Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
On Saturday, December 20, 2014 5:11:26 PM UTC-5, Lynne Fitz wrote (partial quote): It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Lynne, what make/model has the +/- function??? Sounds extremely useful John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
I've got a Sigma Rox 9.1. I learned from another posting somewhere on this group about it. It apparently is on several Sigma bike computers, but their documentation is so... impenetrable, that it is hard to figure out what a lot of the functions are, and what you might want to use them for! On Tuesday, December 23, 2014 2:09:02 PM UTC-8, John Hawrylak wrote: On Saturday, December 20, 2014 5:11:26 PM UTC-5, Lynne Fitz wrote (partial quote): It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Lynne, what make/model has the +/- function??? Sounds extremely useful John Hawrylak Woodstown NJ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
On Sunday, December 21, 2014 3:27:25 AM UTC+8, Lynne Fitz wrote: This way: http://lynnerides.blogspot.com/2014/04/technical-aside-calibrating-bike.html Note that you're using RidewithGPS as the reference. While this is likely ideal for all cuesheets and distances gleamed from RidewithGPS, I don't know where RidewithGPS gets its topological data. Thus, it is possible that the distances won't match up mapping program-to-mapping program, to say nothing of mapping program-to-rollout calibration. Also note that GPS has less precision and therefore less potential accuracy than best-case wheel measurement methods (measuring runout on loaded bike). According to gps.gov http://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/, real-world data show that high-quality GPS SPS receivers provide better than 3.5 meter horizontal accuracy (GPS is relatively dismal for vertical accuracy). I don't know about you, but my rollouts have resolutions of 1cm (per 200+cm measurements) and my wheels track exactly where I go (not so with 3.5m GPS resolution), horizontally and vertically (so a 50-mile rolling hill sequence will measure longer on my setup versus GPS measurement). So while GPS may be good for gross distance measurement and point location, I believe rollouts are better for measuring how much displacement my bike actually undergoes. In the end though, what we're trying to achieve isn't to totally geek-out distance measurement. Each measurement has its pros and cons, and as long as the user is acquainted with the deficiencies of his/her particular setup, coupled with basic observational and orienteering skills, then we should be able to get to where we want to go (without getting too lost, lol). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Lets use a different example: Question: Hi list. I was wondering how I would go about making a pot of organic, beef bone broth, as I don't eat carbs. Any suggestions? Answer: You don't need organic beef bone broth. You should eat Chips Ahoy cookies instead. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 7:20:32 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote: Hey Lynne! Help me understand how what I said violates the big tent of different approaches to riding by different people? Do you consider sharing personal approaches that are different judgmental? With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, December 20, 2014 3:11:26 PM UTC-7, Lynne Fitz wrote: +1 Steve! It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Many cue sheets are generated via a mapping program which is based on google maps. While google may not be the absolute truth, it is A truth, and most of the cue sheets I use are generated by these mapping programs. Better than calibrating my bike computer to someone else's, or a car odometer. Aside: I love this group. Someone asks how do I set up to do X? because that is what they need to do, and there is always a set of responses of the type:oh, you don't need X. Folks, please realize that while we all have RBW bikes, we don't all do the same kind of riding, our bikes are configured to serve our purposes, nor do we have the same motivations to ride. Big tent and all that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Yeah, I do use RWGPS. I think it is the best thing since sliced bread, although I do take all vertical feet claims with a grain of salt. Wearing my other hat, as a member of the Randonneurs USA Routes committee; our job is to vet brevet routes. I get routes submitted as 1) a cue sheet, and, with any luck, an online mapping link. Not everyone uses RWGPS; I get links from other programs. My job is to take the cue sheet file, and make sure it meets certain criteria. I am assuming the submitters have created their cue sheets from their mapping program of choice. One of the things I do is virtually ride the route, using RWGPS. I haven't noticed more than a couple of tenths distance between what I get and what, say Trimble Outdoors gets. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Brian, Please re-read what I wrote. My response was nothing like your example. With abandon, Patrick On Monday, December 22, 2014 6:14:43 PM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote: Lets use a different example: Question: Hi list. I was wondering how I would go about making a pot of organic, beef bone broth, as I don't eat carbs. Any suggestions? Answer: You don't need organic beef bone broth. You should eat Chips Ahoy cookies instead. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 7:20:32 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote: Hey Lynne! Help me understand how what I said violates the big tent of different approaches to riding by different people? Do you consider sharing personal approaches that are different judgmental? With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, December 20, 2014 3:11:26 PM UTC-7, Lynne Fitz wrote: +1 Steve! It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Many cue sheets are generated via a mapping program which is based on google maps. While google may not be the absolute truth, it is A truth, and most of the cue sheets I use are generated by these mapping programs. Better than calibrating my bike computer to someone else's, or a car odometer. Aside: I love this group. Someone asks how do I set up to do X? because that is what they need to do, and there is always a set of responses of the type:oh, you don't need X. Folks, please realize that while we all have RBW bikes, we don't all do the same kind of riding, our bikes are configured to serve our purposes, nor do we have the same motivations to ride. Big tent and all that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
An actual parallel would be: Question: Which is best: electric, hand, or pocket knife can opener when making beef stew? Response: I don't use a can opener. I first make beef broth by ... I really appreciate the deeper, fuller flavor and increased nutrition. With abandon, Patrick On Monday, December 22, 2014 7:14:09 PM UTC-7, Deacon Patrick wrote: Brian, Please re-read what I wrote. My response was nothing like your example. With abandon, Patrick On Monday, December 22, 2014 6:14:43 PM UTC-7, Brian Campbell wrote: Lets use a different example: Question: Hi list. I was wondering how I would go about making a pot of organic, beef bone broth, as I don't eat carbs. Any suggestions? Answer: You don't need organic beef bone broth. You should eat Chips Ahoy cookies instead. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 7:20:32 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote: Hey Lynne! Help me understand how what I said violates the big tent of different approaches to riding by different people? Do you consider sharing personal approaches that are different judgmental? With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, December 20, 2014 3:11:26 PM UTC-7, Lynne Fitz wrote: +1 Steve! It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Many cue sheets are generated via a mapping program which is based on google maps. While google may not be the absolute truth, it is A truth, and most of the cue sheets I use are generated by these mapping programs. Better than calibrating my bike computer to someone else's, or a car odometer. Aside: I love this group. Someone asks how do I set up to do X? because that is what they need to do, and there is always a set of responses of the type:oh, you don't need X. Folks, please realize that while we all have RBW bikes, we don't all do the same kind of riding, our bikes are configured to serve our purposes, nor do we have the same motivations to ride. Big tent and all that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Spot of oil works great, but ride it with your anticipated weight (including your engine), as that changes things a wee bit. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
You will get the most accurate measurements by carefully measuring your roll out and using a cyclecomputer that counts wheel revolutions. I find the easiest way to measure roll out is to lay out a 50' cloth tape (using bricks or rocks to weight the ends helps), line up the valve stem at the 1 foot mark, then roll along the tape and stop with the valve stem at the bottom and read off the distance (don't forget to subtract the 1 foot for where you started). Alternatively you can use chalk to mark the road next to the valve stem and measure between the marks. Either way have the tire inflated to normal pressure and sit on the bike as you roll. I find it's easiest to do this right next to the sidewalk curb out in front of my house, but any parking lot should suffice. If that's more trouble than you want to deal with, just linearly interpolate between 25.35 in. for a 32mm tire and 25.84 in for a 45mm tire. Those are values I got with 650B GB Cypres, and 650B Schwalbe fatty respectively. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 6:21:29 AM UTC-8, lungimsam wrote: Which method is more accurate for getting more accurate cyclecomputer data? I am mostly interested in the miles ridden being accurate, if that is even possible on a cyclecomputer. I don't know how accurate these things are. My cycling app shows very different speed reads than my cycle computer. Also, which is more accurate? An iPhone cyclecomputer app, or an actual cycle computer? I am guessing the app is using GPS, but I have heard that GPS isn't so accurate either. *Rivcontent:* 1.Only one 650b size is available on cyclecomputers I have, so unless I have 37mm tires, I can't get an accurate read using that. 2. I find it difficult to accurately measure from ground to hub axle center accurately. Is that tire *really* standing vertical? 3. Roll out may be easier better? Lastly, if I have been using the one and only 650b x 37mm default wheel size setting on my cycle computer with my 42mm wide tires, I am guessing that the distances are being represented as shorter and the speeds shown as slower since the bigger actual tire is taking longer to make one revolution than the computer is expecting for the wheel size setting of 650b x 37mm? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
If you want to eliminate the discrepancy, just reduce the wheel circumference setting on your cateye by 2% (1 mile in 50 is 2 in 100 is 2%). On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:15:38 AM UTC-8, Tim wrote: Good question. I set my CatEye up as 700x32 (Compass Stampede Pass). The computer gains about 1 mile in 50 during every brevet I've ridden. So I'm guessing if it shows that I've gone 51 when th cue sheet reads 50, that probably means I'm riding slightly slower than the computer shows. I always reset at controls so it's not a huge issue but I've often wondered if other riders have similar experiences. Turn to turn distances are accurate and I'm sure there is some margin of error on cue sheets but my reading is consistently long. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
The easiest thing is no cyclometer. The second easiest thing is to use the 700x23 default number for your 650bx42 (both have a nominal radius of 334mm) Then ride a known distance and adjust accordingly. I've used the track at the high school. 4 laps = 1 mile. I've used the painted mile stripes at the bike path. Deacon is right about load affecting things, but your tire pressure also can. A 1% error in radius means a 1% error in your distance and 3mm of extra drop because you are running your tires softer than usual is a 1% error in radius. Getting better than 1% accurate is probably not worth the effort. On brevets, a 1 mile discrepancy between your computer and the cue sheet can EASILY be partially due to the cue sheet. A very noble, very generous volunteer made that cue sheet, using his cyclometer. S/he is not perfect either. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:08:05 AM UTC-8, ted wrote: If you want to eliminate the discrepancy, just reduce the wheel circumference setting on your cateye by 2% (1 mile in 50 is 2 in 100 is 2%). On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:15:38 AM UTC-8, Tim wrote: Good question. I set my CatEye up as 700x32 (Compass Stampede Pass). The computer gains about 1 mile in 50 during every brevet I've ridden. So I'm guessing if it shows that I've gone 51 when th cue sheet reads 50, that probably means I'm riding slightly slower than the computer shows. I always reset at controls so it's not a huge issue but I've often wondered if other riders have similar experiences. Turn to turn distances are accurate and I'm sure there is some margin of error on cue sheets but my reading is consistently long. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Mostly agree, Easiest thing is no cyclometer, Next easiest is gps only cyclometer (no calibration), Then comes the various ways of calibrating a wheel rev counting cyclometer. The standard value typically given for 700x23 is 2096mm circumference, which works out to about 26.26 inch diameter. Measuring roll out with Schwalbe 650B fatties (aka HS315) which measure about 45mm wide, I came up with a 25.84 inch diameter, which is ~1.5% less than the 26.26 value. My guestimate for the soma GRs is ~25.72 which is ~2% less than the 26.26 value. Is 1 or 2 percent worth bothering with? Thats up to each rider. Though cue sheets may be no more accurate than your own cyclometer, if you are consistently reading ~2% over the cue sheets, and you would like to agree with them, then adjusting your circumference setting to match is a reasonable thing to do. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:31:57 AM UTC-8, Bill Lindsay wrote: The easiest thing is no cyclometer. The second easiest thing is to use the 700x23 default number for your 650bx42 (both have a nominal radius of 334mm) Then ride a known distance and adjust accordingly. I've used the track at the high school. 