Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Patrick, If your customs are 73 sta, your Ram has a shallower sta. Have you tried moving the seat forward a little on the Ram? That could improve your feel on your Ram. Just a thought. Don On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:20:01 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Interesting thoughts. I can't answer your question, merely return my own thoughts. My Ram doesn't have a short tt; it's 57 c-c on a 58 c-c st (if memory serves). I have a 9 cm stem holding a 42 cm Noodle; the Noodle sweeps back, so the setup is much like the 8 cm stems on the other Rivs holding drops with straight flats. Bar is about 3 cm below saddle, like my others. And the seat tube angle is 72, IRRC -- not hugely steeper than the 73* on my customs. I agree that what it feels like when I sit back and push small gears up a steep hill is that the front end is light. But that's the case with all my bikes in such situations, and they don't seem to want to wander to the same degree. The Sam Hill, a 56 which had an excessively long (for me) tt of 59 c-c, seemed to wander even more -- though to mitigate the long tt I had to have the bar much higher than I really wanted it. Aside: about weight carrying: The Ram actually handles heavy rear loads quite well; much better than other road bikes I've used for the purpose, and better than the custom errand Riv (which was not designed as an errand bike). It's only when the slope steepens, and when I sit back and up, that the front seems to wander. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, iamkeith keith...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: Could it be possible that the Ram wandering has more to do with a relatively short top tube length, than it does the fork rake/trail numbers? I found myself fighting the geometry a bit when I was getting mine dialed in. The short top tube, combined with a relaxed seat tube angle, *seems* to suggest a design intent of setting the seat back quite far relative to the bottom bracket and this, in turn, suggests a higher handlebar position. Very Riv-ish, basically. But this particular bike never felt right to me for some reason, when set up that way. It tracked well enough to ride no-hands (a personal litmus test), but it did sort of wander when climbing, and I found myself sitting way up on the nose of the saddle much of the time, in order to keep my weight on the front end. So I ended up slamming the seat all the way forward on the rails, going with a bit longer stem, wider noodle bar than the stock spec., and keeping the handlebars at or slightly below seat height. It feels much better when climbing and it became a bit more lively - which is something I know you've often commented on. Just musing here. I don't in any way pretend to understand the geometry of road bikes, and my experience is very limited. I'm a mountain biker. The ONLY road bikes I've owned,since the mid 70s are an RB-1, a Rambouillet, an All Rounder and a Quickbeam. What's curious to me though, is that on the Quickbeam (which is the exact same vintage and size as my Ram, but has a longer top tube), I'm comfortable with the seat set back farther, where I would have expected the opposite. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't see the
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Saddle setback is a constant; it's the same on all my bikes. On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Don Compton dpco...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, If your customs are 73 sta, your Ram has a shallower sta. Have you tried moving the seat forward a little on the Ram? That could improve your feel on your Ram. Just a thought. Don On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:20:01 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Interesting thoughts. I can't answer your question, merely return my own thoughts. My Ram doesn't have a short tt; it's 57 c-c on a 58 c-c st (if memory serves). I have a 9 cm stem holding a 42 cm Noodle; the Noodle sweeps back, so the setup is much like the 8 cm stems on the other Rivs holding drops with straight flats. Bar is about 3 cm below saddle, like my others. And the seat tube angle is 72, IRRC -- not hugely steeper than the 73* on my customs. I agree that what it feels like when I sit back and push small gears up a steep hill is that the front end is light. But that's the case with all my bikes in such situations, and they don't seem to want to wander to the same degree. The Sam Hill, a 56 which had an excessively long (for me) tt of 59 c-c, seemed to wander even more -- though to mitigate the long tt I had to have the bar much higher than I really wanted it. Aside: about weight carrying: The Ram actually handles heavy rear loads quite well; much better than other road bikes I've used for the purpose, and better than the custom errand Riv (which was not designed as an errand bike). It's only when the slope steepens, and when I sit back and up, that the front seems to wander. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, iamkeith keith...@gmail.com wrote: Could it be possible that the Ram wandering has more to do with a relatively short top tube length, than it does the fork rake/trail numbers? I found myself fighting the geometry a bit when I was getting mine dialed in. The short top tube, combined with a relaxed seat tube angle, *seems* to suggest a design intent of setting the seat back quite far relative to the bottom bracket and this, in turn, suggests a higher handlebar position. Very Riv-ish, basically. But this particular bike never felt right to me for some reason, when set up that way. It tracked well enough to ride no-hands (a personal litmus test), but it did sort of wander when climbing, and I found myself sitting way up on the nose of the saddle much of the time, in order to keep my weight on the front end. So I ended up slamming the seat all the way forward on the rails, going with a bit longer stem, wider noodle bar than the stock spec., and keeping the handlebars at or slightly below seat height. It feels much better when climbing and it became a bit more lively - which is something I know you've often commented on. Just musing here. I don't in any way pretend to understand the geometry of road bikes, and my experience is very limited. I'm a mountain biker. The ONLY road bikes I've owned,since the mid 70s are an RB-1, a Rambouillet, an All Rounder and a Quickbeam. What's curious to me though, is that on the Quickbeam (which is the exact same vintage and size as my Ram, but has a longer top tube), I'm comfortable with the seat set back farther, where I would have expected the opposite. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
I meant to say that the Ram has a *shallower* st angle. On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 7:15 PM, Don Compton dpco...@gmail.com wrote: Patrick, If your customs are 73 sta, your Ram has a shallower sta. Have you tried moving the seat forward a little on the Ram? That could improve your feel on your Ram. Just a thought. Don On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 6:20:01 PM UTC-7, Patrick Moore wrote: Interesting thoughts. I can't answer your question, merely return my own thoughts. My Ram doesn't have a short tt; it's 57 c-c on a 58 c-c st (if memory serves). I have a 9 cm stem holding a 42 cm Noodle; the Noodle sweeps back, so the setup is much like the 8 cm stems on the other Rivs holding drops with straight flats. Bar is about 3 cm below saddle, like my others. And the seat tube angle is 72, IRRC -- not hugely steeper than the 73* on my customs. I agree that what it feels like when I sit back and push small gears up a steep hill is that the front end is light. But that's the case with all my bikes in such situations, and they don't seem to want to wander to the same degree. The Sam Hill, a 56 which had an excessively long (for me) tt of 59 c-c, seemed to wander even more -- though to mitigate the long tt I had to have the bar much higher than I really wanted it. Aside: about weight carrying: The Ram actually handles heavy rear loads quite well; much better than other road bikes I've used for the purpose, and better than the custom errand Riv (which was not designed as an errand bike). It's only when the slope steepens, and when I sit back and up, that the front seems to wander. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, iamkeith keith...@gmail.com wrote: Could it be possible that the Ram wandering has more to do with a relatively short top tube length, than it does the fork rake/trail numbers? I found myself fighting the geometry a bit when I was getting mine dialed in. The short top tube, combined with a relaxed seat tube angle, *seems* to suggest a design intent of setting the seat back quite far relative to the bottom bracket and this, in turn, suggests a higher handlebar position. Very Riv-ish, basically. But this particular bike never felt right to me for some reason, when set up that way. It tracked well enough to ride no-hands (a personal litmus test), but it did sort of wander when climbing, and I found myself sitting way up on the nose of the saddle much of the time, in order to keep my weight on the front end. So I ended up slamming the seat all the way forward on the rails, going with a bit longer stem, wider noodle bar than the stock spec., and keeping the handlebars at or slightly below seat height. It feels much better when climbing and it became a bit more lively - which is something I know you've often commented on. Just musing here. I don't in any way pretend to understand the geometry of road bikes, and my experience is very limited. I'm a mountain biker. The ONLY road bikes I've owned,since the mid 70s are an RB-1, a Rambouillet, an All Rounder and a Quickbeam. What's curious to me though, is that on the Quickbeam (which is the exact same vintage and size as my Ram, but has a longer top tube), I'm comfortable with the seat set back farther, where I would have expected the opposite. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Joe (I think that's right): Thanks. I worry that while a fork with more rake will solve the wandering problem, it will also affect the turn in feeling that I like so much about the Rivendells I've ridden. I know that I didn't like the turn in feeling of the Kogswell Porteur I rode; as for the Herse, this was not as pronounced, but it was not a stellar handling bike in my catalogue. I'd not be carrying any significant front load except perhaps in low-rider-mounted panniers. I suppose the thing to do is to have Chauncey Matthews test ride the bike and tell me what he thinks more rake would do to the turning behavior. I should talk to him about the Fargo's fork, too. Or perhaps just stop worrying about it and ride ... On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:38 PM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: Patrick The handling symptoms you describe were what I was experiencing with a couple of high trail bikes that I use to carry loads, a Surly LHT (that is geometrically very similar to an Atlantis), and a Legolas. The LHT is my truck for camping, grocery shopping, and the like. The Legolas is being used as a road/dirt road Rando-style bike with a large handlebar bag and 35mm tires. I bought replacement forks for both bikes from Tom Matchak http://tommatchakcycles.blogspot.com/search/label/Replacement%20Fork adding about an inch to the rake and dropping trail from 58-62 to 42 mm. The difference was subtle but distinct. Cornering was faster, more responsive, less locked-in. Slow uphill wondering disappeared. One benefit on both bikes was a loss of toe-overlap with fenders. Tom also made a custom rack for the Legolas. It is similar to to a Nitto M12 but is wider with a light mount and wire guide to the dynamo hub. Tom did a most excellent job with great communication and workmanship. Was it worth it? I think so. The bikes ride superbly. They were great bikes before. They behave a bit better now under very specific situations, but situations that are important to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Interesting thoughts. I can't answer your question, merely return my own thoughts. My Ram doesn't have a short tt; it's 57 c-c on a 58 c-c st (if memory serves). I have a 9 cm stem holding a 42 cm Noodle; the Noodle sweeps back, so the setup is much like the 8 cm stems on the other Rivs holding drops with straight flats. Bar is about 3 cm below saddle, like my others. And the seat tube angle is 72, IRRC -- not hugely steeper than the 73* on my customs. I agree that what it feels like when I sit back and push small gears up a steep hill is that the front end is light. But that's the case with all my bikes in such situations, and they don't seem to want to wander to the same degree. The Sam Hill, a 56 which had an excessively long (for me) tt of 59 c-c, seemed to wander even more -- though to mitigate the long tt I had to have the bar much higher than I really wanted it. Aside: about weight carrying: The Ram actually handles heavy rear loads quite well; much better than other road bikes I've used for the purpose, and better than the custom errand Riv (which was not designed as an errand bike). It's only when the slope steepens, and when I sit back and up, that the front seems to wander. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, iamkeith keithhar...@gmail.com wrote: Could it be possible that the Ram wandering has more to do with a relatively short top tube length, than it does the fork rake/trail numbers? I found myself fighting the geometry a bit when I was getting mine dialed in. The short top tube, combined with a relaxed seat tube angle, *seems* to suggest a design intent of setting the seat back quite far relative to the bottom bracket and this, in turn, suggests a higher handlebar position. Very Riv-ish, basically. But this particular bike never felt right to me for some reason, when set up that way. It tracked well enough to ride no-hands (a personal litmus test), but it did sort of wander when climbing, and I found myself sitting way up on the nose of the saddle much of the time, in order to keep my weight on the front end. So I ended up slamming the seat all the way forward on the rails, going with a bit longer stem, wider noodle bar than the stock spec., and keeping the handlebars at or slightly below seat height. It feels much better when climbing and it became a bit more lively - which is something I know you've often commented on. Just musing here. I don't in any way pretend to understand the geometry of road bikes, and my experience is very limited. I'm a mountain biker. The ONLY road bikes I've owned,since the mid 70s are an RB-1, a Rambouillet, an All Rounder and a Quickbeam. What's curious to me though, is that on the Quickbeam (which is the exact same vintage and size as my Ram, but has a longer top tube), I'm comfortable with the seat set back farther, where I would have expected the opposite. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't see the place. If there was a place where Jesus had redeemed you that would be the place for you to be, but which of you can find it?” -- *Flannery O'Connor,* Wise Blood * -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Forgot to add one tidbit: that the Ram's saddle is pushed back to the same extent as on all my bikes, about 3 behind bb centerline. On a 73* bike, this is indeed slamming the Flite; but on the 72 Ram there is room to spare, though the saddle position is indeed rearward. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:19 PM, Patrick Moore bertin...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting thoughts. I can't answer your question, merely return my own thoughts. My Ram doesn't have a short tt; it's 57 c-c on a 58 c-c st (if memory serves). I have a 9 cm stem holding a 42 cm Noodle; the Noodle sweeps back, so the setup is much like the 8 cm stems on the other Rivs holding drops with straight flats. Bar is about 3 cm below saddle, like my others. And the seat tube angle is 72, IRRC -- not hugely steeper than the 73* on my customs. I agree that what it feels like when I sit back and push small gears up a steep hill is that the front end is light. But that's the case with all my bikes in such situations, and they don't seem to want to wander to the same degree. The Sam Hill, a 56 which had an excessively long (for me) tt of 59 c-c, seemed to wander even more -- though to mitigate the long tt I had to have the bar much higher than I really wanted it. Aside: about weight carrying: The Ram actually handles heavy rear loads quite well; much better than other road bikes I've used for the purpose, and better than the custom errand Riv (which was not designed as an errand bike). It's only when the slope steepens, and when I sit back and up, that the front seems to wander. On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:12 PM, iamkeith keithhar...@gmail.com wrote: Could it be possible that the Ram wandering has more to do with a relatively short top tube length, than it does the fork rake/trail numbers? I found myself fighting the geometry a bit when I was getting mine dialed in. The short top tube, combined with a relaxed seat tube angle, *seems* to suggest a design intent of setting the seat back quite far relative to the bottom bracket and this, in turn, suggests a higher handlebar position. Very Riv-ish, basically. But this particular bike never felt right to me for some reason, when set up that way. It tracked well enough to ride no-hands (a personal litmus test), but it did sort of wander when climbing, and I found myself sitting way up on the nose of the saddle much of the time, in order to keep my weight on the front end. So I ended up slamming the seat all the way forward on the rails, going with a bit longer stem, wider noodle bar than the stock spec., and keeping the handlebars at or slightly below seat height. It feels much better when climbing and it became a bit more lively - which is something I know you've often commented on. Just musing here. I don't in any way pretend to understand the geometry of road bikes, and my experience is very limited. I'm a mountain biker. The ONLY road bikes I've owned,since the mid 70s are an RB-1, a Rambouillet, an All Rounder and a Quickbeam. What's curious to me though, is that on the Quickbeam (which is the exact same vintage and size as my Ram, but has a longer top tube), I'm comfortable with the seat set back farther, where I would have expected the opposite. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, and letters that get interviews. By-the-hour resume and LinkedIn coaching. Other professional writing services. http://www.resumespecialties.com/ www.linkedin.com/in/patrickmooreresumespec/ Patrick Moore Alburquerque, Nouvelle Mexique, Vereinigte Staaten * * Where you come from is gone, where you thought you were going to never was there, and where you are is no good unless you can get away from it. Where is there a place for you to be? No place.* * Nothing outside you can give you any place, he said. You needn't to look at the sky because it's not going to open up and show no place behind it. You needn't to search for any hole in the ground to look through into somewhere else. You can't go neither forwards nor backwards into your daddy's time nor your children's if you have them. In yourself right now is all the place you've got. If there was any Fall, look there, if there was any Redemption, look there, and if you expect any Judgment, look there, because they all three will have to be in your time and your body and where in your time and your body can they be?* * Where in your time and your body has Jesus redeemed you? he cried. Show me where because I don't
