[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Lungimsam]

Matt,
BQ studies tire construction to determine which designs give the rider the 
fastest and most comfortable ride quality.
It is alleged that the speed percentages measured in the BQ studies (like the 
slowest tire tested was ~20% slower than the fastest tire tested., iirc) adds 
up over long distances. So a 10 hour ride with the slowest tires, in theory, 
would take only 8 hours on the fastest tires.

I have not noticed significant speed increases with GB or Compass tires over 
others I have ridden. But they are very comfortable, seem to keep their 
momentum up very well when starting up a hill, and their cornering is 
fantastic. I didn't get the last two benefits from my Schwalbe Marathons, 
though they were also excellent tires.

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Daniel D.]

I think they're using the power meters and controlled conditions to ensure 
measurements are as objective and repeatable as possible.  Not that the 
differences are undetectable without such equipment.  

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 9:20:16 PM UTC-7, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> Seems to me that if differences can only be detected under carefully 
> controlled conditions using power meters none of these tires are worth all 
> the fuss and expense.  I'll stick with my $20 Vittoria Randonneur's.
>
> Matt
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 12:22:40 PM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>>
>>
>> We'll consider the Furious Fred and Thunder Burts when we next test tires 
>> on the track with a power meter under carefully controlled conditions. 
>> Thank you for the suggestion.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>>
>>>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Matthew J]

When I put on my Compass tires for the first time I sure as heck noticed 
the difference.  Vittorias always seemed harsh and uninvolved. Compass 
smooth engaging.  Not sure how those impressions could be measured under 
controlled conditions with power impressions.

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 11:20:16 PM UTC-5, hangtownmatt wrote:
>
> Seems to me that if differences can only be detected under carefully 
> controlled conditions using power meters none of these tires are worth all 
> the fuss and expense.  I'll stick with my $20 Vittoria Randonneur's.
>
> Matt
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 12:22:40 PM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>>
>>
>> We'll consider the Furious Fred and Thunder Burts when we next test tires 
>> on the track with a power meter under carefully controlled conditions. 
>> Thank you for the suggestion.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Editor
>> Bicycle Quarterly
>> www.bikequarterly.com
>>
>> On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 1:31:05 PM UTC+2, Takashi wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank you Jan.
>>> I have enjoyed reading your articles in blog and BQ, and they inspired 
>>> me to do the test.
>>> As an amateur cyclist, my time to ride bike is limited, so I cannot say 
>>> for sure how many times I will ride the same route.
>>> I like to visit places I have never seen, rather than riding same route 
>>> over and over.
>>> (I'm pretty sure that most people in this group understand this 
>>> inclination)
>>> Still, I am interested in performances of tires myself, so when I do 
>>> further test, I will post about it.
>>>
>>> I have read in your blog (comment section maybe) that you consider 
>>> Furious Fred and Thunder Burt as too much off-road-oriented, but I think 
>>> they were very smooth and efficient on pavement.
>>> So I am expecting to read reviews of those tires in future issues of BQ.
>>>
>>> Takashi
>>>
>>>
>>> 2015年9月5日土曜日 15時15分36秒 UTC+9 Jan Heine:

 Takahashi,

 That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our 
 Barlow Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this 
 could be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
 mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
 erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
 course where so many variables can change.

 It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. 
 For example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there 
 is no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at 
 trees and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
 measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've 
 established 
 by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least 
 three 
 repeats with each setup.

 On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. 
 The way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations 
 average 
 out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
 that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
 analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
 than just "noise" in the data.)

 So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the 
 tires, and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we 
 can help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
 statistics.)

 In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful 
 to report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel 
 different 
 on each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the 
 end, 
 that is what counts for most of us when we ride.

 Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
 until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
 these tires perform.

 Jan Heine
 Compass Bicycles
 www.compasscycle.com

>>>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

['hangtownmatt' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Seems to me that if differences can only be detected under carefully 
controlled conditions using power meters none of these tires are worth all 
the fuss and expense.  I'll stick with my $20 Vittoria Randonneur's.

