Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Dan Sullivan]

That’s a beaut. Happy trails!

On Sunday, April 14, 2024 at 11:51:43 AM UTC-5 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Just an update - went with cantis! now i have to go buy the rest of the 
> bicycle...
>
> [image: bleriot.jpg]
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 28, 2024 at 5:12:14 PM UTC-8 Josiah Anderson wrote:
>
> I want to jump in here on one of my pet issues: "squishy" brakes are *not* 
> a problem provided they still stop well, and squish can be indicative of 
> good braking. If they feel stiff, all that means is that you don't have as 
> much mechanical advantage as you could, because of design or setup. If more 
> mechanical advantage is added, the pads and possibly the calipers WILL 
> squish, no matter what. It will feel "mushy" and there will be more power. 
> The best brakes I've ever used were v-brakes operated by short-pull levers, 
> which required very true wheels and felt extremely soft, but provided truly 
> impressive braking thanks to the high MA at both the lever and brake. That 
> was the setup that taught me that squishy brakes can be good. 
>
> Soft-feeling brakes also often allow for better modulation than a binary 
> "on-off" brake feeling. In a very stiff-feeling brake system, there is 
> minimal difference in braking power between just barely engaging the brake 
> and yanking as hard as you can, because the lever stops moving in a very 
> defined spot and no amount of force that human hands can apply will move it 
> farther, so the pads don't grip the rim any harder either. That is the 
> definition of a "stiff" feel; you can't get around that, only improve it 
> with more MA (and a softer brake feel). This means that the initial "bite" 
> needs to be very strong, which is the opposite of what I want from a brake. 
> I want to have control over exactly how much braking I get, from "very 
> little" to "STOP RIGHT NOW" and everywhere in between. Good centerpulls 
> absolutely can provide that, and the "squish" that you may feel is simply 
> the feeling of good modulation.
>
> However, if the "soft" feeling is from the caliper flexing (like Tektro 
> 559s do), that is not desirable, because the lever travel is just moving 
> the brake and not the pads. Those brakes have a relatively low MA (and low 
> usefulness as brakes) because if it were higher they would flex even worse. 
> Maybe this phenomenon is the root of the misunderstanding; if squishy 
> long-reach-sidepulls were the only soft-feeling brakes I'd experienced, 
> then I would probably shoot for stiffness too. 
>
> I hope that all makes sense and is helpful.
>
> Josiah Anderson
> Missoula MT
>
> On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 4:06:12 PM UTC-5 kyleco...@gmail.com 
> wrote:
>
> Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your 
> questions:
>
> *Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
> I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's 
> seem to be more intended for the Bleriot 
> . The Rene Herse are 
> for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame 
> builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and 
> fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's 
>  
> I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's 
> bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting 
> up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about 
> getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it 
> poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.
>
> *Will you be using fenders? *
> Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully 
> some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair 
> of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a 
> big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice 
> pair of honjos!
>
> *Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights 
> etc)?*
> If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the 
> brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a 
> nitto s rack 
> 
> .
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell  
> wrote:
>
> Hey Kyle! 
>
> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with 
> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed 
> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender 
> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork. 
>
> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after 
> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have 
> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw 
> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Josiah Anderson]

I want to jump in here on one of my pet issues: "squishy" brakes are *not*
a problem provided they still stop well, and squish can be indicative of
good braking. If they feel stiff, all that means is that you don't have as
much mechanical advantage as you could, because of design or setup. If more
mechanical advantage is added, the pads and possibly the calipers WILL
squish, no matter what. It will feel "mushy" and there will be more power.
The best brakes I've ever used were v-brakes operated by short-pull levers,
which required very true wheels and felt extremely soft, but provided truly
impressive braking thanks to the high MA at both the lever and brake. That
was the setup that taught me that squishy brakes can be good.

