[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Jay]

I wanted to circle back and close out initial impressions on my Roadini.  I 
used it on a road ride with my friend today.  I put on the 2nd wheelset, 
that has Vittoria Corsa Pro 30mm tires.  My friend is faster and when we 
ride together he dials it back, and I push harder than I usually do, and it 
works out and we have good rides.  I was worried that the extra weight (4-5 
pounds) and more upright posture would hold be back, so I warned him in 
advance.  I felt really comfortable on the entire 2.5 ride, including a 
headwind on our way back.  I used the drops quite a bit, in part because 
they're very comfortable.  I felt really good and was pleasantly surprised 
that we probably had our fastest average on those roads.  Well done Leo!

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 1:33:55 PM UTC-5 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but 
> there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini on F1 Track ride report

[Anthony Holden]

That sounds like a total blast! I think it speaks well of an event when you 
can see riders of all styles, abilities, and ages coming together to have a 
good time. Love that Roadini. The Safety Pizza and snazzy bar tape 
complement it so well.

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 1:37:05 PM UTC-7 Mike Packard wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> We have a Formula 1 track in Austin called Circuit of the Americas and on 
> many Tuesdays they have a bike night. Last night was the first one of the 
> season. 
>
> The track is about a 3.36 mile loop with 1 very steep (11%) uphill (and 
> corresponding steep downhill). The pavement is so smooth and free of 
> debris, in certain places it makes a satisfying sticky-grippy sound as the 
> tires roll. There is a bypass for the big hill if one does not want to do 
> it every lap.  
>
> Aside from the novelty of riding on an F1 race track, the really special 
> thing about it is it's just nice to ride somewhere without having a single 
> thought about cars or having to stop for any reason. There's so much space. 
> Everyone can ride at the pace they want. There are some really fun slight 
> descent sections that are a blast to pedal hard and get going really fast 
> under my own power (i.e. not just hill induced). Or just toodle around with 
> your legs outstretched singing out loud.
>
> I brought my 57 Roadini and had a lovely time. This time was neat because 
> my friend brought his 8-year-old twins who'd never been before. I was 
> impressed they did the big downhill (I wouldn't have been brave enough at 
> that age.)
>
> Definitely worth checking out if you're within striking range of Austin, 
> especially before it gets too hot.
>
> Mike 
>
> https://circuitoftheamericas.com/bike-night/
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Richard Rose]

Patrick, I humbly suggest that the Clem (and apparently Roadini) “liveliness & smoothness” you reference & that I can attest to is due to geometry rather than the tubing spec. As I am typing this I am recalling that Richard Sachs for a long time not only refused to use tubing stickers but did not even like to talk about tubing selections. When asked which tubes he used his frequent response was “the right ones”. This of course was prior to the “Pego Richie” tubing era. I distinctly remember my Clem L test ride, several years after selling my Sachs. In spite of the radically different position of the Clem my very first thought was “I’ve got my Sachs back”.Sent from my iPhoneOn Mar 15, 2024, at 9:42 PM, Patrick Moore  wrote:Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you. The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my (2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt." Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple 450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is hugely overbuilt, while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems). Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road was too stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape with gel 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Josh (BertoBerg)]

Hi Jay-

Lovin’ the build! Thanks for sharing your impressions. The orange paint 
with the green bar tape looks great. 

I just put 32mm Corsa Pros on my Waterford Homer. I’ve only ever ridden it 
on 38mm+ gravel tires so I’m super excited to feel what it’s like on a more 
road-oriented tire.

Have fun out there!

Josh
Seattle, WA

On Friday, March 15, 2024 at 6:42:04 PM UTC-7 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for 
> you. The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.
>
> Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that 
> with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect 
> ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my 
> (2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt." 
> Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple 
> 450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I 
> immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out 
> stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on 
> the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is *hugely* 
> overbuilt, 
> while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has 
> slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems). 
>
> Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the 
> Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks 
> made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't 
> notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the 
> Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.
>
> Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the 
> Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout 
> and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter 
> tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that 
> the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter 
> tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again 
> and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness 
> and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road *was* too 
> stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that 
> replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.
>
>
>
> Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:
> *The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of 
> things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross 
> Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love 
> it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much 
> lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit 
> issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth, 
> maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up 
> to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the 
> cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little 
> suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an 
> option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime 
> the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly 
> streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails 
> where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter 
> the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated 
> way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I 
> recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.  
> Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went 
> where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line 
> predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift 
> with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was 
> very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two 
> gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable 
> using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and 
> the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my 
> road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch 
> below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs 
> discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does 
> not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim 
> brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape 
> with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up 
> is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel 
> placement with 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Patrick Moore]

Nice Roadini, lovely build, and I'm glad it has turned out so well for you.
The Roadini certainly gets high praise from high-mileage riders.

Roadini:Fargo:Cross Check: interesting observations. One might thing that
with fat, low pressure tires the frame and fork won't materially affect
ride smoothness, but I had a somewhat similar experience when I replaced my
(2010??) steel Fargo with the current 2016 Matthews "road bike for dirt."
Both take 60s with fenders, both had the same ultra-extra-light-and-supple
450-gram 60 mm Big Ones on the same Velocity Blunt SS rims, but I
immediately noticed that with these wheels, the Matthews smoothed out
stutter bumps and felt definitely smoother than the same wheels/tires on
the Fargo. The Fargo is overbuilt of course, and the fork is *hugely*
overbuilt,
while the Matthews is built of OS but thinwall tubing with a fork that has
slender, nicely "French curve" legs (discs; nope, no problems).

Meandering on re: Fargo: I had a second wheelset with ~33 mm Kojaks; the
Fargo handled -- well, not like a Rivendell, but decently; the 1.35 Kojaks
made it quicker in turns but didn't harm stability, at least, I didn't
notice it. But really, the Big Ones rolled much better on pavement than the
Kojaks, decent tho' the Kojaks are.

Back to the Roadini: I've been told by several people, talking about the
Roadeo, when I was thinking of getting one, that it had tubing too stout
and stiff for good road bike feel. And doesn't the Roadini have stouter
tubing yet? So to hear such praise for the Roadini tells me, I think, that
the difference between stout, stiff tubing and thinwall, normal diameter
tubing is by no means the main factor in smoothness and "liveliness." Again
and again, experienced riders praise the low-budget Clem for its liveliness
and smoothness. And yet, that 2003 Rivendell Curt custom Road *was* too
stiff, compared to the thinner wall, normal gauge Matthews clone that
replaced it -- my quads proved it. Upshot: I don't understand all this.



Long ago on the thread, Jay  wrote:
*The Ride: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch of
things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly Cross
Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I love
it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was much
lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).  Minor fit
issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so smooth,
maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on the Fargo up
to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed out the
cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a little
suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as an
option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and anytime
the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, squirly
streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the trails
where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it.  Enter
the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it accelerated
way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from what I
recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was moving.
Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just went
where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line
predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift
with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was
very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two
gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable
using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and
the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my
road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch
below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs
discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does
not need discs at all (where I live/ride).  I'm so happy to have a rim
brake bike that fits 43mm tires.  The bars (Whiskey 12F) and 3mm bar tape
with gel pad under was perfect for my hands.  I like cush, and this set up
is really good (for me).  The mechanic dialled in the wrap and gel
placement with these hoods.  The 30F/32R gearing is perfect for the
steepest hills where this bike will be ridden.  I've went on long enough so
I'll stop there.  Word of the day - "smooth" :-)*


Patrick Moore, grimly bottom-trimming in ABQ, NM.

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[RBW] Re: Roadini on F1 Track ride report

[Mike Packard]

Tom: Thanks. It's this one: 
https://crustbikes.com/collections/grips-bartape/products/serfas-woven-bar-tape?variant=39334814679130

John: Thanks. The track is about 3.36 miles to do the full loop. 

mike
On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 8:41:06 PM UTC-5 John Rinker wrote:

> That's very cool, Mike. The promo video really captures how much fun it 
> must be to ride those 20 turns, and it looks like there are some good 
> swimmin' holes in which to cool off!  How long is the track? 
>
> Thanks for sharing. 
>
> Cheers, John
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 3:05:13 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:
>
>> Love the bar tape. Sounds like a good time.
>> Tom in Alexandria, VA
>>
>> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 4:37:05 PM UTC-4 mrg...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy,
>>>
>>> We have a Formula 1 track in Austin called Circuit of the Americas and 
>>> on many Tuesdays they have a bike night. Last night was the first one of 
>>> the season. 
>>>
>>> The track is about a 3.36 mile loop with 1 very steep (11%) uphill (and 
>>> corresponding steep downhill). The pavement is so smooth and free of 
>>> debris, in certain places it makes a satisfying sticky-grippy sound as the 
>>> tires roll. There is a bypass for the big hill if one does not want to do 
>>> it every lap.  
>>>
>>> Aside from the novelty of riding on an F1 race track, the really special 
>>> thing about it is it's just nice to ride somewhere without having a single 
>>> thought about cars or having to stop for any reason. There's so much space. 
>>> Everyone can ride at the pace they want. There are some really fun slight 
>>> descent sections that are a blast to pedal hard and get going really fast 
>>> under my own power (i.e. not just hill induced). Or just toodle around with 
>>> your legs outstretched singing out loud.
>>>
>>> I brought my 57 Roadini and had a lovely time. This time was neat 
>>> because my friend brought his 8-year-old twins who'd never been before. I 
>>> was impressed they did the big downhill (I wouldn't have been brave enough 
>>> at that age.)
>>>
>>> Definitely worth checking out if you're within striking range of Austin, 
>>> especially before it gets too hot.
>>>
>>> Mike 
>>>
>>> https://circuitoftheamericas.com/bike-night/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini on F1 Track ride report

[John Rinker]

That's very cool, Mike. The promo video really captures how much fun it 
must be to ride those 20 turns, and it looks like there are some good 
swimmin' holes in which to cool off!  How long is the track? 

Thanks for sharing. 

Cheers, John

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 3:05:13 PM UTC-7 Tom M wrote:

> Love the bar tape. Sounds like a good time.
> Tom in Alexandria, VA
>
> On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 4:37:05 PM UTC-4 mrg...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> We have a Formula 1 track in Austin called Circuit of the Americas and on 
>> many Tuesdays they have a bike night. Last night was the first one of the 
>> season. 
>>
>> The track is about a 3.36 mile loop with 1 very steep (11%) uphill (and 
>> corresponding steep downhill). The pavement is so smooth and free of 
>> debris, in certain places it makes a satisfying sticky-grippy sound as the 
>> tires roll. There is a bypass for the big hill if one does not want to do 
>> it every lap.  
>>
>> Aside from the novelty of riding on an F1 race track, the really special 
>> thing about it is it's just nice to ride somewhere without having a single 
>> thought about cars or having to stop for any reason. There's so much space. 
>> Everyone can ride at the pace they want. There are some really fun slight 
>> descent sections that are a blast to pedal hard and get going really fast 
>> under my own power (i.e. not just hill induced). Or just toodle around with 
>> your legs outstretched singing out loud.
>>
>> I brought my 57 Roadini and had a lovely time. This time was neat because 
>> my friend brought his 8-year-old twins who'd never been before. I was 
>> impressed they did the big downhill (I wouldn't have been brave enough at 
>> that age.)
>>
>> Definitely worth checking out if you're within striking range of Austin, 
>> especially before it gets too hot.
>>
>> Mike 
>>
>> https://circuitoftheamericas.com/bike-night/
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini on F1 Track ride report

['Tom M' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Love the bar tape. Sounds like a good time.
Tom in Alexandria, VA

On Wednesday, March 13, 2024 at 4:37:05 PM UTC-4 mrg...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> We have a Formula 1 track in Austin called Circuit of the Americas and on 
> many Tuesdays they have a bike night. Last night was the first one of the 
> season. 
>
> The track is about a 3.36 mile loop with 1 very steep (11%) uphill (and 
> corresponding steep downhill). The pavement is so smooth and free of 
> debris, in certain places it makes a satisfying sticky-grippy sound as the 
> tires roll. There is a bypass for the big hill if one does not want to do 
> it every lap.  
>
> Aside from the novelty of riding on an F1 race track, the really special 
> thing about it is it's just nice to ride somewhere without having a single 
> thought about cars or having to stop for any reason. There's so much space. 
> Everyone can ride at the pace they want. There are some really fun slight 
> descent sections that are a blast to pedal hard and get going really fast 
> under my own power (i.e. not just hill induced). Or just toodle around with 
> your legs outstretched singing out loud.
>
> I brought my 57 Roadini and had a lovely time. This time was neat because 
> my friend brought his 8-year-old twins who'd never been before. I was 
> impressed they did the big downhill (I wouldn't have been brave enough at 
> that age.)
>
> Definitely worth checking out if you're within striking range of Austin, 
> especially before it gets too hot.
>
> Mike 
>
> https://circuitoftheamericas.com/bike-night/
>
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

Velo Orange also makes a 31.8 removable clamp quill stem that works pretty
well, I have one of my AHH.. but I like your solution as well!

https://velo-orange.com/collections/quill-stems/products/quill-stem-with-removable-faceplate-31-8mm?variant=52981508999

On Fri, Mar 8, 2024 at 4:13 PM Collin A  wrote:

> Jay,
>
> Looks awesome! The dark gold and celeste/seafoam bar tape is a combo I
> didn't think would look good, but I'm a fan!
>
> If you want a more svelte headset solution you can try one of these out:  
> innicycle
> - Threadless Conversion Headset™ 
>
> I used one on an old trek conversion years ago and it worked great.
>
> Collin in Bezerkely
>
> On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 3:34:52 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> I think I finally landed on a saddle, and stem.  I've been trying to find
>> a more comfortable saddle on all bikes for a while now.  I tried the C17 on
>> my Salsa and it was very good.  Bought one in orange for the Roadini and I
>> think it looks decent.  Two 1.5hr rides and can confirm it's comfortable.
>> I ordered a -17 degree stem as I'm using 31.8 bars and a stem adaptor, and
>> knew where I wanted the bars located and this stem worked out well.
>> Hopefully this is it for a while!
>>
>> If I could go back I would change a few things aesthetically, but not the
>> parts themselves -- bike rides really nice and I feel good during and after
>> the ride.
>>
>> [image: Roadini 1.jpeg]
>>
>>
>> [image: Roadini 2.jpeg]
>> On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 11:41:45 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire
>>> clearance (if any)?
>>>
>>> I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found
>>> someone selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works
>>> surprisingly well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but
>>> since I'm getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with
>>> that.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this
 week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm
 shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for
 on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I
 want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars
 forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).

 Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and
 patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after
 good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out
 for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and
 accessories).

 *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm
 happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially
 wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape;
 maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods
 with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something
 different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame.
 This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade
 darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it
 gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like
 sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to
 use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).

 *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos
 below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really
 liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on
 this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they
 measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in
 the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a
 bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on
 today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add
 though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm
 fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is
 faster than me (more to come on this!).

 *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole
 bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the
 Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC,
 and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride,
 was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight).
 Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so
 smooth, maybe 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Collin A]

Jay,

Looks awesome! The dark gold and celeste/seafoam bar tape is a combo I 
didn't think would look good, but I'm a fan!

If you want a more svelte headset solution you can try one of these out:  
innicycle 
- Threadless Conversion Headset™ 

I used one on an old trek conversion years ago and it worked great.

Collin in Bezerkely

On Friday, March 8, 2024 at 3:34:52 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> I think I finally landed on a saddle, and stem.  I've been trying to find 
> a more comfortable saddle on all bikes for a while now.  I tried the C17 on 
> my Salsa and it was very good.  Bought one in orange for the Roadini and I 
> think it looks decent.  Two 1.5hr rides and can confirm it's comfortable. 
>  I ordered a -17 degree stem as I'm using 31.8 bars and a stem adaptor, and 
> knew where I wanted the bars located and this stem worked out well. 
>  Hopefully this is it for a while!
>
> If I could go back I would change a few things aesthetically, but not the 
> parts themselves -- bike rides really nice and I feel good during and after 
> the ride.
>
> [image: Roadini 1.jpeg]
>
>
> [image: Roadini 2.jpeg]
> On Monday, February 12, 2024 at 11:41:45 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire 
>> clearance (if any)?
>>
>> I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found someone 
>> selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works surprisingly 
>> well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but since I'm 
>> getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with that.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this 
>>> week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm 
>>> shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for 
>>> on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I 
>>> want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars 
>>> forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).
>>>
>>> Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and 
>>> patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after 
>>> good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out 
>>> for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and 
>>> accessories).
>>>
>>> *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm 
>>> happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially 
>>> wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape; 
>>> maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods 
>>> with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something 
>>> different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame. 
>>>  This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade 
>>> darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it 
>>> gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like 
>>> sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to 
>>> use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).
>>>
>>> *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos 
>>> below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really 
>>> liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on 
>>> this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they 
>>> measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in 
>>> the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a 
>>> bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on 
>>> today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add 
>>> though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm 
>>> fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is 
>>> faster than me (more to come on this!).
>>>
>>> *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole 
>>> bunch of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the 
>>> Surly Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, 
>>> and I love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, 
>>> was much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight). 
>>>  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so 
>>> smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on 
>>> the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed 
>>> out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a 
>>> little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as 
>>> an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Piaw Na]

Any chance you can post a picture of the rear brake and the tire clearance 
(if any)?

I've been experimenting with the Ass Saver Win Wing Gravel (found someone 
selling them on ebay for $10), and I have to say that it works surprisingly 
well. Easy-on Easy-off. Won't protect your BB bearings but since I'm 
getting around 25K miles on the BB bearings anyway I'm fine with that.

