Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Gary Willett]

  
  
Benn:
What kind of generator? If a Generac, and depending on the
controller vintage, it may be possible to install their SMM (smart
management module) load shedding module which does not require
separate control wires. 

Down side is they're rated 50A for resistive loads and 40A for
inductive loads. If they work, one would be required for each
SE7600.   
http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf

Give Generac a call, or maybe a Wrench who sells/maintains Generacs
can comment on the suitability of this solution. I've used them for
load shedding, bot not for inverter shedding.
I believe one of the 8 settings will always lock out the unit on
  grid failure / genset operating, as opposed to be one of the 7
  total load based priorities.

Regards,
Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering LLC


On 9/8/16 6:17 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:


  
  Hey Jerry,
  Yeah, hard wiring would require quite
a bit of trenching and wire. 
  I was hoping someone would be
familiar with a remote relay option or at least a manual reset
relay that would include some sort of indicator for when it has
shut off the inverters. 
  
  
  Earlier today I was considering what
you are suggesting. Seems like it should work. 
  Anyone care to poke some holes in
this theory?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807
  
  
On Sep 8, 2016, at 4:57 PM, jerrysgarage01 
wrote:

  
  

  
  
  
  Wrenches
  Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a
shut down switch so here is an idea l have used. Program the
genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this will keep the inverters
ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know but as
long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz
then it will work
  Jerry
  
  
  
Sent via the
  Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
  
  
  
   Original message 
  From: Benn Kilburn  
  Date:09/08/2016 7:00 AM (GMT-10:00) 
  To: RE-wrenches  
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter
shut-down relay 
  
  
  
Wrenches,

We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US
  inverters in a grid-tied system that has a 15kw back-up
  generator on an auto transfer switch.
  

The generator is located in a shed about
  300' or more away and the feeders to the house are
  underground.

Inverters are located in the house basement
  mechanial room along with the house electrical panelboard.
  

We are looking for relay options to shut
  down the inverters when there is a power interruption,
  before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual
  reset.
  

What are some options you have seen/used
  for something like this?
  

Thanks,




  
Benn Kilburn 
CSA Certified Solar
  Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW |
  Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F:
  888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com


  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NiFe batteries

[John Blittersdorf]

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:31 PM, John Blittersdorf <
john.blittersd...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Tump,
>One concern with the Aquion batteries is that the recommended lowest
> ambient temperature is 40 degrees and they will freeze below 25 degrees F.
> I will be installing these batteries in an off grid system in October and I
> suggested that the temporary power shed (during construction of the house)
> should be insulated and a small propane heater installed to insure that
> they don't get too cold.
>
>One of my customers ordered NiFe batteries directly from China and held
> his breath for over 2 months wondering if he would ever see the batteries
> arrive.  They are the same battery that Iron Edison sells as their economy
> line made in China.
> So far they are working fine.  There are 40 batteries in one string
> connected to two VFX3648 inverters with 12KW Kohler generator and the solar
> is just 24 Evergreen ES-A 210's.  I Installed the batteries for him
> (replacing 32 Interstate L16 batteries at their end of life), and found
> they were well made, easy to install (came with interconnect plates), and
> they appear to be working fine.  I could get more info from the customer if
> you need it.  Ask Iron Edison about their Chinese battery.
>
> John Blittersdorf
> Rob Stubbins Solar
> Rutland, VT
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:34 AM,  wrote:
>
>> Check out Iron Edison batteries. They are pricey but well worth it for
>> anyone in it for the long run. Specs below. I'll sell you them but you can
>> likely buy directly from them if you set up an account.
>>
>> http://ironedison.com/nickel-iron-ni-fe-battery
>>
>>
>>
>> > I have a client that is interested in this type of battery and or the
>> > Aquin,  both of which I have NO knowledge. Would like to use them w/ a
>> SMA
>> > SI6048 OFF GRID 12-1400 Ah@20hr rate capacity. batteries stored outside
>> > average winter time temp 25*F. Thoughts on their use /directions for
>> > supplier. Thanks in advance TUMP
>> >
>> >> t...@swnl.net
>> >> > t...@swnl.net>
>> >>   www.SWNL.net
>> >> > //www.swnl.net/>
>> >> Solarwinds Northernlights
>> >>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>> >>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
>> >>   Blair "TUMP" May
>> >>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>> >>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"
>> >>
>> >>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>> >>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
>> >>
>> >
>> >
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Re: [RE-wrenches] NiFe batteries

[John Blittersdorf]

Tump,
   One concern with the Aquion batteries is that the recommended lowest
ambient temperature is 40 degrees and they will freeze below 25 degrees F.
I will be installing these batteries in an off grid system in October and I
suggested that the temporary power shed (during construction of the house)
should be insulated and a small propane heater installed to insure that
they don't get too cold.

