[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[M G]

Lever / handlebar mount = a Paul's with an old bar end; it was temporary 
when it went on.  "nothing as permanent as a temporary solution"
Kickstand = a single pletcher; i don't love the double kickstand on a 
tandem or other bike; in my experience, less stable; the single kickstand = 
a bigger triangulation with the 2 wheels; i lock the rear wheel w the drag 
brake = very stable for loading
rear rack = a nitto, i bent it around to fit past the disk. R15 model.  I 
like because there are lower struts for lower back mounting.

On Saturday, June 8, 2019 at 1:59:17 PM UTC-4, Paul Burns wrote:
>
> M G 
>
> Thank you so much for showing me your fine bike.  I forgot to ask (and 
> others may be interested as well): 
>
> —what is the lever/handlebar mount for your drag brake? 
> —what kickstand do you use? 
> —which rear rack? 
>
> Thanks again!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Paul Burns]

M G

Thank you so much for showing me your fine bike.  I forgot to ask (and others 
may be interested as well):

—what is the lever/handlebar mount for your drag brake?
—what kickstand do you use?
—which rear rack?

Thanks again!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[M G]

I sent you a PM

On Thursday, June 6, 2019 at 7:57:39 AM UTC-4, Rob Kristoff wrote:
>
> what did you do with the motolites? Interested in selling?
>
> Rob
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Rob Kristoff]

what did you do with the motolites? Interested in selling?

Rob

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Paul Burns]

Thanks.  Looking forward to it!

—thanks
Paul 

> On Jun 5, 2019, at 21:30, M G  wrote:
> 
> @Paul BurnsI'm in the Berkshires, near GB / you can take a look in person.
> 
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[M G]

@Paul BurnsI'm in the Berkshires, near GB / you can take a look in person.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Jonathan K.]

Paul, I'm glad you revived this thread. I'm on the preorder list for a 
medium orange Hubbuhubbuh. I also ordered the Silver cranks and the 
Velocity wheels. 

As far as steerer length, why not leave it uncut for now? Just throw some 
spacers on there and cut it later on once you have the bar position dialed 
in.

MG, thanks for the detailed write up and picture. Most builds I've seen 
have some sort of swept back bar. Good to know other bars work well, too. I 
was leaning toward the new Wavie bar for mine. I recently put a set on my 
Surly Big Dummy and really like them on there, so I think I might try them 
on the tandem too. 

I'd like to echo Paul in requesting any build ideas, advice, reviews, 
pictures, etc. The new batch of frames are supposed to be shipping this 
month. Anyone else expecting/planning?

Thanks,
Jonathan

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Paul Burns]

Thanks, MG—beautiful bike and very helpful description.  Anyone else have an 
update/suggestions/advice/pics?  I’d be looking to ride it 80% on tarmac and 
20% on dirt roads in the rural hills of Berkshire County, Massachusetts, 
ideally with some sort of baskets/panniers to get groceries.

Also:  have PBH of 85, saddle height 75 and am 5’11” tall.  With a small 
Hubbuhubbuh, how much steerer tube do you think I should leave on to get Bosco 
bars (from Riv with stem built in) above the saddle??

Thanks,all

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Shoji Takahashi]

Hi Adam,
I have small HHH, and friction shift  (Shimano 9-speed bar-end shifter, 
Deore derailer, IIRC). I haven't had any problems with rear shifting. 
Stoker is usually one of my kids (<65 lbs), so there's not much frame flex.

My front shifter (Silver triple) occasionally is problematic for shifting 
to granny. (It might be a limit screw setting, but I'm not so keen on 
dropping the chain.)

Good luck!
shoji
Arlington MA


On Tuesday, June 4, 2019 at 4:05:41 PM UTC-4, Adam Leibow wrote:
>
> As a current Hubbuhubbuh owner, one piece of advice I can share is that 
> friction shifting was a PITA. My theory is the amount of distance the cable 
> travels combined with how much more a tandem frame flexes (longer tubing 
> distances + the weight of two people) equals mucho ghost shifting and 
> chain-jump weirdness. I could be wrong. But my problems went away when I 
> flipped the switch on my Ultegra shifters (mated to Paul thumbies) to 
> "index" mode. I'd steer clear of friction shifting on the tandem but I am 
> interested to hear others' experiences
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-8, Jim S. wrote:
>>
>> Hi all, 
>>
>> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be 
>> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds. 
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Adam Leibow]

As a current Hubbuhubbuh owner, one piece of advice I can share is that 
friction shifting was a PITA. My theory is the amount of distance the cable 
travels combined with how much more a tandem frame flexes (longer tubing 
distances + the weight of two people) equals mucho ghost shifting and 
chain-jump weirdness. I could be wrong. But my problems went away when I 
flipped the switch on my Ultegra shifters (mated to Paul thumbies) to 
"index" mode. I'd steer clear of friction shifting on the tandem but I am 
interested to hear others' experiences



On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-8, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be 
> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds. 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Jim S.]