Matt

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 12:22:40 PM UTC-7, Jan Heine wrote:
>
>
> We'll consider the Furious Fred and Thunder Burts when we next test tires 
> on the track with a power meter under carefully controlled conditions. 
> Thank you for the suggestion.
>
> Best,
>
> Jan Heine
> Editor
> Bicycle Quarterly
> www.bikequarterly.com
>
> On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 1:31:05 PM UTC+2, Takashi wrote:
>>
>> Thank you Jan.
>> I have enjoyed reading your articles in blog and BQ, and they inspired me 
>> to do the test.
>> As an amateur cyclist, my time to ride bike is limited, so I cannot say 
>> for sure how many times I will ride the same route.
>> I like to visit places I have never seen, rather than riding same route 
>> over and over.
>> (I'm pretty sure that most people in this group understand this 
>> inclination)
>> Still, I am interested in performances of tires myself, so when I do 
>> further test, I will post about it.
>>
>> I have read in your blog (comment section maybe) that you consider 
>> Furious Fred and Thunder Burt as too much off-road-oriented, but I think 
>> they were very smooth and efficient on pavement.
>> So I am expecting to read reviews of those tires in future issues of BQ.
>>
>> Takashi
>>
>>
>> 2015年9月5日土曜日 15時15分36秒 UTC+9 Jan Heine:
>>>
>>> Takahashi,
>>>
>>> That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our 
>>> Barlow Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this 
>>> could be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
>>> mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
>>> erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
>>> course where so many variables can change.
>>>
>>> It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For 
>>> example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is 
>>> no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees 
>>> and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
>>> measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established 
>>> by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three 
>>> repeats with each setup.
>>>
>>> On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The 
>>> way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average 
>>> out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
>>> that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
>>> analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
>>> than just "noise" in the data.)
>>>
>>> So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, 
>>> and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can 
>>> help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
>>> statistics.)
>>>
>>> In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful 
>>> to report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different 
>>> on each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, 
>>> that is what counts for most of us when we ride.
>>>
>>> Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
>>> until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
>>> these tires perform.
>>>
>>> Jan Heine
>>> Compass Bicycles
>>> www.compasscycle.com
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Edwin W]

Jan,

You have discovered a way to make all tires seem supple and fast rolling: ride 
15 miles on rumble strips then go out on a "regular" ride. 
For those that don't want to spring for new tires!

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Jan Heine]

Takashi,

First of all, I apologize for butchering your name...

Please do report on further testing you do, but I totally understand that 
testing is a tedious job. I can tell you when we did the rumble strip test, 
and I had to ride 15 miles on rumble strips over the course of a morning, I 
was glad to just go for a spin the following day on comparatively smooth 
roads.

We'll consider the Furious Fred and Thunder Burts when we next test tires 
on the track with a power meter under carefully controlled conditions. 
Thank you for the suggestion.

Best,

Jan Heine
Editor
Bicycle Quarterly
www.bikequarterly.com

On Sunday, September 6, 2015 at 1:31:05 PM UTC+2, Takashi wrote:
>
> Thank you Jan.
> I have enjoyed reading your articles in blog and BQ, and they inspired me 
> to do the test.
> As an amateur cyclist, my time to ride bike is limited, so I cannot say 
> for sure how many times I will ride the same route.
> I like to visit places I have never seen, rather than riding same route 
> over and over.
> (I'm pretty sure that most people in this group understand this 
> inclination)
> Still, I am interested in performances of tires myself, so when I do 
> further test, I will post about it.
>
> I have read in your blog (comment section maybe) that you consider Furious 
> Fred and Thunder Burt as too much off-road-oriented, but I think they were 
> very smooth and efficient on pavement.
> So I am expecting to read reviews of those tires in future issues of BQ.
>
> Takashi
>
>
> 2015年9月5日土曜日 15時15分36秒 UTC+9 Jan Heine:
>>
>> Takahashi,
>>
>> That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our 
>> Barlow Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this 
>> could be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
>> mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
>> erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
>> course where so many variables can change.
>>
>> It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For 
>> example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is 
>> no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees 
>> and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
>> measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established 
>> by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three 
>> repeats with each setup.
>>
>> On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The 
>> way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average 
>> out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
>> that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
>> analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
>> than just "noise" in the data.)
>>
>> So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, 
>> and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can 
>> help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
>> statistics.)
>>
>> In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful 
>> to report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different 
>> on each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, 
>> that is what counts for most of us when we ride.
>>
>> Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
>> until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
>> these tires perform.
>>
>> Jan Heine
>> Compass Bicycles
>> www.compasscycle.com
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Takashi]