On Sunday, February 11, 2024 at 11:01:38 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> The build is complete!  This is iteration 1a.  1b will occur later this 
> week when I get a new seat post, with 0 setback; and a different stem, 10mm 
> shorter and less rise (that should be very close to the fit I'm looking for 
> on this bike...saddle not at the end of the max line on the rails, as I 
> want it around 5mm closer, then up 1-2mm, and I want to rotate the bars 
> forward a bit to get a better hand position on the hoods).
>
> Shout out to C Cycles in Montreal, Quebec (Canada).  Very helpful and 
> patient with me (e.g., getting the bar tape and gel pad dialled in after 
> good discussion).  For any Canadian's out there, definitely check them out 
> for your Riv needs (and thoughtful selection of other bikes, components and 
> accessories).
>
> *Colour*: It was a difficult call between this and Sergio Green.  I'm 
> happy with my choice in the end.  I like the gum hoods, though I initially 
> wanted the black/silver and thought would go well with brown bar tape; 
> maybe in a future iteration.  I didn't like the look of these gum hoods 
> with black bar tape, and I've always had black, so I wanted something 
> different that compliments the hoods and looks nice against the frame. 
>  This Fizik tape was the best (to me) of what I had looked at.  A shade 
> darker would have been good, but this colour is growing on me.  When it 
> gets a bit dirty and I think it will improve!  I bet the crank would like 
> sweet in silver...I'll leave that for a future iteration, as I wanted to 
> use what I already owned (I ticked this box in spades).
>
> *Build*: I wont list out everything as most are clear from the photos 
> below.  Wheels are handbuilt; I've had a set of these previously and really 
> liked them.  I had the tires already (GKSS 43mm) and they were great on 
> this initial ride (mainly paved, with some gravel that was ride-able); they 
> measure 42.2, and there was plenty more room on the front but not much in 
> the back for anything larger, but these were fine.  I had DT shifters on a 
> bike 10 years ago and really enjoyed using them, and I really liked them on 
> today's ride.  I'll save the rest of the parts for below.  I will add 
> though that I have a second wheel set that I'm going to set up with 30mm 
> fast rubberier road rides to see if I can keep up with my buddy who is 
> faster than me (more to come on this!).
>
> *The Ride*: like wow!  So much to say, I'm going to forget a whole bunch 
> of things I thought of during the 2hr ride.  I'll compare to the Surly 
> Cross Chek I had over a year ago and my Salsa Fargo (replaced the CC, and I 
> love it for unpaved).  Carrying the bike upstairs for the first ride, was 
> much lighter than I thought (I have zero complaints with the weight). 
>  Minor fit issues aside (soon to be resolved, hopefully), the ride was so 
> smooth, maybe the smoothest bike I've ever had.   I had these tires on 
> the Fargo up to now, and over the same surfaces the Roadini really smoothed 
> out the cracks in the pavement, as well as the trails (I felt like I had a 
> little suspension).  One of the reasons I initially looked at this bike as 
> an option for a 3rd bike was that the Fargo with 43mm for winter and 
> anytime the road bike wouldn't cut it, was not very enjoyable (harsh, 
> squirly streeing, sluggish).  With 2.2's it is amazing and I love it on the 
> trails where I live, but as an all-road / distance bike, I didn't enjoy it. 
>  Enter the Roadini.  When I stood up to sprint or climb up a hill, it 
> accelerated way better than the Fargo, and a bit better from the CC from 
> what I recall.  I was, again, pleasantly surprised with how fast I was 
> moving.  Cornering was predictable and neither sluggish or squirly, it just 
> went where I wanted to go with minimal input...while holding its line 
> predictably.  The DT shifters were fun.  A couple of times I tried to shift 
> with the brake lever and remembered that's a different bike!  Shifting was 
> very light touch and I quickly realized this, as I would easily shift two 
> gears when not wanting to...by the end of the ride I felt 75% comfortable 
> using them (and this will only improve).  Brake levers felt very good, and 
> the braking power was also very good.  I have Ultergra R8000 brakes on my 
> road bike and they are amazing (power and modulation).  These are a notch 
> below, but very effective...and they easily clear 43mm tires so who needs 
> discs?!  I love my discs on the Fargo, in mud/dirt, but the Roadini does 
> not need discs at all 

[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[John]

Awesome build! The Sergio green is great. Curious to hear how you think it 
rides. I've got an All City Space Horse that while not spot on, is pretty 
close to the geo of a Roadini, that I absolutely love.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[jaredwilson]

Love this build, and good info as I'm also 6'1 with an 89cm PBH.

Hope you get tons of lovely miles out of this beaut!

jared

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 7:28:29 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> Solid bike, Brent! So glad to see how nicely it turned out, especially 
> with that gorgeous silver drivetrain.
>
> I've got about 300ish miles on my Roadini now and I couldn't be happier. 
> Oddly enough, I have been spending more time on my Hillborne because I 
> don't want to feel guilty by leaving it in the garage. Can't wait to hear 
> your impression by the end of the summer.almost wondering if you'll 
> prefer the Leo to the Sam.
>
> Happy trails,
> Tony
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:27:41 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Took the Roadini for a 3 mile test ride and safety check and got some 
>> initial impressions. 
>>
>> 1. It felt expectedly similar to my Sam. The cockpit was a direct swap 
>> from Sam to Leo, makes sense. I bombed a lil hill that turned into gravel, 
>> felt very stable even when a dog ran out at me to join at my flank. I then 
>> climbed a steep street, seated in 36Fx30R, which is promising knowing I 
>> have a 24t option in front and will climb longer/steeper. If I stripped my 
>> Sam and put on slicks I’d be just as fast. Do I regret building this bike? 
>> Not yet and not likely. 
>>
>> 2. This seat won’t suit me for longer rides. My sit bones felt like they 
>> were on a wood beam. 
>>
>> 3. Even with the tall stack, sloped top tube, and my long arms, I still 
>> wished my hoods were 2” closer to me. 
>>
>> Sunshine has yet to hit this bike.  ¯\_(˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯ 
>>
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Jay  wrote:
>>
>> Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For the seat height inquiries:
>>>
>>> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
>>> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
>>> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
>>> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
>>> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>>>
>>> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>>>
>>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>>>
>>> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
>>> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
>>> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
>>> curious about this comparison.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> John
>>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but 
 it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.

 It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
 snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
 components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
 parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
 that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
 highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
 educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).


 -- 
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Tony Lockhart]

@Patrick - Leo is a bit more nimble and rigid to a comparably spec'd Sam. 
Sam seems a bit more flexy, especially with out of the seat climbing. Seems 
like the Sam is all over the place when it comes to steering--my Leo seems 
to track way better at low speeds. For context, I've had a million setups 
on my Sam during the last 14 years and it's currently running a flat bar, 
2x8 setup, on 44mm RH tires. My Leo is running a drop bar, 3x8 setup, and 
32mm Pasela TGs.38mm Shikoros arriving this Wednesday. Sam used to have 
the same parts currently on the Leo. I think the differences are very 
slightboth bikes are amazing.

@Jay - Congrats on the purchase--you picked a winner. Like you, I also 
purchased a dark gold 57cm frame. I couldn't be happier. Leo is a champ.
On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 5:32:46 AM UTC-8 Patrick Moore wrote:

> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>
> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini differ 
> from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it would be 
> interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the Roadini.
>
> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning 
> that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a 
> 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so 
> I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and 
> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>
>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my 
>> Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
>>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
>>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
>>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>>>
>>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
>>> have on it.. 
>>>
>>> Chris 
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
 like a good place...my new happy place ;-)

 I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
 sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
 be visiting Montreal.

 Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
 though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
 those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
 wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
 winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL 
 brake 
 levers, and Tektro brakes.

 Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
 but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on 
 local 
 mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
 be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!

 Photos to come in February.  

>>> -- 
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[Tony Lockhart]

Solid bike, Brent! So glad to see how nicely it turned out, especially with 
that gorgeous silver drivetrain.

I've got about 300ish miles on my Roadini now and I couldn't be happier. 
Oddly enough, I have been spending more time on my Hillborne because I 
don't want to feel guilty by leaving it in the garage. Can't wait to hear 
your impression by the end of the summer.almost wondering if you'll 
prefer the Leo to the Sam.

Happy trails,
Tony

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:27:41 PM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Took the Roadini for a 3 mile test ride and safety check and got some 
> initial impressions. 
>
> 1. It felt expectedly similar to my Sam. The cockpit was a direct swap 
> from Sam to Leo, makes sense. I bombed a lil hill that turned into gravel, 
> felt very stable even when a dog ran out at me to join at my flank. I then 
> climbed a steep street, seated in 36Fx30R, which is promising knowing I 
> have a 24t option in front and will climb longer/steeper. If I stripped my 
> Sam and put on slicks I’d be just as fast. Do I regret building this bike? 
> Not yet and not likely. 
>
> 2. This seat won’t suit me for longer rides. My sit bones felt like they 
> were on a wood beam. 
>
> 3. Even with the tall stack, sloped top tube, and my long arms, I still 
> wished my hoods were 2” closer to me. 
>
> Sunshine has yet to hit this bike.  ¯\_(˘͡ ˘̯)_/¯ 
>
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
>
>
> On Jan 22, 2024, at 2:21 PM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)
>
>
>
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> For the seat height inquiries:
>>
>> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
>> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
>> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
>> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
>> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>>
>> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>>
>> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>>
>> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
>> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
>> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
>> curious about this comparison.
>>
>>
>>
>> John
>> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but 
>>> it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.
>>>
>>> It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
>>> snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
>>> components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
>>> parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
>>> that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
>>> highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
>>> educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/586aa6cd-94e5-4e98-8af8-3bd1a4c6010bn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
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>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Jay]

While I'm not concerned with the weight I'll land on after the build, I 
would like to keep up with my friend who I ride weekly with.  He's good 
going my speed (he's naturally faster), and I'm hoping the speed on this 
bike isn't much lower than my current road bike.  Like many say, it's the 
total weight including the rider that counts...so I started eating better 
since ordering the frame to see if total weight is the same, or better!  I 
do have a second wheel set I'm planning to use, occasionally, and those 
wheels together with then 30mm tires will be lighter, and have better hubs 
(will be interesting to see how they feel when riding compared to the other 
wheels with 43mm GKSS).

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:34:41 AM UTC-5 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It weighed 23 pounds with pump, water bottle cage, pedals but no toolkit: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 5:32 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>>
>> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini 
>> differ from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it 
>> would be interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the 
>> Roadini.
>>
>> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning 
>> that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a 
>> 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so 
>> I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and 
>> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>>
>>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat 
>>> my Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
>>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
>>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
>>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
>>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
>>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
 shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
 shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I 
 don't 
 even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 

 I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group 
 I have on it.. 

 Chris 

 On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this 
> sounds like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For 
> now though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be 
> using those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some 
> handbill wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my 
> Fargo 
> in the winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro 
> RRL brake levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on 
> local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>
 -- 
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>>> Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
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>>> an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
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>>>  
>>> 
>>> .
>>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>>
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing 
>> services
>>
>>
>> ---
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>>
>> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>>
>> *I 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[Jay]

Looks great.  You have me questioning the Dark Gold I selected ;-)

On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 3:36:11 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> For the seat height inquiries:
>
> Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini 
> has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the 
> Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to 
> compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 
> 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. 
>
> I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH 
>
> On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:
>
> Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, 
> please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially 
> when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is 
> curious about this comparison.
>
>
>
> John
> On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it 
>> was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.
>>
>> It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
>> snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
>> components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
>> parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
>> that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
>> highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
>> educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).
>>
>>
>> -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[Brenton Eastman]

For the seat height inquiries:Both my bikes are currently 41” top of saddle to the ground. The Roadini has less BB drop so top of saddle to crank bolt center is 31”, where the Sam is 31.5”. I may end up raising the saddle on the Roadini. Hard to compare a broken in B17 to C17 as well. I could probably raise both seats 1” and still have a knee bend at bottom of pedal stroke. I am 6’1” with 89cm PBH On Jan 22, 2024, at 11:10 AM, John Bokman  wrote:Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, please let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially when it was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is curious about this comparison.JohnOn Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).



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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[John Bokman]

Brenton, thanks for the post; nice looking bike. As weather allows, please 
let us know how this bike rides compared to your Sam (especially when it 
was in drop-bar mode). I'm sure I'm not the only Sam rider who is curious 
about this comparison.

John
On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 10:49:51 AM UTC-8 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it 
> was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.
>
> It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland 
> snow+ice+wind. Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about 
> components I was only mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used 
> parts on eBay was surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components 
> that most folks ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, 
> highly recommend watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and 
> educational instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[Brian Witt]

Very nice build!  well thought out...nothing 'stuck on' or out of character 
for its mission...  I am also trying to decide between 57 and 61, and would 
like to know the saddle height on your bike...


On Monday, January 22, 2024 at 1:40:41 AM UTC-5 exliontamer wrote:

> Nice! Curious what your saddle height is in the photos. I'm maybe about to 
> pull the trigger and am on the fence between the 57 & 61. 
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:34:53 PM UTC-6 brenton...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks to all the advice and guidance from folks here on my second 
>> Rivendell build! Turns out there are quite a few folks with a "Country 
>> Bike" that also went for a +1 Roadini. 
>>
>> I've set up my 2017 Sam Hillborne several different ways; first it was 
>> drops+road focused, then it was a Riv 1.0 camping basket bike, then it got 
>> lighter wheels and no basket, then flat bars and knobbies, then it lost 
>> it's F+R racks, fenders have come and gone, and in each phase it's been 
>> "perfect". 
>>
>> I just *wanted* a +1 and the +1 was to be lighter and faster. Months ago 
>> I was looking at 90s racing and sport tourers as cheaper alternatives to a 
>> Roadini, perhaps also lighter, and less well rounded, and more definitively 
>> alternative to my Sam. I test rode some: Specialized Sequoia, Waterford 22 
>> Series, Bridgestone RB1. Nothing felt like the right move. I was being 
>> patient, doing the research, etc, when a Roadini frameset in my size and my 
>> preferred color was posted here, and the owner Lived 2 hours away. Let's go.
>>
>> Using Sam's lighter wheelset, former drop bar cockpit, and a few other 
>> parts bin items, I was able to keep the entire build within my budget. I 
>> bought a lot of NOS and pre-owned components for great prices. Stoked. I'm 
>> happy with how it came out. There's a whole bunch of component 
>> interchangeability with these two bikes, which *may* come in handy some 
>> day. Weather in PNW has been bad for riding, good for wrenching. I still 
>> haven't ridden it yet. 
>>
>> The only thing I was not stoked on was the Ultegra FD inner cage plate 
>> rubbed the middle ring when shifting to big ring. It was already up 
>> high-ish to not hit the chainstay. So now it's even higher out of 
>> necessity. It bothers me a lil bit. Bars and seat height+angle subject to 
>> change after test ride. Right now the drops swing just under the top tube 
>> to avoid dings.
>>
>> [image: LM000884.jpeg]
>> [image: LM000881.jpeg]
>> [image: LM000880.jpeg]
>> [image: LM000883.jpeg]
>> [image: LM000887.jpeg]
>>
>> Build List:
>> 57cm Roadini Sergio Green
>> Nitto Noodle 48cm bars
>> Nitto Tallux 8cm stem
>> Shimano Tiagra levers
>> Blue Lug cotton tape (not as long as newbaums)
>> Tektro R559 brakes
>> Nissen clear housing
>> Velocity Dyad 32H, Deore w/11-32, SP front hub
>> Ultradynamico Cava 700x42
>> Sugino XD2 46/36/24
>> Ultegra 6500 FD + RD
>> Suntour Superbe DT shifters
>> Wellgo Pedals with *gasp *cages
>> Brooks C17 seat
>> King bottle cages
>> A few brass bling bits from Riv + Blue Lug
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[Brenton Eastman]

I haven't ridden it enough to decide if it was the perfect +1 yet, but it 
was a fun project. I will report back after some miles.

It was great way to spend my time during 2 weeks of Portland snow+ice+wind. 
Did lots of research, and learned a ton more about components I was only 
mildly interested in before. Shopping for NOS+used parts on eBay was 
surprisingly fun, especially if you're after components that most folks 
ignore. I watched all the "built by blue lug" videos, highly recommend 
watching for both zen, appreciation of expertise, and educational 
instruction (though they are not intentionally instructional).


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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[藍俊彪]

It weighed 23 pounds with pump, water bottle cage, pedals but no toolkit:
https://blog.piaw.net/2022/10/putting-together-my-roadini.html

On Mon, Jan 22, 2024 at 5:32 AM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?
>
> More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini differ
> from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it would be
> interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the Roadini.
>
> Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning
> that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a
> 38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so
> I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and
> beater-sh) Sam surrogate.
>
> On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:
>
>> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my
>> Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so
>> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in.
>> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the
>> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light
>> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard
>> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated
>>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT
>>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't
>>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice!
>>>
>>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I
>>> have on it..
>>>
>>> Chris
>>>
>>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>>
 First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds
 like a good place...my new happy place ;-)

 I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that
 sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll
 be visiting Montreal.

 Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now
 though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using
 those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill
 wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the
 winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake
 levers, and Tektro brakes.

 Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved,
 but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local
 mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will
 be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!

 Photos to come in February.

>>> --
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>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> --
>
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> ---
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services
>
>
> ---
>
> *When thou didst not, savage, k**now thine own meaning,*
>
> *But wouldst gabble like a** thing most brutish,*
>
> *I endowed thy purposes w**ith words that made them known.*
>
> --
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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[zem...@gmail.com]

Such a fantastic build, Brenton! 

Is the bike giving you what you were looking for in your +1 from your 
country bike?

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 5:34:53 PM UTC-5 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks to all the advice and guidance from folks here on my second 
> Rivendell build! Turns out there are quite a few folks with a "Country 
> Bike" that also went for a +1 Roadini. 
>
> I've set up my 2017 Sam Hillborne several different ways; first it was 
> drops+road focused, then it was a Riv 1.0 camping basket bike, then it got 
> lighter wheels and no basket, then flat bars and knobbies, then it lost 
> it's F+R racks, fenders have come and gone, and in each phase it's been 
> "perfect". 
>
> I just *wanted* a +1 and the +1 was to be lighter and faster. Months ago 
> I was looking at 90s racing and sport tourers as cheaper alternatives to a 
> Roadini, perhaps also lighter, and less well rounded, and more definitively 
> alternative to my Sam. I test rode some: Specialized Sequoia, Waterford 22 
> Series, Bridgestone RB1. Nothing felt like the right move. I was being 
> patient, doing the research, etc, when a Roadini frameset in my size and my 
> preferred color was posted here, and the owner Lived 2 hours away. Let's go.
>
> Using Sam's lighter wheelset, former drop bar cockpit, and a few other 
> parts bin items, I was able to keep the entire build within my budget. I 
> bought a lot of NOS and pre-owned components for great prices. Stoked. I'm 
> happy with how it came out. There's a whole bunch of component 
> interchangeability with these two bikes, which *may* come in handy some 
> day. Weather in PNW has been bad for riding, good for wrenching. I still 
> haven't ridden it yet. 
>
> The only thing I was not stoked on was the Ultegra FD inner cage plate 
> rubbed the middle ring when shifting to big ring. It was already up 
> high-ish to not hit the chainstay. So now it's even higher out of 
> necessity. It bothers me a lil bit. Bars and seat height+angle subject to 
> change after test ride. Right now the drops swing just under the top tube 
> to avoid dings.
>
> [image: LM000884.jpeg]
> [image: LM000881.jpeg]
> [image: LM000880.jpeg]
> [image: LM000883.jpeg]
> [image: LM000887.jpeg]
>
> Build List:
> 57cm Roadini Sergio Green
> Nitto Noodle 48cm bars
> Nitto Tallux 8cm stem
> Shimano Tiagra levers
> Blue Lug cotton tape (not as long as newbaums)
> Tektro R559 brakes
> Nissen clear housing
> Velocity Dyad 32H, Deore w/11-32, SP front hub
> Ultradynamico Cava 700x42
> Sugino XD2 46/36/24
> Ultegra 6500 FD + RD
> Suntour Superbe DT shifters
> Wellgo Pedals with *gasp *cages
> Brooks C17 seat
> King bottle cages
> A few brass bling bits from Riv + Blue Lug
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[brendonoid]

Such a clean build! That Sergio green is really growing on me too.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Patrick Moore]

Piaw: I'm curious, how light is your Roadini?

