Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Joe Bernard]

With an electric motor! 藍

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 5:38:27 PM UTC-8 Doug H. wrote:

> Joe, we now all know you can only ride singletrack on a full suspension 
> bike with a dropper post nowadays...everything else is underbiking. Ha, I 
> write in jest. The Rivendell timeline is neat to see. Most of the names on 
> the list are fantastic names for bikes!
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:24:05 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Then there's the pre-Rivendell timeline which has an article in a 
>> Bridgestone catalogue by Chris Kostman about "underbiking"..he was riding 
>> an RB-1 with skinny slicks on singletrack. Which Grant design is a 
>> Hillibike? All of them! 
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:44:53 PM UTC-8 Slin wrote:
>>
>>> Yeah, I totally agree that the bikes have been categorized different 
>>> ways over the years. I quickly threw the spreadsheet together and thought I 
>>> was using the categories on the current rivbike.com - 'Roadish' , 
>>> 'Touring & Trailish', and 'Comboish - Country Bikes'.  The names are 
>>> different, but that's what I was thinking. Clicking through there, the 
>>> Atlantis and Appaloosa are in the 'Touring/Trailish' category.
>>>
>>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:02:04 AM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>>>
 Oh, this is exciting!
 I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes 
 and the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst 
 the Sam/Homer was a country bike.
 Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
 concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
 place, makes categorizing super hard.



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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Doug H.]

Joe, we now all know you can only ride singletrack on a full suspension 
bike with a dropper post nowadays...everything else is underbiking. Ha, I 
write in jest. The Rivendell timeline is neat to see. Most of the names on 
the list are fantastic names for bikes!

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 6:24:05 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Then there's the pre-Rivendell timeline which has an article in a 
> Bridgestone catalogue by Chris Kostman about "underbiking"..he was riding 
> an RB-1 with skinny slicks on singletrack. Which Grant design is a 
> Hillibike? All of them! 
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:44:53 PM UTC-8 Slin wrote:
>
>> Yeah, I totally agree that the bikes have been categorized different ways 
>> over the years. I quickly threw the spreadsheet together and thought I was 
>> using the categories on the current rivbike.com - 'Roadish' , 'Touring & 
>> Trailish', and 'Comboish - Country Bikes'.  The names are different, but 
>> that's what I was thinking. Clicking through there, the Atlantis and 
>> Appaloosa are in the 'Touring/Trailish' category.
>>
>> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:02:04 AM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>>
>>> Oh, this is exciting!
>>> I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes 
>>> and the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst 
>>> the Sam/Homer was a country bike.
>>> Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
>>> concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
>>> place, makes categorizing super hard.
>>>
>>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Joe Bernard]

Then there's the pre-Rivendell timeline which has an article in a 
Bridgestone catalogue by Chris Kostman about "underbiking"..he was riding 
an RB-1 with skinny slicks on singletrack. Which Grant design is a 
Hillibike? All of them! 

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 2:44:53 PM UTC-8 Slin wrote:

> Yeah, I totally agree that the bikes have been categorized different ways 
> over the years. I quickly threw the spreadsheet together and thought I was 
> using the categories on the current rivbike.com - 'Roadish' , 'Touring & 
> Trailish', and 'Comboish - Country Bikes'.  The names are different, but 
> that's what I was thinking. Clicking through there, the Atlantis and 
> Appaloosa are in the 'Touring/Trailish' category.
>
> On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:02:04 AM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:
>
>> Oh, this is exciting!
>> I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes and 
>> the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst the 
>> Sam/Homer was a country bike.
>> Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
>> concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
>> place, makes categorizing super hard.
>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Slin]

Yeah, I totally agree that the bikes have been categorized different ways 
over the years. I quickly threw the spreadsheet together and thought I was 
using the categories on the current rivbike.com - 'Roadish' , 'Touring & 
Trailish', and 'Comboish - Country Bikes'.  The names are different, but 
that's what I was thinking. Clicking through there, the Atlantis and 
Appaloosa are in the 'Touring/Trailish' category.

On Monday, December 12, 2022 at 3:02:04 AM UTC-8 brendonoid wrote:

> Oh, this is exciting!
> I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes and 
> the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst the 
> Sam/Homer was a country bike.
> Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
> concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
> place, makes categorizing super hard.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Alan Barnard]

Olivier Chetelat’s photos of the proto-Appaloosa are located here:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/olipop/8418423327/in/photostream/

On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 2:47:21 PM UTC-8 Chris L wrote:

> The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
> 2012'ish sounds about right.  
>
> My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
> completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
> allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
> completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  
>
> I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  
>
> [image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
>> to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>
>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
>> bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
>> Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
>> this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
>> of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>
>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
>>> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
>>> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
>>> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
>>> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
>>> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
>>> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
>>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
>>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
>>> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>>
 Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
 Standard, I think by '96.

 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
> today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
> out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
> some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
> addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
> relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past 
> my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Masa]

Jason, this is a really exciting idea! I appreciate your research, 
compiling and the handwriting chart from scratch. 
And Slin, it's amazing that you created the spreadsheet so detailed! I 
can't wait to see it is updated.
Masa
2022年12月12日月曜日 20:02:04 UTC+9 brendonoid:

> Oh, this is exciting!
> I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes and 
> the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst the 
> Sam/Homer was a country bike.
> Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
> concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
> place, makes categorizing super hard.
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[brendonoid]

Oh, this is exciting!
I think Grant has/had the all-rounder category between the hillibikes and 
the country bikes. So the Atlantis/Appaloosa was an all-rounder whilst the 
Sam/Homer was a country bike.
Unfortunately the nomenclature has been somewhat fluid along with the 
concepts of what certain models can and should do. Overlap all over the 
place, makes categorizing super hard.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Slin]

I started playing around with different ways to visualize it. Here's one 
using a spreadsheet:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1gu7_PQVDZn0iQtx81oHQ_X3mhDMcngiJK1AVxHleQ_Q/edit?usp=sharing

[image: Screenshot from 2022-12-11 21-05-52.png]

On Sunday, December 11, 2022 at 7:39:50 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Slin, that's a fun idea to do it as a family tree kind of infographic!  I 
> haven't gotten around to polishing this into a digital form like I meant 
> to, but with the holiday break coming up I might take the opportunity to 
> then, and am really liking this idea of doing it as a branched structure 
> based on successors  
>
> On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 7:14 PM Slin  wrote:
>
>> @Jason - this is really cool! I did a search and came across this because 
>> I was thinking about doing something very similar but also including when 
>> the models were discontinued and any lineage type relationships:
>>
>> Atlantis <-> Appaloosa 
>>
>> Glorius/Wilbury -> Betty Foy/Yves Gomez -> Cheviot -> Platypus
>>
>>
>> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:13:18 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Marty - those photoshops are amazing. 
>>>
>>> Tom - it's having the same effect on me; it's a problem. I am now in 
>>> search of a Rosco step thru in the 54/55 size. 
>>>
>>> On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 13:17:21 UTC-8 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>>
 This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes 
 me want *all-the-Rivs*!

 Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)

 On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:

> I'll have to check out that thread.
>
> As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of 
> orange shown in your photo here.  
>
> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
>> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the 
>> first diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two 
>> versions - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and 
>> another that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear 
>> dropouts. (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first 
>> mockups led to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who 
>> saw 
>> the posts here and wanted to explore different color combos and other 
>> details. It all happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a 
>> couple others along the way. If you look closely at the front tire 
>> markings, you can see how I kept track of the various mockups. For the 
>> record, here is the thread where these were revealed and all of this is 
>> discussed (passionately!):  
>>
>> DiagaHunq Discussion 
>> 
>>
>> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I 
>> owned one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had 
>> some 
>> damage. Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My 
>> current 
>> Clem H is all the Hunq I need now. 
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>>
>> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on 
>> the Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>>
>> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>>
>> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure 
>> who's bike this was. 
>> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>>
>> OK - this one was a stretch...
>> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>>
>> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the 
>> mid-tube.
>> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 
>>> 2010 on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Slin, that's a fun idea to do it as a family tree kind of infographic!  I
haven't gotten around to polishing this into a digital form like I meant
to, but with the holiday break coming up I might take the opportunity to
then, and am really liking this idea of doing it as a branched structure
based on successors

On Sun, Dec 11, 2022 at 7:14 PM Slin  wrote:

> @Jason - this is really cool! I did a search and came across this because
> I was thinking about doing something very similar but also including when
> the models were discontinued and any lineage type relationships:
>
> Atlantis <-> Appaloosa
>
> Glorius/Wilbury -> Betty Foy/Yves Gomez -> Cheviot -> Platypus
>
>
> On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:13:18 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Marty - those photoshops are amazing.
>>
>> Tom - it's having the same effect on me; it's a problem. I am now in
>> search of a Rosco step thru in the 54/55 size.
>>
>> On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 13:17:21 UTC-8 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>>
>>> This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes
>>> me want *all-the-Rivs*!
>>>
>>> Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>>
 I'll have to check out that thread.

 As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of
 orange shown in your photo here.

 On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke,
 Stewartstown PA wrote:

> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the
> first diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two
> versions - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and
> another that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear
> dropouts. (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first
> mockups led to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who 
> saw
> the posts here and wanted to explore different color combos and other
> details. It all happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a
> couple others along the way. If you look closely at the front tire
> markings, you can see how I kept track of the various mockups. For the
> record, here is the thread where these were revealed and all of this is
> discussed (passionately!):
>
> DiagaHunq Discussion
> 
>
> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I
> owned one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some
> damage. Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current
> Clem H is all the Hunq I need now.
>
> Marty
>
> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>
> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on
> the Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>
> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>
> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure
> who's bike this was.
> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>
> OK - this one was a stretch...
> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>
> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the
> mid-tube.
> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in
>> 2010 on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>
> --
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> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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> .
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Slin]

@Jason - this is really cool! I did a search and came across this because I 
was thinking about doing something very similar but also including when the 
models were discontinued and any lineage type relationships:

Atlantis <-> Appaloosa 

Glorius/Wilbury -> Betty Foy/Yves Gomez -> Cheviot -> Platypus


On Friday, December 3, 2021 at 3:13:18 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Marty - those photoshops are amazing. 
>
> Tom - it's having the same effect on me; it's a problem. I am now in 
> search of a Rosco step thru in the 54/55 size. 
>
> On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 13:17:21 UTC-8 Tom Goodmann wrote:
>
>> This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes me 
>> want *all-the-Rivs*!
>>
>> Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>> I'll have to check out that thread.
>>>
>>> As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of 
>>> orange shown in your photo here.  
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
>>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>>
 To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the 
 first diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two 
 versions - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and 
 another that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear 
 dropouts. (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first 
 mockups led to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who 
 saw 
 the posts here and wanted to explore different color combos and other 
 details. It all happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a 
 couple others along the way. If you look closely at the front tire 
 markings, you can see how I kept track of the various mockups. For the 
 record, here is the thread where these were revealed and all of this is 
 discussed (passionately!):  

 DiagaHunq Discussion 
 

 It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I 
 owned one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some 
 damage. Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current 
 Clem H is all the Hunq I need now. 

 Marty

 [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]

 FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on 
 the Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:

 [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]

 This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure 
 who's bike this was. 
 [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]

 OK - this one was a stretch...
 [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]

 And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the 
 mid-tube.
 [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]


 On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 
> 2010 on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio



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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Marty - those photoshops are amazing. 

Tom - it's having the same effect on me; it's a problem. I am now in search 
of a Rosco step thru in the 54/55 size. 

On Friday, 3 December 2021 at 13:17:21 UTC-8 Tom Goodmann wrote:

> This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes me 
> want *all-the-Rivs*!
>
> Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)
>
> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>
>> I'll have to check out that thread.
>>
>> As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of 
>> orange shown in your photo here.  
>>
>> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>>> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the 
>>> first diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two 
>>> versions - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and 
>>> another that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear 
>>> dropouts. (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first 
>>> mockups led to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who saw 
>>> the posts here and wanted to explore different color combos and other 
>>> details. It all happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a 
>>> couple others along the way. If you look closely at the front tire 
>>> markings, you can see how I kept track of the various mockups. For the 
>>> record, here is the thread where these were revealed and all of this is 
>>> discussed (passionately!):  
>>>
>>> DiagaHunq Discussion 
>>> 
>>>
>>> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I owned 
>>> one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some damage. 
>>> Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current Clem H 
>>> is all the Hunq I need now. 
>>>
>>> Marty
>>>
>>> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>>>
>>> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on the 
>>> Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>>>
>>> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>>>
>>> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure 
>>> who's bike this was. 
>>> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>>>
>>> OK - this one was a stretch...
>>> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>>>
>>> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the 
>>> mid-tube.
>>> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 
 2010 on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Tom Goodmann]

This thread is the best reading I've done this week, although it makes me 
want *all-the-Rivs*!

Tom (in Miami, where it's peak riding season)

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 9:37:13 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:

> I'll have to check out that thread.
>
> As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of 
> orange shown in your photo here.  
>
> On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
>> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the first 
>> diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two versions 
>> - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and another 
>> that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear dropouts. 
>> (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first mockups led 
>> to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who saw the posts 
>> here and wanted to explore different color combos and other details. It all 
>> happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a couple others along 
>> the way. If you look closely at the front tire markings, you can see how I 
>> kept track of the various mockups. For the record, here is the thread where 
>> these were revealed and all of this is discussed (passionately!):  
>>
>> DiagaHunq Discussion 
>> 
>>
>> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I owned 
>> one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some damage. 
>> Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current Clem H 
>> is all the Hunq I need now. 
>>
>> Marty
>>
>> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>>
>> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on the 
>> Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>>
>> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>>
>> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure who's 
>> bike this was. 
>> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>>
>> OK - this one was a stretch...
>> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>>
>> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the mid-tube.
>> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 2010 
>>> on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Chris L]

I'll have to check out that thread.

As a gray/orange Hunqapillar owner, I much prefer the darker shade of 
orange shown in your photo here.  

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 6:25:39 AM UTC-6 Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:

> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the first 
> diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. Two versions 
> - one that is like the production version we ended up with, and another 
> that had extended "mixte" like tubes that ended near the rear dropouts. 
> (That one sort of became the Bombadil ultimately.) These first mockups led 
> to more than 20 others, prompted by an email from Grant who saw the posts 
> here and wanted to explore different color combos and other details. It all 
> happened pretty fast. Here are mockups #1 and #2, and a couple others along 
> the way. If you look closely at the front tire markings, you can see how I 
> kept track of the various mockups. For the record, here is the thread where 
> these were revealed and all of this is discussed (passionately!):  
>
> DiagaHunq Discussion 
> 
>
> It was fun to be a small part of the history of this great bike. I owned 
> one for a short time, but it was way too small for me, and had some damage. 
> Looking back, those chainstays look ridiculously short! My current Clem H 
> is all the Hunq I need now. 
>
> Marty
>
> [image: DiagHunq1.jpg][image: DiagHunq2.jpg]
>
> FYI - to facilitate the mockups I was using a pic that was posted on the 
> Riv site somewhere - it was Jay's bike:
>
> [image: Jay_s_H.jpg]
>
> This one in orange and grey, with a cork lift handle idea. Not sure who's 
> bike this was. 
> [image: Hunqamarty 10.0.jpg]
>
> OK - this one was a stretch...
> [image: Hunqamarty 8.0.jpg]
>
> And a black & grey version I kind of liked. with graphics on the mid-tube.
> [image: Hunqamarty 21.0.jpg]
>
>
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:15:22 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 2010 
>> on Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer versio
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Joe Bernard]

Tentacles! I remember them being called that because I came up with it. 
Then Grant popped in here and said "they're tentacular!" 