I'm wondering if this might be the bicycle to try out Jones h-bar? Swept 
back - very wide grip. Could be ideal.

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 4:13:18 PM UTC-6, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be 
> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds. 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[René Sterental]

I've ordered a set of custom wheels from Rich, White Industries 40 spokes
F/R in silver and the tandem Silver crankset RBW offered a while back. Have
a set of Mini-Motos that I had ordered to test but never installed. The
rest is TBD. No fenders so I can put it on a roof rack as it will be for
fair weather riding assuming I can slowly get my wife to enjoy it.

No idea yet about shifters or handlebars, but it'll be for upright riding.
Have several I'll test to see what I like best.

No idea about tires yet either. Haven't done any research yet.

I do have a B67 and B67S Select saddles, so let's hope my wife likes hers.
Otherwise, they won't match! ;-)

Decided in the orange frame as I don't have any bike that color. Hope it's
bright and shinny, as the first test wasn't approved.

Now have to figure how to store it... and if another bike will leave.

René

On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 6:20 PM Julian Westerhout 
wrote:

> Jim,
>
> Like Bill, I will likely build ours up as a Clem-istic tandem.
> Velocity/Rich wheelset with generator hub. Silver cranks. V-brakes (I'd
> actually prefer cantilevers, but the way the rear seat cluster is built
> looks like it will preclude that without a lot of bodging). Suntour ratchet
> thumbshifter, low gears. It will have fenders -- we'll use it both as a
> town bike and for riding gravel trails in WI and MO (and possibly
> elsewhere). We'll have a front rack -- either a Gamoh or a Nitto/Wald combo
> for a shopsack.
>
> I'm expecting that soon Riv will reveal some possible build package
> options.
>
> Julian Westerhout
> Bloomington, Il
>
>
> On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 4:13:18 PM UTC-6, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be
> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds.
>
>
>
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Julian Westerhout]

Jim, 

Like Bill, I will likely build ours up as a Clem-istic tandem. 
Velocity/Rich wheelset with generator hub. Silver cranks. V-brakes (I'd 
actually prefer cantilevers, but the way the rear seat cluster is built 
looks like it will preclude that without a lot of bodging). Suntour ratchet 
thumbshifter, low gears. It will have fenders -- we'll use it both as a 
town bike and for riding gravel trails in WI and MO (and possibly 
elsewhere). We'll have a front rack -- either a Gamoh or a Nitto/Wald combo 
for a shopsack. 

I'm expecting that soon Riv will reveal some possible build package 
options. 

Julian Westerhout
Bloomington, Il 

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 4:13:18 PM UTC-6, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be 
> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds. 
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem builds

[Bill Lindsay]

I'm thinking about it as a Clementine/Clem Smith for two.  It'll have Bosco 
bars, at least initially.  It will have Silver cranks.  It will have 
Rich-built wheels with a dyno front hub and a disc-capable rear.  It'll 
have V-brakes, probably some vintage parallelogram style Shimano XT ones 
that I have on hand.  I'll use thumbshifters of some kind and probably run 
a 12-36 9sp cassette.  I'm sure Riv will have a tire that they want us to 
consider and I'll run that.  I won't run fenders because it'll be a 
fairweather bike.  I haven't decided what to do in the rack department, but 
I already have a Nitto Big front with a Wald basket that came off my 
Appaloosa, that I might run.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Tuesday, February 14, 2017 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-8, Jim S. wrote:
>
> Hi all, 
>
> I was wondering if any prospective Rivendell tandem owners would be 
> willing to share what they were thinking about for their builds. 
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

The effective top tube measurements on the Hub match those of mountain
bikes almost exactly. Would be easy to set one up with straight bars
at seat level to mimic a MTB feel.

