Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[John McBurney]

Does anyone have experience with Velocity Wheels? I was thinking about an
Atlas 700c set with a dynamo front and velocity rear hub. Do Velocity hubs
offer preload adjustment? They are listed as hand built. For $590 seems
like a good deal if they are well built.

John

On Thu, Oct 10, 2019 at 6:13 AM Garth  wrote:

>
> James, which Bitex models are you referring to as almost all of their J
> bend rear hubs are available in a 135mm QR axle ?
> http://bitexhubs.com/htm/index.php
>
>
> Any experience with a Velocity ATB hub, the base cartridge bearing one ?
> https://www.velocityusa.com/product/hubs/atb-rear-hub  It seems like an
> alternative to the Shimano ones and from what I've seen Velocity offers
> very good warranty service.
>
>  I noticed on a new Deore rear hub some sag and lag of the chain as you
> mention, leading to some chain suck which I've never experienced on the
> Bombadil using Sachs freehweels.
>
>
>
>
> On Thursday, October 10, 2019 at 2:57:04 AM UTC-4, James / Analog Cycles
> wrote:
>>
>> Bitex touring hubs are the best bang for the buck touring hub out there.
>> Big Enduro sealed bearings, rebuildable steel freehub, adjustable bearing
>> preload... About half the cost of White.  I don't know why anyone would
>> build a nice wheel without butted spokes.  Sapim force or race spokes go on
>> even our most budget oriented wheel builds.  After multiple mud seasons,
>> the bitex hubs we run on our personal bikes are still spinning smoothly.
>> Yearly tear downs reveal only the most minimal contamination.  The main
>> difference in 'ride quality' is going to be engagement and ease of
>> coasting.  Shimano FH bodies are not rebuildable, and have a relatively
>> short service life in my experience (19 years building wheels).  Coasting
>> with Shimano FH bodies is often sort of sticky, with the chain lagging and
>> sagging when you go rapidly from pedaling to coasting.  That, plus the slow
>> engagement, are all the 'ride quality' differences you are going to have
>> between a nicer hub and a Shimano.  Bitex hubs use 48t engagement with 6
>> pairs of pawls.  White by contrast, uses 3 pawls, no pairs.  The White hubs
>> are nice, and they look better.  That's the main draw, besides slightly
>> lower weight.
>>
>> Re:  Rim widths.  If you don't care about Tubeless, the Atlas rim is
>> fine, but get it with machined sidewalls for more consistent braking.
>> Really though, the Cliffhangers feel fine with 38mm tires even on really
>> rough terrain, and why run a tire smaller than that ever?  Plus you can run
>> tubeless, which for the desert, has gotta be helpful.
>>
>> For whatever it's worth, we stopped selling Atlas rims and Shimano hubs
>> about 3 years ago.  Bitex touring hubs are that much better, as are
>> cliffhangers.  A bit more scratch, but not a ton!
>>
>> -James / Analog Cycles / Wheel builder
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 9:20:43 AM UTC-4, Steve Cole wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm building up a new-to-me MIT Atlantis.  My best guess is that this is
>>> my final build short of deciding to have a custom frame built for me, which
>>> is unlikely.  As a result, I'm willing to spend somewhat more on components
>>> that I otherwise would.  I've been thinking about the wheels I want and
>>> would be grateful for advice.  Are Velocity rims and Deore hubs more than
>>> sufficient -- in other words would I notice any difference in the short- or
>>> longer-term if I use more upscale hubs such as Phil Wood, Chris King, White
>>> Industries or Shimano XTR?  For rims, I've been thinking about using
>>> Velocity Atlas as I'll be riding on and off-road in the desert southwest.
>>> Are there other rims I should consider?  Thanks for your input.
>>>
>>> Steve Cole
>>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Pancake]

Great find Tarik, thanks!

The Alex Adventure (sometimes called Adventurer) 2 rim is a great fit for 
the tire sizes we've been talking about, and at a lower cost it could save 
a bit to spend on nicer hubs or other bits. They're also lighter than the 
Cliffhangers (by 95g) and Atlas (by 50g) for those who're counting. I'll be 
looking for reviews but nothing comes up quickly. 