Joe Bernard

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 8:13:30 AM UTC-8 lconley wrote:

> I bought what I think is a Mystery Bike from Rivendell, it hung around as 
> a shop bike for a number of years before they sold it - much longer 
> wheelbase, maybe it was a Mystery bike prototype. many photos before the 
> sale referred to it as the long bike:
> [image: tben-5_72e1d376-f37d-4286-8031-c2f5e0f30f2e_1600x.jpg]
> It had an Appaloosa head badge and Protovelo decal on it when it was sold 
> to me as an Protoveloosa. It is now a single speed:
> [image: 3.jpg]
>  I also have a diagatube Bombadil:
> [image: Capture.JPG]
>
> I built it up as a 3x7 touring bike - sorry about the bad picture:
> [image: IMG_0265 (2).JPG]
>
> Laing
> Two Rivendells with diagatubes and tentacles.
>
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 5:47:21 PM UTC-5 Chris L wrote:
>
>> The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
>> 2012'ish sounds about right.  
>>
>> My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
>> completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
>> allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
>> completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  
>>
>> I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  
>>
>> [image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
>> today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
>> out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
>> some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where 
>> each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
>> addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Oh - that was in 2010 of course.  

On Wednesday, December 1, 2021 at 7:25:39 AM UTC-5 Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:

> To satisify my own itch, I did a series of photoshop mockups of the first 
> diagatube Hunqapillars beginning Monday, April 5th at 7:59am. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Michael - they switched from the dual TT style to the diaga-tube in 2010 on 
Bombadils :)  So the diaga is the newer version 

On Tuesday, 30 November 2021 at 20:10:00 UTC-8 Michael Baquerizo wrote:

> any info regarding these two bombadils? asking because they're the same, 
> but different. and one is very close to that appa proto posted above.
>
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i=http%3A%2F%2Fbiketouringnews.com%2Fadvocacy-awareness%2Ffat-tire-pioneers%2F=AOvVaw25kPjnVkOVG8DFUipsAyrC=1638418047191000=images=vfe=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCPCKmoTdwfQCFQAdABAD
>
> and 
>
>
> https://www.google.com/url?sa=i=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Famisingh%2F8034138028=AOvVaw25kPjnVkOVG8DFUipsAyrC=1638418047191000=images=vfe=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCPCKmoTdwfQCFQAdABAJ
>
> gotta love the swooping diaga-tube.
> On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:02:57 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Oh wow, that's the shortest rear end and smallest size proto-Appa that 
>> I've seen!  At this rate, might just have to buy riv-wiki.com (it's 
>> available!).  Thanks for all the contributions. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, 30 November 2021 at 14:47:21 UTC-8 Chris L wrote:
>>
>>> The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
>>> 2012'ish sounds about right.  
>>>
>>> My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
>>> completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
>>> allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
>>> completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  
>>>
>>> I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  
>>>
>>> [image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
 go 
 before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
 what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
 and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  

 I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
 different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
 lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
 Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
 was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 

 I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
 omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
 (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
 think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
 underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
 Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
 yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
 available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 


  

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
> - 
> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
> have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider 
> them 
> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
> the 
> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
>>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
>>> today).  
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
>>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
>>> out 
>>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
>>> some 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Michael Baquerizo]

any info regarding these two bombadils? asking because they're the same, 
but different. and one is very close to that appa proto posted above.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i=http%3A%2F%2Fbiketouringnews.com%2Fadvocacy-awareness%2Ffat-tire-pioneers%2F=AOvVaw25kPjnVkOVG8DFUipsAyrC=1638418047191000=images=vfe=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCPCKmoTdwfQCFQAdABAD

and 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.flickr.com%2Fphotos%2Famisingh%2F8034138028=AOvVaw25kPjnVkOVG8DFUipsAyrC=1638418047191000=images=vfe=0CAsQjRxqFwoTCPCKmoTdwfQCFQAdABAJ

gotta love the swooping diaga-tube.
On Tuesday, November 30, 2021 at 11:02:57 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Oh wow, that's the shortest rear end and smallest size proto-Appa that 
> I've seen!  At this rate, might just have to buy riv-wiki.com (it's 
> available!).  Thanks for all the contributions. 
>
> On Tuesday, 30 November 2021 at 14:47:21 UTC-8 Chris L wrote:
>
>> The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
>> 2012'ish sounds about right.  
>>
>> My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
>> completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
>> allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
>> completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  
>>
>> I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  
>>
>> [image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
>> today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
>> out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
>> some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where 
>> each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
>> addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you see 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Oh wow, that's the shortest rear end and smallest size proto-Appa that I've 
seen!  At this rate, might just have to buy riv-wiki.com (it's 
available!).  Thanks for all the contributions. 

On Tuesday, 30 November 2021 at 14:47:21 UTC-8 Chris L wrote:

> The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
> 2012'ish sounds about right.  
>
> My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
> completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
> allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
> completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  
>
> I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  
>
> [image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
>> to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>
>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
>> bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
>> Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
>> this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
>> of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>
>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
>>> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
>>> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
>>> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
>>> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
>>> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
>>> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
>>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
>>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
>>> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>>
 Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
 Standard, I think by '96.

 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
> today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
> out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
> some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
> addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
> relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past 
> my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Chris L]

The Mystery Bike/Appaloosa happened shortly after I discovered RBW, so 
2012'ish sounds about right.  

My memory is that Grant put out feelers for 10 people to buy a new bike, 
completely sight unseen with no input (I don't remember if they were 
allowed to choose color) into the bike.  I don't recall if they were 
completes or F/F/H, but $4000 sticks in my mind as being the cost.  

I have several really good photos that were posted of those bikes.  

[image: Joe Appaloosa (5).jpg]

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:14:05 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
> to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
> bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
> Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
> this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
> of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>
>
>  
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
>> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
>> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
>> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
>> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
>> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
>> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
>> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
 as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
 veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
 moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
 upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  

 I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
 so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
 omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
 some 
 of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
 model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
 to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
 takes.  

 Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
 left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
 relevant; 
 I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
 ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
 research so far. 

  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]




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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Ted Durant]

A bit of clarification. The original three models, Road, All-Rounder, and 
Mountain, were intended to be of standard dimensions as drawn by Grant. 
They were built to-order, though, and they very quickly went from 
semi-custom to full custom as customers requested their own unique changes. 
It was partly out of frustration over that evolution that Grant, Waterford, 
and I decided to create Heron. The intent was that Heron frames would be 
the standard, no-options frames, built-to-stock, and it would allow 
Rivendell some room to increase prices and allow for customization of the 
Rivendell frames. Heron Bicycles was a joint venture between RBW, 
Waterford, and me. That distinguishes it from the San Marcos, which was 
solely the property of Soma. The Rambouillet and subsequent models built in 
Asia were a replacement for Heron, as Grant was unhappy with the economics 
of the Heron JV and with some inconsistency in the production by Waterford.

As noted elsewhere, the Long Low was added pretty early on, and you had 
Road Standard and Long Low as separate options.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee, WI, USA

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Philip Williamson]

I agree about the charming hand-made artifact-ness of the paper and ink 
version. It’s super clear and well designed. There’s lots of space to the 
sides for builder names or notes.

Philip
Sonoma County, Calif

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 8:00:47 PM UTC-8 Pam Bikes wrote:

> I love the drawing.  Please keep it in the digital version.  I connect 
> better w/handwritten, hand drawn.  More comprehensible to me.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 7:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Yeah good point about the Soma, if I'm going to mention Heron by the same 
>> logic that frame should be included. I debated that one also. 
>>
>> Redwood is a neat one, being a different name for the tallest sizes! I 
>> assume the distinction is some design difference (tubing?) to suit the 
>> extra big 65/68 sizes? 
>>
>> On Sat., Nov. 27, 2021, 4:15 p.m. Karl Wilcox,  wrote:
>>
>>> I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
>>> Cheers,
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged  wrote:
>>>
>>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
 as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
 veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
 moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
 upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  

 I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
 so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
 omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
 some 
 of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
 model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
 to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
 takes.  

 Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
 left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
 relevant; 
 I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
 ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
 research so far. 

  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]


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>>> 
>>> .
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Sofie C]

Love this Rivendell history, thanks so much for putting this together and 
sharing!

On Sunday, November 28, 2021 at 9:26:00 AM UTC-5 Steven Sweedler wrote:

> Ryan, I thought Riv was building customs from the begining. I had a 96 
> Road that was designed for 700 x 28 and had cantilever brakes The original 
> owner,who I bought it from, spoke of it as a custom build Steve
>
> On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 8:54 AM Ryan  wrote:
>
>> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  
>> and tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from Waterford 
>> and working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 and 
>> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road delivered 
>> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one 
>> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom  
>> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and Nobilette 
>> started. 2005 or so?
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and 
>>> all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, 
>>> Keith, and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this 
>>> thing. 
>>>
>>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, 
>>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking 
>>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back 
>>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders 
>>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding 
>>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.  
>>>
>>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice 
>>> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the 
>>> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
 between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
 Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
 ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a 
 custom 
 is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  

 Joe Bernard

 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Nice work, Jason!
>
> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting 
> a 
> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>
> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've 
> only ever seen two of them. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when 
>> the 
>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways 
>>> to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited 
>>> to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most 
>>> part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain 
>>> (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the 
>>> Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I 
>>> welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not 
>>> sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Steven Sweedler]

Ryan, I thought Riv was building customs from the begining. I had a 96 Road
that was designed for 700 x 28 and had cantilever brakes The original
owner,who I bought it from, spoke of it as a custom build Steve

On Sun, Nov 28, 2021 at 8:54 AM Ryan  wrote:

> Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  and
> tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from Waterford and
> working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 and
> they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road delivered
> 2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one
> of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom
> builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and Nobilette
> started. 2005 or so?
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and
>> all this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce,
>> Keith, and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this
>> thing.
>>
>> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom,
>> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking
>> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back
>> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders
>> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding
>> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.
>>
>> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice
>> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the
>> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line
>>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early
>>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's
>>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom
>>> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 Nice work, Jason!

 I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the
 LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a
 name added to express it as one of two road frames.

 As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've
 only ever seen two of them.

 Joe Bernard

 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom
> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration,
> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many
> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I
> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the
> MIT batch rolled in?
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a
>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
>> go
>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to
>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part,
>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.
>>
>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as
>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95
>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition?
>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road
>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all.
>>
>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I
>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome
>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I
>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either
>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and
>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure
>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting
>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>
>>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My
>>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or
>>> "mystery bike," which 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Ryan]

Customs...I feel Riv started mixing tubesets(Reynolds/Vitus/Columbus)  and 
tweaking geometry around 1998 when they were moving away from Waterford and 
working with Match. I think customs started with Joe Starck in 1999 and 
they added Curt Goodrich around 2000 or thereabouts. My 2000 Road delivered 
2001 was a Goodrich frame. With high demand they used other builders , one 
of them being Richard Sachs. Mark Nobilette has been their sole custom  
builder for a long time...but not sure when JS and CG stopped and Nobilette 
started. 2005 or so?

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:13:56 PM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all 
> this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith, 
> and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing. 
>
> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, 
> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking 
> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back 
> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders 
> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding 
> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.  
>
> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice 
> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the 
> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D 
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom 
>> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work, Jason!
>>>
>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>>>
>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've 
>>> only ever seen two of them. 
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
 Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
 with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
 were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
 missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
 MIT batch rolled in?  

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
> go 
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>
>
>  
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know 
>> it 
>> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
>> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
>> - 
>> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Pam Bikes]

I love the drawing.  Please keep it in the digital version.  I connect 
better w/handwritten, hand drawn.  More comprehensible to me.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 7:19:52 PM UTC-5 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Yeah good point about the Soma, if I'm going to mention Heron by the same 
> logic that frame should be included. I debated that one also. 
>
> Redwood is a neat one, being a different name for the tallest sizes! I 
> assume the distinction is some design difference (tubing?) to suit the 
> extra big 65/68 sizes? 
>
> On Sat., Nov. 27, 2021, 4:15 p.m. Karl Wilcox,  wrote:
>
>> I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
>> Cheers,
>> Karl
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged  wrote:
>>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
>>> upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>>> takes.  
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>>> research so far. 
>>>
>>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Yeah good point about the Soma, if I'm going to mention Heron by the same
logic that frame should be included. I debated that one also.

Redwood is a neat one, being a different name for the tallest sizes! I
assume the distinction is some design difference (tubing?) to suit the
extra big 65/68 sizes?

On Sat., Nov. 27, 2021, 4:15 p.m. Karl Wilcox,  wrote:

> I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
> Cheers,
> Karl
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged 
> wrote:
>
> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers,
>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then
>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards
>> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you
>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this
>> takes.
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I
>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant;
>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are
>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my
>> research so far.
>>
>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>
>>
>> --
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Karl Wilcox]

I am glad to see you got the ‘Redwood’ frame in there!
Cheers,
Karl

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 27, 2021, at 3:29 AM, Fullylugged  wrote:
> 
> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road Standard, 
> I think by '96.
> 
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
>> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then moved 
>> to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards of 100's 
>> of snapshots of these sites today).  
>> 
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so I 
>> wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out omissions 
>> or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some of these 
>> models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each model was 
>> made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition to the 
>> timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this takes.  
>> 
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I left 
>> Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; I 
>> might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are ones I 
>> have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my research 
>> so far. 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> 
> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[esoterica etc]

I would also include the San Marcos in the timeline! Made by Soma but
designed by Rivendell, it was in production from 2011 to about 2015.
Similar to the way the Bleriot was the "cheaper" MIT version of the Saluki,
I believe the San Marcos was the budget alternative to the A. Homer Hilsen.
I have a San Marcos and have ridden an AHH, and their ride qualities and
geometry are extremely similar.

~Mark
Raleigh, NC

On Sat, Nov 27, 2021 at 4:13 PM Jason Fuller  wrote:

> These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all
> this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith,
> and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing.
>
> I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom,
> prototype, and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking
> color-coding. It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back
> to Waterford a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders
> sprinkled in of course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding
> the start of the official custom program, I expect, as well.
>
> I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice
> will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the
> beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line
>> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early
>> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's
>> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom
>> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> Nice work, Jason!
>>>
>>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the
>>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a
>>> name added to express it as one of two road frames.
>>>
>>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've
>>> only ever seen two of them.
>>>
>>> Joe Bernard
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom
 Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration,
 with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many
 were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I
 missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the
 MIT batch rolled in?

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a
> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
> go
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part,
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as
> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95
> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition?
> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road
> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all.
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end.
>
>
>
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My
>> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or
>> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it
>> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying
>> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
>> -
>> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID
>> have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider 
>> them
>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current
>> long chainstay, longer 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

These are great tweaks, I am updating my draft paper copy as we go and all 
this will be included in the digital version - thanks Joe, Bruce, Keith, 
and Joel!  I'll be sure to credit the RBWOB in the footnotes of this thing. 

I'll try to think of a way to graphically represent semi-custom, prototype, 
and production from each other. For the builder I am thinking color-coding. 
It'll kind of show the Waterford era, into the Toyo era, back to Waterford 
a bit more before mostly going MIT. With other builders sprinkled in of 
course. Should be a neat effect.  It's worthwhile adding the start of the 
official custom program, I expect, as well.  

