Re: [RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I'm not the ultimate expert, but I have used sealant extensively in tubes and in tubeless tires. My own conclusions are based largely on Orange Seal in its regular/original and "Endurance" formulae and Stan's of 5-6 years ago. My experience: 1. Good modern sealants do allow you to use very nice, light, supple tires in goathead infested areas where, without sealants, such tires mean a thorn flat every ~10 miles or more frequently. 2. Orange Seal works better than Stan's in tubes and tubeless, at least the Stan's available in 2014. That is to say, both in tubes and tubeless as described below, OS seals faster, and more often without the "pump and spin" intervention -- IOW, with OS you notice fewer flats. 3. OS works very well in tubeless tires at low pressures. For me, "low pressures" are sub 30 psi, regularly 18-to-21 psi, and generally above 16 psi. I have not used it tubeless over about 35 psi. 4. OS Endurance works as well as OS Regular in low pressure -- as above -- tubeless tires, and has the advantage of lasting longer: I seem to get 4 to 6 months instead of ~3-4 months between fillings; the sign of the need for replenishment is more punctures that don't seal "automatically" and that you therefore notice. (Note that replenishment generally speaking seems to be required less often in colder, more humid conditions than in our summer conditions of mid-90s*F/ sub 10% humidity.) 5. OS works very well in tubes at higher pressures, say over 40 or 45 psi; at 50 to 60 psi it works about 95% (the number is a metaphor, not a statistic) as well as in tubeless tires at the low pressures mentioned, where it works very well indeed;. 6. OS Does not work well in tubes at very low pressures: say, 20 psi. Discovering this made me switch to tubeless for off road riding. 7. OS **Endurance** does not work well in tubes even at higher pressures --at the 50 to 60 psi at which I keep my 28 mm Elk Passes. I had almost as frequent goathead flats with OS E as without any sealant -- over a month or so, every ~ 10 miles with 178 gram 559 X 28 Elk Passes -- as with similar tires sans sealant -- 700C X 29 mm Parigi Roubaix -- which flatted every ~5 miles or so. When I switched back to OS R for these road tubes, the flat experience reverted to "normal" as above. 8. Very important: Sealant is not a magic cure-all; it can be a f*g pain in the arse, though a minor pain when used where it works best. If you don't have goatheads, I'd think very hard about using it at all. OTOH, it lets you use truly superlative tires in environments where, tubeless or tubes, they'd otherwise not be possible at all. My own threshold for fixing flats is pretty high: if I could get by with no more than 2 flats per 100 miles, I'd choose tubes and no sealant for road tires. More than this -- I rode for years here in goathead land using over 150 Remas per year -- I choose sealant in tubes. As for sealant in tubeless tires at road pressures, I don't have experience with these, but stories like that referenced make me hesitate. On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 4:27 PM Brady Smith wrote: > > A few months ago I was behind a guy on a brevet who was riding a brand new > Giant road bike--Di2, road tubeless, the works. He hit a staple and I got a > rather large spray of sealant in the face. He also spent the next 45 minutes > trying and failing to seal the hole, then getting a tube in, then having the > tube fail because of debris in the tire, etc. I'd been tubeless-curious up > until that point, but I decided thereafter that my tubed Paselas work just > fine. > > On Saturday, --- Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfguk4%3DjLu0tLaiUJ8R4DkrokX2WksZCwUCN-QVr-hGxjFw%40mail.gmail.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
