Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Toshi Takeuchi]

My friend's nickname given to him by his roadie clubmates is Caltrans.  He
wears that with a badge of honor!

Toshi


On Mon, Sep 30, 2019 at 9:47 AM Mark Roland 
wrote:

> I use the construction vest over regular clothing. I like these better
> than the cycling-specific or sport ones because, in my experience, they
> tend to be higher quality and not such a fitted fit. Also, pockets. And
> yeah, it's a bit (a lot?) on the dorky side. Years ago I glided past a
> group of kids walking in the middle of the road. One kid got startled. "Oh,
> snap!" Another kid says, "Oh, that's crossing school guard guy." I wear the
> vest, and the moniker, proudly. And, possibly, a bit more safely.
>
>
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Rick Thompson]

I don't really like the pool noodle thing (it sticks out too far and makes 
the bike too wide), but I found putting one of the big triangles on a 
basket traffic side on my commuter bike seems to have improved the car 
passing distance.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/ricks_boats/42876972620/in/dateposted-public/lightbox/


On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Over the last few weeks I've had two close calls with automobiles during 
> my morning commute that really seem to come down to 'I didn't see you'.
>
> I currently have a dyno hub with full-time lights front and rear, and try 
> and ride predictably, but seems like I need to up my visibility game. I'm 
> thinking a very bright and loud reflective vest. Needs to be pretty light 
> weight though, maybe even a mesh.
>
> Any suggestions from the group mind on either vests you have been happy 
> with, or other tips n tricks for daytime visibility?
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[John Phillips]

   We live near UC Berkeley, and my wife and I find ourselves talking about 
how visible or invisible commuter cyclists are on the street as we drive 
around on errands, etc. One needs to drive cautiously, because few cyclists 
around here obey the traffic laws. What we've noticed is how often urban 
cyclists are only visible from the saddle or waist up, their legs and 
bicycles being hidden by the trunks and hoods of cars. Neither of us are 
color blind, which would change our perspective, but we've found brightly 
colored helmets, backpacks, vests, shirts or jackets to be the most visible 
during the day. Bright blue seems to be the most visible on sunny days. 
Yellow, orange & fluorescent colors are the most visible on foggy, cloudy 
and rainy days. At night, bike lights & reflective materials need to be 
mounted saddle height or higher to be seen in traffic.

   Without traffic blocking our view, bike lights, reflectors, and 
especially reflective leg bands are great at night or on rainy days.

John


On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 11:09:34 AM UTC-7, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Over the last few weeks I've had two close calls with automobiles during 
> my morning commute that really seem to come down to 'I didn't see you'.
>
> I currently have a dyno hub with full-time lights front and rear, and try 
> and ride predictably, but seems like I need to up my visibility game. I'm 
> thinking a very bright and loud reflective vest. Needs to be pretty light 
> weight though, maybe even a mesh.
>
> Any suggestions from the group mind on either vests you have been happy 
> with, or other tips n tricks for daytime visibility?
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Mark Roland]

I use the construction vest over regular clothing. I like these better than
the cycling-specific or sport ones because, in my experience, they tend to
be higher quality and not such a fitted fit. Also, pockets. And yeah, it's
a bit (a lot?) on the dorky side. Years ago I glided past a group of kids
walking in the middle of the road. One kid got startled. "Oh, snap!"
Another kid says, "Oh, that's crossing school guard guy." I wear the vest,
and the moniker, proudly. And, possibly, a bit more safely.

On Sun, Sep 29, 2019 at 1:14 PM Joe S  wrote:

> I've been hit twice by cars in the last 10 years. After the second one put
> me in the hospital I started riding with Carhartt Force Class 3 Hi-vis
> shirts. I have both long and short sleeve versions. Not very stylish, but I
> haven't had a close call since using them. I realize that could be more
> luck than anything else, but I'm sticking with them. Lighter and more
> comfortable than wearing a vest. I'm not a cycling jersey type of rider
> anyway.
>
> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:46 PM PaulS  wrote:
>
>> Some of the responses above seem to reference dark/night-time riding.  I
>> thought the question was regarding daylight hours.
>>
>> For me, from what I've observed both on the bike and driving, is that
>> cyclists' apparel does not do anything during daylight hours.  Light,
>> reflective, dark, orange, etc.---once the cyclist rides under the shadow of
>> a tree, building, etc., they "disappear".  Reflective gear doesn't work,
>> since half the cars have their lights off and there is too much ambient
>> light.  In my opinion, a light emitting source is needed.
>>
>> Bright rear AND front lights are a must.  BLINKING mode, not constant on,
>> got my attention the most.  Maybe even two lights.  Don't get a minimalist
>> Knog or the likes. I can barely see those at night time, let alone during
>> the day.  I use PDW Radbot and one of their other taillights (can't
>> remember the name), and Lezyne headlight (~1200 lumens).  Very bright and
>> visible in full daylight.
>>
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>