I think small at-time-of-order tweaks such as braze-ons and paint choice 
will be outside the scope of this infographic - certainly part of the 
beauty of Rivs is that they cannot be fully described by such means :D 

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 12:55:02 UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
> between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
> Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
> ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom 
> is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> Nice work, Jason!
>>
>> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
>> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
>> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>>
>> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
>> ever seen two of them. 
>>
>> Joe Bernard
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to 
 go 
 before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
 what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
 and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  

 I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
 different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
 lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
 Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
 was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 

 I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
 omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
 (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
 think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
 underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
 Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
 yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
 available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 


  

 On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
> comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
> "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
> was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
> customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were 
> - 
> with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
> have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider 
> them 
> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
> the 
> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>>> Readers, as 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Joe Bernard]

Disclaimer added: I'm speaking of strictly production models. The line 
between "production" and "custom" was always a little fuzzy in the early 
Waterford days; and even now my "custom Rivendell" hews tightly to Grant's 
ideas of what a frame should be. For my purposes in the discussion a custom 
is any Riv frame where you were able to change a spec at purchase time.  

Joe Bernard

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:58:09 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Nice work, Jason!
>
> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>
> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
> ever seen two of them. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to the current home of rivbike.com 
>> - I've perused probably upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites 
>> today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of 
>> you so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point 
>> out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
>> some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where 
>> each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in 
>> addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: 
>> I left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
>> relevant; I might be missing some Rosco's but 

Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

['Joel S' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Very nice Jason, I had 2 Roads, one in ‘97 (a 53cm)the other in ‘2000 (a 
54cm which was probablt right) . An AR in ‘99 or so and a Custom in ‘2002 
or so (a 56cm that Grant measured me for). Also a Saluki (56cm but too bid) 
 then 2 Bleriots, (55cm’s) one was going to live in Brasil.   I bought a 
Ram frame before that but never built it up realizing after the Saluki it 
would be too big (hence the Bleriot).  I bought an Atlantis 2 summers ago 
but sold it quickly and got a Hillborne.  I have a ‘54cm Saluki frame 
coming in and then the last of my 2 Bleriot frames will go up for sale. 
 Rivendells just seem to be good for my back so I stay with them. Douglas 
Brooks many years ago saw a post I had made on a bike forum about my back 
and steered me to Rivendell and helped me over the years a great deal.  
Nice to see the timeline. 
On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:04:14 PM UTC-5 Fullylugged wrote:

> Yes the Road was semi custom, while the standard had fixed sizes.  The 
> supplier of dropouts changed between them and the TT went from level to 
> upsloped.  The HT could be normal or extended on the Road but was only 
> extended on the standard. The extended HT continued in the later 
> Rambouillet too, which descended from the Long Low. 
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 27, 2021, at 1:58 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Nice work, Jason!
>
>
> I believe the only difference between Road and Road Standard is the 
> LongLow became available, which prompted the original Road model getting a 
> name added to express it as one of two road frames. 
>
> As I recall the Mystery Bike was offered and sold to 10 people, I've only 
> ever seen two of them. 
>
> Joe Bernard
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 11:33:31 AM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
>> Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
>> with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
>> were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
>> missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
>> MIT batch rolled in?  
>>
>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 
>>> 3/10 to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
>>> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
>>> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
>>> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>>>
>>> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as 
>>> different bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 
>>> lineup, was the Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? 
>>> Should I include this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road 
>>> was the cheapest of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>>>
>>> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
>>> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
>>> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
>>> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
>>> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
>>> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
>>> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
>>> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>>>
>>>
>>>  
>>>
>>> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>>>
 Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My 
 comment is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or 
 "mystery bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it 
 was 'sort of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying 
 customers - exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - 
 with no design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID 
 have an actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
 insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
 long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like 
 the 
 bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.


 On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv 
>> Readers, as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via 
>> archive.org (it was veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was 
>> rivendellbicycles.com, then moved to 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

My understanding of the Mystery bike so far (all lifted from Tom 
Allingham's Flickr):  Produced in 2012 (?) as an Appaloosa exploration, 
with the swoopy mid-stays and fabricated by Nobilette. Any idea how many 
were produced, and whether I got my production year right?  And am I 
missing gen 1 Appaloosas, ie did they happen between '12 and '16 when the 
MIT batch rolled in?  

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 11:14:05 UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
> to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
> before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
> what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
> and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  
>
> I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
> bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
> Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
> this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
> of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 
>
> I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
> omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
> (heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
> think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
> underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
> Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
> yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
> available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 
>
>
>  
>
> On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:
>
>> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
>> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
>> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
>> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
>> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
>> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
>> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
>> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
>> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
>> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>>
>>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>>
>>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>>
 I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
 as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
 veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
 moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
 upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  

 I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
 so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
 omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of 
 some 
 of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
 model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
 to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
 takes.  

 Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
 left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be 
 relevant; 
 I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
 ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
 research so far. 

  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]




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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jason Fuller]

Cheers for the feedback! Yeah, it was pretty wild to go from about a 3/10 
to a 6/10 overnight on my Rivendell knowledge (still a good ways to go 
before I'm any sort of expert).  Of course, my "knowledge" is limited to 
what I've found either in the reader or on the website for the most part, 
and there's a lot that's not really covered in those spots.  

I wasn't sure whether to consider the Road and Road Standard as different 
bikes, but I'll separate them out yeah.  So then on the '95 lineup, was the 
Road a semi-custom while the AR and Mountain (Expedition? Should I include 
this alt name?) were set geometry?  From memory the Road was the cheapest 
of the three so I was a bit confused by that all. 

I'll research more on the Gen 1 Appaloosa and Mystery Bike because I 
omitted them out of unawareness rather than conscious decision. I welcome 
(heck, I beg for) any insight or leads you may have in this regard.  I 
think I'd also like to highlight in this timeline when models either 
underwent significant geometry changes or changed builders (AHH and 
Atlantis being obvious ones).  This might turn into a full wiki, not sure 
yet, depends how bored I get this winter I guess!  I have webhosting 
available, just need to sort some stuff out on that end. 


 

On Saturday, 27 November 2021 at 10:58:35 UTC-8 iamkeith wrote:

> Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment 
> is that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery 
> bike," which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort 
> of' a prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - 
> exactly the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no 
> design input from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an 
> actual model name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them 
> insignificant either, as they were the experience that led to the current 
> long chainstay, longer top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the 
> bosco.  Kind of key to understanding the whole evolution.
>
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:
>
>> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
>> Standard, I think by '96.
>>
>> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>>
>>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably 
>>> upwards of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>>
>>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>>> takes.  
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>>> research so far. 
>>>
>>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[iamkeith]

Good effort.  I bet that was fun, digesting so much at once.  My comment is 
that I don't think I'd discount the original Appaloosa or "mystery bike," 
which is different from the current Appaloosa.  I know it was 'sort of' a 
prototype, but they were produced for specific, paying customers - exactly 
the way early Roads, All Rounders and Mountains were - with no design input 
from the buyers and - unlike those others - they DID have an actual model 
name and head badge.  I don't think I'd consider them insignificant either, 
as they were the experience that led to the current long chainstay, longer 
top tube models and the big swept-back bars like the bosco.  Kind of key to 
understanding the whole evolution.


On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 3:29:08 AM UTC-8 Fullylugged wrote:

> Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
> Standard, I think by '96.
>
> On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, 
>> as well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
>> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
>> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
>> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>>
>> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you 
>> so I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
>> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
>> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
>> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
>> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
>> takes.  
>>
>> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
>> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
>> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
>> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
>> research so far. 
>>
>>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Fullylugged]

Nice Jason, and needed.  The Road was followed quickly by the Road 
Standard, I think by '96.

On Saturday, November 27, 2021 at 1:45:44 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so 
> I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline - it's happening!