   One of my customers ordered NiFe batteries directly from China and held
his breath for over 2 months wondering if he would ever see the batteries
arrive.  They are the same battery that Iron Edison sells as their economy
line made in China.
So far they are working fine.  There are 40 batteries in one string
connected to two VFX3648 inverters with 12KW Kohler generator and the solar
is just 24 Evergreen ES-A 210's.  I Installed the batteries for him
(replacing 32 Interstate L16 batteries at their end of life), and found
they were well made, easy to install (came with interconnect plates), and
they appear to be working fine.  I could get more info from the customer if
you need it.  Ask Iron Edison about their Chinese battery.

John Blittersdorf
Rob Stubbins Solar
Rutland, VT


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 9:34 AM,  wrote:

> Check out Iron Edison batteries. They are pricey but well worth it for
> anyone in it for the long run. Specs below. I'll sell you them but you can
> likely buy directly from them if you set up an account.
>
> http://ironedison.com/nickel-iron-ni-fe-battery
>
>
>
> > I have a client that is interested in this type of battery and or the
> > Aquin,  both of which I have NO knowledge. Would like to use them w/ a
> SMA
> > SI6048 OFF GRID 12-1400 Ah@20hr rate capacity. batteries stored outside
> > average winter time temp 25*F. Thoughts on their use /directions for
> > supplier. Thanks in advance TUMP
> >
> >> t...@swnl.net
> >>  t...@swnl.net>
> >>   www.SWNL.net
> >>  //www.swnl.net/>
> >> Solarwinds Northernlights
> >>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
> >>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401
> >>   Blair "TUMP" May
> >>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
> >>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer"
> >>
> >>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
> >>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> >>
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Matthew Sherald]

I got zapped on a neutral in a generac transfer switch that I thought was
de-energized.  Someone prior had moved hots from the transfer switch to the
main panel, but not the neutrals.  I was disassembling connections in the
transfer switch as part of a move to a battery-backup system and I could
not believe it when I got popped.  The experience drove home the importance
of terminating the phase and neutral in the same enclosure.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:22 PM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

> You have to splice the load cabling in the main panel, otherwise you would
> need to run new conduits and cables. There's nothing that I know of that
> prevents you splicing wires.
> I disagree with the response that you do not need to move the neutrals.
> You should never have the load's phase wiring in one panel and the neutral
> in another.
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
>> Hello wrenches,
>>
>> We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel
>> adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  I've
>> always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we use) that we
>> can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load wiring to the
>> critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing a splice in the
>> main panel and extending the leads to the critical panel?  You would be
>> treating the service panel as a pass-trough/splice box for those critical
>> loads.
>>
>> It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch
>> packages with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to do
>> just that.
>>
>> Code references would be appreciated.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> --
>>
>>
>>
>> Mac Lewis
>>
>> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>>
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>
> --
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> www.cometsolar.com 
> 264.235.5670
> 869.662.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
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-- 
Matt Sherald
PIMBY Energy, LLC
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

I’m curious. If a critical load center is powered from an alternative source 
and the main panel is not energized, won’t all neutral conductors still be 
energized from the sub panel back feeding the main? Or is that OK?

Larry



On Sep 8, 2016, at 6:43 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

Hi Chris;

Its the same as a switch leg for a light.  The neutral stays at the light, only 
the hot is run down to the switch and back. 
Also, with some critical load panel set ups available (ie Generac), there is no 
provision to even run the neutrals to the new CLP. 
This is cleaner and involves much less splicing.  Fewer connections is usually 
better in my book.
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 9/8/2016 6:22 PM, Chris Mason wrote:
> 
> I disagree with the response that you do not need to move the neutrals. You 
> should never have the load's phase wiring in one panel and the neutral in 
> another.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
> 
> 




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Matthew Sherald]

Generac offers a Smart Management Module.

http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf

I used one of these at a grid-tie job where the customer was simultaneously
having a Generac unit installed.  The Generac installer turned me on to the
device and it seemed to do the trick.  It was a similar situation where the
PV and GT inverter were at an outbuilding far removed from the main panel
at the house.


