Re: [RBW] Re: Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Steven Sweedler]

After riding the  Divide with 4 Panniers, a handlebar bag ( all Ortlieb)
 and a Little Joe saddle bag, arriving a few minutes earlier  on a 60 m.
day would not be a worthy reason to buy a new set of bags that were much
less convenient for access. For me easy access is a huge plus..Though I
pushed my bike up many hills,  the panniers were not a huge impediment. Nor
was I watching the clock.  Steve
Plymouth, NH


On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 6:57 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Patrick: you have far more off road loaded riding experience than I, but
> even I have lost (for good!) a rear pannier by squeezing through too narrow
> an opening.
>
> On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Deacon Patrick 
> wrote:
>
>> Maybe the fact that I'm ogrish with monkey arms makes a difference, but
>> I've not ever had an issue bikepacking with my panniers and LCG. I have had
>> challenges with a moron with vertigo and a fully loaded bike trying to
>> balance on steep skree trails traversing at insane grades up insane slopes.
>> But my panniers were never in the way.
>>
>> Other arguments I've heard for frame bags: 1) center of gravity and
>> maneuverability on technical trails. Having bikepacked trails I've also
>> ridden without a load, this is bunk -- different handling and speeds
>> required, but still a non-issue; 2) ease of getting through tight brush and
>> bracken. Nah. If I can fit, either on the bike or off, my panniers can fit.
>>
>> To me it's just a lot of reason to have gear that is frustrating to use
>> because it carries so little and is difficult to access. Panniers and
>> saddle bags and read racks for me. Grin.
>>
>> With abandon,
>> Patrick
>>
>>
>> On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 3:52:34 PM UTC-6, Will Ashe wrote:
>>>
>>> I came across this article today, and while it is not totally
>>> scientific, it is interesting.
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-panniers-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/
>>>
>>> Thoughts?
>>>
>>> Will Ashe
>>>
>>> --
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>
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
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-- 
Steven Sweedler
Plymouth, New Hampshire

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Re: [RBW] Re: Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Robert Keal]

DP,

I think the claimed handling benefits for a bikepacking setup generally are
only benefits for those who want to ride aggressively on an off-road tour.
My bikes definitely handle more naturally and with less forethought
required when I'm using a basket/seat bag/frame bag setup, but the point of
bike camping for me isn't really to "shred the gnar" so much as to spend
time in the woods in the company of friends (or myself), so these handling
"benefits" don't matter much to me.

My experience with an intense hike-a-bike was with Ortlieb Sport Packer
Plus panniers mounted to a rear rack. It was about 3-4 hours total, and we
must have lifted our bikes up and over 20 fallen trees all while gaining
and losing elevation at a dizzying pace--in 100 degree heat. The panniers
caused me to have to push from an awkward angle. For the first half hour,
it didn't matter. After two or three, though, the awkward position caused a
lot of strain in several areas of my body. Front panniers may have been
easier in some ways, but they present different issues. Namely, each log of
any size requires one to lift or otherwise support the front wheel and bags
up and over, whereas rear panniers allow one to employ the ol' drag method.
:)

Ultimately, I think a front and rear saddlebag with full frame bag setup
might work best for me for off-road touring (and a rear saddlebag with
front panniers for road tours), but I'm going to give the seat bag at least
one more go before I rule it out.

Bob K. in Baltimore
-- 
Bob
443 278 4265
http://www.smallsur.com

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Re: [RBW] Re: Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Patrick Moore]

Patrick: you have far more off road loaded riding experience than I, but
even I have lost (for good!) a rear pannier by squeezing through too narrow
an opening.

On Fri, Apr 28, 2017 at 4:55 PM, Deacon Patrick  wrote:

> Maybe the fact that I'm ogrish with monkey arms makes a difference, but
> I've not ever had an issue bikepacking with my panniers and LCG. I have had
> challenges with a moron with vertigo and a fully loaded bike trying to
> balance on steep skree trails traversing at insane grades up insane slopes.
> But my panniers were never in the way.
>
> Other arguments I've heard for frame bags: 1) center of gravity and
> maneuverability on technical trails. Having bikepacked trails I've also
> ridden without a load, this is bunk -- different handling and speeds
> required, but still a non-issue; 2) ease of getting through tight brush and
> bracken. Nah. If I can fit, either on the bike or off, my panniers can fit.
>
> To me it's just a lot of reason to have gear that is frustrating to use
> because it carries so little and is difficult to access. Panniers and
> saddle bags and read racks for me. Grin.
>
> With abandon,
> Patrick
>
>
> On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 3:52:34 PM UTC-6, Will Ashe wrote:
>>
>> I came across this article today, and while it is not totally scientific,
>> it is interesting.
>>
>> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-pannier
>> s-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Will Ashe
>>
>> --
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>



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and writing services, until Demand equals Supply! And there's more! 10%
kickback for any referral resulting in fully paid, list-price contract. And
still more!  I am offering services in trade for a road bike, or frame and
parts, that are period compatible with my AM hub, circa 1937 to 1961. See
my website for what I do and what I charge; email for details.*

Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews.
By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching.
Other professional writing services.
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Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique,  Vereinigte Staaten
**
**

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[RBW] Re: Panniers vs Bikepacking bags

[Deacon Patrick]

Maybe the fact that I'm ogrish with monkey arms makes a difference, but 
I've not ever had an issue bikepacking with my panniers and LCG. I have had 
challenges with a moron with vertigo and a fully loaded bike trying to 
balance on steep skree trails traversing at insane grades up insane slopes. 
But my panniers were never in the way.

Other arguments I've heard for frame bags: 1) center of gravity and 
maneuverability on technical trails. Having bikepacked trails I've also 
ridden without a load, this is bunk -- different handling and speeds 
required, but still a non-issue; 2) ease of getting through tight brush and 
bracken. Nah. If I can fit, either on the bike or off, my panniers can fit.

To me it's just a lot of reason to have gear that is frustrating to use 
because it carries so little and is difficult to access. Panniers and 
saddle bags and read racks for me. Grin.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Friday, April 28, 2017 at 3:52:34 PM UTC-6, Will Ashe wrote:
>
> I came across this article today, and while it is not totally scientific, 
> it is interesting. 
>
>
> http://www.cyclingabout.com/speed-difference-between-panniers-bikepacking-bags-aerodynamic-testing-results/
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Will Ashe
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[RJM]

I have the Sackville TourSacks and actually prefer that they are attached 
together. I keep my sleeping bag and a small bag of tools on the top of the 
rack and various stuff in the Sacks. When I get to the site I pitch my tent 
which traveled in the front of the bike and untie the sleeping bag, grab 
off the TourSacks and everything goes into the tent; having them connected 
just makes it easier and I don't have to have the bags roped to the rack. 
 