On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 8:21 PM, 'Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch
 wrote:
> Hi Michael. When I said "tandem rally speedster" I was referring entirely to
> the bicycle. From what I can see, the majority of models from most
> tandem-specific makers are versions of the popular style of bicycle for club
> riding, regardless of age--tires on the skinny side, drop bars, latest bells
> and whistles, etc. T(here are also a few full on high-end mountain
> suspension bikes.)
>
> I hear you on the tandem demographic, and some of the possible reasons.
> (Though there is this.) That's another great thing about the Rivendell
> tandem project, the idea of getting more people to try it. As far as
> discretionary funds, see reason number 2 (strong relationship, good
> communication) for why tandems can sometimes be found at very reasonable
> prices in the used marketplace. Though again I suspect that may not be the
> case so much with the HHH.
>
> I confess that most of my (single bike) longer rides have been with drop
> bars--tradition and the old racing bones, mostly. However, based on reports
> I have read here, and my many years of experience with comfort and hand
> placement on uprights for commuting and town riding, as well as slower but
> long timewise rides on upright singles with my son, I will not hesitate to
> take the upright bar tandem on longer mileage rides once my guy is ready. I
> have plans for at least a 20-miler by end of summer. (Long being relative
> these days.) I suspect as I enter my 60s, if I have the luxury of an
> occasional long recreational ride, it could very well be with upright bars.
> Anyway, I don't really see the HHH as a regular century tandem, though no
> doubt it could easily accomplish one.
>
> As I said about the drops, I think it hasn't dawned on the captains to try
> something else. It's not on the radar. It's not tradition. Look at the
> transition of Riv listers, many of whom probably went from drops, to drops
> with super tall stems, to uprights--and not necessarily because they were
> forced to due to ailment and/or age. And tires. Even though tandems probably
> benefit even more from wider tires, (and I would argue upright bars, too)
> you just don't see a lot of it in the club tandem world--the connotation
> being that fat tires and upright bars equal a not very serious ride with
> degraded performance characteristics. A Schwinn Twinn. That's a belief
> system tough to crack. That's why you should get an HHH and shatter some
> shibboleths and blow some minds!
>
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:50:39 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> Do not associate the term rally with the term speedster.  My experience
>> has been that there are more teams in the 80's than in their 20s, more in
>> their 70s than in their 30's and probably more in their 60's than in their
>> 40's.  My 26 X 1.75 tires may be wider than avg but do not attract much
>> attention.  However, I have not seen many captains with anything other than
>> drop bars.  These are not usually set below saddle height but allow a
>> variety of body and hand positions on three or four hour rides.
>>
>> People don't get into tandems until they have a positive single
>> experience, a strong relationship with good communication, and a good bit of
>> discretionary funds.  By then most are past racing, but not necessarily past
>> the thrill of a fast downhill.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
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-- 
Cheers,
David

Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Michael. When I said "tandem rally speedster" I was referring entirely 
to the bicycle. From what I can see, the majority of models from most 
tandem-specific makers are versions of the popular style of bicycle for 
club riding, regardless of age--tires on the skinny side, drop bars, latest 
bells and whistles, etc. T(here are also a few full on high-end mountain 
suspension bikes.)

I hear you on the tandem demographic, and some of the possible reasons. (Though 
there is this. 
)
 
That's another great thing about the Rivendell tandem project, the idea of 
getting more people to try it. As far as discretionary funds, see reason 
number 2 (strong relationship, good communication) for why tandems can 
sometimes be found at very reasonable prices in the used marketplace. 
Though again I suspect that may not be the case so much with the HHH.

I confess that most of my (single bike) longer rides have been with drop 
bars--tradition and the old racing bones, mostly. However, based on reports 
I have read here, and my many years of experience with comfort and hand 
placement on uprights for commuting and town riding, as well as slower but 
long timewise rides on upright singles with my son, I will not hesitate to 
take the upright bar tandem on longer mileage rides once my guy is ready. I 
have plans for at least a 20-miler by end of summer. (Long being relative 
these days.) I suspect as I enter my 60s, if I have the luxury of an 
occasional long recreational ride, it could very well be with upright bars. 
Anyway, I don't really see the HHH as a regular century tandem, though no 
doubt it could easily accomplish one.

As I said about the drops, I think it hasn't dawned on the captains to try 
something else. It's not on the radar. It's not tradition. Look at the 
transition of Riv listers, many of whom probably went from drops, to drops 
with super tall stems, to uprights--and not necessarily because they were 
forced to due to ailment and/or age. And tires. Even though tandems 
probably benefit even more from wider tires, (and I would argue upright 
bars, too) you just don't see a lot of it in the club tandem world--the 
connotation being that fat tires and upright bars equal a not very serious 
ride with degraded performance characteristics. A Schwinn Twinn. That's a 
belief system tough to crack. That's why you should get an HHH and shatter 
some shibboleths and blow some minds!