[Jared Wilson]

Nice work Jason.
On Friday, November 26, 2021 at 11:45:44 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I spent the afternoon and evening trawling the full set of Riv Readers, as 
> well as old copies of the Rivendell website via archive.org (it was 
> veloworks.com/rivendell first, then it was rivendellbicycles.com, then 
> moved to the current home of rivbike.com - I've perused probably upwards 
> of 100's of snapshots of these sites today).  
>
> I don't have nearly as deep of experience with Rivendell as some of you so 
> I wanted to run this timeline by y'all and see if you can point out 
> omissions or errors in my timeline. There are a lot of permutations of some 
> of these models of course - I have pretty detailed notes about where each 
> model was made (including many which went through a few shops) in addition 
> to the timeline, which I plan to include in whatever final form this 
> takes.  
>
> Please let me know if you see something missing or incorrect!  Note: I 
> left Protovelo's out because I'm not considering prototypes to be relevant; 
> I might be missing some Rosco's but only the Bubbe 51 and Road 55.5 are 
> ones I have any info on. The step-thru version seems to have snuck past my 
> research so far. 
>
>  [image: PXL_20211127_062150509.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Jason Fuller]

Funny that Rosco's are likely coming back (per Will) in one form or another 
to use up the Hillibike 650b fork mishap inventory. Being a huge clearance, 
segmented fork I have to assume the rest of the frame would be a little 
different as well. 

On Wednesday, 15 April 2020 09:50:56 UTC-7, Jason Fuller wrote:
>
> Right, I did know that but had forgot. Nonetheless, it seemed like an 
> awfully practical addition to the lineup - I feel that there's a huge gap 
> in the affordable TIG lineup between the Clem and the Roadini, where 
> something akin to the Surly Pack Rat (but better executed with the latest 
> Grant geom) that can hit that ~$900 price point would fit so nicely. I feel 
> like there will be something in that role in the next couple years?
>
> On Saturday, 11 April 2020 23:39:27 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>> Rosco Bubbe was a project to blow through a stack of extra forks they 
>> had. I don't think you'll ever see those frames again. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Jason Fuller]

Right, I did know that but had forgot. Nonetheless, it seemed like an 
awfully practical addition to the lineup - I feel that there's a huge gap 
in the affordable TIG lineup between the Clem and the Roadini, where 
something akin to the Surly Pack Rat (but better executed with the latest 
Grant geom) that can hit that ~$900 price point would fit so nicely. I feel 
like there will be something in that role in the next couple years?

On Saturday, 11 April 2020 23:39:27 UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Rosco Bubbe was a project to blow through a stack of extra forks they had. 
> I don't think you'll ever see those frames again. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Joe Bernard]

Rosco Bubbe was a project to blow through a stack of extra forks they had. I 
don't think you'll ever see those frames again. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Jason Fuller]

I never know when to believe that a model is truly retired, as it seems 
some pop back into existence for a new run after some time away. For 
instance, if a fresh crop of Roscoe (high TT) dropped, I'd probably have to 
get one, but I have no idea if that will happen or not. 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Bruce Herbitter]

There are still enough old timers around to put that together, I’m sure.  What 
it it probably show is that if you see a Rivendell bike you like, it’s better 
to scrape the money together and get one sooner rather than later. Models come 
and models go based on multiple factors.

Tailwinds!

Sent from my iPad

> On Apr 10, 2020, at 9:42 AM, Raymond Galang  wrote:
> 
> 
> It would be interesting to see a column for when it was retired. (if 
> available)
> 
>> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:58:27 AM UTC-7, Marty Gierke, 
>> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources of 
>> interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This 
>> information is subject to change at any time as new information is 
>> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this 
>> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive, 
>> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on 
>> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website) 
>> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed 
>> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using it's 
>> production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some bikes 
>> took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and overlaps 
>> are endless, so this list only captures each model that was uniquely named 
>> and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs, prototypes or 
>> collaborations with other companies are included. (The one exception being 
>> HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes to come.) There is 
>> no information about the quantity of each model produced. Some were very 
>> short lived or limited production, others have remained in production for 
>> many years. Likewise, variations in where in the world and by whom each 
>> model was built complicates the timeline. This is a group-sourced database. 
>> Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome. 
>> 
>> 
>> Model   YearRR Issue 
>>BLUG BLAHG
>> 
>> Road19940 
>> 
>> All Rounder   19940 
>> 
>> Mountain Expedition   1994   0 
>> 
>> Long Low   1996   8 
>> 
>> Cyclo-cross1996   8 
>> 
>> Heron 1998  11 
>> 
>> Atlantis   2000  18 
>> 
>> Rambouillet 2001   24 
>> 
>> Quickbeam 2002   27 
>> 
>> Romulus 2002   28 
>> 
>> Redwood200228 
>> 
>> Saluki 2004   35 
>> 
>> Glorius2006   37 
>> 
>> Wilbury   2006   37 
>> 
>> Bleriot 2006   
>> 37 
>> 
>> A Homer Hilsen2006  38 
>> 
>> Legolas   2007   39 
>> 
>> Bombadil 2009   41 
>> 
>> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41 
>> 
>> Roadeo2010   42 
>>   
>> Simpleone2011
>>  December 2010 
>> 
>> Betty Foy 2011   43  
>>March 2011 
>> 
>> Yves Gomez 2011   43 
>> 
>> Hunqapillar   2011   43 
>> 
>> Appaloosa2012
>>January 2012 
>> 
>> Cheviot 2014 
>> 
>> Clem Smith (Clementine)   201544 
>>March 2015 
>> 
>> Roscoe Bubbe  2016 
>> 
>> Hubbuhubbuh2017 
>> 
>> L. Roadini 2017 
>> 
>> Frank Jones Sr. 2018 
>> 
>> Gus Boots-Willsen 2018   
>>September 14, 2018
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Raymond Galang]

It would be interesting to see a column for when it was retired. (if 
available)

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:58:27 AM UTC-7, Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources of 
> interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This 
> information is subject to change at any time as new information is 
> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this 
> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive, 
> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on 
> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website) 
> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed 
> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using 
> it's production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some 
> bikes took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and 
> overlaps are endless, so this list only captures each model that was 
> uniquely named and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs, 
> prototypes or collaborations with other companies are included. (The one 
> exception being HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes 
> to come.) There is no information about the quantity of each model 
> produced. Some were very short lived or limited production, others have 
> remained in production for many years. Likewise, variations in where in the 
> world and by whom each model was built complicates the timeline. This is a 
> group-sourced database. Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome. 
>
>
> *Model   YearRR 
> IssueBLUG BLAHG*
>
> Road19940 
>
> All Rounder   19940 
>
> Mountain Expedition   1994   0 
>
> Long Low   1996   8 
>
> Cyclo-cross1996   8 
>
> Heron 1998  11 
>
> Atlantis   2000  
> 18 
>
> Rambouillet 2001   24 
>
> Quickbeam 2002   27 
>
> Romulus 2002   28 
>
> Redwood200228 
>
> Saluki 2004   
> 35 
>
> Glorius2006   
> 37 
>
> Wilbury   2006   
> 37 
>
> Bleriot 2006   
> 37 
>
> A Homer Hilsen2006  38 
>
> Legolas   2007   
> 39 
>
> Bombadil 2009   41 
>
> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41 
>
> Roadeo2010   
> 42 
>   
> Simpleone
> 2011 December 2010 
>
> Betty Foy 2011   
> 43 March 2011 
>
> Yves Gomez 2011   43 
>
> Hunqapillar   2011   
> 43 
>
> Appaloosa
> 2012   January 2012 
>
> Cheviot 2014 
>
> Clem Smith (Clementine)   2015
> 44March 2015 
>
> Roscoe Bubbe  2016 
>
> Hubbuhubbuh2017 
>
> L. Roadini 2017 
>
> Frank Jones Sr. 2018 
>
> Gus Boots-Willsen 2018
>   September 14, 2018 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[tc]

Hey John,
Do you still have your 62 Saluki?  I have read up on the Saluki, which 
seems to be a precursor to -- and essentially 650b-only version of -- the 
Homer.  I'm curious, since you have no doubt ridden and/or owned a Homer or 
two, what are your thoughts comparing a 62 Saluki to an equal size 700c 
Homer?  Also, what is your PBH?  Thanks!