I find the opening of the TourSacks to be ideal for me...I just stuff stuff 
into them and close the flap. If I have anything near the top that looks 
like it could pop out I buckle the straps. It works quite well for me. To 
keep stuff dry I keep clothing and other stuff in individual drybags; the 
kind that you can buy at REI or any competent camping store. I haven't had 
a problem with water with the TourSacks using this method and they have 
held up really well. I'm not a fan of plastic that can break on bags, which 
is why I prefer the leather and canvas stuff. 
 
And honestly, I find the Sackville stuff to be better looking than Ortliebs 
or even Arkels and I hate to say it, that makes a difference to me. 
On Friday, August 15, 2014 3:15:03 PM UTC-5, Deacon Patrick wrote:

 I have and love the Sackville TourSacks, though the one thing that would 
 make me love them more is if they attached individually to each side so I 
 didn't have to remove my Large SaddleSack. I generally bike pack light and 
 just use the SaddleSack and front TrunkSack, but if I need to carry more 
 add the TourSacks. I've done sections (200+ miles) of the Gread Divide MTB 
 trail (road, really), and countless shorter trips with them in dry, rain, 
 sleet, hail, and snow. I've never had a wet issue with them, and I don't 
 use inner dry bags. 

 All that said, if I used them often, or were buying knowing what I know 
 now, I'd give the Carsick a shot and see what I thought.

 With abandon,
 Patrick

 On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:45:56 AM UTC-6, Richard Lawrence wrote: 

 Hi everyone,

 I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set 
 from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam.

 I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a 
 few people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
 if anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
 comparison.  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable 
 individually, and have exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel 
 bottle, but this is just an in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of 
 panniers before and don't know if those are real advantages, or if there 
 are other things I should be considering.

 I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag for 
 daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially 
 curious about: 
   - relative volume and packability
   - permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever)

 Any thoughts?

 (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to 
 offload, let me know!)

 Thanks!

 Best,
 Richard



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[RBW] Re: Panniers: Carsick vs. Sackville opinions?

[Deacon Patrick]

I have and love the Sackville TourSacks, though the one thing that would 
make me love them more is if they attached individually to each side so I 
didn't have to remove my Large SaddleSack. I generally bike pack light and 
just use the SaddleSack and front TrunkSack, but if I need to carry more 
add the TourSacks. I've done sections (200+ miles) of the Gread Divide MTB 
trail (road, really), and countless shorter trips with them in dry, rain, 
sleet, hail, and snow. I've never had a wet issue with them, and I don't 
use inner dry bags.

All that said, if I used them often, or were buying knowing what I know 
now, I'd give the Carsick a shot and see what I thought.

With abandon,
Patrick

On Thursday, August 14, 2014 8:45:56 AM UTC-6, Richard Lawrence wrote:

 Hi everyone,

 I am looking for a set of panniers, and I've been considering both a set 
 from Carsick Designs and the Sackville TourSacks for my new-to-me Sam.

 I've seen a few people on the list recommend the Carsick panniers, and a 
 few people express mild dissatisfaction with the TourSacks.  I am wondering 
 if anyone here has experience with both and can offer an informed 
 comparison.  I like that the Carsick panniers are roll-top, usable 
 individually, and have exterior pockets for U-lock/water bottle/fuel 
 bottle, but this is just an in-theory preference: I have not owned a set of 
 panniers before and don't know if those are real advantages, or if there 
 are other things I should be considering.

 I mostly plan to use them for camping and touring; I use a saddle bag for 
 daily commuting, though I could see that changing, too.  I am especially 
 curious about: 
   - relative volume and packability
   - permeability to the elements (rain, dust, whatever)

 Any thoughts?

 (Also, if anyone has a used pair of either that they're looking to 
 offload, let me know!)

 Thanks!

 Best,
 Richard


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[RBW] Re: panniers

[ekoral]

swift! swift! swift!

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 6:01:43 AM UTC-7, doc wrote:

 Swift Short Stacks: 
 http://gspiess.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/swift-and-x-bike-015.jpg

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:50:05 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Don]

Kelly,
I could see from Andy's picture what his problem was. It is not too clear 
to me from your pic how you solved it. Did you just reposition the pannier 
a little forward on the rack. Bottom line, and this is important to me, do 
the Arkel panniers (especially the largest one) fit on a large rear Nitto 
rack? After all of the discussion I am leaning toward the Arkel but I want 
to make sure that they will fit before I go through the hassle of ording 
them only to find out they don't fit. Thanks

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:35:09 PM UTC-4, Kelly wrote:

 Andy,

 Try it this way.  May save some on and off headaches. 

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8075416632/in/photostream

 Kelly


 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:12:34 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:

 With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that 
 involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks 
 for the counter experience. 

 I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

 --Andy


 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:46:06 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the 
 pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

 Kelly

 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt 
 wrote:

 I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

 I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

 The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the 
 cross piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the 
 Arkel hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was 
 always in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the 
 pannier from hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp 
 to 
 engage holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into 
 place, but I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

 Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this 
 afternoon and see if I can get it to go.

 --Andy  

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in 
 the center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm 
 talking about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing 
 you are noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[tdusky]

I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh Step 
Panniers.
They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). I 
built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
and his only complaint was too much storage room.
Check out the photo on flickr:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

Tom Dusky

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

Andy,

The attachments are adjustable.  You loosen a set screw and just move them 
to the positions you need for the rack you are using.   Yes they fit the 
rack with easy on and off.   

Kelly

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:32:14 AM UTC-5, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky


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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Don]

Tom,
I would like to see all the pics you have especially the 
hardware/attachment setup you used. 
Thanks,
Don

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:32:14 AM UTC-4, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky


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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[PATRICK MOORE]

I too would like to see how you mount the home-mades.

As I've said before, the most practical grocery panniers I've used were two
pairs I made from $4-on-sale kitchen trash cans from Target. It's just that
I felt so self conscious riding around with *trashcans* hooked to my bike.
I've still got a pair if anyone cares to come by and pick them up, (My next
door neighbor has the other permanently attached to the cheap Schwinn World
Traveller grocery bike I sold him for $50, and uses them regularly.)