Thank you Jan.
I have enjoyed reading your articles in blog and BQ, and they inspired me 
to do the test.
As an amateur cyclist, my time to ride bike is limited, so I cannot say for 
sure how many times I will ride the same route.
I like to visit places I have never seen, rather than riding same route 
over and over.
(I'm pretty sure that most people in this group understand this inclination)
Still, I am interested in performances of tires myself, so when I do 
further test, I will post about it.

I have read in your blog (comment section maybe) that you consider Furious 
Fred and Thunder Burt as too much off-road-oriented, but I think they were 
very smooth and efficient on pavement.
So I am expecting to read reviews of those tires in future issues of BQ.

Takashi


2015年9月5日土曜日 15時15分36秒 UTC+9 Jan Heine:
>
> Takahashi,
>
> That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our 
> Barlow Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this 
> could be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
> mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
> erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
> course where so many variables can change.
>
> It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For 
> example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is 
> no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees 
> and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
> measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established 
> by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three 
> repeats with each setup.
>
> On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The 
> way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average 
> out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
> that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
> analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
> than just "noise" in the data.)
>
> So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, 
> and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can 
> help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
> statistics.)
>
> In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful to 
> report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different on 
> each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, 
> that is what counts for most of us when we ride.
>
> Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
> until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
> these tires perform.
>
> Jan Heine
> Compass Bicycles
> www.compasscycle.com
>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Jan Heine]

Takahashi,

That is an interesting comparison. Like you, I am surprised that our Barlow 
Pass tires weren't super-fast. At first, I thought about why this could 
be... until I realized that you did only one run with each tire. You 
mention that yours isn't a detailed study, and you are right. It would be 
erroneous to draw conclusions based on a single run, especially on a road 
course where so many variables can change.

It's very important to control all the variables when testing tires. For 
example, at Bicycle Quarterly, we test on a track, and only when there is 
no wind (measured with a windspeed meter, < 0.5 m/s; but looking at trees 
and checking that the leaves don't move is equally precise). We also 
measure temperature and correct for that based on a curve we've established 
by measuring the same tires at different temperatures. We do at least three 
repeats with each setup.

On an open-road course, you'll have many more variables that change. The 
way to deal with this is to do repeat runs until the variations average 
out. A statistical analysis helps you figure out whether you've reached 
that point. (Bicycle Quarterly's tests always include a statistical 
analysis to make sure we report actual differences between tires, rather 
than just "noise" in the data.)

So I encourage you to do more test runs with at least some of the tires, 
and then do a statistical analysis. If you need help with that, we can 
help. (BQ contributor Mark Vande Kamp has a Ph.D. with a minor in 
statistics.)

In the mean time, rather than looking at numbers, it may be more useful to 
report your impressions of riding each tire. How did they feel different on 
each section of your course? Which one was more fun to ride? In the end, 
that is what counts for most of us when we ride.

Again, thank you for doing the testing. Please continue the experiment 
until you get meaningful numbers. It's of great interest to all of us how 
these tires perform.

