Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s
Jay Sorry I should have explained that too... Absorb starts off at around 50% of the available amps and tapers down to around 20% So I divided 20 by 50 = .40 there's a 5% loss factor hence .42 Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay Peltz Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s Hi Tom Where did you get the .42 from? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz wrote: Drake Keep the absorb rate recommended for the CC. The trimetric strays over time and will become accurate again when you overcharge (equalize) The math: Amp hours of battery @ 20 hour rate divided by max charge available in amps, from whatever you using to charge (solar or inverter/charger) Times .42 = absorb time in hours i.e. your system 980 watts, 980 divided by 28.8 (average volts) = 34 amps max charge 370 AH divided by 34 = 10.88 X .42 = 4.57 round up to 4.6 hours absorb time for the CC Your inverter VFX3524 max charge 85 amps... 370 divided by 85 = 4.35 X .42 = 1.82 absorb time for the inverter/charger when running generator Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s Hi Larry, I will bump up the absorb voltage to 29.6 V. How long do you think the bank should stay in absorb at that rate? The bank now seems healthy, with the bad battery replaced. It does accept charge, without going high prematurely. The max charge rate from the array is around C/10. The system can also be fast charged from a Honda 6500 inverter generator through the Outback 3524 VFX. We have a Trimetric meter on the system. The discrepancy between the percent charge and the voltage is what demonstrated that we had a problem. Thanks, Drake At 09:30 PM 7/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Drake, It always concerns me when I hear that a battery bank reaches absorb setting very quickly. It typically means one of two things: very few AH were removed from the bank; the battery bank has sulfated cells due to chronic undercharging. Far too often I find the latter to be true. Healthy batteries will accept current and hold the charge voltage down with a fairly linear, slow climb to absorption voltage. Sulfated batteries do not accept current well which allows voltage to climb rapidly as the battery presents little load on the charging system. I'm not sure how this plays into your original post about a bad cell but it seemed worth mentioning. My opinion is to aggressively charge, by using higher voltage, large flooded batteries. This is especially true when the PV system is moderate or undersized. 29.6 volts is what Trojan recommends. You can go as high as 32 volts on the L-16's but make sure the temperature compensation is installed properly and working. You will use more water. One last comment, I highly recommend that ALL off grid systems have a battery capacity monitor installed. It's kind of like flying an airplane without a fuel gauge...it might not end in disaster. Larry Crutcher Starlight Solar Power Systems On Jul 18, 2013, at 1:11 PM, Drake drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org wrote: Tom, The batteries usually reach absorb voltage shortly after the sun hits the array. The reason the bank wasn't working correctly is that one cell was dead in one of the batteries. I could increase the absorb time to 4.6 hours and the voltage to 29.6, especially since the bank has a new battery. That is longer and higher than I'd previously heard recommended. What would be the effect on water consumption? How did you calculate the absorb time? Thanks, Drake ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive:
Re: [RE-wrenches] RE-wrenches Digest, Vol 6, Issue 276
Hi Corey, 3M makes VHB (Very High Bond) glue used extensively in the automotive industry to attach trim to body panels without fasteners. If the surface is irregular you might want to use a double sided VHB tape with a thin layer of foam between the two glue surfaces. I would suggest contacting 3M customer service/tech support to make sure all the requirements of your application are met by the multitude of 3M product offerings. Good luck, Bill Loesch Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar On 22-Jul-13 11:46 AM, Corey Shalanski wrote: Our local inspector is allowing sticker-type labels, so we have begun printing our own with a laser printer. We found weatherproof sheets available in a variety of size configurations: http://www.onlinelabels.com/material_polyester_laser_labels.htm After about six months of testing they seem to be adhering alright to most surfaces, but we can't seem to get anything - including trophy plaques - to stick to SMA inverter cabinets (or any surface with a grainy texture) without using some sort of super glue. I'd be interested to hear from anyone who's found a successful method or product for this application. -- Corey Shalanski Joule Energy New Orleans, LA On Wed, Jul 17, 2013 at 2:50 PM, Bob Ellison reelli...@gmail.com mailto:reelli...@gmail.com wrote: If you're using a P touch there are labels with adhesives available that are non-removable and stick on real well The regular labels will unpeel at some point The nonremovable ones don't unpeel their labels and hold their colors very well especially inside a box Opening a box and finding five labels laying on the bottom isn't pleasant! ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6511 - Release Date: 07/22/13 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6513 - Release Date: 07/23/13___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Request for efficient hydronics links
Wrenches, Can anyone provide links to online articles or resources on reducing the electrical consumption of a hydronic boiler-based residential heating system, in order to make it more electrically efficient for an off grid home? Articles or links about efficient circulator pumps, zone valves, low-idle controls, plumbing designs, etc. would be quite useful. I would like to provide such links or articles to a customer and her designer/builder and hydronic subcontractor. Thank you, Allan -- Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