(My trashcanpanniers were held together as a pair in the manner of Dutch
panniers with nylon webbing and to mount you just slung them over the rack
and used a toe strap to hold them in place fore-and-aft.)

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 8:45 AM, Don donl...@bellsouth.net wrote:

 Tom,
 I would like to see all the pics you have especially the
 hardware/attachment setup you used.
 Thanks,
 Don


 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:32:14 AM UTC-4, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day).
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/**37678222@N02/8076880501/in/**
 photostream/lightbox/http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky

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-
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For professional resumes, contact Patrick Moore, ACRW
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[RBW] Re: panniers

[IanA]

Those are great!  For extended touring, the plastic will likely start to 
break. Easy enough to move the hardware on to new ones, I guess. 

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 7:32:14 AM UTC-6, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky


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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

I moved the attachment hook (as in your pic). Smooth sailing. Thanks again, 
Kelly. 

On one of my flickr pics (linked above) a buddy suggested swapping the 
hooks so the cams swing open the opposite way. I may try it at a later date 
when I'm feeling tinker-y. 

On the trach-can-pannier front... bucket panniers 
http://www.instructables.com/id/Building-Better-Bucket-Panniers/are 
a common sight around Portland, OR. Only time I've used one... it was 
someone else's and I used it as a stool to sit on in camp. I imagine it 
could also be used to stand on to pick fruit too high to reach otherwise. 

-- A

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:58:21 AM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy,

 The attachments are adjustable.  You loosen a set screw and just move them 
 to the positions you need for the rack you are using.   Yes they fit the 
 rack with easy on and off.   

 Kelly

 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:32:14 AM UTC-5, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[dougP]

You gotta appreciate someone who's not hung up on bag matching.  Saw a guy 
a couple of years back who was using a 5 gallon plastic bucket strapped to 
the rack top.  He pointed out that in addition to being water-proof, it 
doubles as a camp stool.  

dougP

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 6:32:14 AM UTC-7, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky


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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Anne Paulson]

When I was touring this summer with Adventure Cycling, part of the
group gear was three plastic dishpans we used for washing dishes. At
first they seemed like a nuisance, but when I volunteered to carry
them, the utility became obvious. I carried them, neatly nested, face
up on my front rack, held on by a cargo net. That space ended up being
useful for carrying things that needed not to be squashed, like a loaf
of bread, an apple pie or two bags of local cherries. And then around
the edges I could shove extra clothes that I took off during the day
or other things I wanted handy.

So I had my matching Ortlieb handlebar bag and panniers, and then dishpans.

I may carry a dishpan next time I tour. It was very useful both on the
road and in camp.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 9:34 AM, dougP dougpn...@cox.net wrote:
 You gotta appreciate someone who's not hung up on bag matching.  Saw a guy a
 couple of years back who was using a 5 gallon plastic bucket strapped to the
 rack top.  He pointed out that in addition to being water-proof, it doubles
 as a camp stool.

 dougP


-- 
-- Anne Paulson

My hovercraft is full of eels

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RE: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I have toured with Arkel GT-54s (their biggest pannier) on a Nitto rear rack.  
It requires a little finagling, but it fits, and once on is both completely 
stable and easy to remove.  I wouldn't worry; they'll fit.  BTW, I have the Big 
Rear Rack with the diagonal struts in the corners right under the rack top, 
which is the only one that people have reported any issues with.  Still fits.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Don
Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:34 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

Kelly,
I could see from Andy's picture what his problem was. It is not too clear to me 
from your pic how you solved it. Did you just reposition the pannier a little 
forward on the rack. Bottom line, and this is important to me, do the Arkel 
panniers (especially the largest one) fit on a large rear Nitto rack? After all 
of the discussion I am leaning toward the Arkel but I want to make sure that 
they will fit before I go through the hassle of ording them only to find out 
they don't fit. Thanks

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 7:35:09 PM UTC-4, Kelly wrote:
Andy,

Try it this way.  May save some on and off headaches.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8075416632/in/photostream

Kelly


On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:12:34 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:
With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that 
involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks for 
the counter experience.

I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

--Andy


On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:46:06 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:
If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the pannier 
that fits, the rack and them together.

Kelly

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:
I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit.

I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different?

The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross piece 
is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel hooks loose 
and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always in the way that 
prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from hanging down along 
the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage holding the pannier out 
(like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but I couldn't position the 
clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle.

Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this afternoon and 
see if I can get it to go.

--Andy

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:
Andy

They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in the center 
of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm talking about the 
large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing you are noting?

Kelly
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To ensure compliance with Treasury Department regulations, we advise you that, 
unless otherwise expressly indicated, any federal tax advice contained in this 
message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the 
purpose of (i) avoiding tax-related penalties under the Internal Revenue Code 
or applicable state or local tax law provisions or (ii) promoting, marketing or 
recommending to another party any tax-related matters addressed herein.



This email (and any attachments thereto) is intended only for use by the 
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confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient of this email, 
you are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this 
email (and any attachments thereto) is strictly prohibited. If you receive this 
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Further information about the firm, a list of the Partners and their 
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[RBW] Re: panniers

[tdusky]

Closeups added
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8078174442/in/photostream/

Tom

On Thursday, October 11, 2012 10:45:05 AM UTC-4, Don wrote:

 Tom,
 I would like to see all the pics you have especially the 
 hardware/attachment setup you used. 
 Thanks,
 Don

 On Thursday, October 11, 2012 9:32:14 AM UTC-4, tdusky wrote:

 I just did the ride with Kelly and company and I really liked my Fresh 
 Step Panniers.
 They cost me $5 each in hardware and some looking on tuesday (trash day). 
 I built them so they set back on my short Blackburn rack so I had heel 
 clearance. Very easy access and when unloading you can use the other one as 
 a shelf to place items. Rear water bottle mounts were also a bonus. Easy 
 access and totally water tight. I saw another rider on the trail with these 
 and his only complaint was too much storage room.
 Check out the photo on flickr:

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/37678222@N02/8076880501/in/photostream/lightbox/
 Let me know if anyone wants to see closeups of the hardware mounts.

