestures on our part to help his business get 
started and stay afloat. It was a bummer, but he was desperate, and I 
understand the force of desperation.  The current FR owners knew nothing of 
that and--I just saw them once at an outdoor trade show--and they were 
willing to undo or do anything I wanted to make it right, and when they 
made that clear, I didn't care anymore, they can use our designs, and I 
hope they do well. 
There are lots of good bags out there. The Sackvilles are on Pluto, as good 
as anything we offer and emblematic of all we try to do. I dare anybody to 
hate them!

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:36:11 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote:
>
> I'm partial to waxed canvas and love Sackville. But I switched to Frost 
> Rivers bag because it plays better with bikepacking with my tent, sleeping 
> bag and pad on the rear rack because it goes sideways. Love the large side 
> pockets too. Only downside so far is I had to add the draw chord to 
> tighten/loosen the draw flaps that weather proof the bag beneath the top 
> flap. Ought to come with that. 
> https://www.frostriver.com/shop/bike-bags/gunflint-trail-seat-bag/ I'm 
> not sure but I think the design is Grant's Baggins design and there was bad 
> blood there somehow, but whatever happened, the bag is great.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick 
>
> On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Max Bergen wrote:
>>
>> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of 
>> your opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If 
>> so, I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>>
>> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
>> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
>> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>>
>> Cheers, 
>> Max
>> San Diego
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Broccoli Cog]

I had been mulling over the same decisions. Thanks to the good folks on 
this board and the valuable feedback I received here I was able to make a 
decision as to which one to buy. I have a Wald basket and a Swift Sugarloaf 
bag on the front that carries tools, spare tubes and everyday items.  On 
the rear I have a Nitto R-14 rack.  I wanted to get a bag that worked well 
with the rack. I was very close to buying the Sackville Medium and even 
contemplated a large. I also thought about the Swift Zeitgeist but ended up 
going in a different direction. I ended up buying a bag from Makeshifter. 
They call it their Outback Saddle. I purchased it from the good folks at 
Gravel & Grind in Frederick, MD. I just love the size, the styling and the 
material used. Gravel and Grind is supposed to have them in stock in May. 
Right now they are taking pre-orders because they have a limited number 
available. Here is a link to the bag that I ended up buying. 
http://www.makeshiftercanvasworks.com/bicycle-bags-accessories/outback-saddlebag

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:12:12 PM UTC-4, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[dstein]

I've had the zeitgeist and saddlesack. It really depends on what you're 
going to be using them for. The medium saddlesack is definitely larger 
(18-23L) than the zetigeist (11L).

I've mostly relied on the medium (and large) saddlesack for camping and 
errand running along with a shopsack up front, usually keeping the 
saddlesack off the bike unless I know I need it, whereas the zeitgest is 
something I usually keep on all the time and use for long rides to keep 
jackets/gloves/food/etc (probably not a whole lot of rhyme or reason to 
keeping one on all the time vs the other, just the way it is, something 
about the zeitgeist being smaller i guess). More recently I realized that 
if I stop using stuffsacks I can actually fit my tent and sleeping pad 
stuffed directly in my large zeitgest along with my inflatable sleeping pad 
and pillow, removing the need for a saddlesack, and that combined with a 
front bag for clothes and food is plenty for an overnighter (i guess 
smaller is simpler there, no real reason other than i could).

Another consideration is clearance. I'm short and ride 52cm frames and need 
rack support for both.

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Will Ashe]

I've owned Carradice and Sackville. My preference is Sackville due to the snap 
closures. Getting things in and out of the bag is very easy. Carridice has 
leather buckles which can be much more time consuming, especially when the 
leather is new and stiff.

Will 
Santa Monica --> Austin

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[ascpgh]

Good picks Max, I've been wondering what to get next myself. Planning for 
the demise of my Carradice is working out like my old Subaru. The bag got 
wax replenishment for about $12, the car got front half shafts for $155. 
The bag is still going, a drunk T-boned and killed the car. 

I like the saddle bag format. the lateral dimensioning keeps the load 
closer to center of mass. Critics observe it to appear ungainly wide but 
once on the bike it disappears behind your legs. You would hit your 
handlebar or knee before the bag if brushing close to anything. 

My Nelson's Longflap is seldom deployed, but makes the bag of two distinct 
load ranges without the smaller being slack and floppy. I have a bagman 
support under it and put my items for work into a summit sack (an improved 
stuff sack with shoulder straps) that goes right in and out. Helmet in it 
for the day while locked up.

Can't vouch for diminished quality of leather strapping, I'm still using 
mine. I bought it in 2001 and have bee using it as daily commuting city 
since 2007. I still wonder what I'll use next, so I'm eager to hear others' 
responses and observations  since I have also heard Carradice details have 
slipped in quality. 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh





I have been using a Carradice Nelson Longflap on my daily commuter for over 
ten years now. 

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 5:12:12 PM UTC-4, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[John]

+1 (+2?) for both Swift & the Sackville saddlebags. I own a few of both and 
love 'em.

One plus for the Swift bags over Sackvilles are the daisy chains and 
D-rings for lashing gear & stuff to the outside of the bag.

The Sackville design optimizes use of the top of a back rack.

Another favorite are saddlebags made by Dill Pickle Gear: high quality bags 
like Swift, but with more options & color choices.

John
 
On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:12:12 PM UTC-7, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Kellie]

I've had 2 Carradices and though I liked them I prefer the Saddlesacks. I 
have a small on my Saluki, no rack required and a large on my Atlantis.

the small below





On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 2:12:12 PM UTC-7, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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[RBW] Re: Opinions on saddlebags? Swift vs. Carradice vs. Sackville

[Deacon Patrick]

I'm partial to waxed canvas and love Sackville. But I switched to Frost 
Rivers bag because it plays better with bikepacking with my tent, sleeping 
bag and pad on the rear rack because it goes sideways. Love the large side 
pockets too. Only downside so far is I had to add the draw chord to 
tighten/loosen the draw flaps that weather proof the bag beneath the top 
flap. Ought to come with that. 
https://www.frostriver.com/shop/bike-bags/gunflint-trail-seat-bag/ I'm not 
sure but I think the design is Grant's Baggins design and there was bad 
blood there somehow, but whatever happened, the bag is great.

With abandon,
Patrick 

On Saturday, April 8, 2017 at 3:12:12 PM UTC-6, Max Bergen wrote:
>
> I'm in the market for a new saddlebag and would enjoy reading some of your 
> opinions. Has anyone used/currently uses any of these saddlebags? If so, 
> I'd enjoy reading about what you like and dislike. Thanks! 
>
> - Swift Zeitgeist (either size) 
> - Sackville Saddlebag (medium)
> - Carradice Barley or Nelson
>
> Cheers, 
> Max
> San Diego
>

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