A few months ago I was behind a guy on a brevet who was riding a brand new Giant road bike--Di2, road tubeless, the works. He hit a staple and I got a rather large spray of sealant in the face. He also spent the next 45 minutes trying and failing to seal the hole, then getting a tube in, then having the tube fail because of debris in the tire, etc. I'd been tubeless-curious up until that point, but I decided thereafter that my tubed Paselas work just fine. On Saturday, May 16, 2020 at 12:27:24 PM UTC-4, jack loudon wrote: > > "I’m still hung up on the $60 patch kit. Not only that, added I still need > to carry a spare tube." > > In addition to the above, fenders are needed to contain the latex spray > that is otherwise flung on bike and self as the larger punctures seal. Ask > me how I know :) > > Jack - Seattle > > On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: >> >> I’m still hung up on the $60 patch kit. Not only that, added I still need >> to carry a spare tube. >> >> Bill Lindsay >> El Cerrito Ca > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ddcde16e-856e-4f5c-970d-9cf12fdb72b3%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
The newer the tire and rim the better the chance they will seat easily. M ok st manufacturers have fine tuned their rim and tire designs to make mounting easier. I got a snake bite flat on a tube bike the other day with 3.25 miles to get home. The whole way home I was thinking "if this was tubeless, this wouldn't have happened!" You are less likely to be stranded running tubeless and if you are running around town, not in the wilderness or far from home I wouldn't even carry a spare tube; they are heck to get in at home with proper tools sometimes, on the side of the road? Forget it! If you burp the tire and lose pressure, you like were running too low of pressure to start with. All I typically carry around town now is a small $20 plug kit. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ebaf6939-e9dd-42a6-84d6-dac86cd17923%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I ran Babyshoe Pass tires on Pacenti Brevet wheels for couple of months - on my road bike that has Reynolds 631 tubing. The ride was dreamy. I kept thinking there is no going back to inner tubes. Then one day the rear tire suddently deflated 100% in a second while I was riding on a city street. I nearly crashed. Thankfully I was going under 15mph. The very thought of this type of incident occurring while riding downhill or down a ramp at 30mph scared me. The sidewall had a cut. I removed tire, wiped wheels and tires off the orange goo, put a piece of gorilla tape from inside at the spot of the cut and went back to inner tubes. I miss that awesome cushy ride, but the classic setup just makes me feel safer. As for the seating the tires, I could get Babyshoe Passes to pop with an old cheap walmart pump I have, as the air volume needed is not much. When I (for a brief period) converted my MIT Atlantis setup to tubeless (2.3″ Rat Trap Pass tires/Cliffhangers), I went for one of these https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01BJ4MXQY/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8=1 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/031f7578-8d78-4957-86c3-3e74869310ef%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
"I’m still hung up on the $60 patch kit. Not only that, added I still need to carry a spare tube." In addition to the above, fenders are needed to contain the latex spray that is otherwise flung on bike and self as the larger punctures seal. Ask me how I know :) Jack - Seattle On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 1:11:05 PM UTC-7, Bill Lindsay wrote: > > I’m still hung up on the $60 patch kit. Not only that, added I still need > to carry a spare tube. > > Bill Lindsay > El Cerrito Ca -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/f9c27789-c10f-4360-95b5-3b566e6a54e7%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Me, too. I use a regular floor pump and spray a little soapy water around the bead to help it slide into place. If that doesn't work, then I use a tube (yes, the irony) to seat the bead. Remove bead on one side and pull the tube. Same soapy water and inflate with floor pump. On Friday, May 15, 2020 at 10:30:19 PM UTC-4, Paul Y wrote: > > FWIWI I have been using a floor pump and seating schwalbe tires (knobby > nic, racing ralph) just fine on Stans Rims (arch 29, flow 26) since 2012. > They seat at about 40 PSI for me. > > The amount of rim tape used has been an important factor. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/ee85d65a-0a96-4fd2-98ea-6e62c5418709%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I've seated tires with a regular pump. It takes patience and much massaging of the beads. I've got a compressor, otherwise I'd be looking for a new pump. Enjoy! -Kai -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/2009f37b-bad1-4523-b263-61425735bd8c%40googlegroups.com.