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Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Joe S]

I've been hit twice by cars in the last 10 years. After the second one put
me in the hospital I started riding with Carhartt Force Class 3 Hi-vis
shirts. I have both long and short sleeve versions. Not very stylish, but I
haven't had a close call since using them. I realize that could be more
luck than anything else, but I'm sticking with them. Lighter and more
comfortable than wearing a vest. I'm not a cycling jersey type of rider
anyway.

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 2:46 PM PaulS  wrote:

> Some of the responses above seem to reference dark/night-time riding.  I
> thought the question was regarding daylight hours.
>
> For me, from what I've observed both on the bike and driving, is that
> cyclists' apparel does not do anything during daylight hours.  Light,
> reflective, dark, orange, etc.---once the cyclist rides under the shadow of
> a tree, building, etc., they "disappear".  Reflective gear doesn't work,
> since half the cars have their lights off and there is too much ambient
> light.  In my opinion, a light emitting source is needed.
>
> Bright rear AND front lights are a must.  BLINKING mode, not constant on,
> got my attention the most.  Maybe even two lights.  Don't get a minimalist
> Knog or the likes. I can barely see those at night time, let alone during
> the day.  I use PDW Radbot and one of their other taillights (can't
> remember the name), and Lezyne headlight (~1200 lumens).  Very bright and
> visible in full daylight.
>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[David Bivins]

I thank you for your consideration for others, Eric. In NYC, most bike
lights that I see are mounted on temporary mounts (because you have to take
them off so they don't get stolen), and in my experience driving all over
the country, many, many motorists do not have their headlights focused
properly.

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 8:20 PM 'Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch <
rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com> wrote:

> A properly designed light, like an Edelux, has a “cutoff” beam like the
> one on your car or truck. The light is focused downward on the road, where
> it needs to be.
>
> “Blinding” lights tend to have a comical pattern like a flashlight. The
> light shines up and down equally, creating a hazard for oncoming bikes
> (and, sometimes) vehicles.
>
> I use only focused lights on my randonneuring bikes. In addition to being
> more respectful of others, they’re more efficient because you’re not
> expending effort to light up the sky.
>
> –Eric N
>
>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

['Eric Norris' via RBW Owners Bunch]

A properly designed light, like an Edelux, has a “cutoff” beam like the one on 
your car or truck. The light is focused downward on the road, where it needs to 
be. 

“Blinding” lights tend to have a comical pattern like a flashlight. The light 
shines up and down equally, creating a hazard for oncoming bikes (and, 
sometimes) vehicles. 

I use only focused lights on my randonneuring bikes. In addition to being more 
respectful of others, they’re more efficient because you’re not expending 
effort to light up the sky. 