Soft-feeling brakes also often allow for better modulation than a binary
"on-off" brake feeling. In a very stiff-feeling brake system, there is
minimal difference in braking power between just barely engaging the brake
and yanking as hard as you can, because the lever stops moving in a very
defined spot and no amount of force that human hands can apply will move it
farther, so the pads don't grip the rim any harder either. That is the
definition of a "stiff" feel; you can't get around that, only improve it
with more MA (and a softer brake feel). This means that the initial "bite"
needs to be very strong, which is the opposite of what I want from a brake.
I want to have control over exactly how much braking I get, from "very
little" to "STOP RIGHT NOW" and everywhere in between. Good centerpulls
absolutely can provide that, and the "squish" that you may feel is simply
the feeling of good modulation.

However, if the "soft" feeling is from the caliper flexing (like Tektro
559s do), that is not desirable, because the lever travel is just moving
the brake and not the pads. Those brakes have a relatively low MA (and low
usefulness as brakes) because if it were higher they would flex even worse.
Maybe this phenomenon is the root of the misunderstanding; if squishy
long-reach-sidepulls were the only soft-feeling brakes I'd experienced,
then I would probably shoot for stiffness too.

I hope that all makes sense and is helpful.

Josiah Anderson
Missoula MT

On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 4:06:12 PM UTC-5 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your
>> questions:
>>
>> *Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
>> I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's
>> seem to be more intended for the Bleriot
>> . The Rene Herse are
>> for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame
>> builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and
>> fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's
>> 
>> I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's
>> bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting
>> up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about
>> getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it
>> poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.
>>
>> *Will you be using fenders? *
>> Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully
>> some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair
>> of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a
>> big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice
>> pair of honjos!
>>
>> *Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights
>> etc)?*
>> If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the
>> brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a
>> nitto s rack
>> 
>> .
>>
>>
>> Kyle
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Kyle!
>>>
>>> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with
>>> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed
>>> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender
>>> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork.
>>>
>>> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after
>>> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have
>>> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw
>>> everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black
>>> compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked
>>> in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl.
>>>
>>> Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and
>>> large tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the
>>> centerpull arms. 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

['John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch]

Kyle said  " I was looking at the Rene Herse cps."  

I have the RH CP's and I don't think they are all they are advertised and 
are not worth their high price.
The pads are extremely difficult to adjust and RH does not provide a tool 
to hold them in place during adjustment
The brakes don't seem much better than the Dia Comp 610/750s I used on 
another bike.
The 'quick release' design, squeeze the return spring arm and move it off 
the caliper, is an invitation to prick your fingers and hand.  
RH does not sell the small washer for the straddle cable movement, unless 
you pay $115 for a complete hardware set.

IMHO, I would use a pair of Dia Compes, just buy new springs.  Other 
posters have used the their existing bolt on ones and removed the arms from 
the yoke.  RBW could probably tell you which model, 610 or 750, fits the 
Beloit.

If you are using 42/44 mm tires, you will need a 62mm wide fender to obtain 
the 1.4 ratio of fender width/tire width Jan Heine recommends.  A 62mm 
fender requires indenting at the fork crown and possible seatstays.   A 
38mm tire and a 52mm fender gives an adequate 1.37 ratio and should clear 
the fork crown.

Just my 2c

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 4:06:12 PM UTC-5 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your 
> questions:
>
> *Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
> I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's 
> seem to be more intended for the Bleriot 
> . The Rene Herse are 
> for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame 
> builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and 
> fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's 
>  
> I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's 
> bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting 
> up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about 
> getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it 
> poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.
>
> *Will you be using fenders? *
> Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully 
> some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair 
> of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a 
> big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice 
> pair of honjos!
>
> *Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights 
> etc)?*
> If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the 
> brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a 
> nitto s rack 
> 
> .
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell  
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Kyle! 
>>
>> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with 
>> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed 
>> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender 
>> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork. 
>>
>> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after 
>> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have 
>> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw 
>> everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black 
>> compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked 
>> in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl. 
>>
>> Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and 
>> large tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the 
>> centerpull arms. If you want to go above 42mm tire with fenders I would go 
>> cantilever.
>>
>> Post location on the fork - Not a deal breaker but the posts are mounted 
>> really close to the fork crown. Its more of an aesthetic thing for me. In 
>> fact, its probably better as it moves the posts into the HAZ of the fork 
>> crown/blade joint
>>
>> Brian Chapman has some of the best reference images for how large tires, 
>> large fenders, and direct mount centerpulls should look. 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/35900124245/in/photostream/
>>
>> Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? Will you be 
>> using fenders? are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs 
>> (racks, lights etc) ?
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>> Christian
>> Phoenix, AZ
>> On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 10:07:56 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the 
>>> previous owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the 
>>> frame could 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Brent Knepper]