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 7:50:39 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> Do not associate the term rally with the term speedster.  My experience 
> has been that there are more teams in the 80's than in their 20s, more in 
> their 70s than in their 30's and probably more in their 60's than in their 
> 40's.  My 26 X 1.75 tires may be wider than avg but do not attract much 
> attention.  However, I have not seen many captains with anything other than 
> drop bars.  These are not usually set below saddle height but allow a 
> variety of body and hand positions on three or four hour rides.
>
> People don't get into tandems until they have a positive single 
> experience, a strong relationship with good communication, and a good bit 
> of discretionary funds.  By then most are past racing, but not necessarily 
> past the thrill of a fast downhill.
>
> Michael
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Tom M]

Cannondale Tandem 29er comes with flattish bars, 2.1 inch tires, triple crank 
and is a blast to ride. DC potholes aren't much of a problem. I commute on a 
drop-bar road bike, but haven't felt the need for them on the tandem yet.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

Do not associate the term rally with the term speedster.  My experience has 
been that there are more teams in the 80's than in their 20s, more in their 
70s than in their 30's and probably more in their 60's than in their 40's. 
 My 26 X 1.75 tires may be wider than avg but do not attract much 
attention.  However, I have not seen many captains with anything other than 
drop bars.  These are not usually set below saddle height but allow a 
variety of body and hand positions on three or four hour rides.

People don't get into tandems until they have a positive single experience, 
a strong relationship with good communication, and a good bit of 
discretionary funds.  By then most are past racing, but not necessarily 
past the thrill of a fast downhill.

Michael

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 10:59:09 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I don't have a whole lot of tandem experience, but I am looking forward to 
> changing the captain's drop bars on my new-to-me Santana Vision (later 
> changed to Fusion? Anyway, similar 26" bike with fat tire capabilities) to 
> Albatross or similar upright bars. We've tested it enough for me to know 
> that I will much prefer the more upright position (my stoker being my tall 
> for his age six and a half year old). I had a similar dislike of the drops 
> on my 650b Follis. In fact, I think I will not only get more comfort with 
> the uprights, but also* more* control, with very little loss of speed, 
> especially when on the curves. Win win win! I suspect many of the captains 
> with drops ride them because that's what the bicycle came with and the 
> thought of changing them out never crossed their minds. I believe Grant has 
> suggested the lower profile Chocos for the captain and Boscos for the 
> stoker as being one good choice for this bicycle. The Jones bar is also 
> highly regarded on this list, and offers a few hand positions for long 
> rides. I would ask Rivendell directly about how it might work with drop 
> bars.
>
> Obviously the Riv tandem is not going to be a tandem rally speedster. It 
> is falling squarely in the upright Riv category from what I can tell--a 
> deluxe Schwinn Twinn is I think how Grant has referred to it, a family 
> style tandem. Whereas, other than the very low end, the think alike bikes 
> are the go fast, carbon, 11 speed, but with two seats. Even Santana only 
> has one fat tire offering these days, an aluminum single speed cruiser with 
> flat bars, 26" wheels, and belt drive for $3,000. Then the line goes right 
> to 700c racing derived bicycles. Give me an HHH any day.
>
> Long cables are of course not unique to Riv tandems. If there is a lot of 
> the run inside housing, might be worth it to try compressionless.
>
> Right now our main sync problem is the fact that, with the crank 
> shorteners, he is spinning a 100mm crank, vs. the 135 on his single, plus 
> just getting used to having to pedal when I pedal, vs. the Burley Piccolo 
> being independent. By the end of the second test ride, he seemed fine.
>
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 8:40:52 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> I have looked at the picture and the specs posted on hubbahubbha and find 
>> myself with three concerns.  First, I hope the bike can handle drop bars. 
>>  Since starting to ride a tandem 6 years ago my wife and I have done a 
>> couple of three day rallies every year.  I have no memory of seeing a 
>> tandem with upright captain bars, other than recumbents.  There may be 
>> a number of reasons for this but in any case all the captains I see, who 
>> are regular riders seem to prefer the added comfort & control of drop bars. 
>>  Second, the stoker compartment looks tight.  We spread our out 6 cm beyond 
>> what Santana & Co-Moion offer and than added Albatros bars.  Pat really 
>> likes the added space and not feeling like she is pressed up against my 
>> back.  Third, tandems create the worst possible case for shifting.  They 
>> have long cables that stretch a lot;  the captain & stoker may have 
>> difficulty coordinating pedal pressure during shifting; they require a 
>> higher hi gear because its easy to spin out and they require a lower low 
>> gear because they don't climb as effectively as a single.  Finally the 
>> captain and stoker often prefer different cadences making big jumps between 
>> gears hard to satisfy both riders.
>>
>> I have wanted to see RBW get into this market because the big players 
>>  make a lot of think alike bikes. 
>>
>> Michael 
>>
>> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 12:46:29 AM UTC-4, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>>>
>>> Tandem looks good.
>>>
>>> Rides good with the proper captain and stoker.
>>>
>>> Will and Roman can attest.
>>>
>>> Pictures proved that tandems are not slow up dirt roads (when you have 
>>> the proper captain and stoker)
>>> https://flic.kr/s/aHskCvrS8H
>>>
>>> Manny "The stoker makes no mistakes" Acosta
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[tarik saleh]

