[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-18 Thread Andrew Stevens
Salsa ran out of their 2020 allotment in mid April, purportedly. We ordered 
Surlys in August, and werent given the option of sizes/models, just paid 
for a certain number of bikes, with a delivery timeframe is 
"October-February." All Surly completes have been pre-allotted to bike 
shops through next summer, and aren't being added to distributors websites 
for B2B (business to business) purchases. We were unable to source 26x2" 
tubes for 6 weeks, because production was so backed up in China/Taiwan

I imagine Rivs long distance planning and good relationship with their 
manufacturers keeps their production times more consistent, but everyone is 
feeling the production times slow down. 

Here is a New York Times article about 
it: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/05/18/nyregion/bike-shortage-coronavirus.html

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 7:26:54 PM UTC-6 Jim M. wrote:

> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-15 Thread Mark Roland
The company I work for uses kanban to determine what parts to fabricate. 
These are then used to build a number of different final products. This is 
a bit more complicated, since Rivendell doesn't actually make anything 
(except maybe saddle goop).  They also can't really practice Just in Time 
ordering, since there is such a lead time involved with bicycles. And now 
with the pandemic, even more shaky, because the lead times are longer and 
less certain. (Aside: This has exposed the fragility of the global economy 
and supply chain.) So it's more like a feast, then a bit of famine, repeat, 
with a yearly sales goal reached via spikes on the graph rather than a 
steady state line. Any way you slice it, being a Rivendell-sized company 
with Rivendell-type business tenets is a tough row to hoe.

Then there is the consumption part, which Jason brings up. My platonic 
ideal would be to have had a Clem L from 16 years old until I was dead. But 
since the main activity for most of us is consuming, that is hard to do. 
And if everybody did it, the economy would be in the tank even sooner. Due 
to a few odd circumstances, I find myself with an embarrassment of 
riches--three Rivendells (All Hillibikes--El Clem, Susie, Hubbuh). I have 
some angst knowing I will not possibly be around long enough to imbue all 
three of them with the patina and beausage they deserve. Nobody said life 
was going to be fair.

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 9:00:46 PM UTC-5 dougP wrote:

> Last century, the Japanese figured out "just in time" inventory.  The 
> mantra was "inventory is evil", meaning better to have the money in the 
> bank than tied up in parts.  The model of announcement then pre-sale then 
> delivery takes that to the next step.  Increases cash flow & reduces 
> storage requirements.  BTW, been in a couple of local shops recently & both 
> had boxed bikes stacked up the aisles.  When I asked, they said they were 
> rolling them out the door as fast as they could build them & having them in 
> house gave them faster turnaround.  
>
> dougP
>
>
> On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 4:56:08 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> I know that this group of folks see Rivendells as immensely practical 
>> bikes, which they are, but they're also boutique, premium bikes. With this 
>> in mind I think it's pretty reasonable that one would pick out the frameset 
>> they want, save up the money, and wait for availability and be ready to go 
>> as soon as they are. The decision to buy one ought to be before they're 
>> available. That said, I do hope they are able to stock more again soon: 
>> ideally there'd be two or three models available in most sizes at any given 
>> time and they'd rotate through the catalog every couple years this way.  
>>
>> I know I am personally terrible for hanging onto one bike for a long 
>> time, but that's what people should be doing with a Rivendell, so these 
>> waits of a few months to maybe a year or two would only happen a couple 
>> times in a rider's lifetime, or even only once.  I hope to put 50,000 km on 
>> my Sam Hillborne.. that's my goal! 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread dougP
Last century, the Japanese figured out "just in time" inventory.  The 
mantra was "inventory is evil", meaning better to have the money in the 
bank than tied up in parts.  The model of announcement then pre-sale then 
delivery takes that to the next step.  Increases cash flow & reduces 
storage requirements.  BTW, been in a couple of local shops recently & both 
had boxed bikes stacked up the aisles.  When I asked, they said they were 
rolling them out the door as fast as they could build them & having them in 
house gave them faster turnaround.  