Re: [RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I have only limited experience mounting tubeless tires. Just on my own mountain bike, in fact. But I really don't see how you could ever get the tire beads to pop onto the rim's bead seat without far more air flow than any hand or floor pump can provide. And until both tire beads are on the bead seats of the rim, it just isn't going to hold any air. With a compressor you can quickly raise the internal pressure relative to atmospheric pressure and pop the tire onto the bead seat, even while air is escaping around the tire beads. PJW On Fri, May 15, 2020 at 1:54 PM Jonathan D. wrote: > Do any of the bike pumps really work with tubleless setup? My bump broke > so was thinking of replacing it with something that could work with > tubeless setup in lieu of having an air compressor. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "RBW Owners Bunch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/64d4fe43-d7bc-4e24-95f4-2eca512da7bf%40googlegroups.com > . > -- Peter White -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CA%2BD%3DXm8PROwERHzip%3DD7LmjXdFNPOTHktwBpPaQPfQNqNvU7WA%40mail.gmail.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Do any of the bike pumps really work with tubleless setup? My bump broke so was thinking of replacing it with something that could work with tubeless setup in lieu of having an air compressor. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/64d4fe43-d7bc-4e24-95f4-2eca512da7bf%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
The hole is right on the bead where it contacts the rim. I am actually going to try and fix it, because I like the tire and I can't find ones like it anymore. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/277a256b-a397-433b-89da-83b6d7c45da9%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
What made it unfixable? On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 11:33:09 PM UTC-5, masmojo wrote: > > FWIW, I've converted 6 wheels to tubeless in the last 6 weeks. Jumped out > on my most recent set up the other day hauling ass when, near as I can tell > a large lug nut that was wedged up against a traffic dot, flatted my back > tire. > I struck it so hard that it lifted the rear of my bike 2 or 3 inches off > the ground & broke the traffic dot free from the cement, which in turn went > skittering across the road. > I immediately knew there was no way it was going to seal on it's own > luckily I was only 2 miles from the house. > I plugged the entry hole only to discover there was A PINCH FLAT! It seems > that even with 50 PSI, the tire compressed enough to pinch the sidewall > between the rim & the debris!!! I thought "just my luck; only I would get > an unfixable flat in a brand new tire only days after setting it up" > So one new tire later I am back on the road! > > https://photos.app.goo.gl/XdDj673t8isHNzRe9 > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/0b4ae57c-c166-4bb1-9c79-16eb6bec6a13%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Good stuff there, both in the OP and the different guides from Analog. I can echo a couple things: - The yellow tape by Sun and other brands is really bad (and expensive)! Unfortunately it seems to be really common at brick and motor bike shops in my area. I like the tape made by Whisky, but have also used Gorilla tape in a pinch on fat bike rims with consistent success. - Orange Seal Endurance - thumbs up! - I like using soapy water, but in a mini spray bottle. It's a handy thing to keep on your work bench for a number of reasons (besides cleaning your bike). You can spray it on the beads to help seat the tire and for trouble shooting leaky spots once the tire is mounted. Occasionally you run into mysteries where a tire isn't holding pressure over time, but you don't know if it's due to sidewall seepage, faulty valve, snake bite, or a tiny puncture somewhere. Spray soapy water over the wheel and it will quickly bubble up where the air is escaping. I try to use it sparingly while seating the bead so it doesn't dilute the sealant. It doesn't take much. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/80738912-1f79-494c-84ce-b4f0d9b6bfa9%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
FWIW, I've converted 6 wheels to tubeless in the last 6 weeks. Jumped out on my most recent set up the other day hauling ass when, near as I can tell a large lug nut that was wedged up against a traffic dot, flatted my back tire. I struck it so hard that it lifted the rear of my bike 2 or 3 inches off the ground & broke the traffic dot free from the cement, which in turn went skittering across the road. I immediately knew there was no way it was going to seal on it's own luckily I was only 2 miles from the house. I plugged the entry hole only to discover there was A PINCH FLAT! It seems that even with 50 PSI, the tire compressed enough to pinch the sidewall between the rim & the debris!!! I thought "just my luck; only I would get an unfixable flat in a brand new tire only days after setting it up" So one new tire later I am back on the road! https://photos.app.goo.gl/XdDj673t8isHNzRe9 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3f52d43a-6aa6-4d48-8faa-d688174ee6d5%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I'm not worried about any of the setup because Analog Cycle is doing that for me. :) Also, on my Joe Appaloosa, I think I had one flat in three years. Perhaps two. The reason I'm trying tubeless is for an improved ride. Between switching from heavy stock Kendas that came on my bike moving to Gravel King 48 slicks, AND going tubeless, I'm expecting a better ride quality. But, I wouldn't have gone tubeless if it meant more flats. Roberta On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/05a91e3b-a4f8-49f7-a0ed-70f3458113f4%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