Manny,

That is a hell of a photo set.  Nice picture proving.

Cheers,

Tarik


On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:46 PM, Manuel Acosta <
manueljohnaco...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> Tandem looks good.
>
> Rides good with the proper captain and stoker.
>
> Will and Roman can attest.
>
> Pictures proved that tandems are not slow up dirt roads (when you have the
> proper captain and stoker)
> https://flic.kr/s/aHskCvrS8H
>
> Manny "The stoker makes no mistakes" Acosta
>
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http://tariksaleh.com
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Kieran J]

That's the way I see it. It's a fun and versatile all-rounder of a bike, 
not a traditional road-touring bike the way most tandems seem to be. That 
said, I do wonder how it would ride with some nice plump Compass Switchback 
Hills on it 

 >>I believe Grant has suggested the lower profile Chocos for the captain 
and Boscos for the stoker as being one good choice for this bicycle. 

I think it's actually the other way around, with the Chocos for the stoker. 
I could also see a moustache or albastache bar being great for the rear 
position. 

Personally, I don't know if I'll ever go back to drops on any of my bikes. 
It's funny - of all the bars I've tried, I found them to provide by far the 
least degree of control. Mind you, I did grow up riding MTBs rather than 
road bikes.

KJ


On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 10:59:09 AM UTC-4, Mark in Beacon wrote:
>
> I don't have a whole lot of tandem experience, but I am looking forward to 
> changing the captain's drop bars on my new-to-me Santana Vision (later 
> changed to Fusion? Anyway, similar 26" bike with fat tire capabilities) to 
> Albatross or similar upright bars. We've tested it enough for me to know 
> that I will much prefer the more upright position (my stoker being my tall 
> for his age six and a half year old). I had a similar dislike of the drops 
> on my 650b Follis. In fact, I think I will not only get more comfort with 
> the uprights, but also* more* control, with very little loss of speed, 
> especially when on the curves. Win win win! I suspect many of the captains 
> with drops ride them because that's what the bicycle came with and the 
> thought of changing them out never crossed their minds. I believe Grant has 
> suggested the lower profile Chocos for the captain and Boscos for the 
> stoker as being one good choice for this bicycle. The Jones bar is also 
> highly regarded on this list, and offers a few hand positions for long 
> rides. I would ask Rivendell directly about how it might work with drop 
> bars.
>
> Obviously the Riv tandem is not going to be a tandem rally speedster. It 
> is falling squarely in the upright Riv category from what I can tell--a 
> deluxe Schwinn Twinn is I think how Grant has referred to it, a family 
> style tandem. Whereas, other than the very low end, the think alike bikes 
> are the go fast, carbon, 11 speed, but with two seats. Even Santana only 
> has one fat tire offering these days, an aluminum single speed cruiser with 
> flat bars, 26" wheels, and belt drive for $3,000. Then the line goes right 
> to 700c racing derived bicycles. Give me an HHH any day.
>
> Long cables are of course not unique to Riv tandems. If there is a lot of 
> the run inside housing, might be worth it to try compressionless.
>
> Right now our main sync problem is the fact that, with the crank 
> shorteners, he is spinning a 100mm crank, vs. the 135 on his single, plus 
> just getting used to having to pedal when I pedal, vs. the Burley Piccolo 
> being independent. By the end of the second test ride, he seemed fine.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