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
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-- 
Matt Sherald
PIMBY Energy, LLC
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Ray Walters]

Hi Chris;

Its the same as a switch leg for a light.  The neutral stays at the 
light, only the hot is run down to the switch and back.
Also, with some critical load panel set ups available (ie Generac), 
there is no provision to even run the neutrals to the new CLP.
This is cleaner and involves much less splicing.  Fewer connections is 
usually better in my book.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 9/8/2016 6:22 PM, Chris Mason wrote:


I disagree with the response that you do not need to move the 
neutrals. You should never have the load's phase wiring in one panel 
and the neutral in another.






Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Ray,

Sorry to be unclear, yes, in almost all cases it would involve a splice of
some kind.  My main issue is can you use a service panel as a pass through
box.

Thanks

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

> Hi Mac;
>
> I'm not sure I understand how you would extend the wires without splicing.
> BTW you only need to extend the hots, not the neutrals or grounds.
> *NEC 312.8* sets a cross sectional area limit of 75% for the splices and
> wires inside an OCPD Enclosure.
> I just found these inline splices to use instead of the infamous wire
> nut:  http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/product/12/557/67825/.html
> These should make for a cleaner install, and take less precious space, but
> I haven't tried them yet.
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 9/8/2016 6:00 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:
>
> Hello wrenches,
>
> We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel
> adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  I've
> always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we use) that we
> can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load wiring to the
> critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing a splice in the
> main panel and extending the leads to the critical panel?  You would be
> treating the service panel as a pass-trough/splice box for those critical
> loads.
>
> It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch packages
> with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to do just that.
>
> Code references would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> * "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates *
>
>
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Chris Mason]

You have to splice the load cabling in the main panel, otherwise you would
need to run new conduits and cables. There's nothing that I know of that
prevents you splicing wires.
I disagree with the response that you do not need to move the neutrals. You
should never have the load's phase wiring in one panel and the neutral in
another.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 8:00 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:

> Hello wrenches,
>
> We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel
> adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  I've
> always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we use) that we
> can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load wiring to the
> critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing a splice in the
> main panel and extending the leads to the critical panel?  You would be
> treating the service panel as a pass-trough/splice box for those critical
> loads.
>
> It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch packages
> with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to do just that.
>
> Code references would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Ray Walters]

Hi Mac;

I'm not sure I understand how you would extend the wires without 
splicing. BTW you only need to extend the hots, not the neutrals or 
grounds.
*NEC 312.8* sets a cross sectional area limit of 75% for the splices and 
wires inside an OCPD Enclosure.
I just found these inline splices to use instead of the infamous wire 
nut: http://www.idealindustries.co.uk/product/12/557/67825/.html
These should make for a cleaner install, and take less precious space, 
but I haven't tried them yet.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 9/8/2016 6:00 PM, Mac Lewis wrote:

Hello wrenches,

We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel 
adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  
I've always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we 
use) that we can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load 
wiring to the critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing 
a splice in the main panel and extending the leads to the critical 
panel?  You would be treating the service panel as a 
pass-trough/splice box for those critical loads.


It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch 
packages with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to 
do just that.


Code references would be appreciated.

Thanks

--



Mac Lewis

*

"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates

*


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[RE-wrenches] Splices in service panel

[Mac Lewis]

Hello wrenches,

We run into many scenarios where we are locating a critical load panel
adjacent to an existing service to make it easy to move the loads.  I've
always taken it for granted (as have the electricians that we use) that we
can't do a splice in the main panel and extend the load wiring to the
critical load panel.  Is there code violation for doing a splice in the
main panel and extending the leads to the critical panel?  You would be
treating the service panel as a pass-trough/splice box for those critical
loads.

It makes me wonder because of all of the prewired transfer switch packages
with wire whips already attached that seem to be designed to do just that.

Code references would be appreciated.

Thanks

-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Chris Mason]

Generac Smart Management Module
http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf
It will sense that the power is coming from a generator and open a
contactor. You can adapt that to disconnect your solar resource.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Benn Kilburn]

Hey Jerry,
Yeah, hard wiring would require quite a bit of trenching and wire. 
I was hoping someone would be familiar with a remote relay option or at least a 
manual reset relay that would include some sort of indicator for when it has 
shut off the inverters. 

