Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On 06/04/2015 06:21 AM, Richard wrote: Its my primary bike now. If I could only have one, the Lyon would be it. Although it took me awhile to get used to its front-end geometry, now I prefer the handling. The 42mm tires are the icing on the cake. Perhaps you should post a photo of it, and tell us a bit about the bike. Actually, the evolution of your cycling preferences would make an interesting tale, especially for the RBW audience. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
Its my primary bike now. If I could only have one, the Lyon would be it. Although it took me awhile to get used to its front-end geometry, now I prefer the handling. The 42mm tires are the icing on the cake. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
OK, I will Steve. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On 06/03/2015 09:21 AM, Richard wrote: I own a Boulder RS and a Rivendell Homer Hilsen. They are very different bikes. The Boulder has skinny lightweight tubing (7-4-7 tt) and planes very well for me. The Hilsen has OS tubing with thicker diameters, and is more difficult to plane. I use the Hilsen, fitted with 40mm tires, primarily on gravel/ dirt roads It's a very durable bike and will certainly outlive me. Durability seems very important to Grant and his frames reflect that. The bottom line is I enjoy both bikes and each has it's place. For fast asphalt riding I use the Boulder Road Sport. I only wish it could fit wider tires 32mm. On the other hand, you have a very nice Jeff Lyon that's running 42mm 650B tires... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
That is the best answer to the question that I've read, by far. On Thu, May 28, 2015 at 12:54 PM, William deRosset wmderos...@gmail.com wrote: Dear Sam, Warning: I helped design one of the bikes discussed below (the Road Sport), and tested another (the Allroad) during its prototyping. The design philosophies of their base machines are pretty different. Summary: Rivbike and Boulder have different use targets. They approach fitting somewhat differently. They approach 'versatility' from opposite perspectives. Grant's machines value interchangeability with standard bits and reconfigurability. Mike's bikes are closely optimized for a specific set of purposes. Both can be excellent, and my example machines have all brought me joy. I know which I prefer (my Heron lives in Vermont on long-term loan to my trailer-towing brother, and my Allroad went on the Wed. Night Lights ride with me then came to work this morning), but it took a decade of really conscious experimentation to dial it in. If they fit and are set up well, either is wonderful. I own a Heron Touring bike, and it is a stout-tube, O/S, silver-brazed lugged machine. It is designed in the British rear-loading tradition, and informed by Grant Petersen's experience with Bridgestone. It is a versatile bike, because it is easily reconfigured and all fittings are standard. There are some non-optimized things about it--heavy tube spec for loaded use is less sprightly when not loaded, the fender clearances aren't consistent, it has moderate TCO, no bosses on bridges, no provision to run wires around on it, and--for me--it sure doesn't play nicely with a light to moderate front load. It is a great commuting and errand machine. It tows a trailer well, doesn't complain if you get two gallons of milk and just toss them in a saddlebag, and is a smooth and generally well-behaved bike. It isn't lively (smooth, comfortable, sure. Not lively). The aesthetic of the lugs and the bike without accessories was pretty important to the designer, and there is a carefully cultivated air about their ad copy, Grant's writing about his bikes, and the resulting aesthetic. I also own a couple of Boulder Bikes. Because Mike builds bikes for different applications, I'll talk about both in a bit of detail. Both are TIG welded, painted simple colors, and, while he clearly cares about how his bikes look, they're a bit more functionally-oriented. One is a fat-tire road bike--the Road Sport model. It is basically the road-racing bike I wanted when I was seventeen, but updated for my middle-aged power output and optimized for the wide tubulars I prefer for that kind of bike. All fittings are modern-ish standard. I could mount fenders (the clearance is exactly right, and the bridge locations are consistent), but it really isn't designed with them in mind (short front center, no eyelets, no bosses on the bridges). It is a fair-weather day-riding road bike, and can be raced in CX and on the road without modification. The other is an Allroad. It is designed as an integrated unit--with a parts spec in mind, with specialized braze-ons and fitted bits not easily sourced from Excel Sports or my local bike shop (650B tires, braze-on centerpull brakes, decaleur/small front rack, etc), and it was designed as a no-compromise all-surface, all-weather sporting bike--but not constrained to road-racing rules. It is designed to have fenders permanently mounted. It is designed for a light front load. It is designed for permanently-installed generator-powered lighting. It is designed to be exceptionally comfortable and efficient for non-racing sporting use, and with particular attention to my performance in the hills, up and down. That design brief, what that bike is refined and optimized to do, limits its versatility--It doesn't tow trailers very happily. It really needs its handlebar bag and a couple of pounds of load to handle the way I want a bike to handle. I couldn't race it without an hour of removing lighting, wiring, fenders, adjusting gearing, and replacing tires. I couldn't conveniently ride it fixed. That particular bike isn't set up for camping. However, it happens to also do an awful lot of what I actually regularly do on a bike exceptionally well--year-round suburban commuting, skying around off-pavement and occasionally offroad in the hills in all weather, long-distance non-racing sporting rides (where I find a big handlebar bag effectively mandatory--feed bag, wardrobe, and map-holder, all accessible on the move). I pull a trailer about 5mi/month, and go camping a couple times a year. I don't race much, and I have a bike that races well without modification. I live with those limitations when I bump up against them, which is a small fraction of my riding time. The Heron does all of those things as well (except carry a light front load only--why I went down the front-loading bike route to begin with), with