William, What does the PV array consist of? What size and type, and how many, modules? Which TriStar? 45 or 60A? What controller did she have before the upgrade? The high charging voltage might be a sign of sulfation. Depending on her load profile, that 8A charge rate might have caused chronic undercharging. In a 5 peak sun-hour location, that's only 40Ah/day of charging capacity. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT Friends: I have a customer with a new Tristar MPPT controller. The customer has some older L-16 batteries mixed with new and she thinks the controller has damaged her batteries. I am trying to convince her that the batteries were already damaged and mixing old with new is a bad idea. I removed the worst batteries from the array, leaving one string of older batteries with reasonable SG readings. The CC still acts strangely: When programmed to charge the L-16 batteries, the battery voltage shoots up to 30.2 volts and the batteries boil a lot. The green light on the controller blinks at variable rates, at one moment fast, the next slow, the next solid. I believe the client started with bad batteries, 6 are 4 years old, 2 are 1 year old. She is convinced that the CC damaged her batteries. She replaced panels and CC recently, installing the Tristar. I believe the old PV system charged at such a slow rate (8 amps) that the battery deficiency was not apparent. The higher charging rate has emphasized the problem. Any one have any thing to add to my theory? Thanks in advance. William Miller [cid:image002.jpg@01CE87A8.28D5F890] 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422 www.millersolar.comhttp://www.millersolar.com/ 805-438-5600 voice* *Note: above number replaces cell number inline: image002.jpg___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
Brian: I don't have the PV details handy but I will provide them. Question: will a sulfated cell exhibit a SG of 1.26? I thought a sulfated cell locked the acid onto the plates, minimizing the SG readings below that of a healthy cell. 1.26 is a relatively high reading. William On Jul 23, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com wrote: William, What does the PV array consist of? What size and type, and how many, modules? Which TriStar? 45 or 60A? What controller did she have before the upgrade? The high charging voltage might be a sign of sulfation. Depending on her load profile, that 8A charge rate might have caused chronic undercharging. In a 5 peak sun-hour location, that’s only 40Ah/day of charging capacity. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William Miller Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:13 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT Friends: I have a customer with a new Tristar MPPT controller. The customer has some older L-16 batteries mixed with new and she thinks the controller has damaged her batteries. I am trying to convince her that the batteries were already damaged and mixing old with new is a bad idea. I removed the worst batteries from the array, leaving one string of older batteries with reasonable SG readings. The CC still acts strangely: When programmed to charge the L-16 batteries, the battery voltage shoots up to 30.2 volts and the batteries boil a lot. The green light on the controller blinks at variable rates, at one moment fast, the next slow, the next solid. I believe the client started with bad batteries, 6 are 4 years old, 2 are 1 year old. She is convinced that the CC damaged her batteries. She replaced panels and CC recently, installing the Tristar. I believe the old PV system charged at such a slow rate (8 amps) that the battery deficiency was not apparent. The higher charging rate has emphasized the problem. Any one have any thing to add to my theory? Thanks in advance. William Miller image002.jpg 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422 www.millersolar.com 805-438-5600 voice* *Note: above number replaces cell number ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed it. Do they have a representative on the list? Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Gary Willett g...@icarussolarservices.com Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Reply-To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
Did you look for dead cells? I've seen many L 16 sets (including my own) only last 4-1/2 years, so that set was already almost done. If she started mixing new batteries in before, she knew she already had a problem. Did this system change from 12 v to 24 v? The rule of thumb for eons (or at least the long history of lead acid batteries) is that a mixed set of new and old batteries will only last as long as the oldest battery. The new batteries will be chronically undercharged, while the old ones will be chronically over charged. My guess is the higher charging rate available caused some already heavily sulfated cells to go ahead and short out. It's like giving a gasping man some oxygen, and then he goes into cardiac arrest. You did what you could, but those batteries were on their way out already. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/23/2013 3:36 PM, William wrote: Brian: I don't have the PV details handy but I will provide them. Question: will a sulfated cell exhibit a SG of 1.26? I thought a sulfated cell locked the acid onto the plates, minimizing the SG readings below that of a healthy cell. 1.26 is a relatively high reading. William On Jul 23, 2013, at 1:28 PM, Brian Teitelbaum bteitelb...@aeesolar.com mailto:bteitelb...@aeesolar.com wrote: William, What does the PV array consist of? What size and type, and how many, modules? Which TriStar? 