dougP


On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 4:56:08 PM UTC-8 Jason Fuller wrote:

> I know that this group of folks see Rivendells as immensely practical 
> bikes, which they are, but they're also boutique, premium bikes. With this 
> in mind I think it's pretty reasonable that one would pick out the frameset 
> they want, save up the money, and wait for availability and be ready to go 
> as soon as they are. The decision to buy one ought to be before they're 
> available. That said, I do hope they are able to stock more again soon: 
> ideally there'd be two or three models available in most sizes at any given 
> time and they'd rotate through the catalog every couple years this way.  
>
> I know I am personally terrible for hanging onto one bike for a long time, 
> but that's what people should be doing with a Rivendell, so these waits of 
> a few months to maybe a year or two would only happen a couple times in a 
> rider's lifetime, or even only once.  I hope to put 50,000 km on my Sam 
> Hillborne.. that's my goal! 

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Jason Fuller
I know that this group of folks see Rivendells as immensely practical 
bikes, which they are, but they're also boutique, premium bikes. With this 
in mind I think it's pretty reasonable that one would pick out the frameset 
they want, save up the money, and wait for availability and be ready to go 
as soon as they are. The decision to buy one ought to be before they're 
available. That said, I do hope they are able to stock more again soon: 
ideally there'd be two or three models available in most sizes at any given 
time and they'd rotate through the catalog every couple years this way.  

I know I am personally terrible for hanging onto one bike for a long time, 
but that's what people should be doing with a Rivendell, so these waits of 
a few months to maybe a year or two would only happen a couple times in a 
rider's lifetime, or even only once.  I hope to put 50,000 km on my Sam 
Hillborne.. that's my goal! 

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Collin A
Its a bummer that you have to know you want the bike, the correct size, and 
know when it will be released, all without doing a test ride on a $1500+ 
frame. I was lucky when I bought my first Riv that I was able to test ride 
a Hunqapillar, Clem, and Sam to figure out size and feel. Seems like those 
days are over, which sucks for the consumer, but great for Riv I guess.

Cheers,
Collin, formerly within walking distance of Riv at my first job, now in 
Sacramento

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:46:33 PM UTC-8 Joe Bernard wrote:

> Demand is nice but I'm not sure it's good that they can't keep up with it. 
> You can't sell bikes you don't have. 
>
> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-8 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not 
>> sure if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or 
>> bad thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>>
>> jim m
>> walnut creek
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Brady Smith
The Riv model is hard to explain to non bike nerds. I made a half -hearted 
effort at convincing my wife to let me replace my Jamis Aurora frame with a 
Sam when they were about to go live and she said something to the effect of 
“Why not just wait and make sure we don’t need this $1500 for something 
else?” Riv sold out while we were talking and the re-stock for Sams wont 
come for another couple years. I may not ask next time!