More general question to the audience: How does the current Roadini differ
from the original Sam Hillborne? I owned one of the latter and it would be
interesting to use this Sam as a gauge for understanding the Roadini.

Aside: I'm thinking (just thinking; action may come but later) of turning
that Libertas into an on-and-offroad beater because I think it will take a
38 mm tire. The original issue Sam was limited to IIRC 38 or 40 mm tires so
I hope that this might be a more nimble handling and lighter (and
beater-sh) Sam surrogate.

On Sun, Jan 21, 2024 at 8:44 PM Piaw Na  wrote:

> I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my
> Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so
> shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in.
> But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the
> lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light
> as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard
> climbs. It hasn't disappointed.
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated
>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT
>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't
>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice!
>>
>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I
>> have on it..
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds
>>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>>
>>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that
>>> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll
>>> be visiting Montreal.
>>>
>>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now
>>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using
>>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill
>>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the
>>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake
>>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>>
>>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved,
>>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local
>>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will
>>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>>
>>> Photos to come in February.
>>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build is complete

[exliontamer]

Nice! Curious what your saddle height is in the photos. I'm maybe about to 
pull the trigger and am on the fence between the 57 & 61. 

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 4:34:53 PM UTC-6 brenton...@gmail.com wrote:

> Thanks to all the advice and guidance from folks here on my second 
> Rivendell build! Turns out there are quite a few folks with a "Country 
> Bike" that also went for a +1 Roadini. 
>
> I've set up my 2017 Sam Hillborne several different ways; first it was 
> drops+road focused, then it was a Riv 1.0 camping basket bike, then it got 
> lighter wheels and no basket, then flat bars and knobbies, then it lost 
> it's F+R racks, fenders have come and gone, and in each phase it's been 
> "perfect". 
>
> I just *wanted* a +1 and the +1 was to be lighter and faster. Months ago 
> I was looking at 90s racing and sport tourers as cheaper alternatives to a 
> Roadini, perhaps also lighter, and less well rounded, and more definitively 
> alternative to my Sam. I test rode some: Specialized Sequoia, Waterford 22 
> Series, Bridgestone RB1. Nothing felt like the right move. I was being 
> patient, doing the research, etc, when a Roadini frameset in my size and my 
> preferred color was posted here, and the owner Lived 2 hours away. Let's go.
>
> Using Sam's lighter wheelset, former drop bar cockpit, and a few other 
> parts bin items, I was able to keep the entire build within my budget. I 
> bought a lot of NOS and pre-owned components for great prices. Stoked. I'm 
> happy with how it came out. There's a whole bunch of component 
> interchangeability with these two bikes, which *may* come in handy some 
> day. Weather in PNW has been bad for riding, good for wrenching. I still 
> haven't ridden it yet. 
>
> The only thing I was not stoked on was the Ultegra FD inner cage plate 
> rubbed the middle ring when shifting to big ring. It was already up 
> high-ish to not hit the chainstay. So now it's even higher out of 
> necessity. It bothers me a lil bit. Bars and seat height+angle subject to 
> change after test ride. Right now the drops swing just under the top tube 
> to avoid dings.
>
> [image: LM000884.jpeg]
> [image: LM000881.jpeg]
> [image: LM000880.jpeg]
> [image: LM000883.jpeg]
> [image: LM000887.jpeg]
>
> Build List:
> 57cm Roadini Sergio Green
> Nitto Noodle 48cm bars
> Nitto Tallux 8cm stem
> Shimano Tiagra levers
> Blue Lug cotton tape (not as long as newbaums)
> Tektro R559 brakes
> Nissen clear housing
> Velocity Dyad 32H, Deore w/11-32, SP front hub
> Ultradynamico Cava 700x42
> Sugino XD2 46/36/24
> Ultegra 6500 FD + RD
> Suntour Superbe DT shifters
> Wellgo Pedals with *gasp *cages
> Brooks C17 seat
> King bottle cages
> A few brass bling bits from Riv + Blue Lug
>
>
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Piaw Na]

I went with 11s and a single DT shifter (I'm running 1x11) and I treat my 
Roadini as a gravel bike. It's great. Usually I climb on the road so 
shifting is not a problem, and descending who cares what gears you're in. 
But on the few occasions I did a a dirt climb and I'd just shift into the 
lowest gear and stay there. My goal for the Roadini was to make it as light 
as possible (given the relatively heavy frame) while still able to do hard 
climbs. It hasn't disappointed.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 2:06:45 PM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>
> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
> have on it.. 
>
> Chris 
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>
>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
>> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
>> be visiting Montreal.
>>
>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>
>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>
>> Photos to come in February.  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

I can see that.. 

Looking forward to the build! 

Chris

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 3:04:04 PM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> I hear you 'fourflys', I was undecided before going with the DT and the 
> RRSL levers.  My Fargo has brifters and on the mixed-surface, often 
> technical trails I ride, it's very handy.  My road bike has brifters.  I 
> decided I wanted to try something different, plus I like the idea of them 
> being friction, and the simplicity of them (oh, and the lower cost, as I 
> didn't have brifters on hand, like I did other parts).  I had DT shifters 
> on a bike I built up around 10 years ago and liked them.  This bike will 
> mainly be ridden on paved roads, and occasional gravel roads and rail 
> trails (80/20), so I'm sure it will be fine.  But once I ride it, we'll see 
> how I adjust.
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
>> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
>> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
>> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>>
>> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
>> have on it.. 
>>
>> Chris 
>>
>> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>>
>>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
>>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>>
>>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
>>> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
>>> be visiting Montreal.
>>>
>>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
>>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
>>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
>>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
>>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
>>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>>
>>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
>>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
>>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
>>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>>
>>> Photos to come in February.  
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Jay]

I hear you 'fourflys', I was undecided before going with the DT and the 
RRSL levers.  My Fargo has brifters and on the mixed-surface, often 
technical trails I ride, it's very handy.  My road bike has brifters.  I 
decided I wanted to try something different, plus I like the idea of them 
being friction, and the simplicity of them (oh, and the lower cost, as I 
didn't have brifters on hand, like I did other parts).  I had DT shifters 
on a bike I built up around 10 years ago and liked them.  This bike will 
mainly be ridden on paved roads, and occasional gravel roads and rail 
trails (80/20), so I'm sure it will be fine.  But once I ride it, we'll see 
how I adjust.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 5:06:45 PM UTC-5 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
> shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
> shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
> even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 
>
> I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
> have on it.. 
>
> Chris 
>
> On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:
>
>> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
>> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>>
>> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
>> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
>> be visiting Montreal.
>>
>> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
>> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
>> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
>> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
>> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
>> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>>
>> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, 
>> but there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
>> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
>> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>>
>> Photos to come in February.  
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Chris Fly]

Just curious, if you are using 11sp, why not use integrated 
shifters/levers? To each their own for sure, but I can't imagine DT 
shifters on a mixed-surface trail unless it's really smooth.. heck, I don't 
even care for bar-ends on a trail.. but those RRL levers are super nice! 

I'm leaning hard into a Roadini that I may put a Campy 10 Triple group I 
have on it.. 

Chris 

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but 
> there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Brenton Eastman]

Looking forward to updates! I just built a Roadini as well.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but 
> there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Build - Mix of Modern and Retro

[Brenton Eastman]

Looking forward to updates! I just built a Roadini myself.

On Sunday, January 21, 2024 at 10:33:55 AM UTC-8 Jay wrote:

> First post here!  I've been reading some of the threads and this sounds 
> like a good place...my new happy place ;-)
>
> I ordered the dark gold Roadini (57) from the only shop in Canada that 
> sells Riv (C Cycles) and will be picking it up in a few weeks when I'll 
> be visiting Montreal.
>
> Looking for this to be a project bike, that evolves over time.  For now 
> though, I had a lot of new / lightly used parts on hand, so I'll be using 
> those and having the bike shop supply the rest (including some handbill 
> wheels for some lightly used 43mm GKSS tires I'm using on my Fargo in the 
> winter).  Build will be Shimano 11sp, with DT shifters and Tektro RRL brake 
> levers, and Tektro brakes.
>
> Purpose of the bike is all-road (where I live, a lot of that is paved, but 
> there are gravel roads further out), but will not be used much on local 
> mixed-surface trails (where the Fargo excels).  My current road bike will 
> be jealous, but I'm not kicking her to the curb just yet!
>
> Photos to come in February.  
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

Hi Maggie,

I sent you an email with some questions. 

Thanks!
Chris 

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 4:27:19 PM UTC-8 Maggie Zhou wrote:

> I have contemplated selling my 50cm roadini that has a modern brifter 
> build (all Shimano 105). It's the first production batch circa 2017, so 
> only has spacing for ~35s, and I've personally never succeeding at running 
> larger than 28s with fenders + 105 mid reach brakes. It kinda sounds like 
> this wouldn't fit your desires anyway, since you want to run wider tires. 
> Email me directly if you want to talk? I haven't really thought about 
> pricing...it has felt a little extravagant to sell to just turn around and 
> buy a new Roadini for the wider tires.
>
>  I don't keep good track of my rides, but I have at least 10k miles on it. 
> It's a great bike, and I can't imagine wanting anything different if I 
> wanted a fast steel road bike. 
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 1:22:36 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Oh shoot, I didn't realize the Crust was 650b in smaller sizes. Velo 
>> Orange Rando frameset  
>> is the only other production road frame that comes to mind, but I haven't 
>> read/heard much about it's ride quality. The modular dropouts are a really 
>> neat idea though. 
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 11:32:26 AM UTC-6 eddietheflay wrote:
>>
>>> As I wrote earlier and it looks like Ron is going in this direction:
>>>
>>> " I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the 
>>> Malocchio with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder 
>>> coat at a reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days." I'd 
>>> want threaded fork cuz I need the rise offered by long quill stems.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:27:46 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
 Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
 even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 

 On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:

> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>
>> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
>> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the 
>>> manufacturing so it takes different brakes front and rear which is 
>>> bizarre. 
>>> Even more bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on 
>>> the 
>>> front. Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then 
>>> do 
>>> the repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of 
>>> my 
>>> mind and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent 
 clearance. Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that 
 most 
 Rivs are and without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put 
 some 
 blocks on my pedals and you could try it.

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one 
> reason you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't 
> fit in 
> my travel bike box.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  
> wrote:
>
>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
>> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
>> Napa. I 
>> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was 
>> (perhaps like 
>> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had 
>> previously 
>> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the 
>> cusp 
>> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
>> concluded 
>> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 
>> 54 in 
>> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire 
>> size 
>> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
>> considered 
>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
>> that I 
>> didn't love the components 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Maggie Zhou]

I have contemplated selling my 50cm roadini that has a modern brifter build 
(all Shimano 105). It's the first production batch circa 2017, so only has 
spacing for ~35s, and I've personally never succeeding at running larger 
than 28s with fenders + 105 mid reach brakes. It kinda sounds like this 
wouldn't fit your desires anyway, since you want to run wider tires. Email 
me directly if you want to talk? I haven't really thought about 
pricing...it has felt a little extravagant to sell to just turn around and 
buy a new Roadini for the wider tires.

 I don't keep good track of my rides, but I have at least 10k miles on it. 
It's a great bike, and I can't imagine wanting anything different if I 
wanted a fast steel road bike. 
On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 1:22:36 PM UTC-8 andyree...@gmail.com wrote:

> Oh shoot, I didn't realize the Crust was 650b in smaller sizes. Velo 
> Orange Rando frameset  
> is the only other production road frame that comes to mind, but I haven't 
> read/heard much about it's ride quality. The modular dropouts are a really 
> neat idea though. 
>
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 11:32:26 AM UTC-6 eddietheflay wrote:
>
>> As I wrote earlier and it looks like Ron is going in this direction:
>>
>> " I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the 
>> Malocchio with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder 
>> coat at a reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days." I'd 
>> want threaded fork cuz I need the rise offered by long quill stems.
>>
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:27:46 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
>>> Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
>>> even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 
>>>
>>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:
>>>
 the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
 me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:

> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the 
>> manufacturing so it takes different brakes front and rear which is 
>> bizarre. 
>> Even more bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on 
>> the 
>> front. Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do 
>> the repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of 
>> my 
>> mind and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent 
>>> clearance. Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that 
>>> most 
>>> Rivs are and without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put 
>>> some 
>>> blocks on my pedals and you could try it.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one 
 reason you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit 
 in 
 my travel bike box.

 On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  
 wrote:

> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
> Napa. I 
> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was 
> (perhaps like 
> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had 
> previously 
> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the 
> cusp 
> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
> concluded 
> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 
> in 
> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire 
> size 
> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
> considered 
> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
> that I 
> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first 
> place.  
> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  
> it 
> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
> locally, 
> and then 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Andrew Turner]

Oh shoot, I didn't realize the Crust was 650b in smaller sizes. Velo Orange 
Rando frameset  is the 
only other production road frame that comes to mind, but I haven't 
read/heard much about it's ride quality. The modular dropouts are a really 
neat idea though. 

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 11:32:26 AM UTC-6 eddietheflay wrote:

> As I wrote earlier and it looks like Ron is going in this direction:
>
> " I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the Malocchio 
> with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder coat at a 
> reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days." I'd want 
> threaded fork cuz I need the rise offered by long quill stems.
>
>
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:27:46 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
>> Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
>> even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 
>>
>> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:
>>
>>> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
>>> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
>>> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>>>
 I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
 tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the 
> manufacturing so it takes different brakes front and rear which is 
> bizarre. 
> Even more bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on 
> the 
> front. Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do 
> the repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my 
> mind and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  
> wrote:
>
>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent 
>> clearance. Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most 
>> Rivs are and without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put 
>> some 
>> blocks on my pedals and you could try it.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one 
>>> reason you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit 
>>> in 
>>> my travel bike box.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
 purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
 Napa. I 
 wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
 like 
 you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had 
 previously 
 visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the 
 cusp 
 between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
 concluded 
 that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 
 in 
 "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire 
 size 
 that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
 considered 
 investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
 that I 
 didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first 
 place.  
 And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
 didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
 locally, 
 and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike 
 that I 
 love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some 
 Noodles 
 and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
 Roadini 
 felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
 acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
 flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on 
 it. 

 If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But 
 you're close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike 
 and see 
 what you think. The newsletter that came out today says they 
 discovered one 
 Gold 50 in stock...

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> It's way more 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[eddietheflay]

As I wrote earlier and it looks like Ron is going in this direction:

" I'd like to see a Columbus Spirit tubed frameset just like the Malocchio 
with tigs, slanted top tube, threaded fork, and a nice powder coat at a 
reasonable price. Kinda like a BMW 2002 from the olden days." I'd want 
threaded fork cuz I need the rise offered by long quill stems.


On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:27:46 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
> Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
> even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 
>
> On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:
>
>> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
>> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
>> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>>
>>> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
>>> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing 
 so it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
 bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
 Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
 repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
 and cause me not to enjoy the bike.

 On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  
 wrote:

> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are 
> and 
> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
> pedals and you could try it.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
>> you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
>> travel bike box.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>>
>>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
>>> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
>>> Napa. I 
>>> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
>>> like 
>>> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
>>> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the 
>>> cusp 
>>> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
>>> concluded 
>>> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 
>>> in 
>>> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire 
>>> size 
>>> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
>>> considered 
>>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
>>> that I 
>>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place. 
>>>  
>>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
>>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
>>> locally, 
>>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike 
>>> that I 
>>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some 
>>> Noodles 
>>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
>>> Roadini 
>>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
>>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
>>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on 
>>> it. 
>>>
>>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But 
>>> you're close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and 
>>> see 
>>> what you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered 
>>> one 
>>> Gold 50 in stock...
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
 already claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes 
 like 
 crazy when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 
 pounds. 
 If I was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 
 200 
 pounds I still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I 
 don't consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the 
 road. I 
 want 80mm or 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

A Riv may not be the bike for me this time.. I'm also considering a 
Litespeed Arenberg (the new one, seems like some good numbers) or maybe 
even splash out on a custom Fitz or Sycip here in Sonoma County.. 

On Saturday, January 6, 2024 at 9:23:21 AM UTC-8 Chris Fly wrote:

> the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 
> 650b and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug 
> me if I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:
>
>> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
>> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing 
>>> so it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
>>> bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
>>> Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
>>> repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
>>> and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:
>>>
 Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
 Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
 without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
 pedals and you could try it.

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
> you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
> travel bike box.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>
>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
>> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to 
>> Napa. I 
>> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
>> like 
>> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
>> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp 
>> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
>> concluded 
>> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in 
>> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size 
>> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I 
>> considered 
>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized 
>> that I 
>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
>> locally, 
>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike 
>> that I 
>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some 
>> Noodles 
>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
>> Roadini 
>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 
>>
>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But 
>> you're close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and 
>> see 
>> what you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered 
>> one 
>> Gold 50 in stock...
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
>>> already claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes 
>>> like 
>>> crazy when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 
>>> pounds. 
>>> If I was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 
>>> pounds I still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I 
>>> don't consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the 
>>> road. I 
>>> want 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires 
>>> where 
>>> you wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. 
 I'm looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger 
 tires.. 
 Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning 
 the 
 tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 

 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

the issue with the Crust for me is the three smallest sizes seem to be 650b 
and I don't really want a 650b bike.. plus the brake thing might bug me if 
I did want to run larger tires in the future.. thanks Eddie! 

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:38:49 PM UTC-8 eddietheflay wrote:

> I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
> tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing 
>> so it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
>> bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
>> Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
>> repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
>> and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:
>>
>>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
>>> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
>>> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
>>> pedals and you could try it.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
 you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
 travel bike box.

 On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:

> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
> purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. 
> I 
> wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
> like 
> you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
> visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp 
> between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later 
> concluded 
> that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in 
> "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size 
> that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered 
> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that 
> I 
> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up 
> locally, 
> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that 
> I 
> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles 
> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The 
> Roadini 
> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 
>
> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're 
> close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what 
> you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one 
> Gold 
> 50 in stock...
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
>> already claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes 
>> like 
>> crazy when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 
>> pounds. 
>> If I was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 
>> pounds I still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I 
>> don't consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. 
>> I 
>> want 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires 
>> where 
>> you wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
>>> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
>>> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning 
>>> the 
>>> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 
>>>
>>> Thoughts? 
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
 https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
 With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's 
 not 
 built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[eddietheflay]

I have the same brakes front and rear and there is no issue with 35mm 
tires. The OP wants a quick road bike so he'd  be fine too.

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 7:21:46 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing so 
> it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more 
> bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front. 
> Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the 
> repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind 
> and cause me not to enjoy the bike.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:
>
>> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. 
>> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
>> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
>> pedals and you could try it.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason 
>>> you like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my 
>>> travel bike box.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>>>
 Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike 
 purchased from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. 
 I 
 wanted a RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps 
 like 
 you), hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously 
 visited HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp 
 between 54 and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later concluded 
 that I should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in 
 "Old Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size 
 that the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered 
 investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that 
 I 
 didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
 And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
 didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up locally, 
 and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that 
 I 
 love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles 
 and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The Roadini 
 felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
 acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
 flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 

 If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're 
 close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what 
 you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one 
 Gold 
 50 in stock...