Details of the Alex Adventure 2:
Color Black with silver machined sidewalls
Tubeless Compatible / tubeless ready
Holes 32h or 36h 
Sizes 26" or 700c
*Tire sizes: 28-50mm tire width range (great for all but the hillybike 
Rivs!) *
Outer width 26 mm
Inner width 21 mm
Overall height 17.8 mm
Weight 580g in 36h, 556g  in 32h (according to 
https://www.kstoerz.com/freespoke/rim/400, but Alex claims 530g in 32h)

UniversalCycles has them - the wheelset I'm looking at (XT T780 hubs, DT 
Competition spokes, DT brass nipples) would be ~$270 shipped and built with 
this rims, great find!

TreefortBikes has some details (include the tire width size range: 
https://www.treefortbikes.com/Alex-Adventure-2-Rim-TRS-700c-w-Machined-Sidewall

Great find, thanks!
Abe

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 4:07:15 PM UTC-7, tarik...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I will point out that the new Alex adventurer 2 Rims are cheap and rim 
> brake and tubeless compatible. I think $30-35 at your LBS.  I got a few in 
> both 26" and 700C for rim brake and cruiser bikes that I am sick of getting 
> goat head flats on, but have not built them up yet. Based on their 
> similarity to the pre tubeless Alex adventurer rims, I think they will 
> built up pretty straight and true.  Not light, maybe similar to 
> cliffhangers though. Pretty wide. Very inexpensive compared to the 
> Cliffhanger,  Quill or Brevet or other tubless wide rim brake rims.   
> Probably only black, or black with a silver machined brake track.  They 
> come in 559, 584 and 622 (26", 650B, 700c)
>
> Tarik
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[tarik saleh]

I will point out that the new Alex adventurer 2 Rims are cheap and rim
brake and tubeless compatible. I think $30-35 at your LBS.  I got a few in
both 26" and 700C for rim brake and cruiser bikes that I am sick of getting
goat head flats on, but have not built them up yet. Based on their
similarity to the pre tubeless Alex adventurer rims, I think they will
built up pretty straight and true.  Not light, maybe similar to
cliffhangers though. Pretty wide. Very inexpensive compared to the
Cliffhanger,  Quill or Brevet or other tubless wide rim brake rims.
Probably only black, or black with a silver machined brake track.  They
come in 559, 584 and 622 (26", 650B, 700c)

Tarik




On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 2:04 PM Toshi Takeuchi  wrote:

> Apparently: Any XT rear hub prior to the FH-M770 has 10x1.0 steel axle and
> 18x1/4" balls.
> It seems the newer XT rear hubs have an aluminum axle and smaller balls,
> and have had issues seizing up--I don't know if that has been resolved.
>
> My wheels are all older XT or WI hubs.  Cliffhanger or quill would be what
> I would use now.  I previously used A23/synergy.
>
> Good luck!
> Toshi
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:48 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Also: I don't think that my (purchased 2019) XT hub has the aluminum axle.
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:47 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I
>>> recently had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which
>>> I assume is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's
>>> designation is, and when it was introduced.
>>>
>>> No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet
>>> -- a few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found
>>> several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from
>>> 2016, about the seizure problem.
>>>
>>> https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592
>>>
>>> Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?
>>>
>>> All: Is the current model the same one?
>>>
>>> Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in
>>> ABQ, NM.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>>
 ...

 I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the
 current XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up
 turning the bike into a fixed wheel.

>>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> ---
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>>
>>
>>
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>> 
>> .
>>
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>


-- 
Tarik Saleh
tas at tariksaleh dot com
in los alamos, NM, USA, po box 208, 87544
http://tariksaleh.com
Tarik Saleh Bike Club!: http://tariksaleh.com/tsbc


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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[John McBurney]

I run Cliffhangers tubeless with Compass 44 front and 38 rear. No problems.

Other options could include Pacenti Brevet for a traditional look and HED
Belgium.

John

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 10:23 AM Steve Cole  wrote:

> I considered Cliffhangers but Velocity specs them at 45-65 mm.  This seems
> to reduce my flexibility.  I was planning on using RH Snoqualmie Pass
> Endurance+ tires that are 44 mm.  If I wanted to go to a narrower tire, the
> Cliffhangers are not ideal.
>
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 9:48:04 AM UTC-4, Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY
> wrote:
>>
>> For riding in the desert you might like the Cliffhanger for it's tubeless
>> option, I think the Atlas doesn't do tubeless? That's assuming you're not
>> going sub 40mm with your tires.
>> -Kai
>>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Patrick Moore]

Thanks Clayton and the rest. I take it then that, perhaps, the problem has
been fixed in the intervening 5 or so years. At any rate, I'm certainly
experienced in riding fixed drivetrains.