Tom

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 2:06:40 PM UTC-4, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> Great list. Brings back memories! 
>
> My 62cm Saluki was the first one assembled by RBW in 2005. Mark wanted to 
> build an in-house/staff bike before working on customer's orders, just to 
> get a feel for the new model. I happily volunteered. It is still my daily 
> commuter.
>
> We have big stack of donated Readers at Rivelo that we loan out as part of 
> our shop library. When I went to RR 35 to check on the first Saluki 
> mention, as listed here in Mary's post, I noticed that the original owner 
> of this particular copy was none other thanMartin Gierke!
>
> John at Rivelo in Portland
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Martin Gierke]

That's kismet right there John! I sold a bunch of my originals years ago. I
can't recall who too, but they found a good home in more ways than one.

Marty

On Mon, Apr 29, 2019 at 2:06 PM John A. Bennett  wrote:

> Great list. Brings back memories!
>
> My 62cm Saluki was the first one assembled by RBW in 2005. Mark wanted to
> build an in-house/staff bike before working on customer's orders, just to
> get a feel for the new model. I happily volunteered. It is still my daily
> commuter.
>
> We have big stack of donated Readers at Rivelo that we loan out as part of
> our shop library. When I went to RR 35 to check on the first Saluki
> mention, as listed here in Mary's post, I noticed that the original owner
> of this particular copy was none other thanMartin Gierke!
>
> John at Rivelo in Portland
>
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:58:27 AM UTC-7, Marty Gierke,
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources
>> of interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This
>> information is subject to change at any time as new information is
>> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this
>> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive,
>> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on
>> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website)
>> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed
>> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using
>> it's production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some
>> bikes took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and
>> overlaps are endless, so this list only captures each model that was
>> uniquely named and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs,
>> prototypes or collaborations with other companies are included. (The one
>> exception being HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes
>> to come.) There is no information about the quantity of each model
>> produced. Some were very short lived or limited production, others have
>> remained in production for many years. Likewise, variations in where in the
>> world and by whom each model was built complicates the timeline. This is a
>> group-sourced database. Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome.
>>
>>
>> *Model   YearRR
>> IssueBLUG BLAHG*
>>
>> Road19940
>>
>> All Rounder   19940
>>
>> Mountain Expedition   1994   0
>>
>> Long Low   1996   8
>>
>> Cyclo-cross1996   8
>>
>> Heron 1998
>> 11
>>
>> Atlantis   2000
>> 18
>>
>> Rambouillet 2001   24
>>
>> Quickbeam 2002   27
>>
>> Romulus 2002   28
>>
>> Redwood200228
>>
>> Saluki 2004
>> 35
>>
>> Glorius2006
>> 37
>>
>> Wilbury   2006
>> 37
>>
>> Bleriot
>> 2006   37
>>
>> A Homer Hilsen2006  38
>>
>> Legolas   2007
>> 39
>>
>> Bombadil 2009
>> 41
>>
>> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41
>>
>> Roadeo2010
>> 42
>>
>> Simpleone
>> 2011 December 2010
>>
>> Betty Foy 2011
>> 43 March 2011
>>
>> Yves Gomez 2011   43
>>
>> Hunqapillar   2011
>> 43
>>
>> Appaloosa
>> 2012   January 2012
>>
>> Cheviot 2014
>>
>> Clem Smith (Clementine)   2015
>> 44March 2015
>>
>> Roscoe Bubbe  2016
>>
>> Hubbuhubbuh2017
>>
>> L. Roadini 2017
>>
>> Frank Jones Sr. 2018
>>
>> Gus Boots-Willsen 2018
>>   September 14, 2018
>>
>>
> --
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> 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[John A. Bennett]

Marty, not Mary. Sorry, Martin. 

On Monday, April 29, 2019 at 11:06:40 AM UTC-7, John A. Bennett wrote:
>
> Great list. Brings back memories! 
>
> My 62cm Saluki was the first one assembled by RBW in 2005. Mark wanted to 
> build an in-house/staff bike before working on customer's orders, just to 
> get a feel for the new model. I happily volunteered. It is still my daily 
> commuter.
>
> We have big stack of donated Readers at Rivelo that we loan out as part of 
> our shop library. When I went to RR 35 to check on the first Saluki 
> mention, as listed here in Mary's post, I noticed that the original owner 
> of this particular copy was none other thanMartin Gierke!
>
> John at Rivelo in Portland
>
>  
>
>
> On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:58:27 AM UTC-7, Marty Gierke, 
> Stewartstown PA wrote:
>>
>> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources 
>> of interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This 
>> information is subject to change at any time as new information is 
>> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this 
>> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive, 
>> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on 
>> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website) 
>> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed 
>> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using 
>> it's production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some 
>> bikes took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and 
>> overlaps are endless, so this list only captures each model that was 
>> uniquely named and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs, 
>> prototypes or collaborations with other companies are included. (The one 
>> exception being HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes 
>> to come.) There is no information about the quantity of each model 
>> produced. Some were very short lived or limited production, others have 
>> remained in production for many years. Likewise, variations in where in the 
>> world and by whom each model was built complicates the timeline. This is a 
>> group-sourced database. Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome. 
>>
>>
>> *Model   YearRR 
>> IssueBLUG BLAHG*
>>
>> Road19940 
>>
>> All Rounder   19940 
>>
>> Mountain Expedition   1994   0 
>>
>> Long Low   1996   8 
>>
>> Cyclo-cross1996   8 
>>
>> Heron 1998  
>> 11 
>>
>> Atlantis   2000  
>> 18 
>>
>> Rambouillet 2001   24 
>>
>> Quickbeam 2002   27 
>>
>> Romulus 2002   28 
>>
>> Redwood200228 
>>
>> Saluki 2004   
>> 35 
>>
>> Glorius2006   
>> 37 
>>
>> Wilbury   2006   
>> 37 
>>
>> Bleriot 
>> 2006   37 
>>
>> A Homer Hilsen2006  38 
>>
>> Legolas   2007   
>> 39 
>>
>> Bombadil 2009   
>> 41 
>>
>> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41 
>>
>> Roadeo2010   
>> 42 
>>   
>> Simpleone
>> 2011 December 2010 
>>
>> Betty Foy 2011   
>> 43 March 2011 
>>
>> Yves Gomez 2011   43 
>>
>> Hunqapillar   2011   
>> 43 
>>
>> Appaloosa
>> 2012   January 2012 
>>
>> Cheviot 2014 
>>
>> Clem Smith (Clementine)   2015
>> 44March 2015 
>>
>> Roscoe Bubbe  2016 
>>
>> Hubbuhubbuh2017 
>>
>> L. Roadini 2017 
>>
>> Frank 

[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[John A. Bennett]

Great list. Brings back memories! 

My 62cm Saluki was the first one assembled by RBW in 2005. Mark wanted to 
build an in-house/staff bike before working on customer's orders, just to 
get a feel for the new model. I happily volunteered. It is still my daily 
commuter.

We have big stack of donated Readers at Rivelo that we loan out as part of 
our shop library. When I went to RR 35 to check on the first Saluki 
mention, as listed here in Mary's post, I noticed that the original owner 
of this particular copy was none other thanMartin Gierke!