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
Also check out Brian Chapman in Rhode Island (Chapman Cycles)! His attention to detail is top-tier, no doubt. And he's very experienced in the 650B space. Anton On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 6:01:40 PM UTC-4, Matthew J wrote: Weigle is pretty pricey but I have become pretty adept at justifying bike purchases. Anything Peter makes is worth the price. My understanding is his wait list is very long, however. I suspect most people who get Weigles are buying their second or third (or even more) customs. Johnny Coast in Brooklyn and Royal H in Boston are good young builders with Randos in their portfolio. May want to start with them or someone similar while getting on Peter's list. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
chapmancycles.com great guy to work with and can order parts, assemble and ship the complete bike too Want to place your ad here? Advertise on United Online http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/5567d77c10969577b2175st03duc -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
I am well aware of the Herse brand. (No longer Kone's btw.). Mike Kone and colleagues are the only bicycle builders legally able to make a bicycle under the Herse brand. Not sure the importance of who owns the name. That being said a Herse will not ride inherently more plush than a Boulder so I was wondering if there was another brand he is involved in. Right now all I know of is Boulder. No. As I said, Herse is where you go for the fancy lugs and other unique add ons which Boulder avoids to keep prices modest. I might be misunderstanding the use of the word plush though which is what prompted the my question in the first place. Perhaps I am an odd ball, but I find riding bikes with light flexible tubes and fat supple 650B tires plush, compared with say, a heavy thick tubed bike meant to move stuff. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On 05/28/2015 08:56 AM, Matthew J wrote: I am well aware of the Herse brand. (No longer Kone's btw.). Mike Kone and colleagues are the only bicycle builders legally able to make a bicycle under the Herse brand. Not sure the importance of who owns the name. That being said a Herse will not ride inherently more plush than a Boulder so I was wondering if there was another brand he is involved in. Right now all I know of is Boulder. No. As I said, Herse is where you go for the fancy lugs and other unique add ons which Boulder avoids to keep prices modest. I might be misunderstanding the use of the word plush though which is what prompted the my question in the first place. Perhaps I am an odd ball, but I find riding bikes with light flexible tubes and fat supple 650B tires plush, compared with say, a heavy thick tubed bike meant to move stuff. You are not an odd ball, but it is true that there is little difference in ride between a light-tubed 650B Boulder and a light-tubed 650B Herse. Both would be plush if by plush you mean silky riding; however there is another definition of plush: *rich, luxurious and expensive* and there is little doubt which the winner is by that standard. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
I'm planning on replacing the Hilsen after PBP with a dedicated rando bike. I'm thinking I'd like a lighter tubed, livelier bike for brevets. I've considered both Boulder and Herse, but since I'm in CT I'm going to go talk to Peter Weigle, and hopefully ride one of his 650B, low trail bikes, since I've never ridden one. I just know that at the end of last season, with peak fitness, I rode a 200k on my Roadeo in KC and finished more than an hour faster than any 200k I've done in the past 1 1/2 years so it makes me think that the bike has at least something to do with it. Weigle is pretty pricey but I have become pretty adept at justifying bike purchases. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On 05/27/2015 04:29 PM, Clayton.sf wrote: What is the other brand mike has? Are you referring to Herse? That is indeed another Mike Kone brand. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On 05/27/2015 09:36 PM, Tony DeFilippo wrote: My dream bike these days is a front loader, like the boulder, with a rack system that takes a big Handlebar bag and removable low riders for front panniers, and maybe a light rear rack for the sleeping bag. And puffy tires. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/setting-our-own-trends/ https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fjanheine.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F05%2F13%2Fsetting-our-own-trends%2Fsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNHXUPpioBZUGUf2_f-l-17OPxQR0A I did love that particular post. Having owned a Porsche 911 for a couple year's Jan's reference really clicked for me and I finally 'got' the difference at least from an intent perspective. I haven't ridden a Boulder, Weigle, MAP or other bike at all myself. I did really enjoy my demo ride on one of Rob Perk's OAC Rambler http://store.oceanaircycles.com/products/rambler, which is designed to be a fully integrated sport tour/rando/town frame and it was one of the most effortless and enjoyable rides I've ever had. The Rawland rSOGN I owned briefly never clicked for me but I think that's largely because the size was wrong. The Saluki and Bombadil in my garage now are without a doubt my current favorites. Interesting point about the tinkerer's frameset vs something more purpose built. Although Jan's adventures in BQ suggest a pretty wide application of that same frame/component concept. The Rambler kind of straddles that line and certainly any Riv can be built up and left alone as well. In fact that is my intention w/ my Saluki as the primary, upright, racked commuter bike. But there is always the option to completely re-imagine it. In a one or two bike situation that seems to me to be a huge advantage over the Boulder. Once you get into the 3+ bikes however... :) The integrated, purpose-built bike can be quite versatile -- within limits. If you can stay within those limits, you can do a very great deal with one at optimum or near optimum performance. But there are limits: you can't just load one up the way people do with a Rivendell, paying virtually no attention at all to how much weight you're carrying; and you can't just put that weight anywhere you like, you've got to put it where the bike was designed to carry it. As for re-imagining one, that would be a bit like re-imagining a cat as a goat: remotely possible, but you really wouldn't want to go there and nobody would be happy with the outcome. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