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends 
> already claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like 
> crazy when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. 
> If I was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 
> pounds I still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I 
> don't consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. 
> I 
> want 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires 
> where 
> you wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
>> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
>> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning 
>> the 
>> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 
>>
>> Thoughts? 
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
>>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
>>> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
>>> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with 
>>> pedals, 
>>> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have 
>>> probably 
>>> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said 
>>> that, 
>>> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
>>> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents 
>>> (the 
>>> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[藍俊彪]

The big minus behind the crust is that they messed up the manufacturing so
it takes different brakes front and rear which is bizarre. Even more
bizarre is that it requires smaller tires on the back than on the front.
Unless you pay to have someone move the brake bridge (and then do the
repaint) that kind of stuff would always be nagging at the back of my mind
and cause me not to enjoy the bike.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024 at 7:14 PM eddietheflay  wrote:

> Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance.
> Some things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and
> without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my
> pedals and you could try it.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason you
>> like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my travel
>> bike box.
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>>
>>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike purchased
>>> from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. I wanted a
>>> RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps like you),
>>> hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously visited
>>> HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp between 54
>>> and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later concluded that I
>>> should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in "Old
>>> Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size that
>>> the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered
>>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that I
>>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.
>>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it
>>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up locally,
>>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that I
>>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles
>>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The Roadini
>>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to
>>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on
>>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it.
>>>
>>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're
>>> close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what
>>> you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one Gold
>>> 50 in stock...
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already
 claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy
 when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I
 was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I
 still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't
 consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want
 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you
 wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm
> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires..
> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the
> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy..
>
> Thoughts?
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini:
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html.
>> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not
>> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with 
>> pedals,
>> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have 
>> probably
>> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said 
>> that,
>> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993
>> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents 
>> (the
>> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm
>> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down
>> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 
>> 559s
>> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike 
>> any
>> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>>
>> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[eddietheflay]

Crust Malocchio. Real lugs, real lightweight tubing, decent clearance. Some 
things in its favor. Definitely not the looker that most Rivs are and 
without sloping top tube = good or not so? We could put some blocks on my 
pedals and you could try it.

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:05:49 PM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason you 
> like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my travel 
> bike box.
>
> On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:
>
>> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike purchased 
>> from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. I wanted a 
>> RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps like you), 
>> hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously visited 
>> HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp between 54 
>> and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later concluded that I 
>> should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in "Old 
>> Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size that 
>> the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered 
>> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that I 
>> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
>> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
>> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up locally, 
>> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that I 
>> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles 
>> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The Roadini 
>> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
>> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
>> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 
>>
>> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're 
>> close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what 
>> you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one Gold 
>> 50 in stock...
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already 
>>> claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy 
>>> when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I 
>>> was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I 
>>> still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't 
>>> consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want 
>>> 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you 
>>> wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
 looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
 Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
 tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 

 Thoughts? 

 On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with 
> pedals, 
> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have 
> probably 
> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said 
> that, 
> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents 
> (the 
> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 
> 559s 
> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike 
> any 
> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>
> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I 
> think 
> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is 
> so 
> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
> downhill MTB park.
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Howdy all,
>>
>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[藍俊彪]

The A Homer Hilsen comes with an 80mm drop, which could be one reason you
like it over the Roadini. But the Hilsen probably won't fit in my travel
bike box.

On Fri, Jan 5, 2024, 17:54 Stephen Durfee  wrote:

> Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike purchased
> from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. I wanted a
> RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps like you),
> hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously visited
> HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp between 54
> and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later concluded that I
> should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in "Old
> Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size that
> the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered
> investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that I
> didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.
> And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it
> didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up locally,
> and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that I
> love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles
> and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The Roadini
> felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to
> acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on
> flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it.
>
> If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're
> close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what
> you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one Gold
> 50 in stock...
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already
>> claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy
>> when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I
>> was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I
>> still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't
>> consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want
>> 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you
>> wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm
>>> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires..
>>> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the
>>> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy..
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini:
 https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html.
 With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not
 built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals,
 bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably
 shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that,
 it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993
 Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the
 higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm
 tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down
 single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s
 outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any
 disc brakes I've ever ridden).

 I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall
 enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think
 it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so
 versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated
 downhill MTB park.
 On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com
 wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be
> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I
> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a
> Ram for a short time.
>
> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when
> riding? I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some 
> bikes
> can weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, 
> but
> I like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping 

[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Stephen Durfee]

Chris - I got my Roadini just over a year ago, a complete bike purchased 
from a CL listing in South Carolina that I had shipped to Napa. I wanted a 
RIv so bad, and a "road bike" in particular, but was (perhaps like you), 
hoping to save a few bucks on a pre-owned model. I had previously visited 
HQ and talked with Will, who acknowledged that I was on the cusp between 54 
and 57, and that either could be a good fit...I later concluded that I 
should have gone with the larger size - the one I got was a 54 in "Old 
Blue", an earlier model which would not accept the larger tire size that 
the newer models do.  I liked the bike well enough that I considered 
investing in a brand new frame (that Gold is hot!) but also realized that I 
didn't love the components that came with that bike in the first place.  
And so, since I would have been essentially starting from scratch,  it 
didn't take much convincing to grab that Homer frame that came up locally, 
and then build it up with the parts that I wanted. Now I have a bike that I 
love, love, love, in a size that fits!  I kept it lean, with some Noodles 
and 33mm Jack Browns, no racks and only a spare tire tool kit. The Roadini 
felt good, but the Homer feels great! And while I'm the first to 
acknowledge that I know nothing about BB drop, or could comment on 
flexiness, or even know how much it weighs...I feel fast when I'm on it. 

If in your heart, you want an orange 50, I'd say just wait. But you're 
close enough to Walnut Creek to go have a spin on a new bike and see what 
you think. The newsletter that came out today says they discovered one Gold 
50 in stock...

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:23:50 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already 
> claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy 
> when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I 
> was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I 
> still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't 
> consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want 
> 80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you 
> wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
>> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
>> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
>> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 
>>
>> Thoughts? 
>>
>> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
>>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
>>> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
>>> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
>>> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
>>> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
>>> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
>>> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
>>> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
>>> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
>>> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
>>> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
>>> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>>>
>>> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
>>> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think 
>>> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
>>> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
>>> downhill MTB park.
>>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Howdy all,

 So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
 some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
 got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
 Ram for a short time. 

 So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
 I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
 weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
 like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
 my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 

 I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
 group.. 

 Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are 
 looking to move? 

 Thanks,
 Chris is 

[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Piaw Na]

It's way more flexy/comfy than my Custom Ti bike, which friends already 
claim is flexy and comfy when they ride it (and which flexes like crazy 
when I attach a trailer to it). It's overbuilt for me @ 145 pounds. If I 
was 160 pounds I wouldn't consider it over built, and if I was 200 pounds I 
still wouldn't expect to break it. My big complaint is that I don't 
consider 75mm BB drop to be sufficient for 30mm tires on the road. I want 
80mm or 85mm drop for a bike built for modern style giant tires where you 
wouldn't expect to ride anything smaller than 700x30.

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 9:19:37 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
> looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
> Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
> tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 
>
> Thoughts? 
>
> On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
>> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
>> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
>> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
>> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
>> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
>> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
>> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
>> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
>> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
>> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
>> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>>
>> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
>> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think 
>> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
>> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
>> downhill MTB park.
>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Howdy all,
>>>
>>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>>> Ram for a short time. 
>>>
>>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>>
>>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>>> group.. 
>>>
>>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are 
>>> looking to move? 
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

I guess that's my concern is I'm not looking for a gravel bike.. I'm 
looking for a zippy (fast-ish) road bike that will take larger tires.. 
Also,  one of my main concerns is the bike will be overbuilt, meaning the 
tubes will be heavy enough that it won't flex enough to be comfy.. 

Thoughts? 

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:15:25 AM UTC-8 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I have about 1300 miles on my Roadini: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
> With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
> built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
> bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
> shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
> it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
> Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
> higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
> tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
> single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
> outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
> disc brakes I've ever ridden).
>
> I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall 
> enough to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think 
> it's the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
> versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
> downhill MTB park.
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Howdy all,
>>
>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>> Ram for a short time. 
>>
>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>
>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>> group.. 
>>
>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
>> to move? 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>
>

-- 
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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Piaw Na]

I have about 1300 miles on my 
Roadini: https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html. 
With 700x28mm tires it feels as fast as any bike I've ridden that's not 
built to be ultralight. I built mine up to be around 20 pounds with pedals, 
bottle cage and pump but no toolkit or water bottle. I could have probably 
shaved another pound off with Jon Neugent's 1430g wheels. Having said that, 
it doesn't beat my custom Ti touring bike built based on the 1993 
Bridgestone RB-1 geometry on climbs up hills or stability on descents (the 
higher BB on the Roadini is to blame). What I do find is that with 38mm 
tires it is an excellent gravel bike and I have no issues taking it down 
single track  trails that others would consider MTB trails. The Tektro 559s 
outperform any disc brakes I've ever found and never make noise (unlike any 
disc brakes I've ever ridden).

I did buy another 50cm Roadini to build up for my son when he's tall enough 
to ride it (which won't take a year), so that tells you that I think it's 
the best general purpose bike in the Rivendell stable. The bike is so 
versatile I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere except a dedicated 
downhill MTB park.
On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
> Ram for a short time. 
>
> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>
> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
> group.. 
>
> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
> to move? 
>
> Thanks,
> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Chris Fly]

Thanks Tony!

I do have the Homer set up with drop bars, but since it was my Dad's, it's 
not exactly my perfect size and it's a 650b model (not sure if they all 
were) and I don't want to change much of the bike as it was my Dad's (he 
had Alt bars on it). 

Good to know you are enjoying your Roadini.. I don't mind welds and they 
don't look too bad from the pics.. :) 

Thanks.
Chris 

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 3:02:27 PM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> Hi Chris,
> Thanks for sharing your story. I’m sorry to hear about your dad’s passing 
> however I’m happy to hear that his bike is being put to good use. 
>
> To answer your question, I’ll verify that the Leo is fast(ish), as you put 
> it. I just bought one and have about 150 miles on it. 
>
> Having run a hundred different setups on my Sam during the past 14 years, 
> I’ll just add that you can set up your Homer to be fast(ish). But if you’re 
> itching for a new bike, the Roadini is great. Definitely less flex in the 
> rear triangle with out of the saddle climbs. If you’ve got a type A 
> personality, you’ll think the welds in the Leo look sloppy. Nothing beats a 
> gorgeous, lugged frame….but if you care about something reliable and fun, 
> definitely not sluggish, and beautifully quirky, the Roadini is the way to 
> go. 
>
> Happy trails, Tony
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Howdy all,
>>
>> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
>> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
>> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
>> Ram for a short time. 
>>
>> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
>> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
>> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
>> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
>> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>>
>> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
>> group.. 
>>
>> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
>> to move? 
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Feedback

[Tony Lockhart]

Hi Chris,
Thanks for sharing your story. I’m sorry to hear about your dad’s passing 
however I’m happy to hear that his bike is being put to good use. 

To answer your question, I’ll verify that the Leo is fast(ish), as you put 
it. I just bought one and have about 150 miles on it. 

Having run a hundred different setups on my Sam during the past 14 years, 
I’ll just add that you can set up your Homer to be fast(ish). But if you’re 
itching for a new bike, the Roadini is great. Definitely less flex in the 
rear triangle with out of the saddle climbs. If you’ve got a type A 
personality, you’ll think the welds in the Leo look sloppy. Nothing beats a 
gorgeous, lugged frame….but if you care about something reliable and fun, 
definitely not sluggish, and beautifully quirky, the Roadini is the way to 
go. 

Happy trails, Tony




On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 9:54:56 AM UTC-8 four...@gmail.com wrote:

> Howdy all,
>
> So I realize I'm posting this on the RBW list, so there is bound to be 
> some bias and that's ok.. ;) I'm a Riv owner myself with a current AHH I 
> got from my Dad when he passed and have previously owned a Bleriot and a 
> Ram for a short time. 
>
> So, my question is simple- does the Roadini feel fast(ish) when riding? 
> I'm sure builds vary and so weight will vary, but I know some bikes can 
> weigh a bit more and still feel "quick".. to be fair, I'm no racer, but I 
> like a bike to feel good when I stand up to pedal or am zipping around at 
> my, fast for me, 18-19 mph.. 
>
> I would be looking to build up with drop bars BTW with a modern-ish 
> group.. 
>
> Finally, anyone have a 50cm frameset (or complete maybe) they are looking 
> to move? 
>
> Thanks,
> Chris is Sonoma County, CA :) 
>

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Ted Durant]

On Monday, January 1, 2024 at 11:38:19 PM UTC-6 Tony Lockhart wrote:

@Ted - Glad you'll be in town soon. Hoping you can carve out some time for 
a group ride. You mentioned that your daughter has a Riv, right?

I have a Sam Hillborne in her garage. And a Space Horse (which could be for 
sale if anyone is interested). She has a Trek 310 (Reynolds 531 main 
tubes!).

Looking forward to hopefully seeing a few people there.

Ted Durant 
Milwaukee WI USA

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Tony Lockhart]

Apologies if flashing GIF is annoying; you can tell that both bikes are 
VERY similar in size. The Leo rides just as predictably as the Sam, with 
minimal differences. Out of the saddle climbs are more efficient on the 
Leo, and it's not as squirrely with steering as the Sam on slow rolls. The 
Leo tracks a lot better. I will say that the Leo was immediately familiar 
with all of the best riding characteristics just like the Sam. Very curious 
to see how the Leo handles on 40mm tires.


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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Ted Durant]

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 5:21:42 PM UTC-6 Neale S. wrote:

 from Glassell Park, hope to see you out there. Sounds like we need 
another L.A. Riv Ride soon.


I will be in San Gabriel 2/11-2/17 and my West Coast Sam would enjoy 
meeting some relatives.

Ted Durant
Milwaukee WI USA 

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Neale S.]

 from Glassell Park, hope to see you out there. Sounds like we need 
another L.A. Riv Ride soon.

On Sunday, December 31, 2023 at 3:31:44 PM UTC-5 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> [image: IMG_2762.jpeg]Bike handles like a dream. Kinda of feel like I’ve 
> been riding it my entire life. It’s comfy, predictable, climbs efficiently, 
> and sprightly. Couldn’t be happier. 
>
>
> On Saturday, December 30, 2023 at 10:06:37 AM UTC-8 RichS wrote:
>
>> Tony, that is a nice pairing of Rivs. Like yours my 2013 Sam Hillborne 
>> has been a flawless rider since day one. I suspect your Roadini will be a 
>> touch lighter and give you as much pleasure as your orange Sam. Happy 
>> trails!
>>
>> Best,
>> Rich in ATL
>>
>> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 12:43:00 PM UTC-5 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>
>>> [image: IMG_2735.jpeg][image: IMG_2734.jpeg]Alright—now the fun starts! 
>>> The Leo arrived last night, so it got a healthy dose of Frame Saver. I’m 
>>> going to build most of it this morning. Still waiting for a Silver triple 
>>> crank and some chain wax to arrive. Should be ready to roll tomorrow. 
>>>
>>> Including color comparison images to show dark gold versus the orange on 
>>> my Sam. Took forever to choose between the Sergio green and dark gold but I 
>>> couldn’t be happier with my choice. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>>
 Last post for the intro...promise! 


 SAM BUILD
 After purchasing parts last week, I set this bike up as a 2x8 flat bar 
 build with Swift Industries bags and a Wald basket. This is will be for 
 biking with family, getting in fitness rides, doing grocery shopping, 
 coffee outside vibes, and running errands around town. Heckmaybe even 
 some fenders and a kickstand.

 LEO BUILD
 This will be a 3x8 drop bar build set up for 40-60ish mile road rides 
 on the weekend. It'll use an old set of OpenPro/Ultegra with some 
 Panaracers Pasellas. In terms of luggage, it'll get a Swift Industries 
 Kestral mounted to a Velo Orange decalleur and a tool roll under the 
 saddle. Might be cool as a Rando bike but free time in the saddle is 
 limited at this point in my life.


 Please stay tuned if you have any interest in seeing a comfy road build 
 take shape. I'll definitely share insights during and after the build, 
 especially as I get acclimated to the new bike. Cheers and Happy New Year!

 Tony






 On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:03:35 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> At any rate, the numbers between both frames look pretty similar. 
> Seems like the chainstay on the Leo is 1.7cm shorter than the Sam and the 
> HT/ST angles have a 0.5 degree variation. My guess is that both will feel 
> pretty neutral in handling and I fully expect any Riv to ride amazingly, 
> so 
> I'm not that worried about it. Given the difference in tire size, and 
> lack 
> of luggage on the Roadini, I expect it to feel zippier than my trusty Sam.
> [image: IMG_2718.jpeg]
> *Parts Bin*
> So, I've been building an admirable collection of parts over the years 
> and I finally accumulated enough to build a second bike. Here's a 
> screenshot of the spreadsheet I made to help determine which parts to 
> buy, 
> indicated in yellow highlighting.
> [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-26 at 10.26.45 AM.png]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[RichS]

Tony, that is a nice pairing of Rivs. Like yours my 2013 Sam Hillborne has 
been a flawless rider since day one. I suspect your Roadini will be a touch 
lighter and give you as much pleasure as your orange Sam. Happy trails!

Best,
Rich in ATL

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 12:43:00 PM UTC-5 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> [image: IMG_2735.jpeg][image: IMG_2734.jpeg]Alright—now the fun starts! 
> The Leo arrived last night, so it got a healthy dose of Frame Saver. I’m 
> going to build most of it this morning. Still waiting for a Silver triple 
> crank and some chain wax to arrive. Should be ready to roll tomorrow. 
>
> Including color comparison images to show dark gold versus the orange on 
> my Sam. Took forever to choose between the Sergio green and dark gold but I 
> couldn’t be happier with my choice. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>
>> Last post for the intro...promise! 
>>
>>
>> SAM BUILD
>> After purchasing parts last week, I set this bike up as a 2x8 flat bar 
>> build with Swift Industries bags and a Wald basket. This is will be for 
>> biking with family, getting in fitness rides, doing grocery shopping, 
>> coffee outside vibes, and running errands around town. Heckmaybe even 
>> some fenders and a kickstand.
>>
>> LEO BUILD
>> This will be a 3x8 drop bar build set up for 40-60ish mile road rides on 
>> the weekend. It'll use an old set of OpenPro/Ultegra with some Panaracers 
>> Pasellas. In terms of luggage, it'll get a Swift Industries Kestral mounted 
>> to a Velo Orange decalleur and a tool roll under the saddle. Might be cool 
>> as a Rando bike but free time in the saddle is limited at this point in my 
>> life.
>>
>>
>> Please stay tuned if you have any interest in seeing a comfy road build 
>> take shape. I'll definitely share insights during and after the build, 
>> especially as I get acclimated to the new bike. Cheers and Happy New Year!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:03:35 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>
>>> At any rate, the numbers between both frames look pretty similar. Seems 
>>> like the chainstay on the Leo is 1.7cm shorter than the Sam and the HT/ST 
>>> angles have a 0.5 degree variation. My guess is that both will feel pretty 
>>> neutral in handling and I fully expect any Riv to ride amazingly, so I'm 
>>> not that worried about it. Given the difference in tire size, and lack of 
>>> luggage on the Roadini, I expect it to feel zippier than my trusty Sam.
>>> [image: IMG_2718.jpeg]
>>> *Parts Bin*
>>> So, I've been building an admirable collection of parts over the years 
>>> and I finally accumulated enough to build a second bike. Here's a 
>>> screenshot of the spreadsheet I made to help determine which parts to buy, 
>>> indicated in yellow highlighting.
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-26 at 10.26.45 AM.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Brian Cunningham]

Congrats, Tony! 