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Patrick The handling symptoms you describe were what I was experiencing with a couple of high trail bikes that I use to carry loads, a Surly LHT (that is geometrically very similar to an Atlantis), and a Legolas. The LHT is my truck for camping, grocery shopping, and the like. The Legolas is being used as a road/dirt road Rando-style bike with a large handlebar bag and 35mm tires. I bought replacement forks for both bikes from Tom Matchak http://tommatchakcycles.blogspot.com/search/label/Replacement%20Fork adding about an inch to the rake and dropping trail from 58-62 to 42 mm. The difference was subtle but distinct. Cornering was faster, more responsive, less locked-in. Slow uphill wondering disappeared. One benefit on both bikes was a loss of toe-overlap with fenders. Tom also made a custom rack for the Legolas. It is similar to to a Nitto M12 but is wider with a light mount and wire guide to the dynamo hub. Tom did a most excellent job with great communication and workmanship. Was it worth it? I think so. The bikes ride superbly. They were great bikes before. They behave a bit better now under very specific situations, but situations that are important to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
What are his forks going for? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:38 PM, 'Mojo' via RBW Owners Bunch rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com wrote: Patrick The handling symptoms you describe were what I was experiencing with a couple of high trail bikes that I use to carry loads, a Surly LHT (that is geometrically very similar to an Atlantis), and a Legolas. The LHT is my truck for camping, grocery shopping, and the like. The Legolas is being used as a road/dirt road Rando-style bike with a large handlebar bag and 35mm tires. I bought replacement forks for both bikes from Tom Matchak http://tommatchakcycles.blogspot.com/search/label/Replacement%20Fork adding about an inch to the rake and dropping trail from 58-62 to 42 mm. The difference was subtle but distinct. Cornering was faster, more responsive, less locked-in. Slow uphill wondering disappeared. One benefit on both bikes was a loss of toe-overlap with fenders. Tom also made a custom rack for the Legolas. It is similar to to a Nitto M12 but is wider with a light mount and wire guide to the dynamo hub. Tom did a most excellent job with great communication and workmanship. Was it worth it? I think so. The bikes ride superbly. They were great bikes before. They behave a bit better now under very specific situations, but situations that are important to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Pictures of the new forks LHT: https://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/11805914224/ Legolas: https://www.flickr.com/photos/79695460@N00/10828931806/ On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 8:38:46 PM UTC-6, Mojo wrote: Patrick The handling symptoms you describe were what I was experiencing with a couple of high trail bikes that I use to carry loads, a Surly LHT (that is geometrically very similar to an Atlantis), and a Legolas. The LHT is my truck for camping, grocery shopping, and the like. The Legolas is being used as a road/dirt road Rando-style bike with a large handlebar bag and 35mm tires. I bought replacement forks for both bikes from Tom Matchak http://tommatchakcycles.blogspot.com/search/label/Replacement%20Fork adding about an inch to the rake and dropping trail from 58-62 to 42 mm. The difference was subtle but distinct. Cornering was faster, more responsive, less locked-in. Slow uphill wondering disappeared. One benefit on both bikes was a loss of toe-overlap with fenders. Tom also made a custom rack for the Legolas. It is similar to to a Nitto M12 but is wider with a light mount and wire guide to the dynamo hub. Tom did a most excellent job with great communication and workmanship. Was it worth it? I think so. The bikes ride superbly. They were great bikes before. They behave a bit better now under very specific situations, but situations that are important to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
RCOG? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, justinaug...@gmail.com wrote: I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
The Rawland group On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:53:02 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: RCOG? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, justin...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com javascript:. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com javascript:. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
