Re: [RDA-L] RDA name authorities |c (Fictitious character)
Surely we include fictitious character for these names? Do we really want them to look like real people? Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D’Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 2:37 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] RDA name authorities |c (Fictitious character) This access point for Wiggin, Ender was first established by BYU *without* a qualifier, following LC's instructions only to add qualifier to these access point if there was a conflict. Somebody at BL took it upon themselves to add the qualifier (without the appropriate subfield coding, as you note). I do not think it was appropriate to change this access point, since there was no conflict at the time it was established and there is no new conflict now. (Subsequently somebody at Washington corrected the subfield coding). The access point for Wiggin, Peter was first established by BYU *with* a qualifier (correctly coded) because there *was* a conflict with another Peter Wiggin. Bob Robert L. Maxwell Ancient Languages and Special Collections Cataloger 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of FOGLER, PATRICIA A GS-11 USAF AETC AUL/LTSC Sent: Tuesday, October 08, 2013 8:07 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] RDA name authorities |c (Fictitious character) I'm working through today's name authority changes wondering why I'm finding: ‡a Wiggin, Ender (Fictitious character) but ‡a Wiggin, Peter ‡c (Fictitious character) Is this simply two different agencies interpreting the rules differently? We don't catalog a lot of fiction here so I've not much experience with fictitious characters. I do edit our base library records occasionally they have a number of Card's titles. I'd send this to LChelp4rda but I am guessing they are not back at work as yet. //SIGNED// Patricia Fogler Chief, Cataloging Section (AUL/LTSC) Muir S. Fairchild Research Information Center DSN 493-2135 Comm (334) 953-2135
Re: [RDA-L] Dagger symbol
Please explain why this is necessary to transcribe? At some point, every author will be dead so what's the point of making note of it now? I really don't see that this is vital information for the identification of the manifestation/expression. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of James Weinheimer Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2013 3:46 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Dagger symbol On 9/12/2013 10:13 PM, Schutt, Misha wrote: snip A Friday hypothetical question in the same general area: in Soviet books, if the author is deceased, the name on the title page is generally enclosed in a box. (For this reason, business travelers in Russia are advised that it's offensive to draw a box around someone's name for emphasis, say, in an appointment book or meeting notes, since in effect you'd be wishing them dead.) Would that be reflected in a note somehow, or simply disregarded as extraneous graphic material? /snip See in the Slavic Cataloging Manual: http://www.indiana.edu/~libslav/slavcatman/box.html -- James Weinheimer weinheimer.ji...@gmail.com First Thus http://catalogingmatters.blogspot.com/ First Thus Facebook Page https://www.facebook.com/FirstThus Cooperative Cataloging Rules http://sites.google.com/site/opencatalogingrules/ Cataloging Matters Podcasts http://blog.jweinheimer.net/p/cataloging-matters-podcasts.html
Re: [RDA-L] Title with embedded square brackets
RDA is pretty clear about which elements are to be transcribed, so yes, S-H-E would be the title proper. I'd add another title with She so people can actually find it. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Joan Wang Sent: Friday, August 30, 2013 8:50 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Title with embedded square brackets I agree with Adam. RDA 1.7.3 seems to be the most relevant rule we can find. If the square brackets used in the word mean a correction or an emphasis, it is better to keep them. But if punctuations are used more like a decoration. For example, she is printed as S-H-E in a title page. Should we consider dash as a punctuation and keep them? Have fun :-) Thanks, Joan Wang Illinois Heartland Library System On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 5:16 PM, Adam L. Schiff asch...@u.washington.edumailto:asch...@u.washington.edu wrote: Transcribe square brackets found on the source of information used. 2.3.1.4 Transcribe a title as it appears on the source of information (see 1.7). 1.7.3 Transcribe punctuation as it appears on the source except for the following situations: a) omit punctuation that separates data to be recorded as one element from data to be recorded as a different element b) omit punctuation that separates data to be recorded as one element from data recorded as a second or subsequent instance of the same element. Since brackets are marks of punctuation (see a nice list at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punctuation), you transcribe them as found. Adam ** * Adam L. Schiff * * Principal Cataloger* * University of Washington Libraries * * Box 352900 * * Seattle, WA 98195-2900 * * (206) 543-8409tel:%28206%29%20543-8409 * * (206) 685-8782tel:%28206%29%20685-8782 fax * * asch...