['Mark in Beacon' via RBW Owners Bunch]

I don't have a whole lot of tandem experience, but I am looking forward to 
changing the captain's drop bars on my new-to-me Santana Vision (later 
changed to Fusion? Anyway, similar 26" bike with fat tire capabilities) to 
Albatross or similar upright bars. We've tested it enough for me to know 
that I will much prefer the more upright position (my stoker being my tall 
for his age six and a half year old). I had a similar dislike of the drops 
on my 650b Follis. In fact, I think I will not only get more comfort with 
the uprights, but also* more* control, with very little loss of speed, 
especially when on the curves. Win win win! I suspect many of the captains 
with drops ride them because that's what the bicycle came with and the 
thought of changing them out never crossed their minds. I believe Grant has 
suggested the lower profile Chocos for the captain and Boscos for the 
stoker as being one good choice for this bicycle. The Jones bar is also 
highly regarded on this list, and offers a few hand positions for long 
rides. I would ask Rivendell directly about how it might work with drop 
bars.

Obviously the Riv tandem is not going to be a tandem rally speedster. It is 
falling squarely in the upright Riv category from what I can tell--a deluxe 
Schwinn Twinn is I think how Grant has referred to it, a family style 
tandem. Whereas, other than the very low end, the think alike bikes are the 
go fast, carbon, 11 speed, but with two seats. Even Santana only has one 
fat tire offering these days, an aluminum single speed cruiser with flat 
bars, 26" wheels, and belt drive for $3,000. Then the line goes right to 
700c racing derived bicycles. Give me an HHH any day.

Long cables are of course not unique to Riv tandems. If there is a lot of 
the run inside housing, might be worth it to try compressionless.

Right now our main sync problem is the fact that, with the crank 
shorteners, he is spinning a 100mm crank, vs. the 135 on his single, plus 
just getting used to having to pedal when I pedal, vs. the Burley Piccolo 
being independent. By the end of the second test ride, he seemed fine.

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 8:40:52 AM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> I have looked at the picture and the specs posted on hubbahubbha and find 
> myself with three concerns.  First, I hope the bike can handle drop bars. 
>  Since starting to ride a tandem 6 years ago my wife and I have done a 
> couple of three day rallies every year.  I have no memory of seeing a 
> tandem with upright captain bars, other than recumbents.  There may be 
> a number of reasons for this but in any case all the captains I see, who 
> are regular riders seem to prefer the added comfort & control of drop bars. 
>  Second, the stoker compartment looks tight.  We spread our out 6 cm beyond 
> what Santana & Co-Moion offer and than added Albatros bars.  Pat really 
> likes the added space and not feeling like she is pressed up against my 
> back.  Third, tandems create the worst possible case for shifting.  They 
> have long cables that stretch a lot;  the captain & stoker may have 
> difficulty coordinating pedal pressure during shifting; they require a 
> higher hi gear because its easy to spin out and they require a lower low 
> gear because they don't climb as effectively as a single.  Finally the 
> captain and stoker often prefer different cadences making big jumps between 
> gears hard to satisfy both riders.
>
> I have wanted to see RBW get into this market because the big players 
>  make a lot of think alike bikes. 
>
> Michael 
>
> On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 12:46:29 AM UTC-4, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>>
>> Tandem looks good.
>>
>> Rides good with the proper captain and stoker.
>>
>> Will and Roman can attest.
>>
>> Pictures proved that tandems are not slow up dirt roads (when you have 
>> the proper captain and stoker)
>> https://flic.kr/s/aHskCvrS8H
>>
>> Manny "The stoker makes no mistakes" Acosta
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

I have looked at the picture and the specs posted on hubbahubbha and find 
myself with three concerns.  First, I hope the bike can handle drop bars. 
 Since starting to ride a tandem 6 years ago my wife and I have done a 
couple of three day rallies every year.  I have no memory of seeing a 
tandem with upright captain bars, other than recumbents.  There may be 
a number of reasons for this but in any case all the captains I see, who 
are regular riders seem to prefer the added comfort & control of drop bars. 
 Second, the stoker compartment looks tight.  We spread our out 6 cm beyond 
what Santana & Co-Moion offer and than added Albatros bars.  Pat really 
likes the added space and not feeling like she is pressed up against my 
back.  Third, tandems create the worst possible case for shifting.  They 
have long cables that stretch a lot;  the captain & stoker may have 
difficulty coordinating pedal pressure during shifting; they require a 
higher hi gear because its easy to spin out and they require a lower low 
gear because they don't climb as effectively as a single.  Finally the 
captain and stoker often prefer different cadences making big jumps between 
gears hard to satisfy both riders.