I have a bleriot with paul centerpulls and it clears 42s with fenders, or 
48s without, but I too would prefer it to have cantis! the pauls are my 
only centerpull experience, and though they stopped well I always observed 
a lot of squishiness at the lever as well- which I've since reduced a lot 
of that squish with beefier/more rigid cable hangers, linear brake housing 
with filed flat ends, and even shimming the housing to close up gaps the 
cable stops

I can now see the remaining squish is the actually the power of the brakes 
compressing brake pads a *lot. *that's pretty cool when ya think of the 
modulation aspect, but my other bike with cantis and 48s has just as much 
braking power without all tinkering ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ time saved on brake tinkering 
just went into drivetrain tinkering but hey waddayagonnado

-Brent shruggin in chicago

On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-6 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your 
> questions:
>
> *Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
> I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's 
> seem to be more intended for the Bleriot 
> . The Rene Herse are 
> for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame 
> builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and 
> fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's 
>  
> I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's 
> bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting 
> up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about 
> getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it 
> poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.
>
> *Will you be using fenders? *
> Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully 
> some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair 
> of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a 
> big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice 
> pair of honjos!
>
> *Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights 
> etc)?*
> If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the 
> brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a 
> nitto s rack 
> 
> .
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell  
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Kyle! 
>>
>> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with 
>> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed 
>> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender 
>> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork. 
>>
>> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after 
>> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have 
>> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw 
>> everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black 
>> compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked 
>> in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl. 
>>
>> Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and 
>> large tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the 
>> centerpull arms. If you want to go above 42mm tire with fenders I would go 
>> cantilever.
>>
>> Post location on the fork - Not a deal breaker but the posts are mounted 
>> really close to the fork crown. Its more of an aesthetic thing for me. In 
>> fact, its probably better as it moves the posts into the HAZ of the fork 
>> crown/blade joint
>>
>> Brian Chapman has some of the best reference images for how large tires, 
>> large fenders, and direct mount centerpulls should look. 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/35900124245/in/photostream/
>>
>> Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? Will you be 
>> using fenders? are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs 
>> (racks, lights etc) ?
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>> Christian
>> Phoenix, AZ
>> On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 10:07:56 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the 
>>> previous owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the 
>>> frame could take any larger. Seems to be part of our good fortune of people 
>>> making products around larger tires these days. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 1:50 AM iamkeith  wrote:
>>>
 Would you gain any tire/fender clearace advantage by choosing 
 cantilevers?  Or will the chainstays end up being the thing that 
 determines 
 max size?

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Brent Knepper]

I have a bleriot with paul centerpulls and it clears 42s with fenders, or 
48s without, but I too would prefer it to have cantis! the pauls are my 
only centerpull experience, and though they stopped well I always observed 
a lot of squishiness at the lever as well- which I've since reduced a lot 
of that squish with beefier/more rigid cable hangers, linear brake housing 
with filed flat ends, and even shimming the housing to close up gaps the 
cable stops