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 3:10:04 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> Mike: Wow, this is fascinating. I wondered what would become of the bike 
> boom after the pandemic. I world that gives more priority to bicycles is a 
> world I can look forward to! 
>
> Bikes at Rivendell... My mom’s neighbors love to bike. They biked across 
> the entire US, coast to coast so they are attracted to Riv-type bikes. When 
> they saw Mom’s Cheviot they were enamored. They asked me how to get one. 
> One does not just get a bike from Rivendell, I thought. How do you explain 
> this? Most bike stores (in years other than 2020) have inventory; you walk 
> in with cash, leave it there and walk out with a shiny new bicycle. I 
> offered the neighbor an awkward explanation, encouraged him to get in on 
> the upcoming Platypus sale. Bikes are very hard to get from Rivendell.
>
> But see, this is not new. In November 2012, I was getting a Betty Foy. 
> Keven had convinced me it was just the right bike for me, and after I was 
> committed and excited and had my credit card ready, he said, “Great. Well, 
> I’ll have to see if I can find one buried in the warehouse; otherwise 
> you’ll get one in March.” Woah. Let that sink in. I lucked out and he found 
> one, but that would have been a very disappointing and long wait.
>
> I do wish Riv had more bikes on hand. I hate that they miss out on sales 
> because they have no inventory. I’m not criticizing; I don’t know what goes 
> on there, but I’m allowed to wish they had more bikes...
> Leah
>
> On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 11:14:03 AM UTC-8 velomann wrote:
>
>> Have you been to your LBS recently? This is definitely not exclusive to 
>> Rivendell. At least here in PDX the demand continues to exceed supply, and 
>> the small repair shop I fill in for has been chronically unable to get 
>> basic parts from QBP since early summer.
>> I've sold more bikes on CL, more quickly, with less dickering in the past 
>> 4 months than I did in the previous 5 years. I'm gad Rivendell is 
>> benefiting from that pent up demand. I checked a couple days ago and the 
>> only new Sams left are Dark Gold sz 48, which means they basically sold out 
>> their 100 (+?) in less than a week, with several in smaller sizes going to 
>> Blue Lug right off the top.
>>
>> I'm currently taking a Traffic and Transportation (Zoom) class at 
>> Portland State through their School of Urban Planning. We've had guest 
>> speakers every week who are deeply embedded in transportation policy, and 
>> Covid 19 has been a real Litmus test of community resiliency and issues of 
>> transportation equity. (BLM ties in here as well as Biking While Black is a 
>> real thing). Much of our discussions are what is this all going to look 
>> like, post-pandemic. Everyone expects bikes to remain big; we're not going 
>> to return to to planning that prioritizes Single Occupancy Vehicles and 
>> petroleum.
>>
>> Mike M
>>
>> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-8 Jim M. wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not 
>>> sure if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or 
>>> bad thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>>>
>>> jim m
>>> walnut creek
>>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
Mike: Wow, this is fascinating. I wondered what would become of the bike 
boom after the pandemic. I world that gives more priority to bicycles is a 
world I can look forward to! 

Bikes at Rivendell... My mom’s neighbors love to bike. They biked across 
the entire US, coast to coast so they are attracted to Riv-type bikes. When 
they saw Mom’s Cheviot they were enamored. They asked me how to get one. 
One does not just get a bike from Rivendell, I thought. How do you explain 
this? Most bike stores (in years other than 2020) have inventory; you walk 
in with cash, leave it there and walk out with a shiny new bicycle. I 
offered the neighbor an awkward explanation, encouraged him to get in on 
the upcoming Platypus sale. Bikes are very hard to get from Rivendell.

But see, this is not new. In November 2012, I was getting a Betty Foy. 
Keven had convinced me it was just the right bike for me, and after I was 
committed and excited and had my credit card ready, he said, “Great. Well, 
I’ll have to see if I can find one buried in the warehouse; otherwise 
you’ll get one in March.” Woah. Let that sink in. I lucked out and he found 
one, but that would have been a very disappointing and long wait.

I do wish Riv had more bikes on hand. I hate that they miss out on sales 
because they have no inventory. I’m not criticizing; I don’t know what goes 
on there, but I’m allowed to wish they had more bikes...
Leah

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 11:14:03 AM UTC-8 velomann wrote:

> Have you been to your LBS recently? This is definitely not exclusive to 
> Rivendell. At least here in PDX the demand continues to exceed supply, and 
> the small repair shop I fill in for has been chronically unable to get 
> basic parts from QBP since early summer.
> I've sold more bikes on CL, more quickly, with less dickering in the past 
> 4 months than I did in the previous 5 years. I'm gad Rivendell is 
> benefiting from that pent up demand. I checked a couple days ago and the 
> only new Sams left are Dark Gold sz 48, which means they basically sold out 
> their 100 (+?) in less than a week, with several in smaller sizes going to 
> Blue Lug right off the top.
>
> I'm currently taking a Traffic and Transportation (Zoom) class at Portland 
> State through their School of Urban Planning. We've had guest speakers 
> every week who are deeply embedded in transportation policy, and Covid 19 
> has been a real Litmus test of community resiliency and issues of 
> transportation equity. (BLM ties in here as well as Biking While Black is a 
> real thing). Much of our discussions are what is this all going to look 
> like, post-pandemic. Everyone expects bikes to remain big; we're not going 
> to return to to planning that prioritizes Single Occupancy Vehicles and 
> petroleum.
>
> Mike M
>
> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-8 Jim M. wrote:
>
>> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not 
>> sure if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or 
>> bad thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>>
>> jim m
>> walnut creek
>>
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Jim M.
On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 11:14:03 AM UTC-8 velomann wrote:

> Have you been to your LBS recently? 

Yes, RBW is my LBS.

 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Joe Bernard
I understand the reasoning for Riv to be out of bikes to sell, I'm just 
biased and don't like it. I think they're the greatest bicycles in the 
world and everyine in a bike boom should be going to shops full of them 
(like Schwinn when I was a kid) and buying them! 

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 6:30:34 AM UTC-8 bjmi...@gmail.com wrote:

> Isn't trying to keep a bunch of frames/products in stock at all times part 
> of what got them into financial trouble in 2018? 
>
> Grant is pretty clear about how big he wants Rivendell to be (and how big 
> he doesn't want it to get). I don't know if this number is still the 
> target, but I've read or heard him say that about 800 bikes per year is all 
> Rivendell is looking to sell. They know what they need to sell to hit a 
> number that gets everyone a fair wage. I like that about the company...and 
> if they grew drastically and needed more than the handful of great people 
> they have to run it, it'd lose a little of its appeal to me. 
>
> On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:05:36 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:
>
>> Rivendell, Crust, and bike brands of that size all operate on a budget 
>> that doesn't allow any significant inventory - pre-sales and ensuring 
>> batches are sold swiftly is key to keeping the budget balanced 
>
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread velomann
Have you been to your LBS recently? This is definitely not exclusive to 
Rivendell. At least here in PDX the demand continues to exceed supply, and 
the small repair shop I fill in for has been chronically unable to get 
basic parts from QBP since early summer.
I've sold more bikes on CL, more quickly, with less dickering in the past 4 
months than I did in the previous 5 years. I'm gad Rivendell is benefiting 
from that pent up demand. I checked a couple days ago and the only new Sams 
left are Dark Gold sz 48, which means they basically sold out their 100 
(+?) in less than a week, with several in smaller sizes going to Blue Lug 
right off the top.

I'm currently taking a Traffic and Transportation (Zoom) class at Portland 
State through their School of Urban Planning. We've had guest speakers 
every week who are deeply embedded in transportation policy, and Covid 19 
has been a real Litmus test of community resiliency and issues of 
transportation equity. (BLM ties in here as well as Biking While Black is a 
real thing). Much of our discussions are what is this all going to look 
like, post-pandemic. Everyone expects bikes to remain big; we're not going 
to return to to planning that prioritizes Single Occupancy Vehicles and 
petroleum.

Mike M

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-8 Jim M. wrote:

> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Marc Irwin
Bikes are selling out everywhere in the world.  The local shop around the 
corner from me usually keeps about 300 in stock.  They now have about 20 
thanks to a fall shipment.  It's a generally good thing I think.



On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 8:26:54 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-14 Thread Ben Mihovk
Isn't trying to keep a bunch of frames/products in stock at all times part 
of what got them into financial trouble in 2018? 