It's all the above, in balance with the rider's strength, flexibility, baggage, and the road/trail! The original response by Matthew J rings true. I ride a green Quickbeam, and an early 1970's Gitane. The Rivendell has strong English roots, and the Gitane is, well, French, but is a road bike that has a lot in common with Rivendell, with lighter tubes (Reynolds 531db) and less well designed clearances. The Rivendell's tubes are oversize and stiff, which gives me confidence with heavy loads (my weight too) and bumpy roads. It sails along. However, the lighter, narrower tubes of the Gitane, and I am sure modern frames along those lines, really do dance with your legs, and that's a good thing. Otherwise, I can't dance. My dream bike these days is a front loader, like the boulder, with a rack system that takes a big Handlebar bag and removable low riders for front panniers, and maybe a light rear rack for the sleeping bag. And puffy tires. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/setting-our-own-trends/ Boulder Bikes is inspired by Bicycle Quarterly's research. They camp lighter and don't ride around quite so many thorns as Rivendell, and that influences your tire choices. But supple tires are the bee's knees. A big concept in bike philosophy is the divide between bike as a kit of parts to modify modify modify, or bike as integrated and optimized machine. Rivbike is in the kit side, and Boulder Bikes might be a bit more toward the integrated and optimized side, but maybe a few thousand dollars below the level of a constructeur like Mr. Weigle. On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 5:00 PM, Michael Hechmer mhech...@gmail.com wrote: Are you sure it's the frame and not the wheels tires? True frames have different ride characteristics but so do wheels tires. Michael On Wednesday, May 27, 2015 at 3:43:51 PM UTC-4, Lungimsam wrote: So, what are the similarities/diffs between your Boulders and Rivbikes? Is there a characteristic ride quality of each that stands out? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Bill Gibson Tempe, Arizona, USA -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
My dream bike these days is a front loader, like the boulder, with a rack system that takes a big Handlebar bag and removable low riders for front panniers, and maybe a light rear rack for the sleeping bag. And puffy tires. https://janheine.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/setting-our-own-trends/ https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fjanheine.wordpress.com%2F2014%2F05%2F13%2Fsetting-our-own-trends%2Fsa=Dsntz=1usg=AFQjCNHXUPpioBZUGUf2_f-l-17OPxQR0A I did love that particular post. Having owned a Porsche 911 for a couple year's Jan's reference really clicked for me and I finally 'got' the difference at least from an intent perspective. I haven't ridden a Boulder, Weigle, MAP or other bike at all myself. I did really enjoy my demo ride on one of Rob Perk's OAC Rambler http://store.oceanaircycles.com/products/rambler, which is designed to be a fully integrated sport tour/rando/town frame and it was one of the most effortless and enjoyable rides I've ever had. The Rawland rSOGN I owned briefly never clicked for me but I think that's largely because the size was wrong. The Saluki and Bombadil in my garage now are without a doubt my current favorites. Interesting point about the tinkerer's frameset vs something more purpose built. Although Jan's adventures in BQ suggest a pretty wide application of that same frame/component concept. The Rambler kind of straddles that line and certainly any Riv can be built up and left alone as well. In fact that is my intention w/ my Saluki as the primary, upright, racked commuter bike. But there is always the option to completely re-imagine it. In a one or two bike situation that seems to me to be a huge advantage over the Boulder. Once you get into the 3+ bikes however... :) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
I am well aware of the Herse brand. (No longer Kone's btw.). That being said a Herse will not ride inherently more plush than a Boulder so I was wondering if there was another brand he is involved in. Right now all I know of is Boulder. I might be misunderstanding the use of the word plush though which is what prompted the my question in the first place. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
That is indeed another Mike Kone brand. Indeed squared! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
Weigle is pretty pricey but I have become pretty adept at justifying bike purchases. Anything Peter makes is worth the price. My understanding is his wait list is very long, however. I suspect most people who get Weigles are buying their second or third (or even more) customs. Johnny Coast in Brooklyn and Royal H in Boston are good young builders with Randos in their portfolio. May want to start with them or someone similar while getting on Peter's list. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
Re: [RBW] Re: Your Boulder and Rivendell compare/contrast.
On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote: That is indeed another Mike Kone brand. Indeed squared! Well, technically Compass's brand now https://janheine.wordpress.com/2012/01/25/coming-full-circle-with-rene-herse/, which Mike Kone licenses for his bikes. Not that it really matters. Best, joe broach pdx or On Wed, May 27, 2015 at 2:57 PM, Matthew J matthewj...@gmail.com wrote: That is indeed another Mike Kone brand. Indeed squared! -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