 Tom Dusky



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Scot Brooks]

I'll add my +1 to the Swift Industries panniers. They're exquisitely made, and 
Martina really takes pride in her work and her involvement with the touring 
community. They're on my wish list for that reason, and also because I know 4 
everyday commuters/touring cyclists who swear by her stuff.

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[doc]

Swift Short Stacks: 
http://gspiess.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/swift-and-x-bike-015.jpg

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:50:05 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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RE: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

+1, or a variation, the Swift Mini Short Stacks, which are not really Mini, but 
perfectly sized for short tours and commuting.  Here, on the Mystery Bike:  
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37542512@N04/8023681452/  They also have a very 
clever strap setup that enables the rider to dramatically reduce the size of 
the panniers when they're empty, which can be very useful in tight spaces.  And 
MUSA.

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of doc
Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 9:02 AM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

Swift Short Stacks: 
http://gspiess.files.wordpress.com/2011/04/swift-and-x-bike-015.jpg

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 1:50:05 PM UTC-4, Don wrote:
OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of lighting I 
now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very inexpensive 
Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. These would be for 
several day trips for more extended open road touring. I have most of my 
camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have front and rear 
Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful including: 
new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. Thanks
--
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message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the 
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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Ron Mc]

throwing these up again, I like Carsick Designs panniers.  They are lined 
and waterproof, easy on/off in/out and I think they look sharp.  
http://carsickdesigns.com/PRODUCTS/Pages/PANNIERS.html

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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RE: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I had no trouble fitting my Arkels on a Big Back Rack with the trusses.  It's 
tight, but absolutely doable (the mounting clips are movable, which makes it 
work).

From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy Smitty Schmidt
Sent: Tuesday, October 09, 2012 8:54 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

one point about Arkel... they're great panniers and their attachment system is 
rock solid but takes some real estate to properly clamp onto the rack rails. I 
mention this because the OP mentioned Nitto racks. My late model (w/ the corner 
truss reinforcements) Big Back Rack (size large) is NOT compatible with the 
Arkel mounting system because of the relative position of the trusses and cross 
pieces (the ones that connect L-R looking at the rack from above). The truss/ 
cross piece alignment is different on my wife's Big Back Rack (size small) and 
the Arkel's fit fine.

--Andy


On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:50:05 AM UTC-7, Don wrote:
OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of lighting I 
now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a very inexpensive 
Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. These would be for 
several day trips for more extended open road touring. I have most of my 
camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have front and rear 
Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful including: 
new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. Thanks
--
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message was not intended or written to be used, and cannot be used, for the 
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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross 
piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel 
hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always 
in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from 
hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage 
holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but 
I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this afternoon 
and see if I can get it to go.

--Andy  

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in the 
 center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm talking 
 about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing you are 
 noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the 
pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

Kelly

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:

 I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

 I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

 The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross 
 piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel 
 hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always 
 in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from 
 hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage 
 holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but 
 I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

 Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this afternoon 
 and see if I can get it to go.

 --Andy  

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in the 
 center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm talking 
 about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing you are 
 noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that 
involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks 
for the counter experience. 

I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... 
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

--Andy


On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:46:06 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the 
 pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

 Kelly

 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:

 I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

 I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

 The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross 
 piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel 
 hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always 
 in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from 
 hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage 
 holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but 
 I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

 Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this afternoon 
 and see if I can get it to go.

 --Andy  

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in the 
 center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm talking 
 about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing you are 
 noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

Andy,

Try it this way.  May save some on and off headaches. 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8075416632/in/photostream

Kelly


On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:12:34 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:

 With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that 
 involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks 
 for the counter experience. 

 I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

 --Andy


 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:46:06 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the 
 pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

 Kelly

 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt 
 wrote:

 I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

 I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

 The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the cross 
 piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the Arkel 
 hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was always 
 in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the pannier from 
 hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp to engage 
 holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into place, but 
 I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

 Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this 
 afternoon and see if I can get it to go.

 --Andy  

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in 
 the center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm 
 talking about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing 
 you are noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

How I failed to think to move the thingy forward of the triangle is beyond 
me. Now that I see the pic, it seems the obvious and most simple solution. 
Thanks!

I briefly (months ago when I got the panniers) contemplated cutting the 
triangle off. Glad I didn't do it. 

I assume stability is fine with the narrower grab? 


 

On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 4:35:09 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy,

 Try it this way.  May save some on and off headaches. 

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8075416632/in/photostream

 Kelly


 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 3:12:34 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt wrote:

 With the rack off and the pannier empty, I got it to work. Tight fit that 
 involved some monkeying to get it on but it's a solid attachment. Thanks 
 for the counter experience. 

 I took a few pics in case anyone's wondering what the issue was... 
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/15966859@N07/8074911181/

 --Andy


 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 12:46:06 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 If photos will help let me know and I'll take some of the back of the 
 pannier that fits, the rack and them together. 

 Kelly

 On Wednesday, October 10, 2012 2:35:11 PM UTC-5, Andy Smitty Schmidt 
 wrote:

 I fiddled with them and was never able to get them to fit. 

 I wonder if our racks or panniers are somehow different? 

 The front hook/clamp fits fine in the triangle but on the rear the 
 cross piece is smack in the middle of the triangle. Even when I had the 
 Arkel hooks loose and could micro-adjust as I installed it, something was 
 always in the way that prevented the hook/clamp from engaging and the 
 pannier from hanging down along the rack. I even tried getting the clamp 
 to 
 engage holding the pannier out (like a wing) then lowering the bag into 
 place, but I couldn't position the clamp mechanism to fit in the triangle. 

 Hearing that someone has made it work... I'll try it again this 
 afternoon and see if I can get it to go.

 --Andy  

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 6:29:47 PM UTC-7, Kelly wrote:

 Andy

 They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in 
 the center of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm 
 talking about the large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing 
 you are noting?

 Kelly



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

Doesn't effect stability at all.   I've ridden this on some really rough roads 
no problem.

Kelly

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

Dawn and I use Arkel expedition series panniers.   We used them for years 
and in extensive rains without getting anything wet.  I carry a down 
sleeping bag so keeping dry is important.   The many pockets and vertical 
sleeping pad carrier are fantastic.
I love the Ortlibs as well I just don't like the top load stuff it in 
thing.   Arkel has spoiled me.  