45 or 60A? What controller did she have before the upgrade? The high charging voltage might be a sign of sulfation. Depending on her load profile, that 8A charge rate might have caused chronic undercharging. In a 5 peak sun-hour location, that's only 40Ah/day of charging capacity. Brian Teitelbaum AEE Solar *From:*re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *William Miller *Sent:* Tuesday, July 23, 2013 1:13 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT Friends: I have a customer with a new Tristar MPPT controller. The customer has some older L-16 batteries mixed with new and she thinks the controller has damaged her batteries. I am trying to convince her that the batteries were already damaged and mixing old with new is a bad idea. I removed the worst batteries from the array, leaving one string of older batteries with reasonable SG readings. The CC still acts strangely: When programmed to charge the L-16 batteries, the battery voltage shoots up to 30.2 volts and the batteries boil a lot. The green light on the controller blinks at variable rates, at one moment fast, the next slow, the next solid. I believe the client started with bad batteries, 6 are 4 years old, 2 are 1 year old. She is convinced that the CC damaged her batteries. She replaced panels and CC recently, installing the Tristar. I believe the old PV system charged at such a slow rate (8 amps) that the battery deficiency was not apparent. The higher charging rate has emphasized the problem. Any one have any thing to add to my theory? Thanks in advance. William Miller image002.jpg 17395 Oak Rd. Atascadero, CA 93422 www.millersolar.com http://www.millersolar.com/ 805-438-5600 voice* *Note: above number replaces cell number ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s
Tom, Except that absorb starts off at 100% of the available amps, not 50%. Absorb starts as soon as bulk reaches the bulk voltage setpoint. It starts out at the same current as was available in bulk, then ramps back incrementally as the batteries continue to approach full, allowing only as much of the available current to flow to the batteries as is necessary to maintain the voltage setpoint plus loads. On the finishing end, absorb doesn't have much to do with available amps. Rather, it either completes a timed cycle, with no particular control of the available amps except as regulated as above, or it switches to float when the amps necessary to maintain the bulk (a.k.a. absorption) voltage drops below a threshold, typically 2% of bank capacity. And finally, the midpoint between 20 and 50 is 35, not 40. Given that these principles form the basis of your definitive .42 figure, this number sounds pretty arbitrary. Is there anything more you can say by way of explanation? Thanks, Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder and Chief Technology Officer Positive Energy, Inc., a Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com On 7/23/2013 7:57 AM, Tom Duffy wrote: Jay Sorry I should have explained that too... Absorb starts off at around 50% of the available amps and tapers down to around 20% So I divided 20 by 50 = .40 there's a 5% loss factor hence .42 Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jay Peltz Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 1:27 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s Hi Tom Where did you get the .42 from? Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2013, at 11:04 AM, Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz wrote: Drake Keep the absorb rate recommended for the CC. The trimetric strays over time and will become accurate again when you overcharge (equalize) The math: Amp hours of battery @ 20 hour rate divided by max charge available in amps, from whatever you using to charge (solar or inverter/charger) Times .42 = absorb time in hours i.e. your system 980 watts, 980 divided by 28.8 (average volts) = 34 amps max charge 370 AH divided by 34 = 10.88 X .42 = 4.57 round up to 4.6 hours absorb time for the CC Your inverter VFX3524 max charge 85 amps... 370 divided by 85 = 4.35 X .42 = 1.82 absorb time for the inverter/charger when running generator Tom Duffy Senior Solar Design Engineer Toll Free 888-895-8179 t...@thesolar.biz Customer Service and Accounting 888-895-6810 Grid tie sales 888-895-7847 Off Grid sales 888-895-4058 Other Product Sales 888-895-9612 Central America Sales (Panama) 507-6-126-1253 Shipping and Receiving 888-895-6497 Tech Support 888-895-8179 SKYPE: thesolarbiz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Drake Sent: Monday, July 22, 2013 10:04 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Trojan L-16s Hi Larry, I will bump up the absorb voltage to 29.6 V. How long do you think the bank should stay in absorb at that rate? The bank now seems healthy, with the bad battery replaced. It does accept charge, without going high prematurely. The max charge rate from the array is around C/10. The system can also be fast charged from a Honda 6500 inverter generator through the Outback 3524 VFX. We have a Trimetric meter on the system. The discrepancy between the percent charge and the voltage is what demonstrated that we had a problem. Thanks, Drake At 09:30 PM 7/19/2013, you wrote: Hi Drake, It always concerns me when I hear that a battery bank reaches absorb setting very quickly. It typically means one of two things: very few AH were removed from the bank; the battery bank has sulfated cells due to chronic undercharging. Far too often I find the latter to be true. Healthy batteries will accept current and hold the charge
[RE-wrenches] Tri Star MPPT
What you have there is a set of completely hammered batteries. It sounds like an off-grid system with parallel strings of batteries of different ages being chronically undercharged., which is the renewable energy equivalent of a car full of teenagers with guns and whiskey. Something bad inevitably happens. I'd recommend that you get an automotive style battery load tester and clamp that on to each one in turn. Measure the voltage with your multimeter, because those load testers have iffy analog meters. I'll bet one will collapse under load. Does this customer also have a generator? Sometimes with undersized PV arrays and a generator you get a gorge and starve charging pattern. The customer lets the batteries get totally flailed and then grudgingly goes out and starts the generator. The batteries get blasted with high amperage for a while, shedding positive plate material, and then get starved again. Perfect storm. Tell her that she needs a new set of matched batteries. If she balks, politely tell her you can't help her, and let someone with less judgement deal with it. Good luck, Hilton -- Hilton Dier III Renewable Energy Design Partner, Solar Gain LLC 453 East Hill Rd. Middlesex, VT 05602 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