–Eric N


> On Sep 27, 2019, at 3:55 PM, David Bivins  wrote:
> 
> 
> Unless you're in the country without street lights, Why would someone ride 
> with a super-high lumens headlight? I argued this with a fellow cyclist 
> friend who was bragging that his headlight is "blinding." To what purpose?! 
> If you must, point it angled downward so you can see potholes or the road. I 
> used to come up over the Manhattan Bridge and get temporarily 
> blinded--literally--by cyclists with insane front lights. And it goes without 
> saying that if you're in a protected bike lane (like on the Manhattan Bridge) 
> you can at least temporarily turn it off. I really don't get it. 
> Even in a car I have trouble with other vehicles with the insanely bright LED 
> headlights. They effectively wash out my entire rear-view mirror because the 
> contrast ratio between them and the rest of the scene behind me is 100:1.
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:29 PM Jack K  wrote:
>> Somewhere in the cycling archive that used to be my garage I have a new mesh 
>> safety vest I ordered, but never used, that I'd be happy to pass on to 
>> someone who can use it for the cost of shipping. I ordered this hi-vis 
>> one-size-fits-most safety vest several years ago from Nashbar, but 
>> discovered when it arrived that I'm smaller than the one size it mostly 
>> fits. Still in it's package, but I'd have to dig around for it. 
>> "Construction worker style" and pretty bulky over a cycling jersey on my 
>> 5'7" frame, but if you're bigger or riding in street clothes or want maximum 
>> real estate devoted to retina searing safety yellow then this may work 
>> better for you than it did for me.
>> 
>> Someone mentioned the reflective safety triangles as a "game changer" and 
>> I'll second that! The common Aardvark brand one could use a bit more velcro 
>> strappage to keep it from flopping around, but is extremely visible. This 
>> thing: 
>> https://www.nashbar.com/aardvark-reflective-triangle-yield-symbol-7x7-with-velcro-strap-yeild-symbol/p435349
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> 
>> -Jack
>> Raleigh, NC
>> 
>> 
>>> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 4:40:53 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> You can get mesh safety vests sold for cyclists, runners, etc. They don't 
>>> weigh anything and they comes in all sorts of sized to wear over anything. 
>> 
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> 
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Re: [RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[David Bivins]

Unless you're in the country without street lights, Why would someone ride
with a super-high lumens headlight? I argued this with a fellow cyclist
friend who was bragging that his headlight is "blinding." To what purpose?!
If you must, point it angled downward so you can see potholes or the road.
I used to come up over the Manhattan Bridge and get temporarily
blinded--literally--by cyclists with insane front lights. And it goes
without saying that if you're in a protected bike lane (like on the
Manhattan Bridge) you can at least temporarily turn it off. I really don't
get it.
Even in a car I have trouble with other vehicles with the insanely bright
LED headlights. They effectively wash out my entire rear-view mirror
because the contrast ratio between them and the rest of the scene behind me
is 100:1.

On Fri, Sep 27, 2019 at 6:29 PM Jack K  wrote:

> Somewhere in the cycling archive that used to be my garage I have a new
> mesh safety vest I ordered, but never used, that I'd be happy to pass on to
> someone who can use it for the cost of shipping. I ordered this hi-vis
> one-size-fits-most safety vest several years ago from Nashbar, but
> discovered when it arrived that I'm smaller than the one size it mostly
> fits. Still in it's package, but I'd have to dig around for it.
> "Construction worker style" and pretty bulky over a cycling jersey on my
> 5'7" frame, but if you're bigger or riding in street clothes or want
> maximum real estate devoted to retina searing safety yellow then this may
> work better for you than it did for me.
>
> Someone mentioned the reflective safety triangles as a "game changer" and
> I'll second that! The common Aardvark brand one could use a bit more velcro
> strappage to keep it from flopping around, but is extremely visible. This
> thing:
> https://www.nashbar.com/aardvark-reflective-triangle-yield-symbol-7x7-with-velcro-strap-yeild-symbol/p435349
>
> Cheers,
>
> -Jack
> Raleigh, NC
>
>
> On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 4:40:53 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> You can get mesh safety vests sold for cyclists, runners, etc. They don't
>> weigh anything and they comes in all sorts of sized to wear over anything.
>>
> --
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> 
> .
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Jack K]

Somewhere in the cycling archive that used to be my garage I have a new 
mesh safety vest I ordered, but never used, that I'd be happy to pass on to 
someone who can use it for the cost of shipping. I ordered this hi-vis 
one-size-fits-most safety vest several years ago from Nashbar, but 
discovered when it arrived that I'm smaller than the one size it mostly 
fits. Still in it's package, but I'd have to dig around for it. 
"Construction worker style" and pretty bulky over a cycling jersey on my 
5'7" frame, but if you're bigger or riding in street clothes or want 
maximum real estate devoted to retina searing safety yellow then this may 
work better for you than it did for me.

Someone mentioned the reflective safety triangles as a "game changer" and 
I'll second that! The common Aardvark brand one could use a bit more velcro 
strappage to keep it from flopping around, but is extremely visible. This 
thing: 
https://www.nashbar.com/aardvark-reflective-triangle-yield-symbol-7x7-with-velcro-strap-yeild-symbol/p435349

Cheers,

-Jack
Raleigh, NC


On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 4:40:53 PM UTC-4, Garth wrote:
>
>
>
> You can get mesh safety vests sold for cyclists, runners, etc. They don't 
> weigh anything and they comes in all sorts of sized to wear over anything. 
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

['Dave Small' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Hi Neil,

I wear the orange version of this shirt 
.
 