Here is my Bombadil in Alaska
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7688451664/in/set-72157630829044946

Here is my Wife's bike last week
http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8064303695/in/set-72157631715248107/lightbox/

Arkel also makes rolltop water proof bags.Either way though Ortlieb or 
Arkel I don't think you could go wrong with either. 

Kelly

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Don]

Great pics. Thanks

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 2:28:14 PM UTC-4, Kelly wrote:

 Dawn and I use Arkel expedition series panniers.   We used them for years 
 and in extensive rains without getting anything wet.  I carry a down 
 sleeping bag so keeping dry is important.   The many pockets and vertical 
 sleeping pad carrier are fantastic.
 I love the Ortlibs as well I just don't like the top load stuff it in 
 thing.   Arkel has spoiled me.  

 Here is my Bombadil in Alaska
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/7688451664/in/set-72157630829044946

 Here is my Wife's bike last week

 http://www.flickr.com/photos/tksleeper/8064303695/in/set-72157631715248107/lightbox/

 Arkel also makes rolltop water proof bags.Either way though Ortlieb or 
 Arkel I don't think you could go wrong with either. 

 Kelly

 On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks



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[RBW] Re: panniers

[RJM]

Anybody use the Sackville panniers?
 
 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 12:50:05 PM UTC-5, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[dougP]

Others have covered the water resistance issue well  that's an important 
point.  Another thing to study is the mounting  retention hardware.  You 
will likely be taking them off the bike often when on tour, so it has to be 
something quick  easy, yet solid and secure.  Before you buy, ask about 
the availability of replacement hardware.  Lots of this stuff is plastic 
and will break over time and with abuse, even high quality gear.  Carefully 
think thru your gear, clothes, etc. when picking a size. It's real easy 
to just get the biggest bag you can but that makes it easy to drag around a 
lot of stuff you don't use.  OTH, if you're camping in a wet climate, 
cooking, carrying food  water, you want enough room.  
 
Visibility:  I have a big safety triangle attached to my left rear bag, and 
a set of yellow rain covers for all 4 bags.  The Ortleib yellow is a great 
color but I've followed those, and the black rear panel is what you see 
from the back.  
 
dougP

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:50:05 AM UTC-7, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Andy Smitty Schmidt]

one point about Arkel... they're great panniers and their attachment system 
is rock solid but takes some real estate to properly clamp onto the rack 
rails. I mention this because the OP mentioned Nitto racks. My late model 
(w/ the corner truss reinforcements) Big Back Rack (size large) is NOT 
compatible with the Arkel mounting system because of the relative position 
of the trusses and cross pieces (the ones that connect L-R looking at the 
rack from above). The truss/ cross piece alignment is different on my 
wife's Big Back Rack (size small) and the Arkel's fit fine. 

--Andy
 

On Tuesday, October 9, 2012 10:50:05 AM UTC-7, Don wrote:

 OK, having picked your brains quite successfully on the subject of 
 lighting I now turn to the subject of panniers, front and rear. I have a 
 very inexpensive Sunlight top bag and panniers and am looking to upgrade. 
 These would be for several day trips for more extended open road touring. I 
 have most of my camping gear but need to purchase panniers. I have now have 
 front and rear Nitto racks on my Sam H. Any and all advice would be helpful 
 including: new,used, brands, models, cheap, expensive. The while enchilada. 
 Thanks

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Kelly]

Andy

They are adjustable.  I found my artel attaching system fit right in the center 
of the triangle.  One set once its no muss no fuss.   I'm talking about the 
large rear Rivendell rack with the trusses.  Same thing you are noting?

Kelly

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Nicole E.]

I've also read somewhere that there are panniers in the works, but I
can't remember whether or not it was a credible source.  I'm in the
market for panniers and have been waiting for Riv to update their
shop.

I bought a Nigel Smythe country bag and lil loafer, but I realized
that I need much more room for commuting (though I'll probably keep
the duo for fun rambling rides).  On my usual commute I need to carry
a laptop, power cord, the usual personal items, a sandwich, a thermos,
a few books, maybe a collapsible back pillow, and still have
theoretical room for a few groceries on the ride home.  Unfortunately,
I can't carry anything on my back while I ride, so it's all got to get
strapped to the bike somehow.  Right now I'm using a handmade wooden
box, but I'd rather have something classy and canvas with a lid so
that I can leave the contents unattended for a few minutes when I run
into a store (an open box seems to have take me, I'm free written
all over it).

I'm debating between a Nigel Smythe Big Box and the as-of-yet-unseen
panniers, but another consideration is that I don't have an office
(and probably wont for at least another year and a half), and so my
bike ends up being locked up outside all over Berkeley and Oakland
cafes for hours at a time.  That's led me to look for some easily
detachable setup that turns into a messenger bag when I need to unload
the bike, something like these from Basil:

(The Weekender) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/item/145054
(The Messenger) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/catalog/bags-packs/messenger

I'm still hoping for the Rivendell holy grail before I decide to try
out the Basil, though.

- Nicole



On Dec 9, 11:35 am, jandrews_nyc jasonaschwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
 Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe
 two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
 Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
 WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
 Anyone have any ideas?
 Also..still on the prowl for an appropriate Sam Hillborne Green paint
 touch up source...
 Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:16 PM, Nicole E. nicolemea...@gmail.com wrote:
 I've also read somewhere that there are panniers in the works, but I
 can't remember whether or not it was a credible source.  I'm in the
 market for panniers and have been waiting for Riv to update their
 shop.

 I bought a Nigel Smythe country bag and lil loafer, but I realized
 that I need much more room for commuting (though I'll probably keep
 the duo for fun rambling rides).  On my usual commute I need to carry
 a laptop, power cord, the usual personal items, a sandwich, a thermos,
 a few books, maybe a collapsible back pillow, and still have
 theoretical room for a few groceries on the ride home.  Unfortunately,
 I can't carry anything on my back while I ride, so it's all got to get
 strapped to the bike somehow.  Right now I'm using a handmade wooden
 box, but I'd rather have something classy and canvas with a lid so
 that I can leave the contents unattended for a few minutes when I run
 into a store (an open box seems to have take me, I'm free written
 all over it).

 I'm debating between a Nigel Smythe Big Box and the as-of-yet-unseen
 panniers, but another consideration is that I don't have an office
 (and probably wont for at least another year and a half), and so my
 bike ends up being locked up outside all over Berkeley and Oakland
 cafes for hours at a time.  That's led me to look for some easily
 detachable setup that turns into a messenger bag when I need to unload
 the bike, something like these from Basil:

 (The Weekender) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/item/145054
 (The Messenger) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/catalog/bags-packs/messenger

 I'm still hoping for the Rivendell holy grail before I decide to try
 out the Basil, though.