I'm just a few miles away in Glendale and have an orange Roadini from a 
previous batch. Know a fellow named Dean in Eagle Rock who has one from the 
new gold run, and it does look great. I'd have a hard time choosing between 
that and the green as well. Both are really nice shades.

Feel free to email me if you'd like to do a little Riv meetup for folks in 
the NELA area...

Cheers,

Brian

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 10:15:20 AM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That would have been a tough call for me, too, both colors are awesome. 
> Dark Gold it is! Congrats on your new Riv, looking forward to the build. 
>
> On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 9:43:00 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>
>> [image: IMG_2735.jpeg][image: IMG_2734.jpeg]Alright—now the fun starts! 
>> The Leo arrived last night, so it got a healthy dose of Frame Saver. I’m 
>> going to build most of it this morning. Still waiting for a Silver triple 
>> crank and some chain wax to arrive. Should be ready to roll tomorrow. 
>>
>> Including color comparison images to show dark gold versus the orange on 
>> my Sam. Took forever to choose between the Sergio green and dark gold but I 
>> couldn’t be happier with my choice. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>
>>> Last post for the intro...promise! 
>>>
>>>
>>> SAM BUILD
>>> After purchasing parts last week, I set this bike up as a 2x8 flat bar 
>>> build with Swift Industries bags and a Wald basket. This is will be for 
>>> biking with family, getting in fitness rides, doing grocery shopping, 
>>> coffee outside vibes, and running errands around town. Heckmaybe even 
>>> some fenders and a kickstand.
>>>
>>> LEO BUILD
>>> This will be a 3x8 drop bar build set up for 40-60ish mile road rides on 
>>> the weekend. It'll use an old set of OpenPro/Ultegra with some Panaracers 
>>> Pasellas. In terms of luggage, it'll get a Swift Industries Kestral mounted 
>>> to a Velo Orange decalleur and a tool roll under the saddle. Might be cool 
>>> as a Rando bike but free time in the saddle is limited at this point in my 
>>> life.
>>>
>>>
>>> Please stay tuned if you have any interest in seeing a comfy road build 
>>> take shape. I'll definitely share insights during and after the build, 
>>> especially as I get acclimated to the new bike. Cheers and Happy New Year!
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:03:35 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>>
 At any rate, the numbers between both frames look pretty similar. Seems 
 like the chainstay on the Leo is 1.7cm shorter than the Sam and the HT/ST 
 angles have a 0.5 degree variation. My guess is that both will feel pretty 
 neutral in handling and I fully expect any Riv to ride amazingly, so I'm 
 not that worried about it. Given the difference in tire size, and lack of 
 luggage on the Roadini, I expect it to feel zippier than my trusty Sam.
 [image: IMG_2718.jpeg]
 *Parts Bin*
 So, I've been building an admirable collection of parts over the years 
 and I finally accumulated enough to build a second bike. Here's a 
 screenshot of the spreadsheet I made to help determine which parts to buy, 
 indicated in yellow highlighting.
 [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-26 at 10.26.45 AM.png]




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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Joe Bernard]

That would have been a tough call for me, too, both colors are awesome. 
Dark Gold it is! Congrats on your new Riv, looking forward to the build. 

On Friday, December 29, 2023 at 9:43:00 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> [image: IMG_2735.jpeg][image: IMG_2734.jpeg]Alright—now the fun starts! 
> The Leo arrived last night, so it got a healthy dose of Frame Saver. I’m 
> going to build most of it this morning. Still waiting for a Silver triple 
> crank and some chain wax to arrive. Should be ready to roll tomorrow. 
>
> Including color comparison images to show dark gold versus the orange on 
> my Sam. Took forever to choose between the Sergio green and dark gold but I 
> couldn’t be happier with my choice. 
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:04:17 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>
>> Last post for the intro...promise! 
>>
>>
>> SAM BUILD
>> After purchasing parts last week, I set this bike up as a 2x8 flat bar 
>> build with Swift Industries bags and a Wald basket. This is will be for 
>> biking with family, getting in fitness rides, doing grocery shopping, 
>> coffee outside vibes, and running errands around town. Heckmaybe even 
>> some fenders and a kickstand.
>>
>> LEO BUILD
>> This will be a 3x8 drop bar build set up for 40-60ish mile road rides on 
>> the weekend. It'll use an old set of OpenPro/Ultegra with some Panaracers 
>> Pasellas. In terms of luggage, it'll get a Swift Industries Kestral mounted 
>> to a Velo Orange decalleur and a tool roll under the saddle. Might be cool 
>> as a Rando bike but free time in the saddle is limited at this point in my 
>> life.
>>
>>
>> Please stay tuned if you have any interest in seeing a comfy road build 
>> take shape. I'll definitely share insights during and after the build, 
>> especially as I get acclimated to the new bike. Cheers and Happy New Year!
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:03:35 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:
>>
>>> At any rate, the numbers between both frames look pretty similar. Seems 
>>> like the chainstay on the Leo is 1.7cm shorter than the Sam and the HT/ST 
>>> angles have a 0.5 degree variation. My guess is that both will feel pretty 
>>> neutral in handling and I fully expect any Riv to ride amazingly, so I'm 
>>> not that worried about it. Given the difference in tire size, and lack of 
>>> luggage on the Roadini, I expect it to feel zippier than my trusty Sam.
>>> [image: IMG_2718.jpeg]
>>> *Parts Bin*
>>> So, I've been building an admirable collection of parts over the years 
>>> and I finally accumulated enough to build a second bike. Here's a 
>>> screenshot of the spreadsheet I made to help determine which parts to buy, 
>>> indicated in yellow highlighting.
>>> [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-26 at 10.26.45 AM.png]
>>>
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: ROADINI in South Pasadena

[Tony Lockhart]

Last post for the intro...promise! 


SAM BUILD
After purchasing parts last week, I set this bike up as a 2x8 flat bar 
build with Swift Industries bags and a Wald basket. This is will be for 
biking with family, getting in fitness rides, doing grocery shopping, 
coffee outside vibes, and running errands around town. Heckmaybe even 
some fenders and a kickstand.

LEO BUILD
This will be a 3x8 drop bar build set up for 40-60ish mile road rides on 
the weekend. It'll use an old set of OpenPro/Ultegra with some Panaracers 
Pasellas. In terms of luggage, it'll get a Swift Industries Kestral mounted 
to a Velo Orange decalleur and a tool roll under the saddle. Might be cool 
as a Rando bike but free time in the saddle is limited at this point in my 
life.


Please stay tuned if you have any interest in seeing a comfy road build 
take shape. I'll definitely share insights during and after the build, 
especially as I get acclimated to the new bike. Cheers and Happy New Year!

Tony






On Tuesday, December 26, 2023 at 11:03:35 AM UTC-8 Tony Lockhart wrote:

> At any rate, the numbers between both frames look pretty similar. Seems 
> like the chainstay on the Leo is 1.7cm shorter than the Sam and the HT/ST 
> angles have a 0.5 degree variation. My guess is that both will feel pretty 
> neutral in handling and I fully expect any Riv to ride amazingly, so I'm 
> not that worried about it. Given the difference in tire size, and lack of 
> luggage on the Roadini, I expect it to feel zippier than my trusty Sam.
> [image: IMG_2718.jpeg]
> *Parts Bin*
> So, I've been building an admirable collection of parts over the years and 
> I finally accumulated enough to build a second bike. Here's a screenshot of 
> the spreadsheet I made to help determine which parts to buy, indicated in 
> yellow highlighting.
> [image: Screen Shot 2023-12-26 at 10.26.45 AM.png]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Stephen]

Hi Cat, whereabouts new york are you? I'm in Brooklyn and would be down to 
help troubleshoot. I'm by no means a professional, but have done lots of 
futzing with my friction drivetrains and solving odd problems. 

-Stephen

On Thursday, September 7, 2023 at 4:16:42 PM UTC-4 Wesley wrote:

> Hi Cat,
> Sorry to hear about your frustrations. The last time this happened to me, 
> I futzed with it for too long before giving up and replacing the cassette, 
> chain rings, and chain all together. That solved it. Just for the record: 
> you have replaced the cracked rim, yes?
>
> As for 1x, in my opinion you should keep the front derailer. Maybe just 
> don't shift the front for a while (until you're satisfied that everything 
> is working properly at the back).
> -Wes
>
> On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:
>
>> Hi RBW group!
>>
>> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
>> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
>> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
>> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
>> some 
>> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>>
>> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
>> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
>> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
>> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>>
>> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
>> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
>> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
>> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
>> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
>> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
>> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
>> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
>> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
>> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
>> replacement.
>>
>> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the 
>> OCA coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
>> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
>> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
>> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
>> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
>> properly. I’m wondering:
>>
>> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
>> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>>
>> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
>> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
>> happy to provide refreshments :)
>>
>> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
>> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
>> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
>> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
>> issues, but this might be easier
>>
>> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
>> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
>> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
>> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>>
>> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
>> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
>> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>>
>> Cat
>>
>> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>>
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Wesley]

Hi Cat,
Sorry to hear about your frustrations. The last time this happened to me, I 
futzed with it for too long before giving up and replacing the cassette, 
chain rings, and chain all together. That solved it. Just for the record: 
you have replaced the cracked rim, yes?

As for 1x, in my opinion you should keep the front derailer. Maybe just 
don't shift the front for a while (until you're satisfied that everything 
is working properly at the back).
-Wes

On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:

> Hi RBW group!
>
> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
> some 
> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>
> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>
> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
> replacement.
>
> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the OCA 
> coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
> properly. I’m wondering:
>
> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>
> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
> happy to provide refreshments :)
>
> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
> issues, but this might be easier
>
> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>
> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>
> Cat
>
> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini Shifting Problems

[Bill Lindsay]

It's clear to me that your bike needs to spend some time in the stand with 
a good mechanic -AND- with a good build-curator.  It would be nice if both 
those people were the same person, but the skillsets are definitely 
distinct from one-another.  A good mechanic can get the best out of what 
you have.  A good build-curator can see the mistakes previously made in a 
build, and will know what needs to be discarded and kept to get you to a 
better build configuration.  

The lousy front shifting seems to me that a poor choice was made with the 
combination of the crankset, front shifter, front derailleur and chain. 
 One or more of those parts were a poor choice.  That whole combo needs to 
be rethought, especially since your front derailleur is toast.  

2x8 seems to be a mistake as well, given that the rear derailleur in the 
photo is not an 8sp rear derailleur.  That should be rethought also

I worry that your replacement Shimano wheel set on a Campy bike was also a 
step in the wrong direction.  

The entire build needs a rethink, IMO.  My guess is that the initial build 
was executed on a faulty build concept.  Hopefully you can keep most of 
what's there, but the whole build concept needs a reboot, IMO.  Build 
concepts are free, thankfully.  Executing a build is usually not free (but 
sometimes it is!).

Bill Lindsay
El Cerrito, CA
On Wednesday, September 6, 2023 at 7:04:57 PM UTC-7 Catherina Gioino wrote:

> Hi RBW group!
>
> My name’s Cat and I posted a few months ago about an earlier iteration of 
> the same problem I’m still having: my Roadini has had trouble shifting both 
> front and rear since I first acquired it over a year ago. I purchased it 
> from the original owner, who had built it up with nice Campy components-- 
> some 
> pictures of the initial setup and the current configuration are below.
>
> It’s set up 2x8, and at first, the front would barely shift to the small 
> ring at all (often not at all), and the chain would pretty frequently jump 
> off if I even lightly overshifted. Then, the rear wheel (Velocity A23) 
> developed a series of large cracks on the rim.
>
> My partner and his dad (who both have Rivs and got me into this mess, 
> haha) tried to fix the problems by first adjusting the limit screws, and 
> when that only made things worse and we discovered the cracked rim, we put 
> on a Shimano cassette, replaced the wheelset with a Shimano-compatible set 
> of A23s, and replaced the chain, on the theory that the original chain was 
> too narrow for the original Campy cassette, letting it slip between the 
> rings. This marginally helped, but still didn’t solve the issues, so then I 
> had my local bike shop put in a wider bottom bracket, because they noticed 
> that the front crank was essentially scraping the front derailleur and 
> couldn’t be adjusted any further— they suggested the bottom bracket 
> replacement.
>
> This didn’t work because on my first real ride post the fixes, (on the OCA 
> coming back from the Tappan Zee for that guy on a Homer who waved!) the 
> front derailleur cage snapped. I was able to ride home, but now I need to 
> at minimum replace my front derailleur, and while I’m at it, would like to 
> fix the larger problems— the rear and front shifting. I love my bike, and 
> tend to ride through issues, but it would be great to be able to shift 
> properly. I’m wondering:
>
> 1) If anyone has any general or specific advice given what I’ve detailed, 
> or any questions that might help diagnose the problem
>
> 2) If anyone in New York would be willing to come take a look at it and 
> try to help figure out the problem— it could be a fun project, and I’m 
> happy to provide refreshments :)
>
> 3) If I do need to switch the entire drivetrain, should I move to a 1x so 
> I don’t run into more front derailleur problems? I tend to ride mostly in 
> my higher gears anyway, so I could just move to a 1x with a wider-range 
> cassette and stick with my 44 in front. I know 1x can come with its own 
> issues, but this might be easier
>
> 4) I’m Italian, and so I have a slight but unavoidable aesthetic 
> preference for sticking with Campy parts; does anyone have thoughts about 
> how I might do this, or should I give up and switch to more standard 
> Shimano or SRAM, which won’t look as nice but might function better
>
> Thanks so much for reading and for any help or advice! I’m kind of at a 
> loss, and would love to ride my beloved Leo without worrying about whether 
> my front derailleur will blow up again.
>
> Cat
>
> [image: IMG_1018.jpg][image: 715737051.jpg]
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[藍俊彪]

> I love the orange Roadinis and I really like your build.  Some may not
> agree, but there is something about a bike whose rider pushes it beyond its
> design intent.Is that an Shimano Ultegra crank that's you've set up as
> a 1x? Looks good,
>
> That is indeed an Ultegra SL triple crank retrofitted with  a Wolftooth
38t chainring.

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[John Bokman]

Piaw, thanks for the comments and pictures! Looks like you're having loads 
of fun.

I would likely be running  downtube shifters and a 2x with a long cage 
derailieur to get my low gears. You must be running, what,  an 11x50? I'm 
sorry for the redundant question if it's listed on the website,  but are 
these oversized tubes? They look to be 28.6cm at least? Yet you still feel 
it is a compliant frame? (No judgement, just trying to decipher.)

On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 5:35:17 PM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here are some pictures of my Roadini: 
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/XO7eDWt_RaCyVFynaZsftA.vhwY43mas9VqIf5gM0Swqo
>
> The bike as pictured weighs 24 pounds. It was 21 pounds with no toolbag 
> and lighter wheels and 30mm tires. It's possible to get lighter steel (or 
> titanium) bikes, but then the costs go up dramatically as you're likely to 
> have to go custom with correspondingly high wait times.
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:26 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the review! As a daily drop-bar Sam rider, I'm well accustomed 
>> to the Rivendell ride. It's been a great bike for my uses: commuting, heavy 
>> loading. But, as a light (155# @ 6 foot tall), spinner,  I wish for a bike 
>> that is lighter, less stiff, and more flexible to ride when I want to 
>> charge hills and generally explore at speed on day rides. I am interested 
>> in this frame for these reasons. But I hesitate because I'm not sure of the 
>> tubing specs. I don't want it to be too much bike for me! Sam is less than 
>> ideal on the rides I imagine doing on the Roadini.
>>
>> I'd love to see some photos of your machine if you have any available.
>>
>> John
>> Portland, OR
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 10:04:16 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it 
>>> that close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm 
>>> actual width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom 
>>> touring bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 
>>> with a longer chainstay and lower BB.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:
>>>
 Piaw,

 Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide 
 tires and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and 
 without fenders are? 

 Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap 
 (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience 
 TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the 
 Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It 
 gets rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I 
 know how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".

 IanA Alberta Canada
 On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html
>
> I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are 
> simply 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.
>
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>> .
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[Steve]

I love the orange Roadinis and I really like your build.  Some may not 
agree, but there is something about a bike whose rider pushes it beyond its 
design intent.Is that an Shimano Ultegra crank that's you've set up as 
a 1x? Looks good,
On Friday, May 19, 2023 at 8:35:17 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Here are some pictures of my Roadini: 
> https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/XO7eDWt_RaCyVFynaZsftA.vhwY43mas9VqIf5gM0Swqo
>
> The bike as pictured weighs 24 pounds. It was 21 pounds with no toolbag 
> and lighter wheels and 30mm tires. It's possible to get lighter steel (or 
> titanium) bikes, but then the costs go up dramatically as you're likely to 
> have to go custom with correspondingly high wait times.
>
> On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:26 PM John Bokman  wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the review! As a daily drop-bar Sam rider, I'm well accustomed 
>> to the Rivendell ride. It's been a great bike for my uses: commuting, heavy 
>> loading. But, as a light (155# @ 6 foot tall), spinner,  I wish for a bike 
>> that is lighter, less stiff, and more flexible to ride when I want to 
>> charge hills and generally explore at speed on day rides. I am interested 
>> in this frame for these reasons. But I hesitate because I'm not sure of the 
>> tubing specs. I don't want it to be too much bike for me! Sam is less than 
>> ideal on the rides I imagine doing on the Roadini.
>>
>> I'd love to see some photos of your machine if you have any available.
>>
>> John
>> Portland, OR
>>
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 10:04:16 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it 
>>> that close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm 
>>> actual width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom 
>>> touring bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 
>>> with a longer chainstay and lower BB.
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:
>>>
 Piaw,

 Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide 
 tires and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and 
 without fenders are? 

 Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap 
 (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience 
 TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the 
 Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It 
 gets rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I 
 know how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".

 IanA Alberta Canada
 On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html
>
> I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are 
> simply 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.
>
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 .

>>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[藍俊彪]

Here are some pictures of my Roadini:
https://www.amazon.com/photos/shared/XO7eDWt_RaCyVFynaZsftA.vhwY43mas9VqIf5gM0Swqo

The bike as pictured weighs 24 pounds. It was 21 pounds with no toolbag and
lighter wheels and 30mm tires. It's possible to get lighter steel (or
titanium) bikes, but then the costs go up dramatically as you're likely to
have to go custom with correspondingly high wait times.