My slightly dissenting take: Listening to folks explain how easy setting up tubeless tires is reminds me of when I used to tell folks gluing on tubular racing tires was no big deal. Though I never use a higher pressure to avoid pinch flats, I never get them. I mean in the last 2 decades I think I got 1 pinch flat and that was whomping a sizeable rock coming down a trail riding 45mm tires (schwalbe "fatties" from RBW) at between 20 and 25 psi. For me avoiding pinch flats is not a selling point for going tubeless. I go weeks on end without getting a single flat all the time. But even though I live in the land of drought and am rarely out in inclement weather, when I do get one I don't like it, and almost all my flats are from wires or thorns or small flints which I expect OS would have sealed without me even stopping. So I have some interest in considering the whole tubeless thing. To that end I have acquired and am now using a set of wheels set up tubeless on one of my bikes. So far (~6 months in) it seems fine and has the following advantages for me: When I ride that bike along a trail with goat head producing flora all about I am much less worried, and so far 0 flats. I tend to ride that bike on days after it rains (when there tends to be much more crap along the side of the roads), again less worried and so far 0 flats. I have another bike with tubeless compatible rims that I've not gone tubeless on. I may consider it, but where my tubeless wheels have WTB Byways on em, that other bike wears 38mm RH extralights. I've heard the RH extralights sidewalls tend to weep when set up tubeless, and that doesn't sound like fun to me. On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:49:23 AM UTC-7, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >
Re: [RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
FWIW, I find that Orange Seal, both Regular and Endurance (I think that the Endurance is a bit "thinner" -- like skim milk instead of 4%) will from time to time clog my valves; very annoying when you find you've overinflated a tire and the gunk won't let you release pressure unless you basically disassemble the valve and poke a stick down the valve stem to clear it. I will add, FWIW, that if you live in goatheadland, then modern sealants let you ride nice tires without going through 2 100-unit boxes of Remas a year while riding less nice tires (Kojaks). I don't know if I ever went through a full 200, but I sure did get through more than 150, and this while riding under 4K miles a year (maxed out at 4K when commuting to a real office; dropped to an aspirational 3K thereafter) on 3-4-5 bikes. Here is my experience. Stan's and OS work bloody wonderful in very thin (F Fred, Big One) very fat (50 and 60 mm actual) tires at very low (down to 18 psi) pressures, when you set these tires up tubeless; sealant is no bloody good with tubes at pressures under -- gross guess, but based on my experience -- about 35 psi. Stans' and OS work pretty well (that's 2 units down on the wonderful scale) when used in tubes at pressures higher than ~ 40+ -- 29 mm Parigi Roubaix and 28 mm Rene Herse Elk Passes. At lower pressures, there's not enough of it to force the sealant into the holes in the tubes. Orange Seal Endurance works very well for low pressure, fat, tubeless tires; it works less well for 40 psi+ tires with tubes; Orange Seal Regular seems to plug holes better in tubes at these pressures. And Stan's (note: I switched to OS back in about 2014, so my experience with Stan's may be dated; I know only the 2014 Stan's) works well in tubes at 40psi + but not as well as OS; and Stan's also worked well in fat, thinwall, tubeless tires at low pressures, but OS, both varieties, works considerably better. Stan's will dry to form little rubber octopuses; OS dries to a film. OS both varieties seems to remain liquid longer than Stan's, both in tubes and in tubeless tires. Stan's seems to remain liquid in tubes for at least 12 months (high desert; summer humidity often sub 10% -- I've seen it at 5%); but OS, both, seems to last longer -- at least 18 months. I've not had time to compare OS R with OS E here. Overall, these sealants work better in tubeless tires of the fat, thinwall, low pressure variety than in lightweight tubes in thinwall tires at road pressures; OTOH, these sealants work well enough in the latter to let you ride gossamer-light, supple road tires (559 X 28 Elk Pass = 178 grams) at 40-65 psi pressures in places where goatheads abound and where, from personal experience, without sealants, you will very literally get a thorn flat every 1 or 2 miles. Lastly, as good as modern sealants are, they are *not* the Holy Grail and *ne plus ultra* of nice-tire heaven. Even modern sealants are messy pains in the a** -- more messy in tubes than in tubeless, but messy in tubeless when you get a larger hole than thorns make, and even thorn holes will often have the sealant spraying for a few wheel revolutions until it plugs the hole. But the tradeoff is certainly worth it for off road tubeless; and it is worth it even for road tubes if you like to ride paper tire or don't like to patch tubes while riding heavier tires. My cut-off point would be about 1 patch a week. If I could ride top-quality road tires (Rene Herse) with tubes and fix just 1 puncture a week at 60-80 miles per week, I'd not use sealant. More than that, I'll take it. FWIW too, I *never* get pinch flats even with fat tires and tubes at 12 psi on dirt. The last time I got a pinch flat, about 8 years ago, was by deliberately riding fast into a patch of large, sharp-edge gravel on pavement, on 190 gram 22 mm tires at 80 psi front, to see if I would -- pinch flat. I did. On Wed, Apr 15, 2020 at 1:36 PM Rick Thompson wrote: > I had the same problem after changing from Orange Seal to Panaracer > sealant, but found I could clear the clogged valve stem with a nail. Now I > fill until flow slows down, pull off the fill tube and push the bunch of > walnuts shells in with the nail, put back the tube and continue. I am not > sure the Panaracer is any better than OS, may change back after using up > the big bottle. > > On sidewall weeping: both OS and Panaracer weeped with RH extralight > tires, but the endurance tires do not weep at all. Living in goathead > country, these are my now my favorites. Ride is slightly less plush than > the extralights. > > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 11:13:04 AM UTC-7, Clark Fitzgerald wrote: >> >> I was unable to add Panaracer sealant through the valve because the large >> bits of walnut inside clog it up. Had to unseat the bead, add it directly >> to the tire, and reseat the bead- all the hassle of the initial setup. It >> was very frustrating. Lesson: use sealant you can top off through the valve. >> >> >> On Wednesday, April