4 laps = 1 mile. I've used the painted mile stripes at the bike path. Deacon is right about load affecting things, but your tire pressure also can. A 1% error in radius means a 1% error in your distance and 3mm of extra drop because you are running your tires softer than usual is a 1% error in radius. Getting better than 1% accurate is probably not worth the effort. On brevets, a 1 mile discrepancy between your computer and the cue sheet can EASILY be partially due to the cue sheet. A very noble, very generous volunteer made that cue sheet, using his cyclometer. S/he is not perfect either. On Saturday, December 20, 2014 10:08:05 AM UTC-8, ted wrote: If you want to eliminate the discrepancy, just reduce the wheel circumference setting on your cateye by 2% (1 mile in 50 is 2 in 100 is 2%). On Saturday, December 20, 2014 8:15:38 AM UTC-8, Tim wrote: Good question. I set my CatEye up as 700x32 (Compass Stampede Pass). The computer gains about 1 mile in 50 during every brevet I've ridden. So I'm guessing if it shows that I've gone 51 when th cue sheet reads 50, that probably means I'm riding slightly slower than the computer shows. I always reset at controls so it's not a huge issue but I've often wondered if other riders have similar experiences. Turn to turn distances are accurate and I'm sure there is some margin of error on cue sheets but my reading is consistently long. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
[RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Excellent point that the easiest thing is no computer. That's what I do. If necessary, I'll pull out the GPS on my phone for navigation, but that is rare. I do it because I much prefer the freedom I experience not riding to the computer (I'm too stupid not to ride to the computer, so I got ride of it). I do follow brevity like directions, but never in an actual brevity or organized ride of any kind. With abandon, Patrick -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
On 12/20/2014 02:53 PM, Deacon Patrick wrote: Excellent point that the easiest thing is no computer. That's what I do. If necessary, I'll pull out the GPS on my phone for navigation, but that is rare. I do it because I much prefer the freedom I experience not riding to the computer (I'm too stupid not to ride to the computer, so I got ride of it). I do follow brevity like directions, but never in an actual brevity or organized ride of any kind. Trust me, it makes a big difference when it is hours after sunset in an unfamiliar area, already beyond the longest distance you have ever done in your life with still 20 miles to go, knowing if you miss a turn or go off the route, you will have to find your way back to exactly the place where you went off course and then finish the prescribed distance, within the time allotted. It's not just a long ride. It's not even just a long ride with bureaucracy. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
+1 Steve! It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Many cue sheets are generated via a mapping program which is based on google maps. While google may not be the absolute truth, it is A truth, and most of the cue sheets I use are generated by these mapping programs. Better than calibrating my bike computer to someone else's, or a car odometer. Aside: I love this group. Someone asks how do I set up to do X? because that is what they need to do, and there is always a set of responses of the type:oh, you don't need X. Folks, please realize that while we all have RBW bikes, we don't all do the same kind of riding, our bikes are configured to serve our purposes, nor do we have the same motivations to ride. Big tent and all that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Which is best: Roll-out or default tire size on cyclecomputer or measuring wheel vertically?
Hey Lynne! Help me understand how what I said violates the big tent of different approaches to riding by different people? Do you consider sharing personal approaches that are different judgmental? With abandon, Patrick On Saturday, December 20, 2014 3:11:26 PM UTC-7, Lynne Fitz wrote: +1 Steve! It turns out that my bike computer has a distance +/- function, where, at some point on the cue sheet, I can enter the difference between the distance on the computer and the distance on the cue sheet. If I display that function, it shows the corrected distance. Many cue sheets are generated via a mapping program which is based on google maps. While google may not be the absolute truth, it is A truth, and most of the cue sheets I use are generated by these mapping programs. Better than calibrating my bike computer to someone else's, or a car odometer. Aside: I love this group. Someone asks how do I set up to do X? because that is what they need to do, and there is always a set of responses of the type:oh, you don't need X. Folks, please realize that while we all have RBW bikes, we don't all do the same kind of riding, our bikes are configured to serve our purposes, nor do we have the same motivations to ride. Big tent and all that. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