On Fri, May 19, 2023 at 5:26 PM John Bokman  wrote:

> Thanks for the review! As a daily drop-bar Sam rider, I'm well accustomed
> to the Rivendell ride. It's been a great bike for my uses: commuting, heavy
> loading. But, as a light (155# @ 6 foot tall), spinner,  I wish for a bike
> that is lighter, less stiff, and more flexible to ride when I want to
> charge hills and generally explore at speed on day rides. I am interested
> in this frame for these reasons. But I hesitate because I'm not sure of the
> tubing specs. I don't want it to be too much bike for me! Sam is less than
> ideal on the rides I imagine doing on the Roadini.
>
> I'd love to see some photos of your machine if you have any available.
>
> John
> Portland, OR
>
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 10:04:16 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it
>> that close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm
>> actual width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom
>> touring bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1
>> with a longer chainstay and lower BB.
>>
>> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:
>>
>>> Piaw,
>>>
>>> Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide tires
>>> and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and
>>> without fenders are?
>>>
>>> Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap
>>> (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience
>>> TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the
>>> Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It
>>> gets rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I
>>> know how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".
>>>
>>> IanA Alberta Canada
>>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>>
 I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review:
 https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html

 I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are
 simply 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.

>>> --
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>>> .
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>>> 
>>> .
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[John Bokman]

Thanks for the review! As a daily drop-bar Sam rider, I'm well accustomed 
to the Rivendell ride. It's been a great bike for my uses: commuting, heavy 
loading. But, as a light (155# @ 6 foot tall), spinner,  I wish for a bike 
that is lighter, less stiff, and more flexible to ride when I want to 
charge hills and generally explore at speed on day rides. I am interested 
in this frame for these reasons. But I hesitate because I'm not sure of the 
tubing specs. I don't want it to be too much bike for me! Sam is less than 
ideal on the rides I imagine doing on the Roadini.

I'd love to see some photos of your machine if you have any available.

John
Portland, OR

On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 10:04:16 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it 
> that close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm 
> actual width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom 
> touring bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 
> with a longer chainstay and lower BB.
>
> On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:
>
>> Piaw,
>>
>> Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide tires 
>> and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and 
>> without fenders are? 
>>
>> Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap 
>> (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience 
>> TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the 
>> Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It gets 
>> rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I know 
>> how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".
>>
>> IanA Alberta Canada
>> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review: 
>>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html
>>>
>>> I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are simply 
>>> 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.
>>>
>> -- 
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[藍俊彪]

Max tire width according to Rivendell is 42mm. I don't like to push it that
close, so I think in practice I won't run anything more than 38mm actual
width. I have no TCO on the Roadini. The TCO exists on my custom touring
bike, which has a geometry copied from the 1993 Bridgestone RB-1 with a
longer chainstay and lower BB.

On Wed, May 17, 2023 at 9:55 AM Ian A  wrote:

> Piaw,
>
> Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide tires
> and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and
> without fenders are?
>
> Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap
> (TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience
> TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the
> Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It gets
> rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I know
> how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".
>
> IanA Alberta Canada
> On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review:
>> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html
>>
>> I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are simply
>> 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 1000 mile review

[Ian A]

Piaw,

Thank you for your review. You mention fitting nominally 40mm wide tires 
and I would be curious to know what the maximum tire widths with and 
without fenders are? 

Your review in the final paragraph draws reference to toe-clip overlap 
(TCO) and I was wondering if you could expand on that. Do you experience 
TCO on the Roadini?  I wasn't quite sure if you were referencing the 
Roadini or an idea for a custom in this snippet of the review "  It gets 
rid of the toe clip overlap (which doesn't bother me but now that I know 
how to solve it without making a bike handle badly".

IanA Alberta Canada
On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 9:54:06 AM UTC-6 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I've now ridden my Roadini for 1000 miles, and I wrote my review: 
> https://blog.piaw.net/2023/05/rivendell-roadini-1000-mile-review.html
>
> I think I'm agreeing with the folks who say that gravel bikes are simply 
> 1990s style mountain bikes with 700c wheels and 1x drivetrains.
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini ride quality

[Piaw Na]

I looked up the BMC Cross geometry and it has a higher BB and with bigger 
tires would ride even taller, which would lead to the feeling of 
instability at speed. I've never understood why gravel bikes that aren't 
going to jump logs are designed with such high BBs. It seems to me that the 
bigger the tire you intend to use, the lower the BB should be so you don't 
end up with the instability at speed that you describe. 

On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 9:20:56 AM UTC-8 Brady Smith wrote:

>
> I have the 2020 Roadini in 54cm. I would describe the ride quality as 
> "fabulous." By comparison, I also have a Black Mountain Cycles Monster 
> Cross that I set up for randonneuring. In most situations, I would say the 
> bikes are quite similar, even allowing for the fact that the BMC is shod in 
> 44mm Rene Herse tires and the Roadini currently has 32s. The biggest 
> difference I've discerned is in stability at speed. The BMC starts to feel 
> a little squirrelly north of 30 mph, never enough to be worrisome, but just 
> enough so that I don't push down canyons on that bike as hard as I do on 
> the Roadini, which is stable even beyond 40mph. I also think I can say that 
> the Roadini spared me significant injury on one occasion. Last summer I hit 
> something (an unseen rock or pothole, probably) coming down a steep hill at 
> maybe 25 mph, hard enough to knock me on to the top tube and bend the 
> handlebars down a bit. I remember thinking, "I am going to crash," but the 
> bike kept going in a straight line long enough for me to bring it to a 
> controlled stop. The front rim was dinged and I had to get out the allen 
> keys to put the bars back where they should be, but otherwise everything 
> was in good working order. Great bike. I can't ride it enough. 
>
> Brady in SLC
> On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 10:06:40 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I got the same frame and it rides great. I think the BB could be 5mm 
>> lower, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a production frame that's 
>> got a 80mm BB drop anyway. The bike handle greats on pavement and even 
>> better off pavement --- I've ridden it with 25mm tires, 30mm tires (which 
>> measured 28mm), and it now has 40mm tires (which measure 38mm) on it and I 
>> ride it on trails that other people ride mountain bikes on, but that I 
>> don't like driving to. I bought it as a backup bike for my custom touring 
>> frame and it serves very well for that.
>>
>> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 10:36:17 PM UTC-8 doug...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey everyone
>>>
>>> I've just gotten a Roadini 2022 frame in 54cm, looking to save up money 
>>> for parts and build it up slowly.
>>>
>>> I'm really excited- never owned a Riv before, much less a Roadini.
>>>
>>> For Roadini owners, how does it ride?
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Doug
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini ride quality

[Brady Smith]

I have the 2020 Roadini in 54cm. I would describe the ride quality as 
"fabulous." By comparison, I also have a Black Mountain Cycles Monster 
Cross that I set up for randonneuring. In most situations, I would say the 
bikes are quite similar, even allowing for the fact that the BMC is shod in 
44mm Rene Herse tires and the Roadini currently has 32s. The biggest 
difference I've discerned is in stability at speed. The BMC starts to feel 
a little squirrelly north of 30 mph, never enough to be worrisome, but just 
enough so that I don't push down canyons on that bike as hard as I do on 
the Roadini, which is stable even beyond 40mph. I also think I can say that 
the Roadini spared me significant injury on one occasion. Last summer I hit 
something (an unseen rock or pothole, probably) coming down a steep hill at 
maybe 25 mph, hard enough to knock me on to the top tube and bend the 
handlebars down a bit. I remember thinking, "I am going to crash," but the 
bike kept going in a straight line long enough for me to bring it to a 
controlled stop. The front rim was dinged and I had to get out the allen 
keys to put the bars back where they should be, but otherwise everything 
was in good working order. Great bike. I can't ride it enough. 

Brady in SLC
On Monday, February 27, 2023 at 10:06:40 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> I got the same frame and it rides great. I think the BB could be 5mm 
> lower, but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a production frame that's 
> got a 80mm BB drop anyway. The bike handle greats on pavement and even 
> better off pavement --- I've ridden it with 25mm tires, 30mm tires (which 
> measured 28mm), and it now has 40mm tires (which measure 38mm) on it and I 
> ride it on trails that other people ride mountain bikes on, but that I 
> don't like driving to. I bought it as a backup bike for my custom touring 
> frame and it serves very well for that.
>
> On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 10:36:17 PM UTC-8 doug...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey everyone
>>
>> I've just gotten a Roadini 2022 frame in 54cm, looking to save up money 
>> for parts and build it up slowly.
>>
>> I'm really excited- never owned a Riv before, much less a Roadini.
>>
>> For Roadini owners, how does it ride?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Doug
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini ride quality

[Piaw Na]

I got the same frame and it rides great. I think the BB could be 5mm lower, 
but I think you'll be hard pressed to find a production frame that's got a 
80mm BB drop anyway. The bike handle greats on pavement and even better off 
pavement --- I've ridden it with 25mm tires, 30mm tires (which measured 
28mm), and it now has 40mm tires (which measure 38mm) on it and I ride it 
on trails that other people ride mountain bikes on, but that I don't like 
driving to. I bought it as a backup bike for my custom touring frame and it 
serves very well for that.

On Sunday, February 26, 2023 at 10:36:17 PM UTC-8 doug...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey everyone
>
> I've just gotten a Roadini 2022 frame in 54cm, looking to save up money 
> for parts and build it up slowly.
>
> I'm really excited- never owned a Riv before, much less a Roadini.
>
> For Roadini owners, how does it ride?
>
> Cheers,
> Doug
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[藍俊彪]

Oh yeah. I've never enjoyed either having fenders on the bike or installing
them. One year while touring in Europe, I hit a bout of rain and went into
a bike shop that sold these amazing clip-ons. They were so easy to install
and remove and unlike traditional full fenders never make the
scritch-scritch sound when riding off pavement when rocks get thrown onto
them. Since then I've switched to using those. Later on, I found SKS
clip-ons that work almost as well. I see that Rivendell has found similar
fenders and will be selling them soon.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 9:57 PM J J  wrote:

> Piaw, the installation in question was the fenders, not the Racer brakes,
> which are not too arduous to install. The damaged brake was a casualty of
> the mechanic ostensibly fixing a poor fender installation. And yes,
> installing fenders had seemed challenging and overly time consuming for me
> — that’s why I paid someone to do it on the Wilbury.
>
> But since that ordeal, I forced myself to actually install a new set of
> fenders on my Hunq to accommodate fatter tires. I’m happy to say that I now
> feel totally comfortable doing it (though they are still fussy and a pain
> to install, however easy Mark makes it look in the video. I must have
> watched it 10 times!).
>
> Ryan, I have to give credit where it is due, and the shop owner, who works
> in a different city, was apologetic when he learned about what happened. He
> reached out to me and genuinely wanted to make things right. He committed
> to replacing the brakes. The challenge is actually *finding* new Racers,
> and so far none have appeared. (If anyone reading this has polished Racers
> they want to part with, please let me know!)
>
> I told the owner that the mechanic seemed so enthusiastic about working on
> a Rivendell. The owner said, “and therein lies the problem. Sure, everyone
> will be bright eyed and bushy tailed about working on such a bike, but that
> does not mean they are qualified to do everything and anything on them.” I
> appreciated his forthrightness, but it raised the question of why the shop
> would assign the work to someone who wasn’t necessarily qualified to do it
> right.
>
> Corwin, thanks so much for your note. Your characterization of Mark’s work
> as high art is absolutely apropos. He’s also incredibly accessible and
> generous with his time, help, and advice (as is everyone I have ever
> interacted with at Rivendell).
>
> Best wishes all.
>
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:58:36 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>
>> Here, here JJ! I agree completely. Having Mark do the build and set up my
>> bikes is one of the main reasons I buy bikes from Rivendell. Mark raises
>> wrenching on bikes to a very high form of art.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Corwin
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure
>>>
>>> BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that
>>> rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you
>>> without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice
>>> for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the
>>> Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation
>>> , and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top
>>> dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer
>>> probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if
>>> I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who
>>> does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had
>>> been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would
>>> have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone
>>> can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it
>>> that's important
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful.

 A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I
 picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting
 nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through
 the axle without clamping it down.

 On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>
> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a
> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I
> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing.
> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it.
> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to
> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy
> skewer.
>
> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Ryan]

I'm glad to hear the shop owner will make things right and I hope those 
polished Racers surface sometime soon. They are lovely looking brakes. But 
I wonder if the RH brakes would be an acceptable compromise? They do have 
the virtue of being available and if your current brakes are scratched, but 
still functionally fine, maybe you could sell them at a discounted price.

https://www.renehersecycles.com/product-category/components/brakes/ 

About Roadinis or any other current Riv frame offering...I know Will and co 
are selling them unprepped to move them and I didn't necessarily see 
prepping as an option , but it is available for a fee isn't it?

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 11:57:11 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> Piaw, the installation in question was the fenders, not the Racer brakes, 
> which are not too arduous to install. The damaged brake was a casualty of 
> the mechanic ostensibly fixing a poor fender installation. And yes, 
> installing fenders had seemed challenging and overly time consuming for me 
> — that’s why I paid someone to do it on the Wilbury. 
>
> But since that ordeal, I forced myself to actually install a new set of 
> fenders on my Hunq to accommodate fatter tires. I’m happy to say that I now 
> feel totally comfortable doing it (though they are still fussy and a pain 
> to install, however easy Mark makes it look in the video. I must have 
> watched it 10 times!).
>
> Ryan, I have to give credit where it is due, and the shop owner, who works 
> in a different city, was apologetic when he learned about what happened. He 
> reached out to me and genuinely wanted to make things right. He committed 
> to replacing the brakes. The challenge is actually *finding* new Racers, 
> and so far none have appeared. (If anyone reading this has polished Racers 
> they want to part with, please let me know!)
>
> I told the owner that the mechanic seemed so enthusiastic about working on 
> a Rivendell. The owner said, “and therein lies the problem. Sure, everyone 
> will be bright eyed and bushy tailed about working on such a bike, but that 
> does not mean they are qualified to do everything and anything on them.” I 
> appreciated his forthrightness, but it raised the question of why the shop 
> would assign the work to someone who wasn’t necessarily qualified to do it 
> right. 
>
> Corwin, thanks so much for your note. Your characterization of Mark’s work 
> as high art is absolutely apropos. He’s also incredibly accessible and 
> generous with his time, help, and advice (as is everyone I have ever 
> interacted with at Rivendell).
>
> Best wishes all. 
>
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:58:36 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:
>
>> Here, here JJ! I agree completely. Having Mark do the build and set up my 
>> bikes is one of the main reasons I buy bikes from Rivendell. Mark raises 
>> wrenching on bikes to a very high form of art.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Corwin
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure
>>>
>>> BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that 
>>> rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you 
>>> without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice 
>>> for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the 
>>> Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation 
>>> , and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top 
>>> dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer 
>>> probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if 
>>> I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who 
>>> does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had 
>>> been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would 
>>> have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone 
>>> can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it 
>>> that's important
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 

 A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
 picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
 nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
 the axle without clamping it down.

 On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>
> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

Piaw, the installation in question was the fenders, not the Racer brakes, 
which are not too arduous to install. The damaged brake was a casualty of 
the mechanic ostensibly fixing a poor fender installation. And yes, 
installing fenders had seemed challenging and overly time consuming for me 
— that’s why I paid someone to do it on the Wilbury. 

But since that ordeal, I forced myself to actually install a new set of 
fenders on my Hunq to accommodate fatter tires. I’m happy to say that I now 
feel totally comfortable doing it (though they are still fussy and a pain 
to install, however easy Mark makes it look in the video. I must have 
watched it 10 times!).

Ryan, I have to give credit where it is due, and the shop owner, who works 
in a different city, was apologetic when he learned about what happened. He 
reached out to me and genuinely wanted to make things right. He committed 
to replacing the brakes. The challenge is actually *finding* new Racers, 
and so far none have appeared. (If anyone reading this has polished Racers 
they want to part with, please let me know!)

I told the owner that the mechanic seemed so enthusiastic about working on 
a Rivendell. The owner said, “and therein lies the problem. Sure, everyone 
will be bright eyed and bushy tailed about working on such a bike, but that 
does not mean they are qualified to do everything and anything on them.” I 
appreciated his forthrightness, but it raised the question of why the shop 
would assign the work to someone who wasn’t necessarily qualified to do it 
right. 

Corwin, thanks so much for your note. Your characterization of Mark’s work 
as high art is absolutely apropos. He’s also incredibly accessible and 
generous with his time, help, and advice (as is everyone I have ever 
interacted with at Rivendell).

Best wishes all. 


On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 10:58:36 PM UTC-4 cz...@sonic.net wrote:

> Here, here JJ! I agree completely. Having Mark do the build and set up my 
> bikes is one of the main reasons I buy bikes from Rivendell. Mark raises 
> wrenching on bikes to a very high form of art.
>
> Regards,
>
> Corwin
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure
>>
>> BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that 
>> rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you 
>> without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice 
>> for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the 
>> Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation 
>> , and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top 
>> dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer 
>> probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if 
>> I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who 
>> does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had 
>> been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would 
>> have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone 
>> can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it 
>> that's important
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 
>>>
>>> A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
>>> picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
>>> nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
>>> the axle without clamping it down.
>>>
>>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>>>
 Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.

 A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
 couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
 picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
 Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
 Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
 find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
 skewer. 

 No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended 
> over the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And 
> then it was like, wtf?!? 
>
> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was 
> an honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a 
> mere apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse 
> for 
> labor and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any 
> other finish) NOS Racers. It's been 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Corwin Zechar]

Here, here JJ! I agree completely. Having Mark do the build and set up my 
bikes is one of the main reasons I buy bikes from Rivendell. Mark raises 
wrenching on bikes to a very high form of art.

Regards,

Corwin

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:15:28 PM UTC-7 Ryan wrote:

> Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure
>
> BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that 
> rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you 
> without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice 
> for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the 
> Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation 
> , and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top 
> dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer 
> probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if 
> I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who 
> does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had 
> been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would 
> have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone 
> can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it 
> that's important
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 
>>
>> A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
>> picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
>> nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
>> the axle without clamping it down.
>>
>> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>>
>>> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>>>
>>> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
>>> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
>>> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
>>> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
>>> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
>>> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
>>> skewer. 
>>>
>>> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>>
 We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended 
 over the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And 
 then it was like, wtf?!? 

 The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
 honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
 apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for 
 labor 
 and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
 finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've 
 heard 
 nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about 
 Paul 
 Component resuming Racer production.

 It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the 
 interwebs, cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting 
 out WTB posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I 
 preempted the auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for 
 them. I wanted those brakes.

 Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it 
 was not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things 
 matter to bike nerds and to nerds in the making.

 Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that 
 if I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to 
 do any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if 
 it 
 meant waiting a while.