John at Rivelo in Portland

 


On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 11:58:27 AM UTC-7, Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources of 
> interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This 
> information is subject to change at any time as new information is 
> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this 
> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive, 
> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on 
> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website) 
> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed 
> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using 
> it's production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some 
> bikes took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and 
> overlaps are endless, so this list only captures each model that was 
> uniquely named and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs, 
> prototypes or collaborations with other companies are included. (The one 
> exception being HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes 
> to come.) There is no information about the quantity of each model 
> produced. Some were very short lived or limited production, others have 
> remained in production for many years. Likewise, variations in where in the 
> world and by whom each model was built complicates the timeline. This is a 
> group-sourced database. Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome. 
>
>
> *Model   YearRR 
> IssueBLUG BLAHG*
>
> Road19940 
>
> All Rounder   19940 
>
> Mountain Expedition   1994   0 
>
> Long Low   1996   8 
>
> Cyclo-cross1996   8 
>
> Heron 1998  11 
>
> Atlantis   2000  
> 18 
>
> Rambouillet 2001   24 
>
> Quickbeam 2002   27 
>
> Romulus 2002   28 
>
> Redwood200228 
>
> Saluki 2004   
> 35 
>
> Glorius2006   
> 37 
>
> Wilbury   2006   
> 37 
>
> Bleriot 2006   
> 37 
>
> A Homer Hilsen2006  38 
>
> Legolas   2007   
> 39 
>
> Bombadil 2009   41 
>
> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41 
>
> Roadeo2010   
> 42 
>   
> Simpleone
> 2011 December 2010 
>
> Betty Foy 2011   
> 43 March 2011 
>
> Yves Gomez 2011   43 
>
> Hunqapillar   2011   
> 43 
>
> Appaloosa
> 2012   January 2012 
>
> Cheviot 2014 
>
> Clem Smith (Clementine)   2015
> 44March 2015 
>
> Roscoe Bubbe  2016 
>
> Hubbuhubbuh2017 
>
> L. Roadini 2017 
>
> Frank Jones Sr. 2018 
>
> Gus Boots-Willsen 2018
>   September 14, 2018 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Tom Allingham]

I do have one.  I used to have a list of some of the original buyers, but
not sure I can find it.  Maybe they'd rather stay anonymous, anyway.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 4:26 PM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Aah, I forgot about that one..I saw it there. That's a nice bike!
>
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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Joe Bernard]

"tentacular"

Which was my word! Sort of. I said they looked like tentacles, then Grant put 
his Grantness on it 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Fullylugged]

Ah yes! The bike with 'tentacular stays".

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[MCT]

Riv Chica (sp) Warrior won the custom bike that was based upon a drawing of 
those who purchased either $250 or $300 (I forget the exact dollar amount). 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[dougP]

Didn't "rivchicawarrior" in Minneapolis get one?  I don't know her real 
name.

dougP

On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 at 1:26:27 PM UTC-7, Joe Bernard wrote:
>
> Aah, I forgot about that one..I saw it there. That's a nice bike!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Joe Bernard]

Aah, I forgot about that one..I saw it there. That's a nice bike!

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Joe Bernard]

One mystery is where all those bikes went. I think Pudge has one; beyond that I 
don't think I've ever seen another Mystery Bike. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Tom Allingham]

There were 10 Mystery Bikes built -- I don't know if that qualifies as a 
custom or an actual photo-ish model.  There were certainly a bunch of posts 
on the Blog about those bikes, and they were instrumental in Grant's 
thinking about long chain stays in many subsequent models.  I could go find 
the Blue posts if you want to include the Mystery Bikes on this sheet.

On Wednesday, September 19, 2018 at 2:58:27 PM UTC-4, Marty Gierke, 
Stewartstown PA wrote:
>
> A continuing conversation about models, variations, names and resources of 
> interest related to Rivbike models from 1994 to present day. This 
> information is subject to change at any time as new information is 
> discovered and new models introduced. Resources used to develop this 
> timeline have come from several sources: the Rivendell Reader Archive, 
> (available on the main page of this group) the BLUG archive, (available on 
> the Rivendell website) Grant's BLAHG, (available on the Rivendell website) 
> periodic emails from Rivendell and member/owner recollection. Dates listed 
> for each model reflect first mention or introduction of the model using 
> it's production name, not necessarily when it was delivered to owners. Some 
> bikes took longer to develop and reach owners than others. Variations and 
> overlaps are endless, so this list only captures each model that was 
> uniquely named and produced in some quantity. No customs, one-offs, 
> prototypes or collaborations with other companies are included. (The one 
> exception being HERON, which set the stage for many of the named Rivbikes 
> to come.) There is no information about the quantity of each model 
> produced. Some were very short lived or limited production, others have 
> remained in production for many years. Likewise, variations in where in the 
> world and by whom each model was built complicates the timeline. This is a 
> group-sourced database. Corrections or missing detail fill-ins are welcome. 
>
>
> *Model   YearRR 
> IssueBLUG BLAHG*
>
> Road19940 
>
> All Rounder   19940 
>
> Mountain Expedition   1994   0 
>
> Long Low   1996   8 
>
> Cyclo-cross1996   8 
>
> Heron 1998  11 
>
> Atlantis   2000  
> 18 
>
> Rambouillet 2001   24 
>
> Quickbeam 2002   27 
>
> Romulus 2002   28 
>
> Redwood200228 
>
> Saluki 2004   
> 35 
>
> Glorius2006   
> 37 
>
> Wilbury   2006   
> 37 
>
> Bleriot 2006   
> 37 
>
> A Homer Hilsen2006  38 
>
> Legolas   2007   
> 39 
>
> Bombadil 2009   41 
>
> Samuel Hillborne  2009   41 
>
> Roadeo2010   
> 42 
>   
> Simpleone
> 2011 December 2010 
>
> Betty Foy 2011   
> 43 March 2011 
>
> Yves Gomez 2011   43 
>
> Hunqapillar   2011   
> 43 
>
> Appaloosa
> 2012   January 2012 
>
> Cheviot 2014 
>
> Clem Smith (Clementine)   2015
> 44March 2015 
>
> Roscoe Bubbe  2016 
>
> Hubbuhubbuh2017 
>
> L. Roadini 2017 
>
> Frank Jones Sr. 2018 
>
> Gus Boots-Willsen 2018
>   September 14, 2018 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[islaysteve]

I updated the Bleriot info that I had added yesterday with colors: 
Turquoise & Cream, and added a link to cyclofiends's Bleriot page.  This 
caused the row to expand to two lines.  If that is a problem, please feel 
free to change it.  I also didn't know how to rename the link.  Thanks, 
Steve


On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 1:40:55 PM UTC-4, Roger wrote:
>
> I added a note that Appaloosa was first available in March of 2016. 
>
> I think Appaloosa was, like the various iterations of the name Roscoe 
> Bubbe/Boscoe Rubbe, a name that was floating around for awhile waiting to 
> be paired with a bike concept that was going to move forward into 
> production.The original use of the name in print predated its use as what 
> we now know as Appaloosa by several years.
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Roger]

I added a note that Appaloosa was first available in March of 2016. 

I think Appaloosa was, like the various iterations of the name Roscoe 
Bubbe/Boscoe Rubbe, a name that was floating around for awhile waiting to 
be paired with a bike concept that was going to move forward into 
production.The original use of the name in print predated its use as what 
we now know as Appaloosa by several years.

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Thanks Bob. Looking good, although the sheet shoes for only a moment, then 
goes blank. I'll try again later.  

On Sunday, September 23, 2018 at 9:26:41 AM UTC-4, Bob B wrote:
>
> I added links to brochures for Clem and Chev and a link to the Bubbe blog. 
> AIso added alternating row colors and some other formatting tweaks to make 
> it easier to look at.
>
> Bob B.
> Brooklyn, NY
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Bob B]

I added links to brochures for Clem and Chev and a link to the Bubbe blog. 
AIso added alternating row colors and some other formatting tweaks to make 
it easier to look at.

Bob B.
Brooklyn, NY

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Agree - I'll plug everything in to the sheet tomorrow and we can keep 
things rolling in the thread.  

On Thursday, September 20, 2018 at 12:04:15 PM UTC-4, Justin, Oakland wrote:
>
> Maybe just use this thread as a change log for the google sheet?
>
> -J
>

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Justin, Oakland]

Maybe just use this thread as a change log for the google sheet?

-J

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Marty Gierke, Stewartstown PA]

Thanks Tom, I can't access the file at work, but will take a look at home 
later. Sounds like a good solution. 

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[RBW] Re: Rivendell Timeline

[Tom Wyland]

>
> Here's a sheet 
> that
>  
> can be edited by anyone with the link.  Knock yourself out.  It works like 
> excel and saves automatically.
>

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JRuMAwuQ-Rc6bQXCBmfkmXA9jMMF5zBdBIyUOmkruYM/edit?usp=sharing
 

>  
>

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