What about trying out a front or rear wald basket with one of these:
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks#product=20-205

they unclip to come right out, looks like the large would be a great
size and the wald baskets LOOK great empty or not.

looks like this in a basket:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556...@n06/4012913670/

-sv

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Nicholas Grieco]

Rivendell News, August 20th 2009
http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/148

  We WILL have panniers and a messenger bag (--maybe on
  that) in the Spring. There are still some mounting details
  to work out for the panniers. The big companies use plastic
  hardware that their in-house industrial designers design,
  then they order millions of them to get the per-piece cost
  down, and that's not in the cards for us. If we can work
  out a dumbed-down version that works 95 percent as well,
  we'll go that way. We're about 75 percent of the way there
  now, but it's not on the front-burner right now.

On Dec 9, 11:35 am, jandrews_nyc jasonaschwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
 Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe
 two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
 Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
 WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
 Anyone have any ideas?
 Also..still on the prowl for an appropriate Sam Hillborne Green paint
 touch up source...
 Thanks!

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Nicole E.]

Actually, the Wald basket/ShopSack combo doesn't look like a bad
idea!  The ShopSack isn't quite as classy as I had in mind (I'm trying
to avoid the professor-hobo look, although I seem to keep replicating
it in spite of myself), but it might end up fitting the bill.  I do
like how neatly the bag fits into the Wald basket, and presumably one
could leave it attached as a lining when it's not needed for use as a
mega-bag.

The only thing, though, is that I'm not sure I'd like to have a basket
strapped to the bike all the time (that's something annoying about
this wooden box I have now), and the zip-tie attachment makes it hard
to remove.

But it's definitely a smart option worth considering!

How are other people commuting (in style or otherwise) these days?


 What about trying out a front or rear wald basket with one of 
 these:http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks#product=20-205

 they unclip to come right out, looks like the large would be a great
 size and the wald baskets LOOK great empty or not.

 looks like this in a 
 basket:http://www.flickr.com/photos/7556...@n06/4012913670/

 -sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:29 PM, Nicole E. nicolemea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually, the Wald basket/ShopSack combo doesn't look like a bad
 idea!  The ShopSack isn't quite as classy as I had in mind (I'm trying
 to avoid the professor-hobo look, although I seem to keep replicating
 it in spite of myself), but it might end up fitting the bill.  I do
 like how neatly the bag fits into the Wald basket, and presumably one
 could leave it attached as a lining when it's not needed for use as a
 mega-bag.

 The only thing, though, is that I'm not sure I'd like to have a basket
 strapped to the bike all the time (that's something annoying about
 this wooden box I have now), and the zip-tie attachment makes it hard
 to remove.

 But it's definitely a smart option worth considering!

 How are other people commuting (in style or otherwise) these days?



Re-openable zipties. They are the way, the truth and the light and I
cannot find a good place to buy more from. The great big ones which
came with my road morph-g pump would be perfect but I need MORE OF
THEM.

any ideas?

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Bill Connell]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:29 PM, Nicole E. nicolemea...@gmail.com wrote:
 Actually, the Wald basket/ShopSack combo doesn't look like a bad
 idea!  The ShopSack isn't quite as classy as I had in mind (I'm trying
 to avoid the professor-hobo look, although I seem to keep replicating
 it in spite of myself), but it might end up fitting the bill.  I do
 like how neatly the bag fits into the Wald basket, and presumably one
 could leave it attached as a lining when it's not needed for use as a
 mega-bag.

 The only thing, though, is that I'm not sure I'd like to have a basket
 strapped to the bike all the time (that's something annoying about
 this wooden box I have now), and the zip-tie attachment makes it hard
 to remove.

 But it's definitely a smart option worth considering!

 How are other people commuting (in style or otherwise) these days?


It's not a cheap option (esp. with the rack requirement), but i think
the new Riv Slickersack looks fantastic. I've been making my own
saddlebags lately as a winter project. The newest one is at the bottom
of this post (click pic for bigger version). Speedblend haters should
probably avoid looking, it's not a subdued bag  :-)
http://wjc.fidean.net/log/2009/12/08/saddlebags/

-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote:


 It's not a cheap option (esp. with the rack requirement), but i think
 the new Riv Slickersack looks fantastic. I've been making my own
 saddlebags lately as a winter project. The newest one is at the bottom
 of this post (click pic for bigger version). Speedblend haters should
 probably avoid looking, it's not a subdued bag  :-)
 http://wjc.fidean.net/log/2009/12/08/saddlebags/

Bill,
 Those look great! I've been doing the same. I've made a keven's bag
copy and a copy of the 2-strap bag that acorn makes. I plan on making
something like the nigel smythe a friend of mine has. It's been a lot
of fun and I've learned  a bunch about what makes sense in a bag.

-sv

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Nicole E.]

Beautiful bags, Bill!

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Bill Connell]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 3:46 PM, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 4:43 PM, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote:


 It's not a cheap option (esp. with the rack requirement), but i think
 the new Riv Slickersack looks fantastic. I've been making my own
 saddlebags lately as a winter project. The newest one is at the bottom
 of this post (click pic for bigger version). Speedblend haters should
 probably avoid looking, it's not a subdued bag  :-)
 http://wjc.fidean.net/log/2009/12/08/saddlebags/

 Bill,
  Those look great! I've been doing the same. I've made a keven's bag
 copy and a copy of the 2-strap bag that acorn makes. I plan on making
 something like the nigel smythe a friend of mine has. It's been a lot
 of fun and I've learned  a bunch about what makes sense in a bag.


Thanks! Once you've made a saddlebag or two, you really appreciate the
amount of work that goes into the Rivendell (and Carradice and Acorn,
etc., etc.) bags. It's not as simple as you think, and there are a lot
of little details that make a big difference in usability.

-- 
Bill Connell
St. Paul, MN

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RE: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

I use a Big Box with the Nitto Quick Release gizmo (on Riv website) on a 
Bombadil commuter.  It's a fantastic combo -- the Big Box is HUGE, and very 
good looking (excellent usable pockets, too).  The Quick Release works 
perfectly and has two added benefits: it drastically minimizes swaying of the 
bag (it's a very firm connection), and it works great as a carry handle for the 
bag when it's off the bike.