O, that group... :-) I asked as I wouldn't mind putting a LT fork on my Quickbeam. It's employed as my errand/townie bike, and carries a front load most of the time during said duties. LT would probably be pretty nice on it, but I've survived the stock geometry so far :-) On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Kieran J kjo...@gmail.com wrote: The Rawland group On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:53:02 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: RCOG? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, justin...@gmail.com wrote: I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Mojo has nicely summed up my experience. I also had Tom Matchak make a fork for my Atlantis. My situation was the same: bit of wandering with front load but that's where I like my stuff. Wandering gone. I rode the bike for 6-7 years before changing the fork, so it wasn't a significant problem. It's not a religious experience, more like smoothing out a minor irritation. dougP On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 7:38:46 PM UTC-7, Mojo wrote: Patrick The handling symptoms you describe were what I was experiencing with a couple of high trail bikes that I use to carry loads, a Surly LHT (that is geometrically very similar to an Atlantis), and a Legolas. The LHT is my truck for camping, grocery shopping, and the like. The Legolas is being used as a road/dirt road Rando-style bike with a large handlebar bag and 35mm tires. I bought replacement forks for both bikes from Tom Matchak http://tommatchakcycles.blogspot.com/search/label/Replacement%20Fork adding about an inch to the rake and dropping trail from 58-62 to 42 mm. The difference was subtle but distinct. Cornering was faster, more responsive, less locked-in. Slow uphill wondering disappeared. One benefit on both bikes was a loss of toe-overlap with fenders. Tom also made a custom rack for the Legolas. It is similar to to a Nitto M12 but is wider with a light mount and wire guide to the dynamo hub. Tom did a most excellent job with great communication and workmanship. Was it worth it? I think so. The bikes ride superbly. They were great bikes before. They behave a bit better now under very specific situations, but situations that are important to me. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
I'll only approve it if the paint match is PERFECT. (I hope this isn't referring to the orange one.) -Original Message- From: cyclotourist <cyclotour...@gmail.com>Sent: Oct 28, 2014 8:55 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch <RBW-OWNERS-BUNCH@GOOGLEGROUPS.COM>Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram? O, that group... :-)I asked as I wouldn't mind putting a LT fork on my Quickbeam. It's employedas my errand/townie bike, and carries a front load most of the time duringsaid duties. LT would probably be pretty nice on it, but I've survived thestock geometry so far :-)On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Kieran J <kjo...@gmail.com>wrote: The Rawland group On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:53:02 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: RCOG? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, <justin...@gmail.com>wrote: I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace "it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.-- Cheers,DavidMember, Supreme Council of Cyberspace"it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride." - Seth Vidal-- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "RBW Owners Bunch" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch.For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram?
Thanks for watching out for me! https://flic.kr/p/oZdeh6 Getting most of my recent miles! On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 9:22 PM, James Warren jimcwar...@earthlink.net wrote: I'll only approve it if the paint match is PERFECT. (I hope this isn't referring to the orange one.) -Original Message- From: cyclotourist Sent: Oct 28, 2014 8:55 PM To: RBW Owners Bunch Subject: Re: [RBW] Re: Lower trail fork for Ram? O, that group... :-) I asked as I wouldn't mind putting a LT fork on my Quickbeam. It's employed as my errand/townie bike, and carries a front load most of the time during said duties. LT would probably be pretty nice on it, but I've survived the stock geometry so far :-) On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 8:02 PM, Kieran J wrote: The Rawland group On Tuesday, October 28, 2014 10:53:02 PM UTC-4, cyclot...@gmail.com wrote: RCOG? On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM, wrote: I emailed him - he said he's not making forks only right now. The RCOG just did a special batch order from Jeff Lyon for replacement forms from Jeff Lyon. You can see the pricing over there. -J -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bun...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owne...@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Cheers, David Member, Supreme Council of Cyberspace it isn't a contest. Just enjoy the ride. - Seth Vidal -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