I can now see the remaining squish is the actually the power of the brakes 
compressing brake pads a *lot. *that's pretty cool when ya think of the 
modulation aspect, but my other bike with cantis and 48s has just as much 
braking power without all tinkering ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ time saved on brake tinkering 
just went into drivetrain tinkering but hey waddayagonnado
On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 3:06:12 PM UTC-6 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your 
> questions:
>
> *Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
> I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's 
> seem to be more intended for the Bleriot 
> . The Rene Herse are 
> for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame 
> builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and 
> fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's 
>  
> I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's 
> bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting 
> up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about 
> getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it 
> poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.
>
> *Will you be using fenders? *
> Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully 
> some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair 
> of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a 
> big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice 
> pair of honjos!
>
> *Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights 
> etc)?*
> If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the 
> brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a 
> nitto s rack 
> 
> .
>
>
> Kyle
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell  
> wrote:
>
>> Hey Kyle! 
>>
>> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with 
>> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed 
>> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender 
>> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork. 
>>
>> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after 
>> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have 
>> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw 
>> everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black 
>> compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked 
>> in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl. 
>>
>> Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and 
>> large tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the 
>> centerpull arms. If you want to go above 42mm tire with fenders I would go 
>> cantilever.
>>
>> Post location on the fork - Not a deal breaker but the posts are mounted 
>> really close to the fork crown. Its more of an aesthetic thing for me. In 
>> fact, its probably better as it moves the posts into the HAZ of the fork 
>> crown/blade joint
>>
>> Brian Chapman has some of the best reference images for how large tires, 
>> large fenders, and direct mount centerpulls should look. 
>> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/35900124245/in/photostream/
>>
>> Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? Will you be 
>> using fenders? are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs 
>> (racks, lights etc) ?
>>
>> Good Luck! 
>> Christian
>> Phoenix, AZ
>> On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 10:07:56 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the 
>>> previous owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the 
>>> frame could take any larger. Seems to be part of our good fortune of people 
>>> making products around larger tires these days. 
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 1:50 AM iamkeith  wrote:
>>>
 Would you gain any tire/fender clearace advantage by choosing 
 cantilevers?  Or will the chainstays end up being the thing that 
 determines 
 max size?
 On Sunday, February 25, 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Kyle Cotchett]

Hey Christian thanks for all your thoughts! To answer a couple of your
questions:

*Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? *
I was looking at the Rene Herse cps. I'd be looking to run 44's, but 42's
seem to be more intended for the Bleriot
. The Rene Herse are
for sure pricey, and I will be spending a bit as it is with the frame
builder mods. However, they state they have the clearance for 42s and
fenders. I have a pair of dia-compe canti's

I love on another bicycle, so much so I put a pair on my girlfriend's
bicycle. On that note: @Patrick - I've gotten pretty comfy now at setting
up canti's with drop bars. Specifically the dia-comps. It's all about
getting that straddle wire set up in the right position. I have done it
poorly on other pairs of cantis and been called out by real mechanics haha.

*Will you be using fenders? *
Potentially. I see most of these tours happening in summer and hopefully
some that require a flight in the nearish future. I'd probably snag a pair
of SKS for easy mounting and peace of mind when flying. not so much of a
big deal if my plastic fenders get damaged instead of banging up a nice
pair of honjos!

*Are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs (racks, lights
etc)?*
If I did canti's I would likely get a Nitto M12 and attach it to the
brakes. I do plan on having low rider pannier attachments put on for a
nitto s rack

.


Kyle



On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 12:17 PM christian poppell 
wrote:

> Hey Kyle!
>
> I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with
> new Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed
> cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender
> fitting, and braze on locations on the fork.
>
> Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after
> adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have
> not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw
> everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black
> compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked
> in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl.
>
> Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and large
> tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the centerpull
> arms. If you want to go above 42mm tire with fenders I would go cantilever.
>
> Post location on the fork - Not a deal breaker but the posts are mounted
> really close to the fork crown. Its more of an aesthetic thing for me. In
> fact, its probably better as it moves the posts into the HAZ of the fork
> crown/blade joint
>
> Brian Chapman has some of the best reference images for how large tires,
> large fenders, and direct mount centerpulls should look.
> https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/35900124245/in/photostream/
>
> Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? Will you be
> using fenders? are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs
> (racks, lights etc) ?
>
> Good Luck!
> Christian
> Phoenix, AZ
> On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 10:07:56 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the
>> previous owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the
>> frame could take any larger. Seems to be part of our good fortune of people
>> making products around larger tires these days.
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 1:50 AM iamkeith  wrote:
>>
>>> Would you gain any tire/fender clearace advantage by choosing
>>> cantilevers?  Or will the chainstays end up being the thing that determines
>>> max size?
>>> On Sunday, February 25, 2024 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hey all,

 Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a
 local frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am
 looking to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having
 cantilever or centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who
 have ridden both?