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I had the same problem after changing from Orange Seal to Panaracer sealant, but found I could clear the clogged valve stem with a nail. Now I fill until flow slows down, pull off the fill tube and push the bunch of walnuts shells in with the nail, put back the tube and continue. I am not sure the Panaracer is any better than OS, may change back after using up the big bottle. On sidewall weeping: both OS and Panaracer weeped with RH extralight tires, but the endurance tires do not weep at all. Living in goathead country, these are my now my favorites. Ride is slightly less plush than the extralights. On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 11:13:04 AM UTC-7, Clark Fitzgerald wrote: > > I was unable to add Panaracer sealant through the valve because the large > bits of walnut inside clog it up. Had to unseat the bead, add it directly > to the tire, and reseat the bead- all the hassle of the initial setup. It > was very frustrating. Lesson: use sealant you can top off through the valve. > > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:08:21 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles > wrote: >> >> FWIW, Panaracer sealant freezes at very mild temps, and becomes >> unusable. We discovered this on a night that was in the high 20's. Our >> shop is not heated at night and we came back to unusable sealant. Maybe >> this isn't the case if it's mixed. >> >> -James >> >> >> On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: >>> >>> There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons >>> of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I >>> wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those >>> considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on >>> tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely >>> interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking >>> with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a >>> bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. >>> >>> The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in >>> your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. >>> Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, >>> there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to >>> share those with you based on my own experiences. >>> >>> You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you >>> are a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride >>> quality with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone >>> but there are other benefits. >>> >>> Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire >>> with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire >>> allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal >>> you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the >>> flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats >>> will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in >>> the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That >>> said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug >>> the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a >>> significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can >>> get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with >>> gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel >>> from the bike as well. >>> >>> Final tips: >>> >>>- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >>>- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >>>last resort but it should be rare. >>>- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >>>pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as >>> claimed. >>>I know because I own one. >>>- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't >>>work and not worth the frustration. See above. >>>- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. >>>Blows away anything else I've ever tried. >>>- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work >>>with, has the right amount of stretch. >>>- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >>>that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills >>> on >>>my bikes. Both set up easily. >>>- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >>>- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. >>>Doesn't happen if you set everything up correctly. >>>- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >>>successful set up. >>>- Refill with fresh sealant every six
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Thanks for posting. The info that James has posted on Analog's site is great and aligns with my experiences and struggles. I've converted my wider-tired bikes to tubeless for the same reasons: 1. lower pressure w/o pinch flat fears 2. strikingly fewer flats, almost none. I would also be interesting in the differences between setting up wider rim tire combos and road 28-32mm tires that are run at higher pressures. So far, I've only set up my fatter >38mm tire bikes. But, I'm about to set up a regular-ass road bike wheelset with 28mm Conti 5000TL tires. Scott Calhoun On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:49:23 AM UTC-7, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/90da795b-3225-4979-8655-33fff08a3dee%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I was unable to add Panaracer sealant through the valve because the large bits of walnut inside clog it up. Had to unseat the bead, add it directly to the tire, and reseat the bead- all the hassle of the initial setup. It was very frustrating. Lesson: use sealant you can top off through the valve. On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:08:21 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles wrote: > > FWIW, Panaracer sealant freezes at very mild temps, and becomes unusable. > We discovered this on a night that was in the high 20's. Our shop is not > heated at night and we came back to unusable sealant. Maybe this isn't the > case if it's mixed. > > -James > > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: >> >> There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons >> of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I >> wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those >> considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on >> tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely >> interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking >> with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a >> bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. >> >> The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in >> your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. >> Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, >> there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to >> share those with you based on my own