@u.washington.edumailto:asch...@u.washington.edu * ** On Thu, 29 Aug 2013, Billie Hackney wrote: Date: Thu, 29 Aug 2013 13:16:24 -0700 From: Billie Hackney bhack...@getty.edumailto:bhack...@getty.edu Reply-To: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] Title with embedded square brackets I have a print title with a set of square brackets embedded in the first word on the piece itself. Here are the first few words of the title: D[a]edalus, my father's horse, taken from the mill I have looked in every place in the RDA Toolkit that I can think of, and every place listed under square brackets in the index, and cannot find instructions. I am aware that in RDA, you're supposed to describe what you see, so I assume the 245b should be exactly as I see it: D[a]edalus, my father's horse, taken from the mill and I can add a 246 with: Daedalus, my father's horse, taken from the mill Is this correct? Billie Hackney Senior Monograph Cataloger Getty Research Institute 1200 Getty Center Drive, Suite 1100 Los Angeles, CA 90049-1688 (310) 440-7616tel:%28310%29%20440-7616 bhack...@getty.edumailto:bhack...@getty.edu ^^ Adam L. Schiff Principal Cataloger University of Washington Libraries Box 352900 Seattle, WA 98195-2900 (206) 543-8409tel:%28206%29%20543-8409 (206) 685-8782tel:%28206%29%20685-8782 fax asch...@u.washington.edumailto:asch...@u.washington.edu http://faculty.washington.edu/~aschiff ~~ -- Zhonghong (Joan) Wang, Ph.D. Cataloger -- CMC Illinois Heartland Library System (Edwardsville Office) 6725 Goshen Road Edwardsville, IL 62025 618.656.3216x409 618.656.9401Fax
Re: [RDA-L] 264 question
Per Appendix B.1 state names are included in the “approved” abbreviations. And the LC-PCC Policy statement at 1.10.2 says local institutions can establish their own guidelines for many things, including abbreviations. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D’Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Adam Schiff Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Oops, I meant if you are supplying a place, you wouldn’t use a postal abbreviation. From: Adam Schiffmailto:asch...@u.washington.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 8:39 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question It would not be correct to use “SC” in your place of publication. If you are supplying a date, you wouldn’t use a postal abbreviation. Either [Charleston] or [Charleston, South Carolina]. Adam Schiff From: Patricia Mary Gierkemailto:gier...@dut.ac.za Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:21 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Hi Mary I agree wholeheartedly – ever SO grateful for this list ! And, if I may say so, I think your final decision is SPOT ON! I believe we are encouraged to SUPPLY a place of publication or probable place whenever possible….which is what you’ve done. And you obviously KNOW that the book is self-published because it is stated somewhere. Bravo! Trish Gierke (Cataloguer) Durban University of Technology Library PO Box 1334 Durban 4000 South Africa gier...@dut.ac.zamailto:gier...@dut.ac.za +27-31-3735458 From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Saunders, Mary Sent: 03 July 2013 01:45 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Thanks to all who responded. I have decided to make a single 264 1 [Charleston, SC?] : $b Author’s name, $c [2013] As I feel my way along with RDA, I am truly grateful for this discussion list! Mary Saunders, Cataloger Maine State Library 64 State House Station Augusta, ME 04333-0064 mary.saund...@maine.govmailto:mary.saund...@maine.gov 207-287-5620 207-287-5638 FAX This e-mail is subject to our Disclaimer, to view click http://www.dut.ac.za/disclaimer;
Re: [RDA-L] 264 question
But in this case, there’s nothing to transcribe. The place of publication is cataloger supplied. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D’Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Robert Maxwell Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 11:02 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Appendix B does not apply to “transcribed elements” (see B.4). The Pubication Statement is a transcribed element (see 2.8.1.4). Also B.4 instructs “If supplying all or part of a transcribed element, generally do not abbreviate words.” Bob Robert L. Maxwell Head, Special Collections and Formats Catalog Dept. 6728 Harold B. Lee Library Brigham Young University Provo, UT 84602 (801)422-5568 We should set an example for all the world, rather than confine ourselves to the course which has been heretofore pursued--Eliza R. Snow, 1842. From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Patricia Sayre-McCoy Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 9:52 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Per Appendix B.1 state names are included in the “approved” abbreviations. And the LC-PCC Policy statement at 1.10.2 says local institutions can establish their own guidelines for many things, including abbreviations. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D’Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edumailto:p...@uchicago.edu From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca]mailto:[mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Adam Schiff Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 10:43 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.camailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Oops, I meant if you are supplying a place, you wouldn’t use a postal abbreviation. From: Adam Schiffmailto:asch...@u.washington.edu Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 8:39 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question It would not be correct to use “SC” in your place of publication. If you are supplying a date, you wouldn’t use a postal abbreviation. Either [Charleston] or [Charleston, South Carolina]. Adam Schiff From: Patricia Mary Gierkemailto:gier...@dut.ac.za Sent: Wednesday, July 03, 2013 7:21 AM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Hi Mary I agree wholeheartedly – ever SO grateful for this list ! And, if I may say so, I think your final decision is SPOT ON! I believe we are encouraged to SUPPLY a place of publication or probable place whenever possible….which is what you’ve done. And you obviously KNOW that the book is self-published because it is stated somewhere. Bravo! Trish Gierke (Cataloguer) Durban University of Technology Library PO Box 1334 Durban 4000 South Africa gier...@dut.ac.zamailto:gier...@dut.ac.za +27-31-3735458 From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Saunders, Mary Sent: 03 July 2013 01:45 PM To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CAmailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 264 question Thanks to all who responded. I have decided to make a single 264 1 [Charleston, SC?] : $b Author’s name, $c [2013] As I feel my way along with RDA, I am truly grateful for this discussion list! Mary Saunders, Cataloger Maine State Library 64 State House Station Augusta, ME 04333-0064 mary.saund...@maine.govmailto:mary.saund...@maine.gov 207-287-5620 207-287-5638 FAX This e-mail is subject to our Disclaimer, to view click http://www.dut.ac.za/disclaimer;
Re: [RDA-L] Publication date including month or exact date: examples?
I have cataloged a number of podcasts and have included the full date in the publication date. Some OCLC examples are no. 843384205, no. 845382411, and no. 842903239. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Heidrun Wiesenmüller Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 1:32 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Publication date including month or exact date: examples? In 2.8.6.3 (Recording date of publication) there is an example May 2000. This shows that not only the year, but also the month and presumably even the exact date of publication is to be recorded in this element, if it is given in the source of information. I'd like to see some real live examples for this in actual cataloging. Has somebody already come across such a case and could point me to the corresponding title record? Thanks, Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
Re: [RDA-L] 2.3.1.6 Introductory words
John, our thoughts are with you. May this situation be quickly and safely resolved. Keep your head down. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of John Hostage Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 1:40 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] 2.3.1.6 Introductory words Heidrun, I wouldn't consider Three books of to be an introductory phrase. Here begynneth a lytell treatyse called might more easily be considered such a phrase, but I don't think it was intended by RDA 2.3.1.6. LCCN 22008862 was cataloged in 1922, so it's not an example of AACR2 cataloging, much less RDA. Consider examples in 6.2.3.5, 18.5.1.3 (printer), 21.5.1.3 (Worde), where such phrases are included in titles proper. However, such phrases may be omitted from the *preferred title* if the work has become known by a shorter title (6.2.2.4). That's what was done in determining the uniform title on 22008862. Sheltering in place in Watertown, Massachusetts ... -- John Hostage Authorities and Database Integrity Librarian Harvard Library--Information and Technical Services Langdell Hall 194 Harvard Law School Library Cambridge, MA 02138 host...@law.harvard.edu +(1)(617) 495-3974 (voice) +(1)(617) 496-4409 (fax) From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] on behalf of Heidrun Wiesenmüller [wiesenmuel...