Jan Heine
Compass Bicycles
www.compasscycle.com

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[dougP]

Thanks for taking the trouble to test, record & post your findings.  The 
impressions are especially helpful. Oftentimes I find the subjective feel 
of how a tire rides & handles to be an important factor in my perception of 
the performance of the tire.  Good stuff.

dougP

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:35:46 AM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than 
> Marathons, but slower actually.
> Extralight ones might be faster, but I guess that they are as fragile as 
> Furious Freds.
>
>
> Takashi
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Surlyprof]

Nice experiment.  I'm surprised that the Mondial and Barlow Pass numbers 
were so close.  Like you, I always thought of my Mondials as a pretty slow, 
heavy tire.  The Barlow Pass Extralights felt light as the air inside them 
in comparison.  I would recommend the extralights.  I've ridden them for 
all my road riding this summer flat-free.  Unfortunately, my comparison is 
not nearly as accurate as yours as I use the Mondials on my heavier 
wheelset (32h Synergy with XT hub vs. 36h A719 with Phil Wood).  Now, if 
they would just make a Thunder Burt that fits a Hillborne, I could ditch 
the Mondials AND Smart Sams and ride one tire year 'round.  If anyone has a 
comparable tire in mind, I'm all ears.

Thanks for the write up.
John

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 12:35:46 AM UTC-7, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than 
> Marathons, but slower actually.
> Extr

Re: [RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Patrick Moore]

FWIW, I've got about 1500 miles on my Furious Freds and the rear knoblets
are about halfway worn down; the fronts are almost as new. Probably 50%
pavement, 50% sandy dirt.

On Fri, Sep 4, 2015 at 2:47 AM, Takashi  wrote:

> There are 3 types of Thunder Burts (LiteSkin, SnakeSkin, RaceGuard),
> whereas there is only one type of Furious Fred.
> http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html
> http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/furious-fred.html
>
> Just below photos there is a chart showing grip, durability, etc.
> According to the website, TBs are a bit more durable than FFs.
> I bought RaceGuard, expecting they are less fragile.
>
> Takashi
>
>
> 2015年9月4日金曜日 13時16分50秒 UTC+9 dstein:
>
>> Awesome right up and thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like
>> the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?
>>
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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Takashi]

There are 3 types of Thunder Burts (LiteSkin, SnakeSkin, RaceGuard), 
whereas there is only one type of Furious Fred.
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/thunder-burt.html
http://www.schwalbe.com/en/offroad-reader/furious-fred.html

Just below photos there is a chart showing grip, durability, etc.
According to the website, TBs are a bit more durable than FFs.
I bought RaceGuard, expecting they are less fragile.

Takashi


2015年9月4日金曜日 13時16分50秒 UTC+9 dstein:
>
> Awesome right up and thanks for sharing. 
>
> Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like 
> the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?
>

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[dstein]

Awesome right up and thanks for sharing. 

Aren't the Thunder Burts also racing tires meant for short term use like 
the furious freds? Are are those in fact more duarable?

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[John Hawrylak]

All I can say is Wow and Thank You.  An excellent job and excellent report.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

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[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Deacon Patrick]

Amazing, Takashi!

As most here know, my go to tires are: Thunder Burt for my Hunqapillar; 
Barlow Pass for my Quickbeam. I think you are on to something when you 
mention that heat could have been a factor with your Barlow Pass ride. I 
don't track speed, time, distance, etc., but hot rides are sure a LOT 
longer feeling than the same ride on a cool day. Throw in subtle 
differences in wind and/or precipitation, and even how you are feeling that 
ride -- It would take a lot of riders and/or very controled testing in real 
world circumstances to attempt to quiet down the "noise" in the data. To 
me, your ride impression notes are the most meaningful data you collected. 
Of the tires I've ridden, I concur with your assessment. Thank you for 
sharing this fantastic pile of personal experience with the tires!

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 1:35:46 AM UTC-6, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2

[RBW] Re: Tested 6 pairs of 700c (29in) tires - results and impressions

[Shoji Takahashi]

Thanks, Takashi! I'll add Thunder Burts to my list for the Hunqapillar. 