experiences. >> >> You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are >> a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality >> with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but >> there are other benefits. >> >> Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire >> with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire >> allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal >> you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the >> flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats >> will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in >> the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That >> said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug >> the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a >> significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can >> get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with >> gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel >> from the bike as well. >> >> Final tips: >> >>- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >>- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >>last resort but it should be rare. >>- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >>pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as >> claimed. >>I know because I own one. >>- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't >>work and not worth the frustration. See above. >>- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. >>Blows away anything else I've ever tried. >>- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work >>with, has the right amount of stretch. >>- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >>that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills >> on >>my bikes. Both set up easily. >>- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >>- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >>happen if you set everything up correctly. >>- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >>successful set up. >>- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >>- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >>easier. >> >> Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show >> tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b4b45cb3-05ee-4060-ab99-db30bc6d2f47%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Hmm, good point! It barely drops below 40 where I live so ignore that suggestion then! On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:08:21 AM UTC-7, James / Analog Cycles wrote: > > FWIW, Panaracer sealant freezes at very mild temps, and becomes unusable. > We discovered this on a night that was in the high 20's. Our shop is not > heated at night and we came back to unusable sealant. Maybe this isn't the > case if it's mixed. > > -James > > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: >> >> There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons >> of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I >> wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those >> considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on >> tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely >> interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking >> with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a >> bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. >> >> The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in >> your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. >> Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, >> there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to >> share those with you based on my own experiences. >> >> You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are >> a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality >> with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but >> there are other benefits. >> >> Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire >> with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire >> allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal >> you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the >> flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats >> will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in >> the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That >> said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug >> the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a >> significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can >> get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with >> gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel >> from the bike as well. >> >> Final tips: >> >>- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >>- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >>last resort but it should be rare. >>- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >>pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as >> claimed. >>I know because I own one. >>- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't >>work and not worth the frustration. See above. >>- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. >>Blows away anything else I've ever tried. >>- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work >>with, has the right amount of stretch. >>- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >>that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills >> on >>my bikes. Both set up easily. >>- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >>- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >>happen if you set everything up correctly. >>- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >>successful set up. >>- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >>- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >>easier. >> >> Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show >> tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/5668b7f2-9bd4-4fb6-890e-136ddcbb523f%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