I have wanted to see RBW get into this market because the big players  make 
a lot of think alike bikes. 

Michael 

On Tuesday, June 21, 2016 at 12:46:29 AM UTC-4, Manuel Acosta wrote:
>
> Tandem looks good.
>
> Rides good with the proper captain and stoker.
>
> Will and Roman can attest.
>
> Pictures proved that tandems are not slow up dirt roads (when you have the 
> proper captain and stoker)
> https://flic.kr/s/aHskCvrS8H
>
> Manny "The stoker makes no mistakes" Acosta
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Manuel Acosta]

Tandem looks good.

Rides good with the proper captain and stoker.

Will and Roman can attest.

Pictures proved that tandems are not slow up dirt roads (when you have the 
proper captain and stoker)
https://flic.kr/s/aHskCvrS8H

Manny "The stoker makes no mistakes" Acosta

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Chris Burton]

We were there last Saturday (my wife bought a Hillborne) and I took the HHH 
around the building a few times with my kids on the back (one at a time). 
Very comfy. Rode like a bicycle. I liked it.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

And a brilliant use of a John's Irish strap!

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 1:39 PM, cyclotourist 
wrote:

> Here's the link: https://www.instagram.com/p/BGvQYc0LxKA/?taken-by=rivbike
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Daniel Jackson <
> daniel.seth.jack...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> New photo up on their Instagram feed. Check it out!
>>
>> --
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>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> David
>
> Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace
>
> "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal
>
>
>
>


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Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[cyclotourist]

Here's the link: https://www.instagram.com/p/BGvQYc0LxKA/?taken-by=rivbike

On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 6:48 AM, Daniel Jackson <
daniel.seth.jack...@gmail.com> wrote:

> New photo up on their Instagram feed. Check it out!
>
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Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace

"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Abcyclehank]

* that was suppose to be PRE-blog during initial design then photos from the 
factory when Will and another RBW employee visited.

Ryan

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Abcyclehank]

Grant has shared some early pics per blog with me and asked at that time for me 
not to share them. 
I second emailing Grant and he will send a link to the blog and keep you 
abreast of all details pertaining to the HHH.
He is very open to questions and even some suggestions but likely wants the 
input coming from the subgroup of potential buyers.  
As much as I love 99.9% of the content posted.  One or two posters may critique 
unnecessarily on a project that has been requested by customers for many moons.
Sincerely,
Ryan Hankinson
West Michigan

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Daniel Jackson]

New photo up on their Instagram feed. Check it out!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Kieran J]

Email Grant and get on the HHH mailing list. He's sending out updates 
almost every other day. Not sure the protocol with posting HHH clique stuff 
publicly ..

They've recently been doing some road/trail testing around Riv HQ. I think 
they aim to have some prototype demos built up soon.

KJ


On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:08:01 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
>  There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
> practical, fun tandem.
>
> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta 
> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes 
> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the 
> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>
> Michael
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Allingham II, Thomas J. (Retired Partner)]

I didn't see anything either. Can someone post them?

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 17, 2016, at 6:25 AM, Michael Hechmer 
> wrote:

Email. Pictures?  Not in my mailbox.  I'd love to see them.

Michael

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 10:14:38 PM UTC-4, Kieran J wrote:
I'm also seriously considering it when "Deposit Day" rolls around. The recent 
Size L pics Grant sent around look awesome!!
We *need* this bike to tow our 75lb Lab down to the lake for picnics ..

KJ


On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:08:01 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with GP 
and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too many 
tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means faster.   We 
ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly see that they are 
filled with more mature riders. open to a more comfortable ride, so I think 
there is an opportunity to expand the Riv philosophy to them.  Now the market 
is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion both of whom seem inclined to push the 
latest invention over common sense.  There are good custom builders who make 
very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, and no shortage of custom builders selling 
$20,000 CF, magnesium, and bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves 
a big window for a practical, fun tandem.

As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot day, 
we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared to be 
about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which are 
notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake them on 
the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta loose 30 
lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes away all four 
of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the electric motor on the 
back of their bike.  I almost felt better!

Michael

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Michael Hechmer]

Email. Pictures?  Not in my mailbox.  I'd love to see them.