I would think that an aluminum axle would be (1) silver in color and (2)
fatter in diameter than a steel one. I did not notice -- and I would have
done so, methinks -- a fat silver axle on my new wheel when I picked it up,
played with it, and then installedit.



On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 2:31 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:

> Bought my hub in 2014. Model was: Shimano FH-T780 XT Rear Hub (36H Rear,
> Silver)
>
> Hope this helps. I did some research when it happened and there were a few
> other people having issues.
> I talked about this before on the bob list or rbw list and linked to some
> of the sources.
>
> Best,
> Clayton Scott
> HBG, CA
>
> On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:47:22 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>>
>> All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I recently
>> had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which I assume
>> is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's designation
>> is, and when it was introduced.
>>
>> No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet --
>> a few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found
>> several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from
>> 2016, about the seizure problem.
>>
>> https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592
>>
>> Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?
>>
>> All: Is the current model the same one?
>>
>> Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in
>> ABQ, NM.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the
>>> current XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up
>>> turning the bike into a fixed wheel.
>>>
>> --
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> .
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-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Clayton.sf]

Bought my hub in 2014. Model was: Shimano FH-T780 XT Rear Hub (36H Rear, 
Silver)

Hope this helps. I did some research when it happened and there were a few 
other people having issues. 
I talked about this before on the bob list or rbw list and linked to some 
of the sources.

Best,
Clayton Scott
HBG, CA

On Wednesday, October 9, 2019 at 12:47:22 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote:
>
> All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I recently 
> had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which I assume 
> is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's designation 
> is, and when it was introduced.
>
> No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet -- 
> a few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found 
> several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from 
> 2016, about the seizure problem.
>
> https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592
>
> Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?
>
> All: Is the current model the same one?
>
> Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in 
> ABQ, NM.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  > wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the 
>> current XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up 
>> turning the bike into a fixed wheel.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Toshi Takeuchi]

Apparently: Any XT rear hub prior to the FH-M770 has 10x1.0 steel axle and
18x1/4" balls.
It seems the newer XT rear hubs have an aluminum axle and smaller balls,
and have had issues seizing up--I don't know if that has been resolved.

My wheels are all older XT or WI hubs.  Cliffhanger or quill would be what
I would use now.  I previously used A23/synergy.

Good luck!
Toshi


On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:48 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Also: I don't think that my (purchased 2019) XT hub has the aluminum axle.
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:47 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I recently
>> had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which I assume
>> is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's designation
>> is, and when it was introduced.
>>
>> No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet --
>> a few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found
>> several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from
>> 2016, about the seizure problem.
>>
>> https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592
>>
>> Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?
>>
>> All: Is the current model the same one?
>>
>> Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in
>> ABQ, NM.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:
>>
>>> ...
>>>
>>> I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the
>>> current XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up
>>> turning the bike into a fixed wheel.
>>>
>>
>
> --
>
> ---
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique
>
>
>
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> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Patrick Moore]

Also: I don't think that my (purchased 2019) XT hub has the aluminum axle.

On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 1:47 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I recently
> had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which I assume
> is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's designation
> is, and when it was introduced.
>
> No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet --
> a few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found
> several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from
> 2016, about the seizure problem.
>
> https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592
>
> Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?
>
> All: Is the current model the same one?
>
> Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in
> ABQ, NM.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:
>
>> ...
>>
>> I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the
>> current XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up
>> turning the bike into a fixed wheel.
>>
>

-- 

---
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique

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Re: [RBW] Re: Advice Sought on Hubs and Rim Choice

[Patrick Moore]

All: Has Clayton's experience been a common one? I ask because I recently
had the rear wheel for the Matthews rebuilt with an XT hub, which I assume
is the current model; I have no idea what the current model's designation
is, and when it was introduced.

No hint of problems so far, but then I've not put many miles on it yet -- a
few hundred. An entirely cursory Google-verb-transitive search found
several problem conversations from 10 or more years ago, and only 1, from
2016, about the seizure problem.

https://forum.cyclinguk.org/viewtopic.php?t=108592

Clayton: Were yours 2016 models?

All: Is the current model the same one?

Patrick Moore, desperately hoping Clayton's hub was a total outlier, in
ABQ, NM.



On Wed, Oct 9, 2019 at 12:42 PM Clayton.sf  wrote:

> ...
>
> I recommend not using Shimano hubs in the rear; especially not the current
> XT version. I have had two of their recent XT freehubs seize up turning the
> bike into a fixed wheel.
>

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