The sulfated cell would show an artificially high SQ reading, if she tried to add acid to it: another bogus trick people try, when their batteries are going out. You might ask. Customers often have to try every other trick in the book before admitting they need to pay for new batteries. (adding acid, or EDHT additive, using magicpulsing technology, replacing just a couple of batteries, super over charging equalizing, buying a used set from their neighbors, trying to use 2 separate sets (use one for a couple of days, charge the other in town..) R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 7/23/2013 3:36 PM, William wrote: Brian: Question: will a sulfated cell exhibit a SG of 1.26? I thought a sulfated cell locked the acid onto the plates, minimizing the SG readings below that of a healthy cell. 1.26 is a relatively high reading. William ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Tri-Star MPPT
Hi Eric, While agree with most all your assessments, Can you please elaborate on the sulfation causes the voltage not to climb? This is quite counter to what I have seen and what the battery people say? Thanks Jay Peltz power Sent from my iPad On Jul 23, 2013, at 2:48 PM, eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com wrote: Hi William, If the SG was 1.26, of course the battery voltage would increase quickly to 30V (which is high for warm weather, BTW). It has been my experience that sulfation causes the voltage NOT to climb. Especially when you have a very large bank, and a relatively small amount of solar. Sometimes it is necessary to reduce the bank size into smaller sets to equalize them and recover their performance. This method of reducing bank size is also effective to compare performance and weed out a potentially bad battery. Systems that have a lot of capacity, with a relatively small amount of charge current usually creates problems, because the load demand exceeds solar production. This results in batteries that operate with partial SOC, which is when sulfation is most prevalent. With (8) L16s, you have approx 800Ahrs of capacity (24V bank). It would take significantly more than 8A of charge current to properly care for a bank that size. Rgds, _ Eric Bentsen | Schneider Electric | Solar Business | UNITED STATES | Technical Support Representative Phone: +(650) 351-8237 ext. 001# | Email: eric.bent...@schneider-electric.com | Site: www.schneider-electric.com/solar | Address: 250 South Vasco Rd., Livermore, CA 94551 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply
Hi Carl and All, This spring we had the opportunity to install a 5000-TLUS inverter for a client, as a pre-release version. The inverter was commissioned on April 1st and has produced about 2.7 MWhs thus far. As mentioned, the secure power supply (SPS) requires a dedicated outlet with a switch to control its operation. For this installation we installed the SPS in the mechanical room, which is about 50 ft from where the inverter is located. We chose the mechanical room because it is centrally located within the floor plan of the home, making it easily accessible to plug in emergency type loads, i.e. cell phone chargers, laptops, lamps, etc.. It is also very close to the fridge, which we plugged in with a short extension cord and tested its operation in the stand-alone mode (which is what the inverter display when the grid is down and the SPS in activated). The inverter had no problem powering the fridge. The inverter display showed about 900 watts bypassed from the solar array to the SPS when the fridge cycled onI must say it was a very cool feeling seeing this happen. As far as the inverter itself goes, I only have a few minor complaints. Like the old SMA 1800U and 2500U, the conduit knockouts on the bottom of the inverter are at a slight angle, which means you must put a slight bend in your conduit. This is obviously a bit annoying and I can only guess it has something to do with the plug and play nature of non-U.S. installation techniques. The TLUS inverters are also lacking Bluetooth communication, unlike their HFUS counterparts. I think this is a nice feature of the HFUS inverters and wish it was integrated into the TL's. With no real difference in cost compared to traditional grid-direct inverters, I see no reason not to specify the TL, especially for someone who has a desire for limited power supply during a grid outage. They can always add a Sunny Island later on, if a more robust backup system is needed. I hope this helps. Orion Thornton Onsite Energy NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jesse Dahl Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2013 4:11 PM To: wire...@gmail.com; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply I know the MREA in WI has one installed on site, but not sure who installed it. Do they have a representative on the list? Jesse Sent from my iPhone On Jul 22, 2013, at 6:18 PM, wire...@gmail.com wrote: If we have another long outage here in CT and we seem to have one every year now, I don't want to have to explain to my customers why I didn't use this inverter. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Gary Willett g...@icarussolarservices.com Sender: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.orgDate: Mon, 22 Jul 2013 17:33:26 To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Reply-To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] SMA Secure Power Supply ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