 Kyle

>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
>>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/9Jqr2OjGTus/unsubscribe
>>> .
>>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
>>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>>> To view this discussion on the web visit
>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/48792c69-e485-487c-bea6-0599dc1bdbb5n%40googlegroups.com
>>> 

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[christian poppell]

Hey Kyle! 

I have used cantilevers and direct mounted centerpulls (MAFAC RAID with new 
Rene Herse hardware). If I could do it over I would have installed 
cantilevers. The downsides for centerpulls for me are modulation, fender 
fitting, and braze on locations on the fork. 

Modulation - The MAFAC RAID brakes feel more squishy to me, even after 
adding a brake booster to the rear. Also, despite my best efforts, I have 
not been able to eliminate the howling from the rear brake. I threw 
everything at them, new bushings, toe in washers, salmon pads, black 
compound pads, sanded and filed the pads, sanded the rims, rode and braked 
in the rain and in the dirt. Nothing has stopped the howl. 

Fender fitting - There would be a lot more room to mount fenders and large 
tires with cantilevers. Honjo h80s rub on the inside of the centerpull 
arms. If you want to go above 42mm tire with fenders I would go cantilever.

Post location on the fork - Not a deal breaker but the posts are mounted 
really close to the fork crown. Its more of an aesthetic thing for me. In 
fact, its probably better as it moves the posts into the HAZ of the fork 
crown/blade joint

Brian Chapman has some of the best reference images for how large tires, 
large fenders, and direct mount centerpulls should 
look. https://www.flickr.com/photos/chapmancycles/35900124245/in/photostream/

Which CPs are you considering and what is your max tire size? Will you be 
using fenders? are you planning on mounting anything to the brake studs 
(racks, lights etc) ?

Good Luck! 
Christian
Phoenix, AZ
On Monday, February 26, 2024 at 10:07:56 AM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com wrote:

> good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the 
> previous owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the 
> frame could take any larger. Seems to be part of our good fortune of people 
> making products around larger tires these days. 
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 1:50 AM iamkeith  wrote:
>
>> Would you gain any tire/fender clearace advantage by choosing 
>> cantilevers?  Or will the chainstays end up being the thing that determines 
>> max size?
>> On Sunday, February 25, 2024 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey all,
>>>
>>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local 
>>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking 
>>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or 
>>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden 
>>> both?
>>>
>>> Kyle
>>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
>> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/9Jqr2OjGTus/unsubscribe
>> .
>> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to 
>> rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/48792c69-e485-487c-bea6-0599dc1bdbb5n%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
> KYLE V. COTCHETT
>
> An urban planner of sorts
>
> kyleco...@gmail.com
>
> (650) 863-0925 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/d87de7a7-f7b5-46ac-99dc-3d0b13ec991an%40googlegroups.com.

Re: [RBW] Re: Cantilevers or Direct Mount-Centerpulls

[Kyle Cotchett]

good question. I would think the brakes would play a part, but the previous
owner was running paul center pulls and 48s - I don't think the frame could
take any larger. Seems to be part of our good fortune of people making
products around larger tires these days.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2024 at 1:50 AM iamkeith  wrote:

> Would you gain any tire/fender clearace advantage by choosing
> cantilevers?  Or will the chainstays end up being the thing that determines
> max size?
> On Sunday, February 25, 2024 at 1:05:38 PM UTC-7 kyleco...@gmail.com
> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> Just swooped up an old bleriot that I am going to be bringing to a local
>> frame builder to do some mods to for racks and mounted brakes. I am looking
>> to set this one up as a touring bike and torn between having cantilever or
>> centerpull brake posts installed. Any thoughts from folks who have ridden
>> both?
>>
>> Kyle
>>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the
> Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/rbw-owners-bunch/9Jqr2OjGTus/unsubscribe
> .
> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to
> rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/48792c69-e485-487c-bea6-0599dc1bdbb5n%40googlegroups.com
> 
> .
>


-- 

KYLE V. COTCHETT

An urban planner of sorts

kylecotch...@gmail.com

(650) 863-0925

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW 
Owners Bunch" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit 
https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CANjf-PGHKA25ddHLuq%2BEQH8sRPMtZ0_J-prC3aBaHmknXmMWhg%40mail.gmail.com.