FWIW, Panaracer sealant freezes at very mild temps, and becomes unusable. We discovered this on a night that was in the high 20's. Our shop is not heated at night and we came back to unusable sealant. Maybe this isn't the case if it's mixed. -James On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/b3bdbfe2-6633-4bd5-9bfb-a8975e511e11%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I'll chime in on some of the notes below: - Tubeless sealant - Try using an 80/20 mix of orange seal and Panaracer sealant for tires that have weeping sidewall issues when setup tubeless (RH extralights, for example). I use this on the three tubeless bikes I have now and found they help seal better. - Tubeless repair - The relatively new Stan's Dart tool has worked much better than the dynaplug for me. It is also cheaper and easier to reload/refill than the dynaplug. - Valve core remover - You can use the chain breaker or spoke wrench on your multitool to remove the core. Most new-ish tools (at least 5 years out) seem to be able to accomplish this task. Great summary on tubeless, Tim! On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 5:49:23 AM UTC-7, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d50bd8e0-548c-459f-996d-ed987bcb6cf9%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
I've had to use the trouble shooting tips (along with a phone call to Candice) Extra layer of tape was all it took to solve my issue! Truly good stuff in those links! On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 10:34:20 AM UTC-4, James / Analog Cycles wrote: > > Thanks Tim! Stoked to be doing the clinic. We also have a huge tubeless > tutorial on our site, with trouble shooting stuff, a pros and cons write > up, and all of the bits you need to get started, except an air compressor. > > Here's those links: > > Set up guide: > https://www.analogcycles.com/true-facts-components/analogs-tubeless-set-up-guide/ > > Component selection: > https://www.analogcycles.com/tubeless-component-selection/ > > Maintenance and repairs: > https://www.analogcycles.com/true-facts-components/tubeless-maintainence-repairs/ > > Not all tubeless stuff is created equally. We've tried and tested a bunch > of rims, tapes, tires, sealants, valve stems, and honed in on what is BS > and what works. There's a reason you don't see certain makers listed in > our articles. It's because someone else does a better job of making X or Y. > > -James > > On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: >> >> There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons >> of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I >> wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those >> considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on >> tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely >> interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking >> with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a >> bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. >> >> The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in >> your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. >> Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, >> there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to >> share those with you based on my own experiences. >> >> You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are >> a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality >> with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but >> there are other benefits. >> >> Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire >> with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire >> allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal >> you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the >> flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats >> will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in >> the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That >> said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug >> the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a >> significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can >> get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with >> gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel >> from the bike as well. >> >> Final tips: >> >>- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >>- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >>last resort but it should be rare. >>- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >>pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as >> claimed. >>I know because I own one. >>- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't >>work and not worth the frustration. See above. >>- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. >>Blows away anything else I've ever tried. >>- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work >>with, has the right amount of stretch. >>- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >>that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills >> on >>my bikes. Both set up easily. >>- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >>- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >>happen if you set everything up correctly. >>- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >>successful set up. >>- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >>- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >>easier. >> >> Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show >> tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. >> >> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> -- You received
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
Thanks Tim! Stoked to be doing the clinic. We also have a huge tubeless tutorial on our site, with trouble shooting stuff, a pros and cons write up, and all of the bits you need to get started, except an air compressor. Here's those links: Set up guide: https://www.analogcycles.com/true-facts-components/analogs-tubeless-set-up-guide/ Component selection: https://www.analogcycles.com/tubeless-component-selection/ Maintenance and repairs: https://www.analogcycles.com/true-facts-components/tubeless-maintainence-repairs/ Not all tubeless stuff is created equally. We've tried and tested a bunch of rims, tapes, tires, sealants, valve stems, and honed in on what is BS and what works. There's a reason you don't see certain makers listed in our articles. It's because someone else does a better job of making X or Y. -James On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/3dac9508-7007-4846-9bec-75e2a9c55397%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
My tubeless journey got under way just as C19 got going. I have a set of 650b Pacenti Brevets with RH Babyshoe Pass mounted. All’s well and maybe I’ll better for not starting with tubes at this width (650b x 42). Andy Cheatham Pittsburgh -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/4d79311c-87b5-4a59-a47f-27faacd940b4%40googlegroups.com.