Michael

On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 10:14:38 PM UTC-4, Kieran J wrote:
>
> I'm also seriously considering it when "Deposit Day" rolls around. The 
> recent Size L pics Grant sent around look awesome!!
> We *need* this bike to tow our 75lb Lab down to the lake for picnics ..
>
> KJ
>
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:08:01 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>>
>> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
>> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
>> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
>> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
>> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
>> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
>> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
>> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
>>  There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
>> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
>> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
>> practical, fun tandem.
>>
>> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
>> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
>> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
>> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
>> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta 
>> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes 
>> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the 
>> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>>
>> Michael
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem

[Kieran J]

I'm also seriously considering it when "Deposit Day" rolls around. The 
recent Size L pics Grant sent around look awesome!!
We *need* this bike to tow our 75lb Lab down to the lake for picnics ..

KJ


On Thursday, June 16, 2016 at 7:08:01 PM UTC-4, Michael Hechmer wrote:
>
> A recent posting on the Tandem at Hobbes List described an encounter with 
> GP and two Rivendell prototype tandems.  Fabulous.  There are still too 
> many tamdemistas riding on 28mm tires and mesmerized by lighter means 
> faster.   We ride a number of tandem rallies each summer and increasingly 
> see that they are filled with more mature riders. open to a more 
> comfortable ride, so I think there is an opportunity to expand the Riv 
> philosophy to them.  Now the market is dominated by Santana and Co-Motion 
> both of whom seem inclined to push the latest invention over common sense. 
>  There are good custom builders who make very ridable bikes, like Bilenky, 
> and no shortage of custom builders selling $20,000 CF, magnesium, and 
> bamboo bikes with electronic shifting.  That leaves a big window for a 
> practical, fun tandem.
>
> As an aside, during the recent Canadian Tandem Rally, on a blistering hot 
> day, we found ourselves struggling to stay up with a couple, who appeared 
> to be about 10 years older than us.  They were riding a recumbent, which 
> are notoriously slow going up hill and  I kept thinking I would overtake 
> them on the next short hill.  It never happened, and I thought I just gotta 
> loose 30 lbs..  When we got back to the Ramada and were putting our bikes 
> away all four of us looked exhausted.  Then I looked down and saw the 
> electric motor on the back of their bike.  I almost felt better!
>
> Michael
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell tandem question

[Bill Lindsay]

Send your email to both grant(at)rivbike.com and dave(at)rivbike.com and 
they will take care of you.  If Grant's email is busted, Dave is the one 
who will resolve that issue anyway.  A call would make sense if you want to 
be doubly-sure.  

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA

On Sunday, February 7, 2016 at 9:30:39 AM UTC-8, spru...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi. I read with interest the recent blug post about forward movement on 
> the Rivendell tandem project. Grant invited people to email him if they 
> wanted to be added to a list of interested parties, but he did not give his 
> email address. It used to be gr...@rivbike.com , but my 
> message to that address bounced back. The email directory for Rivendell 
> does not include an email link for Grant anymore either.
>
> Does anyone know of another way to be added to the tandem information list?
>
> Thanks,
> David Sprunger
> Fargo, ND
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem (30 of them, actually) in about one year.

[Kieran J]

Def potentially interested in a Riv tandem! 
I hope the sizing works out for me and the old lady.

KJ


On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 7:55:58 PM UTC-4, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

 New blug update with a tidbit about 30 tandems coming next Fall.  No 
 photos and no other information.

 Also, the Appaloosa splits.  What does that mean?  A Riv Coupled frame?




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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Tandem (30 of them, actually) in about one year.

[Joe Bernard]

Splits sounds like Grant found a way around the problem of shipping 
longbikes. Some time after the original Mystery Bikes were sold, he said on 
the Blug that a production version was off the table because they were too 
long for a standard bike box. Solution: Breakaway Longbike! 

I read somewhere that GP was involved in this project (can't find it 
now)..the saddle and cranks certainly reveal his influence. Ignore the 
lugged steel spec, whoever wrote the copy for Dahon was a little confused;

http://dahon.com/mainnav/folding-bikes/single-view/bike/tournado.html

On Sunday, July 26, 2015 at 4:55:58 PM UTC-7, Chris Lampe 2 wrote:

 New blug update with a tidbit about 30 tandems coming next Fall.  No 
 photos and no other information.

 Also, the Appaloosa splits.  What does that mean?  A Riv Coupled frame?




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