Highly recommend it. 

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nicole E.
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 3:17 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch
Subject: [RBW] Re: panniers

I've also read somewhere that there are panniers in the works, but I can't 
remember whether or not it was a credible source.  I'm in the market for 
panniers and have been waiting for Riv to update their shop.

I bought a Nigel Smythe country bag and lil loafer, but I realized that I need 
much more room for commuting (though I'll probably keep the duo for fun 
rambling rides).  On my usual commute I need to carry a laptop, power cord, the 
usual personal items, a sandwich, a thermos, a few books, maybe a collapsible 
back pillow, and still have theoretical room for a few groceries on the ride 
home.  Unfortunately, I can't carry anything on my back while I ride, so it's 
all got to get strapped to the bike somehow.  Right now I'm using a handmade 
wooden box, but I'd rather have something classy and canvas with a lid so that 
I can leave the contents unattended for a few minutes when I run into a store 
(an open box seems to have take me, I'm free written all over it).

I'm debating between a Nigel Smythe Big Box and the as-of-yet-unseen panniers, 
but another consideration is that I don't have an office (and probably wont for 
at least another year and a half), and so my bike ends up being locked up 
outside all over Berkeley and Oakland cafes for hours at a time.  That's led me 
to look for some easily detachable setup that turns into a messenger bag when I 
need to unload the bike, something like these from Basil:

(The Weekender) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/item/145054
(The Messenger) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/catalog/bags-packs/messenger

I'm still hoping for the Rivendell holy grail before I decide to try out the 
Basil, though.

- Nicole



On Dec 9, 11:35 am, jandrews_nyc jasonaschwa...@gmail.com wrote:
 I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
 Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe 
 two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
 Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
 WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
 Anyone have any ideas?
 Also..still on the prowl for an appropriate Sam Hillborne Green paint 
 touch up source...
 Thanks!

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J
thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote:
 I use a Big Box with the Nitto Quick Release gizmo (on Riv website) on a 
 Bombadil commuter.  It's a fantastic combo -- the Big Box is HUGE, and very 
 good looking (excellent usable pockets, too).  The Quick Release works 
 perfectly and has two added benefits: it drastically minimizes swaying of the 
 bag (it's a very firm connection), and it works great as a carry handle for 
 the bag when it's off the bike.

 Highly recommend it.


Please to be  adding pictures. I'd like to see what you're talking about here.

-sv

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RE: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Allingham II, Thomas J]

Seth:

The bike it was on is being repainted (a Bombadil clear powdercoat that didn't 
like the salt air of the Jersey Shore), so I can't post the actual pictures, 
unless I can find an old one.  I'll look tonight. But the Nitto Saddlebag Grip 
(what I called the Quick Release) is here (if I have the link right -- if not, 
go to Bags and Racks on Riv website, second page has the Nitto Saddlebag Grip), 
and there's a picture there.  
http://www.rivbike.com/products/list/bags_and_racks?a=1page=3#product=20-109

You can actually get an even tighter connection than the one shown if you put 
the buckle inside the bag, so that all that shows outside is the strap.   
Releases in 1 second, reattaches in 1 second, totally solid connection, just a 
great product. Pricey, of course, but worth it, in my book.

Tom

-Original Message-
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Seth Vidal
Sent: Wednesday, December 09, 2009 5:49 PM
To: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Allingham II, Thomas J 
thomas.alling...@skadden.com wrote:
 I use a Big Box with the Nitto Quick Release gizmo (on Riv website) on a 
 Bombadil commuter.  It's a fantastic combo -- the Big Box is HUGE, and very 
 good looking (excellent usable pockets, too).  The Quick Release works 
 perfectly and has two added benefits: it drastically minimizes swaying of the 
 bag (it's a very firm connection), and it works great as a carry handle for 
 the bag when it's off the bike.

 Highly recommend it.


Please to be  adding pictures. I'd like to see what you're talking about here.

-sv

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Jim Cloud]

I'm somewhat confused about the statement that big companies use
plastic hardware that their in-house industrial designers design.  Is
Gilles Berthoud a big company, I didn't think so.  They do, however,
use many Klick-Fix attachment products that work quite well.  These
are made in Germany by Rixen  Kaul and are available in a large
variety to suit various needs.  Here's a link to an example of the
mounting for Gilles Berthoud' GB1500 panniers:

http://euroasiaimports.net/ProductCart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idcategory=551idproduct=5693

Gilles Berthoud uses the same type of mounting system on their GB799
panniers.  I own a set of the GB799 panniers they mount quite nicely
on a Nitto Campee style rear rack.  Here's a link to a photo from the
Wallingford Bicycle Parts site that shows the bag-making operations at
Gilles Berthoud in 2002 (apparently, they only had one person making
their bags at that time):

http://www.wallbike.com/berthoud/workstour/gbvisit10.html


Jim Cloud
Tucson, AZ

On Dec 9, 1:41 pm, Nicholas Grieco nicholasgri...@att.net wrote:
 Rivendell News, August 20th 2009http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/148

   We WILL have panniers and a messenger bag (--maybe on
   that) in the Spring. There are still some mounting details
   to work out for the panniers. The big companies use plastic
   hardware that their in-house industrial designers design,
   then they order millions of them to get the per-piece cost
   down, and that's not in the cards for us. If we can work
   out a dumbed-down version that works 95 percent as well,
   we'll go that way. We're about 75 percent of the way there
   now, but it's not on the front-burner right now.

 On Dec 9, 11:35 am, jandrews_nyc jasonaschwa...@gmail.com wrote:

  I think I read somewhere that Riv is going to release a pannier set...
  Does anyone know if this is true? I'm in the market for a set...maybe
  two and don't want to purchase until I see what Riv comes up with...
  Will they be part of the Sackville lineup?
  WIll they be more for commuting or touring specific?
  Anyone have any ideas?
  Also..still on the prowl for an appropriate Sam Hillborne Green paint
  touch up source...
  Thanks!

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[RBW] re: panniers

[arthur strum]

Nicole wrote:


 I'm debating between a Nigel Smythe Big Box and the as-of-yet-unseen
 panniers, but another consideration is that I don't have an office
 (and probably wont for at least another year and a half), and so my
 bike ends up being locked up outside all over Berkeley and Oakland
 cafes for hours at a time. That's led me to look for some easily
 detachable setup that turns into a messenger bag when I need to unload
 the bike, something like these from Basil:

 (The Weekender) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/item/145054
 (The Messenger) http://www.seattlebikesupply.com/catalog/bags-packs/ 
 messenger

 I'm still hoping for the Rivendell holy grail before I decide to try
 out the Basil, though.