[RBW] Re: Why I went Tubeless
This is awesome, thanks for pulling this together! I recently had a pair of wheels built with Cliffhangers with Hurricane Ridge tubeless tires for my SimpleOne. Really had no clue what tubeless meant, for me, I was like, is that some sort of sew-up deal? But hell no, really cool improvement in the tire department. Great to know that James is net-casting a a tubeless how-to! Scott scottallison.org On Wednesday, April 15, 2020 at 8:49:23 AM UTC-4, Tim Bantham wrote: > > There's been some discussion on the board lately about the pros and cons > of tubeless tires. I am a tubeless believer but I wasn't always that way. I > wanted to share my experiences as a way of adding some perspective to those > considering giving it a go. Analog cycles is doing an Instagram live on > tubeless tonight at 5:00 PM ET. You should watch it if you are remotely > interested. Much of my current tubeless knowledge was gained by talking > with James and Candice. Before I met the good folks at Analog I had quite a > bit of experience with tubeless setups. Some good and some not so good. > > The first thing I'll make clear is that you can continue to run tubes in > your tires and be perfectly happy for the remainder of your biking life. > Nothing wrong with that. Tubeless is not going to rock your world. However, > there are many benefits to setting your tires up tubeless. I'd like to > share those with you based on my own experiences. > > You can run low pressure without fear of getting a pinch flat. If you are > a Riv fan you already know the benefit of soft tires. Subtle ride quality > with lots of cush to absorb the bumps. To me this is worth it alone but > there are other benefits. > > Much easier to fix a flat tire. True confession I rarely get a flat tire > with tubeless. If you get a small puncture sometimes just riding the tire > allows sealant to get into the hole and seal the tire. If it doesn't seal > you have to plug the hole. Let's say you run over a nail. You can fix the > flat without removing the wheel. Murphy's law is that 75% of your flats > will be on the rear tire.With a tube you have to take the rear wheel off in > the field. No big deal right? I know... I've done it tons of times. That > said, if I can avoid doing so why wouldn't I? With tubeless you can plug > the hole without removing the wheel from the bike. That to me that is a > significant benefit. Of course there remains the possibility that you can > get a gash in the sidewall. That happens but if you are prepared with > gorilla tape and gorilla glue you can fix that without removing the wheel > from the bike as well. > > Final tips: > >- Get the Dynapill made by Dynaplug for your tubeless repairs. >- Still carry a tube with you. A tube could always be installed as a >last resort but it should be rare. >- Invest in a good air compressor. An air compressor is handy! The >pumps that are sold claiming to seat tubeless tires don't work as claimed. >I know because I own one. >- Don't try to seat tubeless with a regular bicycle pump. Doesn't work >and not worth the frustration. See above. >- Use Orange Seal Endurance Sealant. Best sealant on the market. Blows >away anything else I've ever tried. >- The tubeless tape that Analog sells is fantastic! Easy to work with, >has the right amount of stretch. >- Don't try to set up any old rim/tire combo tubeless. Look for rims >that are advertised as tubeless. I have Velocity Cliffhangers and Quills > on >my bikes. Both set up easily. >- Buy a tubeless ready tire. >- Don't worry about sealant randomly oozing out of your tire. Doesn't >happen if you set everything up correctly. >- Use a regular bicycle pump to maintain air in your tires after >successful set up. >- Refill with fresh sealant every six months. >- Buy the Park Tools valve core remover to make adding fresh sealant >easier. > > Hit me up with any questions. Do watch the tubeless set up live show > tonight on Instagram and go to Analogs website for tubeless set up tips. > > Tim > > > > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/86646aeb-bd7c-4845-888d-f6d46fdc5931%40googlegroups.com.