Grant is pretty clear about how big he wants Rivendell to be (and how big 
he doesn't want it to get). I don't know if this number is still the 
target, but I've read or heard him say that about 800 bikes per year is all 
Rivendell is looking to sell. They know what they need to sell to hit a 
number that gets everyone a fair wage. I like that about the company...and 
if they grew drastically and needed more than the handful of great people 
they have to run it, it'd lose a little of its appeal to me. 

On Saturday, November 14, 2020 at 12:05:36 AM UTC-6 Jason Fuller wrote:

> Rivendell, Crust, and bike brands of that size all operate on a budget 
> that doesn't allow any significant inventory - pre-sales and ensuring 
> batches are sold swiftly is key to keeping the budget balanced 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-13 Thread Jason Fuller
Rivendell, Crust, and bike brands of that size all operate on a budget that 
doesn't allow any significant inventory - pre-sales and ensuring batches 
are sold swiftly is key to keeping the budget balanced 

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Re: [RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-13 Thread rltilley
Tumbleweed is about to get a batch of frames in and they don’t expect any more 
to come in until next summer. Sourcing is getting tougher.

Even getting parts for appliance repairs is a pain. We need to get our washer 
fixed and our repair guy says it’s crazy how hard it is to get any parts now. 

Robert “mad world” Tilley
San Diego, CA

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 13, 2020, at 8:07 PM, Mark Roland  wrote:
> 
> 
> Bikes are mostly out of stock everywhere. Riv is lucky to be getting semi 
> regular production runs shipped to them. 
> 
> Still hard to find many parts, too. 
> 
> Not sure what forum or thread, but I pointed out that Rivendell's business 
> model has been going this way--batch shipments of a single model, sell them 
> off, in comes the next batch--for a while. This is helped by the dealer 
> network, whereas a while back it was almost all web. Now I imagine Blue Lug 
> takes 25% right off the top, then the rest, then Riv. 
> 
> More and more small production run companies are doing this; a good example 
> is Acorn Bags.  They announce an upcoming release, and most everything is 
> sold through within a few hours of going live. My local brewery does the same 
> thing with their beers. You sell the stuff that doesn't cost a fortune to sit 
> on in the warehouse--parts, clothes, the odd frame here and there--while you 
> wait for the next container ship. Keeps better tabs on your capital outlays, 
> too. From outside appearances, it seems to be working okay. I hope it is.
> 
>> On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 8:26:54 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:
>> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
>> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
>> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>> 
>> jim m
>> walnut creek
> 
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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-13 Thread Mark Roland
Bikes are mostly out of stock everywhere. Riv is lucky to be getting semi 
regular production runs shipped to them. 

Still hard to find many parts, too. 

Not sure what forum or thread, but I pointed out that Rivendell's business 
model has been going this way--batch shipments of a single model, sell them 
off, in comes the next batch--for a while. This is helped by the dealer 
network, whereas a while back it was almost all web. Now I imagine Blue Lug 
takes 25% right off the top, then the rest, then Riv. 

More and more small production run companies are doing this; a good example 
is Acorn Bags.  They announce an upcoming release, and most everything is 
sold through within a few hours of going live. My local brewery does the 
same thing with their beers. You sell the stuff that doesn't cost a fortune 
to sit on in the warehouse--parts, clothes, the odd frame here and 
there--while you wait for the next container ship. Keeps better tabs on 
your capital outlays, too. From outside appearances, it seems to be working 
okay. I hope it is.

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 8:26:54 PM UTC-5 Jim M. wrote:

> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

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[RBW] Re: What? No bikes at RBW?

2020-11-13 Thread Joe Bernard
Demand is nice but I'm not sure it's good that they can't keep up with it. 
You can't sell bikes you don't have. 

On Friday, November 13, 2020 at 5:26:54 PM UTC-8 Jim M. wrote:

> Anyone else notice that bikes are mostly out of stock at RBW? I'm not sure 
> if that's a good thing (they're successfully selling everything) or bad 
> thing (they're not keeping up with demand.
>
> jim m
> walnut creek
>

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