 - Nicole


Nicole:
I seem to have gone through a similar thought process. For a long  
time, I used Ortlieb panniers to commute to work, but it was  
inconvenient to transfer the contents to a bag I could use at work  
(which involves going from classroom to classroom). Now I'm using a  
Carradice saddlebag (Riv's offerings would work well, too) with a  
quick release (read about it here (ingenious!): http:// 
www.cyclofiend.com/working/2009/wbph001-andreball0909.html -- this  
bag carries my lunch and clothes. The other part of my solution is a  
wide front rack with a Carradice Bike Bureau attached to it with the  
clips which usually fit on the rear rack rails. And perhaps a bungee  
over the top. I say 'solution' but this isn't implemented yet,  
because I still need the wide front rack to make it work. But when I  
have the rack, I'll have two quick-releasable bags, and one which  
looks just like a handsome school satchel. (note that the new Bike  
Bureaus are *much* better looking than what you see online, because  
they're using honey leather straps again) Alex Wetmore, who hosts the  
BOB list and many others, gave me the idea for the front setup. He  
uses a messenger bag.

Art
Tacoma

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Brian Hanson]

Nicole - I've been using a medium Wald (in front on a Mark's rack) and
Shopsack for a few months now, and I love it.  Super convenient, and easy to
put stuff even under the bag (when I have to bring donuts, and such).  The
bag just clips on, so it's easy to remove and doesn't affect much in the way
of ride-ability.  I've also used the basket as a light mount with the help
of a spare wine cork.  This setup has been better than my Ortlieb office bag
on the other bike, as it's more stuffable and there's more versatility
with a basket in terms of ease of use.  It also stays a lot cleaner being in
the front on the rainy days when the rear panniers tent to get a coating of
road grit.

BTW - for the post about the re-openable zip tie - just cut the old ones off
and use new ties when you want to put it back on.  They're super cheap - get
a big bag at a hardware store and you'll be set for years...

Brian

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Nicole E. nicolemea...@gmail.com wrote:

 Beautiful bags, Bill!

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:

 BTW - for the post about the re-openable zip tie - just cut the old ones off
 and use new ties when you want to put it back on.  They're super cheap - get
 a big bag at a hardware store and you'll be set for years...
 Brian


I can't do that - it's much too wasteful. I don't like the idea of
throwing something away like that.

-sv

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[doug peterson]

For pannier mounts, I called Wayne at the Touring Store
(touringstore.com)  he had Ortlieb's attachments.  Don't recall what
they're called but they hook over the rack and have a clever little
roll over fitting that wraps around the rack tube.  I fitted these up
to some REI panniers that don't lock properly onto my Nitto rack
(tubing is too big).  Clean, neat fix.

Another adaptation that solves a lot problems is D-rings with small
tubing clamps (any hardware store) and either small bungies or shock
cord.  For instance, I found the 4 Velcro straps on my Acorn bag a bit
awkward, so I fitted the bottom with a couple of D-rings and tie it
down with a bungie.  Quicker  simpler than Acorn's design, easier to
remove and actually puts a bit of tension on the bag so it's more
secure.  With imagination you can make some clean adaptations.  Oh,
and their cheap as well.

dougP

On Dec 9, 5:58 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
  BTW - for the post about the re-openable zip tie - just cut the old ones off
  and use new ties when you want to put it back on.  They're super cheap - get
  a big bag at a hardware store and you'll be set for years...
  Brian

 I can't do that - it's much too wasteful. I don't like the idea of
 throwing something away like that.

 -sv

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[RBW] Re: panniers

[Michael Dakin]

Could be tough to beat the connection quality of multiple zip ties--
rock solid.  I get the urge to remove the basket sometimes but I never
do because I too don't like the idea of wasting zip ties (and I know I
want the basket on there most of the time).

I wonder how well three properly sized and placed voile straps would
hold a wald onto a rack.  I'm thinking two placed in parallel along
the narrow dimension of the rack and one along the long dimension.
The straps are slightly elastic (not as elastic as a bungee) and you
can really crank them down tight.  As a bonus the orange color will
certainly add some speed to the bike (skiers too are concerned with
speed hence the color selection).  I have two straps that I use for
backcountry skiing but I don't currently have the urge to snip my zip
ties so the experiment will have to wait for another day.

I figure people on this list will find myriad uses for these wonderful
straps so I'm posting this message regardless that I've not run the
experiment.  They make great stocking-stuffers too.

http://www.voile-usa.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PRODProduct_Code=800Category_Code=VSSProduct_Count=0

(Disclaimer: I have NO personal or business relationship with Voile-
USA.)

 -Mike

On Dec 9, 5:58 pm, Seth Vidal skvi...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 8:35 PM, Brian Hanson stone...@gmail.com wrote:
  BTW - for the post about the re-openable zip tie - just cut the old ones off
  and use new ties when you want to put it back on.  They're super cheap - get
  a big bag at a hardware store and you'll be set for years...
  Brian

 I can't do that - it's much too wasteful. I don't like the idea of
 throwing something away like that.

 -sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[Seth Vidal]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 11:19 PM, Michael Dakin mpda...@gmail.com wrote:
 Could be tough to beat the connection quality of multiple zip ties--
 rock solid.  I get the urge to remove the basket sometimes but I never
 do because I too don't like the idea of wasting zip ties (and I know I
 want the basket on there most of the time).


Ah ha - I found them:

http://cableorganizer.com/cable-ties-releasable/

-sv

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Re: [RBW] Re: panniers

[james black]

On Wed, Dec 9, 2009 at 14:08, Bill Connell bconn...@gmail.com wrote:
 Thanks! Once you've made a saddlebag or two, you really appreciate the
 amount of work that goes into the Rivendell (and Carradice and Acorn,
 etc., etc.) bags. It's not as simple as you think, and there are a lot
 of little details that make a big difference in usability.

That's so true! I recently got my first sewing machine and tried to
make a saddlebag based on a design I dreamt up; kept modifying it in
an effort to make it work; and eventually abandoned the whole project.

You've done great!

James Black
Los Angeles, CA

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