 It's the brightest shirt I've ever seen (brighter live than in the 
picture), lightweight, and inexpensive.  It nearly glows.  Available with 
long sleeves, too.  

Dave

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Jim M.]

Nott mentioned in this thread yet (but I think I saw a previous discussion, 
maybe on iBoB) is the pool noodle:
[image: Image result for pool tube as bike safety]

https://www.sfgate.com/travel/resources/transit/article/pool-noodle-bicycle-safety-protected-lane-bike-13923482.php#

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Garth]

You can get mesh safety vests sold for cyclists, runners, etc. They don't 
weigh anything and they comes in all sorts of sized to wear over anything. 

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Steve Butcher]

My helmet is HiVis Yellow.  Also, I wear a mesh Hi Vis Yellow vest with 
some reflective bits attached.  My bike has reflectivee and blaze orange 
triangles front and back.  I also use a front flaashing light and a rear 
blinking red light for subdued lighting in the morning or evening.  One of 
my rear reflecttive ttriangles  attaches to my rear rack and extends out 
about 18 inches.  It is spring loaded bounces around quite a bit so is 
attention getting.  Hope this information helps.

On Friday, September 27, 2019 at 1:09:34 PM UTC-5, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Over the last few weeks I've had two close calls with automobiles during 
> my morning commute that really seem to come down to 'I didn't see you'.
>
> I currently have a dyno hub with full-time lights front and rear, and try 
> and ride predictably, but seems like I need to up my visibility game. I'm 
> thinking a very bright and loud reflective vest. Needs to be pretty light 
> weight though, maybe even a mesh.
>
> Any suggestions from the group mind on either vests you have been happy 
> with, or other tips n tricks for daytime visibility?
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Grady Wright]

I saw this vest at a Carhartt store and it seemed very bright and 
reflective. they run large for wearing over clothing so may want to size 
down.

https://www.carhartt.com/products/high-visibility/High-Visibility-Class-2-Vest-100501


On Friday, 27 September 2019 12:09:34 UTC-6, Neil Doran wrote:
>
> Over the last few weeks I've had two close calls with automobiles during 
> my morning commute that really seem to come down to 'I didn't see you'.
>
> I currently have a dyno hub with full-time lights front and rear, and try 
> and ride predictably, but seems like I need to up my visibility game. I'm 
> thinking a very bright and loud reflective vest. Needs to be pretty light 
> weight though, maybe even a mesh.
>
> Any suggestions from the group mind on either vests you have been happy 
> with, or other tips n tricks for daytime visibility?
>

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[Neil Doran]

Good stuff here, per the usual. Indeed, I am inquiring generally about 
daylight conditions, but fall is here, and winter not far behind!

Gotta say I totally forgot about the yellow ankle band! I have two of the 
high quality units that do indeed stick out like a flag. I've used them 
during winter commuting and on long rides where I am in and out of tree 
shadow, I think the circular motion of something bright yellow must help 
with visibility.

I also have suffered behind fellow riders at night that are running 
NASA-grade blinky lights. My current setup is the Riv-approved Secula that 
mounts on the seat stay. Only one mode (steady on) and one brightness (not 
that bright). I've become so fond of the dyno setup with 'always on' lights 
and never a thought to charge or batteries.

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[RBW] Re: ideas for daytime visibility: vests and whatnot

[PaulS]

Some of the responses above seem to reference dark/night-time riding.  I 
thought the question was regarding daylight hours.

For me, from what I've observed both on the bike and driving, is that 
cyclists' apparel does not do anything during daylight hours.  Light, 
reflective, dark, orange, etc.---once the cyclist rides under the shadow of 
a tree, building, etc., they "disappear".  Reflective gear doesn't work, 
since half the cars have their lights off and there is too much ambient 
light.  In my opinion, a light emitting source is needed.

Bright rear AND front lights are a must.  BLINKING mode, not constant on, 
got my attention the most.  Maybe even two lights.  Don't get a minimalist 
Knog or the likes. I can barely see those at night time, let alone during 
the day.  I use PDW Radbot and one of their other taillights (can't 
remember the name), and Lezyne headlight (~1200 lumens).  Very bright and 
visible in full daylight.

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