On Thursday, September 3, 2015 at 3:35:46 AM UTC-4, Takashi wrote:
>
>
> 
> I tested various 700c (29-inch) tires on a same route to see how they 
> perform, and I thought I'd share the results here.
>
> Please note that this is not a detailed study, as I rode only once with 
> each pair.
> Climate conditions as well as my body condition differed from one day to 
> another, so that might have affected results.
>
>
> *THE TIRES:*
> The tires I tested are following 6 pairs:
>
> Maxxis CrossMark 29x2.1 (52/52-622) 60TPI, single compound
> Schwalbe Thunder Burt 29x2.10 (54-622) RaceGuard
> Schwalbe Furious Fred 29x2.00 (50-622)
> Bruce Gordon Rock-n-Road 700x43 (43-622)
> Schwalbe Marathon Mondial 700x40 (42-622) Performance Line, wired
> Compass Barlow Pass 700x38 (38-622) standard casing
>
>
> *THE ROUTE:*
> The route is 20.4 kilometers (12.7 miles) long, which consists of 4 
> portions:
> Portion 1: paved; 7.6km (4.7mi); 271m (889ft) ascent; 91m (298ft) descent
> Portion 2: dirt/gravel; 2.6km (1.6mi); 210m (689ft) ascent; no descent
> Portion 3: dirt/gravel; 5.4km (3.4mi); no ascent; 406m (1332ft) descent
> Portion 4: paved; 4.8km (3.0mi); 74m (243ft) ascent; 79m (259ft) descent
>
>
> *RESULTS:*
> Please see the attached chart for the results.
>
>
> *IMPRESSIONS:*
>
> *Cross Mark (15psi front, 25psi rear)*
> It felt a bit sluggish when climbing.
> Rear wheel sometimes slipped in portion 2.
> Difficulty when descending in portion 3 as rear wheel sometimes skidded, 
> but looking at GPS data, these were fastest, so maybe it wasn't bad.
>
> *Thunder Burt (20psi front, 30psi rear)*
> I recall that someone wrote about these tires as "smooth as butter," and I 
> absolutely agree. Very smooth both on pavement and on gravel. Also they 
> felt less sluggish than Cross Marks, thus easier to climb.
> It was easier to handle on gravel than Cross Marks, though rear wheel 
> slipped a bit in portion 2.
> Also I felt them easier to handle in portion 3.
> By the way, I always took brief rests (a few minutes) between portions. 
> Looking at GPS data, I noticed that my rest was shorter when testing 
> Thunder Burts and Furious Freds. I guess their smoothness or 
> non-sluggishness made me less tired, thus requiring shorter break.
> (It's possible that it was due to climate conditions, not tires.)
> I put TBs on my Hunq when I went touring this August, and they served very 
> well.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/77318553@N08/albums/72157655035690913
>
> Furious Fred (22psi front, 30psi rear)
> Least sluggish among tires I tested, and indeed very fast when climbing.
> As I wrote above, I needed shorter break between portions.
> I did not notice slipping in portion 2, easy to handle in portion 3.
> So I liked them very much, but on another day when I rode unpaved road 
> with these tires, I found a few cuts on the tread (not sidewall). Schwalbe 
> website suggests that they are fragile, and indeed they are.
> I am reluctant to use them for long-distance ride when the route includes 
> unpaved roads.
>
> Rock n Road (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> They feel relatively smooth both on pavement and dirt, but extremely 
> sluggish when climbing.
> I had to resort to lower gears with these tires than with other tires.
> Handling was fine in portions 2 and 3, but harder to handle than fatter 
> tires.
>
> Marathon Mondial (30psi front, 38psi rear)
> Felt less sluggish than RnR.
> Among tires I tested, these felt hardest to handle on gravel road.
> So I was surprised when I checked GPS data to find that these performed 
> pretty well in portions 2 and 3.
> I have always thought that these are "slow" tires, so I have not used them 
> often, but I will have to change my mind and use them more often to see how 
> they perform.
>
> Barlow Pass (38psi front, 42psi rear)
> Before the test, I expected these to be fastest, especially when climbing 
> paved road, but I was wrong.
> Compared to Furious Freds, Barlow Pass felt slow, and I felt more tired.
> (Maybe because it was a hot day when I tested these.)
> In portions 2 and 3, I felt them difficult to handle. Felt easier than 
> Marathons, but slower actually.
> Extralight ones might be faster, but I guess that they are as fragile as 
> Furious Freds.
>
>
> Takashi
>
>

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