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my 
>> (very expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a 
>>> big 
>>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that 
>>> were in 
>>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Ryan]

Believe me...I was not best pleased, you may be sure

BTW, J J, I hope that you presented that bike shop with a bill for that 
rear brake you went to so much effort to find and they reimbursed you 
without demur. Those Paul Racers are not cheap. I see on my 2016 invoice 
for my mixte custom...assembled by Mark Abele (go with the best ) the 
Racers were 288.00. Mark's labor was 220.00 + 50.00 for fender installation 
, and in my opinion, worth every penny. I am more than happy to pay  top 
dollar for first-class work. On the other hand , the vanishing skewer 
probably speaks to not properly overseeing a junior mechanic's work , if 
I'm being charitable. I do know the shop's owner and he's a good guy who 
does a lot for cycling in the city, and I am reasonably sure that if I had 
been able to source a new rear skewer and showed him a receipt, he would 
have probably given me credit or cash, which would have been fine. Anyone 
can make a mistake; it's what the maker of the mistake does to remedy it 
that's important

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:54:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 
>
> A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
> picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
> nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
> the axle without clamping it down.
>
> On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:
>
>> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>>
>> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
>> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
>> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
>> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
>> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
>> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
>> skewer. 
>>
>> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>>
>>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
>>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
>>> was like, wtf?!? 
>>>
>>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
>>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
>>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
>>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
>>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
>>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
>>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>>
>>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
>>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
>>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
>>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
>>> those brakes.
>>>
>>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it 
>>> was not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things 
>>> matter to bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>>
>>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that 
>>> if I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to 
>>> do any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
>>> meant waiting a while.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
 that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
>> in 
>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>
>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. 
>> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown 
>> in 
>> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted 
>> to 
>> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake 
>> bridge 
>> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

That sucks about the 501 skewers, Ryan. Awful. 

A local shop once serviced a bike (and did a “safety check”) and when I 
picked it up I noticed that the quick release skewer springs and adjusting 
nut were missing from the front wheel. They just pushed the skewer through 
the axle without clamping it down.

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 3:21:32 PM UTC-4 Ryan wrote:

> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>
> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a 
> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I 
> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
> skewer. 
>
> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
>> was like, wtf?!? 
>>
>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>
>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
>> those brakes.
>>
>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
>> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
>> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>
>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
>> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
>> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
>> meant waiting a while.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
 expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
> in 
> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>
>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. 
> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown 
> in 
> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to 
> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge 
> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, 
> and despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't 
> have 
> been as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they 
> evidently 
> will be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened 
> regardless. 
>
> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and 
>> had 
>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), 
>> but 
>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and 
>> forget". 
>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
>> can't 
>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work 
>> myself 
>> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[藍俊彪]

Are the Paul's brakes particularly hard to install yourself? One reason why
I'm such an adamant adherent of the sidepull caliper is that it's
impossible to install wrong. I sold my Heron touring bike with Paul's Neo
Retros cantilever brakes in 2007 to a colleague of mine. She got another
friend to help build the bike up. He started the evening saying to her,
"Piaw has an irrational dislike of cantilever brakes." 4 hours later, he
was swearing at them and saying, "Ok, maybe not so irrational..."

On Fri, Sep 23, 2022 at 12:21 PM Ryan  wrote:

> Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.
>
> A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a
> couple of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I
> picked them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing.
> Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it.
> Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to
> find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy
> skewer.
>
> No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:
>
>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over
>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it
>> was like, wtf?!?
>>
>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an
>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere
>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor
>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other
>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard
>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul
>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>
>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs,
>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB
>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the
>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted
>> those brakes.
>>
>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was
>> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to
>> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>
>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if
>> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do
>> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it
>> meant waiting a while.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like
>>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very
 expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer.

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I
> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big
> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence,
> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
> in
> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>
>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances.
> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in
> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to
> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge
> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock,
> and despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have
> been as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently
> will be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened
> regardless.
>
> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled
>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had
>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot
>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I
>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but
>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget".
>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
>> can't
>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Ryan]

Yikes! I would be PISSED! That's inexcusable.

A few years ago I took in a set of wheels with Mavic 501 hubs with a couple 
of other pairs of wheels  for some truing to a local BS and when I picked 
them up, the rear wheel  Mavic QR skewer was inexplicably missing. 
Just...gone. Phoned said bike shop, and no... they couldn't find it. 
Offered a replacement skewer, and BTW , 501 skewers are not easy to 
find...although I have not checked recently, so I just used an old Campy 
skewer. 

No, I'm not cool with having that bike shop do more work for me

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:21:29 PM UTC-5 J J wrote:

> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
> was like, wtf?!? 
>
> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
> Component resuming Racer production.
>
> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
> those brakes.
>
> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>
> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
> meant waiting a while.
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
 totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
 difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
 recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
 in 
 earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)

  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
 me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
 attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
 the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
 arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
 despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have 
 been 
 as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
 be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 

 [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   

 On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
> can't 
> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
> brake pads too early than I am.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
>> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
>> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do 
>> work 
>> myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for 
>> sloppy 
>> work — or worse. 
>>
>> The most recent 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

Thanks for your note, Andy. I agree 100 percent. 

My partner *did* *intervene* before the damage occurred, asking the 
mechanic to put the bike on a stand and take the wheel off. He ignored her.

“Honest mistake”. Ugh. 

On Friday, September 23, 2022 at 7:54:59 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:

> More saintly than I would have been if standing there. 
>
> "Honest mistake" is the rationalization of a good samaritan not someone 
> with access to tools holding themself out as a mechanic. What was described 
> was a task in need of being done right by someone who didn't do so in the 
> first place. Instead of acknowledging their corner-cutting, inadequate 
> effort or skill by carefully doing it right the second time, they applied 
> the same slapdash degree of "wrenching". I would have called them out and 
> stopped things when pliers and a big screwdriver appeared. 
>
> What do people like that intend to do with any time they save by doing 
> work so poorly? 
>
> Andy Cheatham
> Pittsburgh
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 3:21:29 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:
>
>> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
>> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
>> was like, wtf?!? 
>>
>> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
>> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
>> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
>> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
>> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
>> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
>> Component resuming Racer production.
>>
>> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
>> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
>> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
>> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
>> those brakes.
>>
>> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
>> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
>> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>>
>> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
>> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
>> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
>> meant waiting a while.
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
 expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 

 On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
> in 
> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>
>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. 
> For me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown 
> in 
> the attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to 
> bend the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge 
> and arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, 
> and despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't 
> have 
> been as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they 
> evidently 
> will be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened 
> regardless. 
>
> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and 
>> had 
>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), 
>> but 
>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and 
>> forget". 
>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
>> can't 
>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work 
>> myself 
>> since frequently 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[ascpgh]

More saintly than I would have been if standing there. 

"Honest mistake" is the rationalization of a good samaritan not someone 
with access to tools holding themself out as a mechanic. What was described 
was a task in need of being done right by someone who didn't do so in the 
first place. Instead of acknowledging their corner-cutting, inadequate 
effort or skill by carefully doing it right the second time, they applied 
the same slapdash degree of "wrenching". I would have called them out and 
stopped things when pliers and a big screwdriver appeared. 

What do people like that intend to do with any time they save by doing work 
so poorly? 

Andy Cheatham
Pittsburgh
On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 3:21:29 PM UTC-4 J J wrote:

> We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
> the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
> was like, wtf?!? 
>
> The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
> honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
> apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
> and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
> finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
> nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
> Component resuming Racer production.
>
> It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
> cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
> posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
> auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
> those brakes.
>
> Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
> not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
> bike nerds and to nerds in the making.
>
> Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if 
> I had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do 
> any frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it 
> meant waiting a while.
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like 
>> that and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>>
>>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
 totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
 difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
 recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were 
 in 
 earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)

  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
 me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
 attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
 the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
 arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
 despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have 
 been 
 as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
 be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 

 [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   

 On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
> can't 
> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
> brake pads too early than I am.
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
>> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
>> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do 
>> work 
>> myself. I’m 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

We lost it, Joe. In the immediate aftermath, a quiet hush descended over 
the entire shop because everyone was shocked by what happened. And then it 
was like, wtf?!? 

The shop's first response was an unsatisfying and defensive, "it was an 
honest mistake," and they would have been content to settle it with a mere 
apology. After a lot of negotiation, the shop agreed to reimburse for labor 
and to replace the brakes — but good luck finding polished (or any other 
finish) NOS Racers. It's been three months since it happened and I've heard 
nothing but crickets. So I was super pleased with Eric's message about Paul 
Component resuming Racer production.

It had taken me nine months to find the brakes — scouring the interwebs, 
cold calling dozens of bike shops all over the country, putting out WTB 
posts. Finally a set appeared in an eBay auction listing. I preempted the 
auction by offering the seller a (very) pretty penny for them. I wanted 
those brakes.

Now... I have not lost perspective. This ordeal was upsetting, but it was 
not an issue of grave existential importance. Still, these things matter to 
bike nerds and to nerds in the making.

Getting back to the original theme of this thread, I'll reiterate that if I 
had the option, I would gladly and enthusiastically pay Rivendell to do any 
frame prep, builds, etc. over any of my local bike shops, even if it meant 
waiting a while.

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 2:26:36 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like that 
> and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
>> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>>
>> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were in 
>>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>>
>>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
>>> me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
>>> attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
>>> the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
>>> arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
>>> despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have been 
>>> as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
>>> be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 
>>>
>>> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
 Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
 to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
 less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
 can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
 my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
 But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I 
 can't 
 or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
 since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
 brake pads too early than I am.

 On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do 
> work 
> myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
> work — or worse. 
>
> The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on 
> which we had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find 
> polished version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video 
> showing fender installation and could they please check it out and follow 
> Mark’s method. 
>
> Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
> wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
> anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
> was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
> back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
> several employees, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Piaw Na]

Indeed. That's really appalling. I'm so glad my LBS is competent like that 
and would tell me if they can't actually do the work. T

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 11:05:04 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
> expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 
>
> On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>
>> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
>> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
>> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
>> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were in 
>> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>>
>>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For 
>> me the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
>> attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
>> the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
>> arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
>> despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have been 
>> as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
>> be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 
>>
>> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
>>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
>>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
>>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
>>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
>>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
>>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I can't 
>>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
>>> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
>>> brake pads too early than I am.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>>
 I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
 confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
 have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do work 
 myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
 work — or worse. 

 The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on which 
 we had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find polished 
 version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video showing 
 fender installation and could they please check it out and follow Mark’s 
 method. 

 Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
 wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
 anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
 was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
 back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
 several employees, including the shop manager, the mechanic tried to bend 
 the tab back using the Racer as leverage for his pliers. He did this 
 despite my partner telling him “shouldn’t you take it off before you do 
 that?” He totally ignored her, and in a second he put a gash into the the 
 brake bridge. Now we’re not precious about nicks and scratches. But this 
 was a deep gash on a brand new set of rare Racers, and it was horrible. 
 It’s 
 painful even recalling it. I regret that I didn’t intervene before he 
 ruined it (though again, he ignored my partner, which could be another 
 story for another thread about the contempt and condescension with which 
 many LBS mechanics and sales people treat women). 

 I think we have mythologized local bike shops. Sure, I’ve had some 
 great experiences. But the proof of the pudding is always in the tasting, 
 and recent experiences left me with extreme, long lasting  bitterness. 
 Local shops have forgotten to reattach brake cables after a service, left 
 the quick release skewers very loose, stripped threads, made adjustments 
 worse, I could go on and on — basic stuff that should not happen and that 
 have safety implications. It’s to the point that the only “local” shop I 
 trust anymore is about 50 miles away, even though I have at least 5 shops 
 within walking distance, a few blocks from where I live. I don’t want 
 shops 
 to use my bikes for training mechanics. It’s too unreliable. On top of 
 that, the local shops’ 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Joe Bernard]

That's appalling, I would have LOST it if someone did this to my (very 
expensive) Paul brakes. They owe you a new Racer. 

On Thursday, September 22, 2022 at 10:59:25 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> Sorry, just noticed your note on this week-old thread, Piaw. Yes, I 
> totally agree that anyone can make mistakes. I also think there is a big 
> difference between a genuinely innocent mistake and negligence, 
> recklessness, or incompetence. (Ignoring specific instructions that were in 
> earshot of the entire shop is an unfortunate instance of negligence.)
>
>  Where you draw the line is debatable and depends on circumstances. For me 
> the big gash, scratches, and dings on brand new brakes, as shown in the 
> attached pic, unequivocably cross the line. The mechanic attempted to bend 
> the fender hanger tab with pliers while pushing off the brake bridge and 
> arm, using them as leverage, as the entire shop looked on with shock, and 
> despite the fact that he was asked to do it properly. It wouldn't have been 
> as big a deal if the Racers were readily available (as they evidently will 
> be again in a few months), but this shouldn't have happened regardless. 
>
> [image: IMG_6141.jpg]   
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 1:15:28 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled 
>> Cheviot a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had 
>> to adjust the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot 
>> less forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I 
>> can build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but 
>> my definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". 
>> But I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I can't 
>> or don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
>> since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
>> brake pads too early than I am.
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:
>>
>>> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
>>> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
>>> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do work 
>>> myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
>>> work — or worse. 
>>>
>>> The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on which 
>>> we had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find polished 
>>> version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video showing 
>>> fender installation and could they please check it out and follow Mark’s 
>>> method. 
>>>
>>> Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
>>> wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
>>> anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
>>> was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
>>> back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
>>> several employees, including the shop manager, the mechanic tried to bend 
>>> the tab back using the Racer as leverage for his pliers. He did this 
>>> despite my partner telling him “shouldn’t you take it off before you do 
>>> that?” He totally ignored her, and in a second he put a gash into the the 
>>> brake bridge. Now we’re not precious about nicks and scratches. But this 
>>> was a deep gash on a brand new set of rare Racers, and it was horrible. 
>>> It’s 
>>> painful even recalling it. I regret that I didn’t intervene before he 
>>> ruined it (though again, he ignored my partner, which could be another 
>>> story for another thread about the contempt and condescension with which 
>>> many LBS mechanics and sales people treat women). 
>>>
>>> I think we have mythologized local bike shops. Sure, I’ve had some great 
>>> experiences. But the proof of the pudding is always in the tasting, and 
>>> recent experiences left me with extreme, long lasting  bitterness. Local 
>>> shops have forgotten to reattach brake cables after a service, left the 
>>> quick release skewers very loose, stripped threads, made adjustments worse, 
>>> I could go on and on — basic stuff that should not happen and that have 
>>> safety implications. It’s to the point that the only “local” shop I trust 
>>> anymore is about 50 miles away, even though I have at least 5 shops within 
>>> walking distance, a few blocks from where I live. I don’t want shops to use 
>>> my bikes for training mechanics. It’s too unreliable. On top of that, the 
>>> local shops’ labor rates are not less than Rivendell’s rates, and in my 
>>> area, they are often *more*, adding insult to injury. For me it’s a 
>>> no-brainer to pay Rivendell to do the work, pay extra for repacking, and so 
>>> on. I don’t mean to rag on LBSs, though. I’m just sharing my actual 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Piaw Na]

Anyone can make mistakes. When we got my wife's Rivendell-assembled Cheviot 
a few years back, I ended up having to re-tighten the FD, and had to adjust 
the shifters several times. It's not a big deal. I'd be a lot less 
forgiving of frame prep failures. I'm a good enough mechanic that I can 
build wheels myself (and used to teach wheel-building workshops), but my 
definite preference is for parts and bikes that are "fire and forget". But 
I'm also blessed to have good mechanics at LBSes for times when I can't or 
don't have time to fix something myself. I still try to do work myself 
since frequently they're much more aggressive about replacing parts like 
brake pads too early than I am.

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:39:10 AM UTC-7 J J wrote:

> I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
> confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
> have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do work 
> myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
> work — or worse. 
>
> The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on which we 
> had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find polished 
> version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video showing 
> fender installation and could they please check it out and follow Mark’s 
> method. 
>
> Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
> wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
> anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
> was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
> back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
> several employees, including the shop manager, the mechanic tried to bend 
> the tab back using the Racer as leverage for his pliers. He did this 
> despite my partner telling him “shouldn’t you take it off before you do 
> that?” He totally ignored her, and in a second he put a gash into the the 
> brake bridge. Now we’re not precious about nicks and scratches. But this 
> was a deep gash on a brand new set of rare Racers, and it was horrible. It’s 
> painful even recalling it. I regret that I didn’t intervene before he 
> ruined it (though again, he ignored my partner, which could be another 
> story for another thread about the contempt and condescension with which 
> many LBS mechanics and sales people treat women). 
>
> I think we have mythologized local bike shops. Sure, I’ve had some great 
> experiences. But the proof of the pudding is always in the tasting, and 
> recent experiences left me with extreme, long lasting  bitterness. Local 
> shops have forgotten to reattach brake cables after a service, left the 
> quick release skewers very loose, stripped threads, made adjustments worse, 
> I could go on and on — basic stuff that should not happen and that have 
> safety implications. It’s to the point that the only “local” shop I trust 
> anymore is about 50 miles away, even though I have at least 5 shops within 
> walking distance, a few blocks from where I live. I don’t want shops to use 
> my bikes for training mechanics. It’s too unreliable. On top of that, the 
> local shops’ labor rates are not less than Rivendell’s rates, and in my 
> area, they are often *more*, adding insult to injury. For me it’s a 
> no-brainer to pay Rivendell to do the work, pay extra for repacking, and so 
> on. I don’t mean to rag on LBSs, though. I’m just sharing my actual 
> experiences and thoughts. 
>
> I suppose one good outcome of these crappy experiences is that it’s 
> compelled me to invest in tools and put in time to learn skills. This forum 
> has been a great educator, too. So thanks, forum!! I’m sorry this veered a 
> lot from the original post topic. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:27:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I don't even know where my LBS is, I work on my own bikes. I assume Riv 
>> is still prepping their frames for an extra fee, I would pay it. 
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:22:57 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 8:15 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
 To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not 
 sad about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped 
 frames on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be 
 prepped. It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new 
 Roadini frame out there people can buy. 

 I'm surprised at the number of people here who can't trust their LBS to 
>>> prep a frame. Is it because the modern CF/AL frames don't need prepping? I 
>>> certainly don't have a frame alignment table or a derailleur hanger 
>>> straightener, much less the tool required to prep a headtube prior to 
>>> installing headset and fork. It's been years since I carried a headset 
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[J J]

I would happily pay extra for Riv to prep a frame. I have absolute 
confidence in their work. There are lots of bike shops in my area that I 
have gone to when I didn’t have the time, tools, or inclination to do work 
myself. I’m stunned by how consistently they can be counted on for sloppy 
work — or worse. 

The most recent example was a fender installation on a Wilbury on which we 
had just installed a NOS set of Paul Racers (the hard to find polished 
version). I told the shop that Rivendell has a detailed video showing 
fender installation and could they please check it out and follow Mark’s 
method. 