@hdm-stuttgart.de] Sent: Friday, April 19, 2013 13:53 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: [RDA-L] 2.3.1.6 Introductory words The examples given in 2.3.1.6 for introductory words (not to be transcribed as part of a title) all seem to be from the area of audiovisual and electronic resources (e.g. Disney presents). I can see that the rule can be useful here. But I'm not so sure about cases like these: http://lccn.loc.gov/22008862 http://lccn.loc.gov/92033147 I feel that Here begynneth a lytell treatyse called and Three books of are also introductory words, and therefore would have to be left out of the title proper of the manifestation, if we take RDA seriously. Mind, I'm not saying that this would be a good idea. And I'm very happy to see that LC hasn't done it, although I find it's not a new rule (see AACR2 1.1.B1). But now I wonder: Is this due to the fact that LC doesn't use RDA (and before that, AACR2) for early printed books in the first place? LC-PCC PS for 0.2 says they use DCRM(B) instead, which unfortunately I don't know much about. Or am I on the wrong track altogether, and these phrases are no introductory words at all? Heidrun -- - Prof. Heidrun Wiesenmueller M.A. Stuttgart Media University Faculty of Information and Communication Wolframstr. 32, 70191 Stuttgart, Germany www.hdm-stuttgart.de/bi
Re: [RDA-L] Publication date/copyright date
I believe the first solution is exactly what RDA 264 was designed for. I think it's far more confusing to have only the 2014 date when we know darn well we got the book in 2013. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D’Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Goldfarb, Kathie Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 8:48 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: [RDA-L] Publication date/copyright date The book I have in hand lists a copyright date of 2014. Should the 264 be: 264 1 ...$c [2013] 264 4 4a @2014 Or 264 1 $c [2014] No 264 4 I am leaning toward the second, since many libraries may receive this book in 2014, and the first option might be confusing, since they would not know for a fact that some were distributed in 2013. Comments? Thanks kathie Kathleen Goldfarb Technical Services Librarian College of the Mainland Texas City, TX 77539 409 933 8202 Please consider whether it is necessary to print this email.
Re: [RDA-L] Publication date/copyright date
But what about the cataloger who received the book in 2013? And the patron who used it last week but it can't be this book because this book hasn't been published yet? I makes less sense to pretend that the book wasn't published for 8 months than to include a bracked publication date and make it clear when the book was actually available. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Lisa Hatt Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2013 1:45 PM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] Publication date/copyright date On 3/28/2013 8:07 AM, Will Evans ev...@bostonathenaeum.org wrote: Rules or no rules, shouldn't the record reflect the reality of the situation?! 264#1 $c [2013] 264#4 $c (c) 2014 500 Publication received by cataloging agency in 2013. $ MBAt I'm puzzled by this approach, which seems to second-guess the publisher's intent. Unless there's something we haven't been told, I don't get the idea that the resource itself makes any statement about having been published in 2013. If a cataloger first encountered this item in 2014+, they'd have no reason to believe it was published in anything other than 2014, because that's the date printed on the thing itself, yes? (I know there are reverse cases where a later ed. such as trade pbk. does not actually state its publication date and simply retains the copyright of the first hc ed., resulting in situations like [2002], c2001 in AACR2. But in that case other information supports the choice of supplied date, I think.) Rare books might be different, and I am no RDA guru, but my feeling would be to go with what Deborah recommended. -- Lisa Hatt Cataloging De Anza College Library 408-864-8459
Re: [RDA-L] When will RDA truly arrive? Will it truly arrive?
But many libraries have tried in on live catalogues--anyone who is doing RDA now and many libraries who are accepting RDA copy cataloging. Pat Patricia Sayre-McCoy Head, Law Cataloging and Serials D'Angelo Law Library University of Chicago 773-702-9620 p...@uchicago.edu -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca] On Behalf Of Kelleher, Martin Sent: Tuesday, January 22, 2013 10:19 AM To: RDA-L@listserv.lac-bac.gc.ca Subject: Re: [RDA-L] When will RDA truly arrive? Will it truly arrive? I assumed he meant no-one's actually trialled it on live catalogues, which is the impression I had. Cheers Martin -Original Message- From: Resource Description and Access / Resource Description and Access [mailto:RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA] On Behalf Of Kevin M Randall Sent: 22 January 2013 16:10 To: RDA-L@LISTSERV.LAC-BAC.GC.CA Subject: Re: [RDA-L] When will RDA truly arrive? Will it truly arrive? James Weinheimer wrote: The big boys have said they will implement RDA, but it still has never been road-tested. What do you call the US RDA Test that garnered quite a bit of attention--and even used the live LC/NACO Authority File, to boot--if not a road test? Not to mention all of the cataloging done by libraries that continued to use RDA after the test? Kevin M. Randall Principal Serials Cataloger Northwestern University Library k...@northwestern.edu (847) 491-2939 Proudly wearing the sensible shoes since 1978!