Long story as short as I can make it: the eager, wide-eyed mechanic who 
wanted to work on the bike because he “loves Rivendells”  did it his way, 
anyway. The fender hanger tab that bolts onto the brake hole on the fork 
was unevenly bent and rubbing against the headset as the handlebar moved 
back and forth. We took it back to have them fix it, and in full view of 
several employees, including the shop manager, the mechanic tried to bend 
the tab back using the Racer as leverage for his pliers. He did this 
despite my partner telling him “shouldn’t you take it off before you do 
that?” He totally ignored her, and in a second he put a gash into the the 
brake bridge. Now we’re not precious about nicks and scratches. But this 
was a deep gash on a brand new set of rare Racers, and it was horrible. It’s 
painful even recalling it. I regret that I didn’t intervene before he 
ruined it (though again, he ignored my partner, which could be another 
story for another thread about the contempt and condescension with which 
many LBS mechanics and sales people treat women). 

I think we have mythologized local bike shops. Sure, I’ve had some great 
experiences. But the proof of the pudding is always in the tasting, and 
recent experiences left me with extreme, long lasting  bitterness. Local 
shops have forgotten to reattach brake cables after a service, left the 
quick release skewers very loose, stripped threads, made adjustments worse, 
I could go on and on — basic stuff that should not happen and that have 
safety implications. It’s to the point that the only “local” shop I trust 
anymore is about 50 miles away, even though I have at least 5 shops within 
walking distance, a few blocks from where I live. I don’t want shops to use 
my bikes for training mechanics. It’s too unreliable. On top of that, the 
local shops’ labor rates are not less than Rivendell’s rates, and in my 
area, they are often *more*, adding insult to injury. For me it’s a 
no-brainer to pay Rivendell to do the work, pay extra for repacking, and so 
on. I don’t mean to rag on LBSs, though. I’m just sharing my actual 
experiences and thoughts. 

I suppose one good outcome of these crappy experiences is that it’s 
compelled me to invest in tools and put in time to learn skills. This forum 
has been a great educator, too. So thanks, forum!! I’m sorry this veered a 
lot from the original post topic. 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 11:27:04 AM UTC-4 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I don't even know where my LBS is, I work on my own bikes. I assume Riv is 
> still prepping their frames for an extra fee, I would pay it. 
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:22:57 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 8:15 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>>> To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not 
>>> sad about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped 
>>> frames on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be 
>>> prepped. It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new 
>>> Roadini frame out there people can buy. 
>>>
>>> I'm surprised at the number of people here who can't trust their LBS to 
>> prep a frame. Is it because the modern CF/AL frames don't need prepping? I 
>> certainly don't have a frame alignment table or a derailleur hanger 
>> straightener, much less the tool required to prep a headtube prior to 
>> installing headset and fork. It's been years since I carried a headset 
>> wrench while touring as well. But I recently had trouble with one of my 
>> kids' bikes not indexing correctly no matter what I did. Took it to the LBS 
>> and they diagnosed it as a bent hanger. They fixed it and then decided not 
>> to charge me since their credit card machine was broken. 
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Joe Bernard]

I don't even know where my LBS is, I work on my own bikes. I assume Riv is 
still prepping their frames for an extra fee, I would pay it. 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:22:57 AM UTC-7 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 8:15 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
>> To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not 
>> sad about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped 
>> frames on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be 
>> prepped. It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new 
>> Roadini frame out there people can buy. 
>>
>> I'm surprised at the number of people here who can't trust their LBS to 
> prep a frame. Is it because the modern CF/AL frames don't need prepping? I 
> certainly don't have a frame alignment table or a derailleur hanger 
> straightener, much less the tool required to prep a headtube prior to 
> installing headset and fork. It's been years since I carried a headset 
> wrench while touring as well. But I recently had trouble with one of my 
> kids' bikes not indexing correctly no matter what I did. Took it to the LBS 
> and they diagnosed it as a bent hanger. They fixed it and then decided not 
> to charge me since their credit card machine was broken. 
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[藍俊彪]

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 8:15 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not sad
> about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped frames
> on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be prepped.
> It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new Roadini
> frame out there people can buy.
>
> I'm surprised at the number of people here who can't trust their LBS to
prep a frame. Is it because the modern CF/AL frames don't need prepping? I
certainly don't have a frame alignment table or a derailleur hanger
straightener, much less the tool required to prep a headtube prior to
installing headset and fork. It's been years since I carried a headset
wrench while touring as well. But I recently had trouble with one of my
kids' bikes not indexing correctly no matter what I did. Took it to the LBS
and they diagnosed it as a bent hanger. They fixed it and then decided not
to charge me since their credit card machine was broken.

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Joe Bernard]

To be clear cuz I'm the OP and this is going to reflect on me, I'm not sad 
about anything. My concern is we're going to end up with unprepped frames 
on the used market that unsuspecting buyers won't know need to be prepped. 
It wasn't the main point of my post, which is that there's a new Roadini 
frame out there people can buy. 

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 7:34:16 AM UTC-7 bmfo...@gmail.com 
wrote:

> I disagree with those that think its sad Riv is no longer doing this prep. 
> Is it slightly less convenient if you are buying frame only? Sure. By 
> previously providing this service I really think Riv was going above and 
> beyond. Unpacking a frame, completing these items, and re-packing for 
> shipping is time consuming. Straightening the hanger and possibly cleaning 
> up some paint in some threads are items that will need to be completed on 
> any painted steel frame with an integral hanger. Most competent bike shops 
> will be able to complete these tasks for a reasonable fee, regardless of 
> whether or not they swoon over your new frame the same way you do. Rivs and 
> Riv style bike stuff is a niche market in the grand scheme of things. 
>
> Brian F
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:21:58 AM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> James,
>> No change of heart here just checking to see if recent buyers of the 
>> Rosco have had a change of heart. I did not jump on the sale immediately 
>> and poof they were gone.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:33:21 AM UTC-4 James wrote:
>>
>>> What led to the change of heart Doug?  I have been considering a Rosco 
>>> Platty for a while (would ride a 60cm tho)
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:02:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>>>
 There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset 
 but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
 lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
 Doug

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
> having to rebox it.
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
>> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. 
>> Might be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for 
>> the LBS that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually 
>> have 
>> the skill to do anything on a steel frame. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would 
>>> have no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me 
>>> second 
>>> guess whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of 
>>> pleading 
>>> will get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying 
>>> another 
>>> new Riv. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>


 *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs 
 threads chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda 
 wish 
 Riv wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
 process of getting frames sold and shipped. 



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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Brian Forsee]

I disagree with those that think its sad Riv is no longer doing this prep. 
Is it slightly less convenient if you are buying frame only? Sure. By 
previously providing this service I really think Riv was going above and 
beyond. Unpacking a frame, completing these items, and re-packing for 
shipping is time consuming. Straightening the hanger and possibly cleaning 
up some paint in some threads are items that will need to be completed on 
any painted steel frame with an integral hanger. Most competent bike shops 
will be able to complete these tasks for a reasonable fee, regardless of 
whether or not they swoon over your new frame the same way you do. Rivs and 
Riv style bike stuff is a niche market in the grand scheme of things. 

Brian F

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 9:21:58 AM UTC-5 Doug H. wrote:

> James,
> No change of heart here just checking to see if recent buyers of the Rosco 
> have had a change of heart. I did not jump on the sale immediately and poof 
> they were gone.
> Doug
>
> On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:33:21 AM UTC-4 James wrote:
>
>> What led to the change of heart Doug?  I have been considering a Rosco 
>> Platty for a while (would ride a 60cm tho)
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:02:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>>
>>> There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset 
>>> but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
>>> lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
>>> Doug
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
 bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
 having to rebox it.

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
 wrote:

> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might 
> be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the 
> LBS 
> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the 
> skill 
> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>
>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would 
>> have no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second 
>> guess whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of 
>> pleading 
>> will get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying 
>> another 
>> new Riv. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
>>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
>>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
>>> process 
>>> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Doug H.]

James,
No change of heart here just checking to see if recent buyers of the Rosco 
have had a change of heart. I did not jump on the sale immediately and poof 
they were gone.
Doug

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 8:33:21 AM UTC-4 James wrote:

> What led to the change of heart Doug?  I have been considering a Rosco 
> Platty for a while (would ride a 60cm tho)
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:02:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset 
>> but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
>> lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
>>> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
>>> having to rebox it.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might 
 be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
 that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the 
 skill 
 to do anything on a steel frame. 

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have 
> no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another 
> new 
> Riv. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
>> process 
>> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[James]

What led to the change of heart Doug?  I have been considering a Rosco 
Platty for a while (would ride a 60cm tho)

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 9:02:05 PM UTC-4 Doug H. wrote:

> There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset 
> but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
> lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
>> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
>> having to rebox it.
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might 
>>> be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
>>> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
>>> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>>
 I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have 
 no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
 whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
 get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
 Riv. 

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

>
>
> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
> process 
> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Doug H.]

Joe,
I will keep watching the garage sale section of the website!
Doug

On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 1:18 AM Joe Bernard  wrote:

> Doug,
>
> Keep an eye out for the Mermaid 55cm Proto Rosco Platy at Riv, it's going
> to go up on the block one of these days. There was a time when I may have
> grabbed it myself but I'm good with my custom now..YOU buy it!
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:02:05 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:
>
>> There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset
>> but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the
>> lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
>> Doug
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder
>>> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them
>>> having to rebox it.
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might
 be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS
 that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill
 to do anything on a steel frame.

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have
> no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess
> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will
> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new
> Riv.
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads
>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv
>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
>> process
>> of getting frames sold and shipped.
>>
>> --
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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Matt Beecher]

My problem is that the town was engulfed relatively recently by the Chicago 
suburbs.  It probably would not have supported a LBS in the past, so this 
one opened maybe 20 years ago(guessing).  They don't seem to appreciate 
well made steel bikes, catering to a lot of CF and aluminum.  I would not 
expect that they would have the taps needed.  

I suspect they also think I am weird, referring once to me as a 
"tinkerer".  I assume it is because of some of the relative oddities I come 
in with, from 1940's/1950's bikes, to Rivs with dynamo lighting.  They had 
never seen dynamo wiring before and were confused about them.  .

Matt

On Wednesday, September 14, 2022 at 7:06:01 AM UTC-5 lconley wrote:

> I bought the hanger alignment tool several years back - a great 
> investment. Bikes get knocked around over the years. A lot of my bikes 
> needed alignment. Especially important on bikes with indexed shifting.
> The derailleur tap also helped with new frames - the hanger is always full 
> of paint.
> I used to feel bad about not using the LBS, but not any more. These guys 
> (why no women?), some of whom are half the age of of my older bikes, are 
> always trying to sell me on something that I don't want or need, like 
> tubeless. If you have 25+ bikes, no way I want to add higher maintenance 
> items to my bikes to solve a problem that I don't have - I have no idea 
> what a pinch flat is. They don't carry even the simplest of items, I went 
> to 4 shops and none of them had a seatpost binder bolt - evidently all new 
> bike use clamps.
>
> Laing
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:23:50 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might be 
>> worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
>> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
>> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have 
>>> no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
>>> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
>>> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
>>> Riv. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>


 *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
 chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
 wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
 of getting frames sold and shipped. 



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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[lconley]

I bought the hanger alignment tool several years back - a great investment. 
Bikes get knocked around over the years. A lot of my bikes needed 
alignment. Especially important on bikes with indexed shifting.
The derailleur tap also helped with new frames - the hanger is always full 
of paint.
I used to feel bad about not using the LBS, but not any more. These guys 
(why no women?), some of whom are half the age of of my older bikes, are 
always trying to sell me on something that I don't want or need, like 
tubeless. If you have 25+ bikes, no way I want to add higher maintenance 
items to my bikes to solve a problem that I don't have - I have no idea 
what a pinch flat is. They don't carry even the simplest of items, I went 
to 4 shops and none of them had a seatpost binder bolt - evidently all new 
bike use clamps.

Laing

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:23:50 PM UTC-4 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might be 
> worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>
>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have no 
>> confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
>> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
>> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
>> Riv. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
>>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
>>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
>>> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Joe Bernard]

Doug, 

Keep an eye out for the Mermaid 55cm Proto Rosco Platy at Riv, it's going 
to go up on the block one of these days. There was a time when I may have 
grabbed it myself but I'm good with my custom now..YOU buy it! 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 6:02:05 PM UTC-7 Doug H. wrote:

> There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset 
> but I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
> lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
> Doug
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
>> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
>> having to rebox it.
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might 
>>> be worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
>>> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
>>> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>>
 I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have 
 no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
 whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
 get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
 Riv. 

 On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

>
>
> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the 
> process 
> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Doug H.]

There are lots of folks on this list who I'm sure could prep a frameset but 
I wouldn't buy one unprepped. Speaking of changes of heart, I'm on the 
lookout for a 55 Rosco Platy owner with buyer's regret. It happens.
Doug

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 8:15:31 PM UTC-4 pi...@gmail.com wrote:

> When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder 
> bolt and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them 
> having to rebox it.
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might be 
>> worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
>> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
>> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>>
>>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have 
>>> no confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
>>> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
>>> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
>>> Riv. 
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>


 *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
 chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
 wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
 of getting frames sold and shipped. 



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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Piaw Na]

When I picked up my Roadini they'd already installed a seatpost binder bolt 
and aligned the frame. But I picked it up in person to avoid them having to 
rebox it.

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 3:23:50 PM UTC-7 fra...@gmail.com wrote:

> Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might be 
> worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
> that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
> to do anything on a steel frame. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:
>
>> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have no 
>> confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
>> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
>> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
>> Riv. 
>>
>> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
>>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
>>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
>>> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Ryan Frahm]

Extremely sad if you can’t trust your LBS with such an easy job. Might be 
worth just getting the tools and doing it yourself. Or look for the LBS 
that looks so rundown nobody would think to go, they usually have the skill 
to do anything on a steel frame. 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 2:24:33 PM UTC-7 Matt Beecher wrote:

> I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have no 
> confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
> whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
> get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
> Riv. 
>
> On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
>> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
>> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
>> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini 61 on Craigslist (not mine)

[Matt Beecher]

I also think it is sad that they are not doing this prep. I would have no 
confidence in my LBS doing that well, which would make me second guess 
whether to get another Riv.  I'm hoping that some amount of pleading will 
get them to reconsider this, if I am ever interested in buying another new 
Riv. 

On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 1:59:39 PM UTC-5 Joe Bernard wrote:

>
>
> *The missing binder bolt signals to me that this frame needs threads 
> chased and the derailleur hanger checked/straightened, I kinda wish Riv 
> wasn't selling them to folks this way but I guess it speeds up the process 
> of getting frames sold and shipped. 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini heavy?

[CapNMike]

Hi Ezra, 
I have a 61 cm Roadini and I would say that this bike feels more stiff and 
responsive to steering than my AHH. I have 33 mm tires on the Roadini and 
38 mm on the AHH so that probably contributes. I ride the Roadini on 
pavement, gravel and trails without hesitation. I live in Michigan so if 
you are near Lansing and the roads clear you are welcome to take it for a 
spin.
Mike
Also in Michigan

On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 2:44:32 PM UTC-5 Ezra wrote:

> Greetings RBW Owners. My first post to the forum. 
>
> Have you been a Roadini owner? Did the bike please you? I've heard tell 
> that Roadini's feel sluggish and heavy for road bikes. I've never owned a 
> Riv but I'm interested in trying them out. I'd be setting up the bike with 
> Waive bars. 
>
> I'd also be interested to know what size you are. I've also heard that 
> Rivs tend to feel better on the larger side. No idea if it's true. 
>
> Thanks for indulging my questions. I always find buying bikes sight unseen 
> difficult. 
>
> Ezra
> Michigan 
>

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[RBW] Re: Roadini heavy?

[Jonathan D.]

I agree with Bill's take but I often do.  I have the Roadini, Rambouillet 
and Roadeo.  All ride great.  The Roadeo is setup as a light road bike and 
built up differently so hard to compare.  The Roadini definitely reminds me 
of the Romulus in feel, but also built in a similar way.  On my Ram I can 
run 35 mm tires with fenders but haven't tried not he Roadini.  I would 
probably choose my Ram over the Roadini but love the classic lugs and 
orange.  I tried selling the Roadini but didn't put much effort into it, 
but only because all three is excessive. 

I also love my BMC Monstercross and run got the disc with 42 mm tires in 
pink. I wouldn't compare the bikes and I use them for different purposes 
but can't go wrong with any BMC or Rivendell.  The Model 0 BMC looks 
awesome.

On Friday, January 28, 2022 at 10:03:17 AM UTC-8 Bill Lindsay wrote:

> Ezra asked:
>
> Have you been a Roadini owner? 
>
> *Yes, I have*
>
> Did the bike please you? 
>
> *Yes, it did.  I did my fastest ever 200k brevet on my Roadini.  *
>
> I've heard tell that Roadini's feel sluggish and heavy for road bikes. 
>
> *I've heard the same, but have not experienced that feeling myself, and 
> have not heard any individual articulate any objective physical 
> characteristic that says anything about the bike.  They can only describe 
> what they feel when they ride a particular build.  Are my builds better 
> than everybody else's builds?  Maybe, I don't know.  Am I more easy to 
> please, when cycling?  Probably.  I LOVE cycling.  The most 'boring' day on 
> the bike is better than most days off the bike.  Do I spend more time 
> searching for things to like, while others spend more time searching for 
> things not to like?  Maybe.  Do I spend more time "riding" and less time 
> "zipping about", "throwing the bike around", and such?  Perhaps.  I'm 
> certain some riders want their road bike to feel like a crit bike (or a 
> track bike) and that's very very cool.  Rivendells are objectively not like 
> crit bikes or track bikes.  *
>
> I've never owned a Riv but I'm interested in trying them out. I'd be 
> setting up the bike with Waive bars. 
>
> *Interesting.  I ran my Roadini with drops and then with Albastache bars.  
> I bet it would be fun with Wavie bars.  *
>
> *I have a huge stable of bikes, and I tend to appreciate each build for 
> exactly what it is, rather than handwring over the things it is not.  
> That's how I'm wired.  Other folks are wired differently.  Bike reviews all 
> read to me like personality tests.  People who diss a particular bike and 
> laud some other bike are telling me more about themselves than the 
> bicycles.  Since that's all you really have to go on, I think the best 
> thing is to figure out which "reviewer" has tastes and temperaments most 
> like you, and then bet on the likelihood that you'll like what they like.  
> Purely subjective reviews from strangers are not nothing, but they are also 
> not everything.  In my humble opinion.   *
>
> *Bill Lindsay*
> *El Cerrito, CA*
> On Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 11:44:32 AM UTC-8 Ezra wrote:
>
>> Greetings RBW Owners. My first post to the forum. 
>>
>> Have you been a Roadini owner? Did the bike please you? I've heard tell 
>> that Roadini's feel sluggish and heavy for road bikes. I've never owned a 
>> Riv but I'm interested in trying them out. I'd be setting up the bike with 
>> Waive bars. 
>>
>> I'd also be interested to know what size you are. I've also heard that 
>> Rivs tend to feel better on the larger side. No idea if it's true. 
>>
>> Thanks for indulging my questions. I always find buying bikes sight 
>> unseen difficult. 
>>
>> Ezra
>> Michigan 
>>
>

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