Earlier today I was considering what you are suggesting. Seems like it should 
work. 
Anyone care to poke some holes in this theory?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 4:57 PM, jerrysgarage01  wrote:
> 
> 
> Wrenches
> Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a shut down switch so 
> here is an idea l have used. Program the genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this 
> will keep the inverters ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know 
> but as long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz then it will 
> work
> Jerry
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Benn Kilburn
> Date:09/08/2016 7:00 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay
> 
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
> has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
> 
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
> the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the 
> house electrical panelboard.
> 
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
> power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
> reset.
> 
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> 
> 
> WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[jerrysgarage01]

Wrenches
Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a shut down switch so here 
is an idea l have used. Program the genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this will 
keep the inverters ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know but as 
long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz then it will work
Jerry

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Benn Kilburn 
 Date:09/08/2016  7:00 AM  (GMT-10:00) 
To: RE-wrenches  
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay 

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
the house are underground.
Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the house 
electrical panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

Benn Kilburn 
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Stumper - Homerun Interference in Conduit/Inverter Turning Off/On Rapidly

[August Goers]

Certainly seems like a stumper so far! I'd still check voltage and
polarity with the strings through the conduit but not landed in the
inverter. We've seen all kinds of mistakes where the negatives were
mixed-up between strings, etc, causing strange behavior. Voltages can test
fine when landed in inverters (even with fuses pulled) but exhibit
different behavior when completely isolated. The fact that the system ran
at first would lead us to believe that the wiring was done properly,
however. It seems like the other suggestion of some sort of mild ground
fault is a good path to follow. I also would highly question how those
Tigo optimizers might be adding to the equation. You could also run the
inverter with everything wired up and your volt meter on the DC inputs to
see what is happening. The conduit factor here can only be causing ground
issues or possibly some kind of inductance hokey pokey, but that seems
unlikely.

August

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Matt Partymiller
Sent: Wednesday, September 07, 2016 6:55 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Troubleshooting Stumper - Homerun Interference
in Conduit/Inverter Turning Off/On Rapidly

Thanks for all the questions and interest in my troubleshooting.

The polarities are definitely correct.  When testing wires at the inverter
with the DC disco off and fuses pulled, we see correct voltage on each
string.

We have tried using two clamp meters to measure current on each string
while operating the inverter with our homeruns in the conduit.  Using the
max function we never saw a meter get above about 1.5A (even less earlier
in the day).  String two seemed to be consistently lower but I really
wasn't sure if that was an inverter function or not as it ramps up towards
max power.  With the homeruns outside of conduit the inverter operates
fine and both strings show similar, but not identical, current.  Doing the
math it appeared each string was producing roughly half of inverter output
at that time.

To Jerry's question, the system did operate fine for about a week and 65
kWh.  The inverter then failed.  Our technician replaced that inverter
with a new Solectria 3.8 kW unit, restarted the unit, and noted the
problem.  With Solectria's help he arrived at the idea that we had a
faulty inverter, got a new one in, and noted the exact same error codes
and began trying to troubleshoot.  He left the third inverter installed
and also installed a new Tigo Cloud Connect and Gateway for the Trinasmart
system.

The modules are 255 Trinasmarts with the integral Tigos.  The folks at
Tigo insist the issue is not theirs and, given that either string works
fine by itself and both strings work fine when not in conduit, I tend to
believe them.  I just don't appreciate how having 20' of undamaged homerun
wire in conduit as opposed to free air can make an inverter stop
operating.

Thanks,

Matt



On Wed, September 7, 2016 8:58 pm, jay wrote:
> hate to ask the obvious here, but you mean to say that volts and
> polarity are correct on both sets of wires at the inverter when not
connected?
>
> and
>
> 2. what wattage modules are you using?
>
>
> jay peltz power
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> On Sep 7, 2016, at 2:45 PM, Matt Partymiller
>>  wrote:
>>
>>
>> Wrenches,
>>
>>
>> One of our systems is having an issue I have not encountered before
>> where the inverter switches between nighttime mode and
>> interconnection every few seconds.  I am hoping for some technical
>> wisdom from the community.
>>
>> We have an array of 20 TrinaSmart modules in two strings of 10.  The
>> array is connected to a Solectria 3.8 kW inverter.  The conduit run
>> is simple, all four homerun wires (#10 PVwire) in 1" EMT down to the
>> proximity of the Solectria inverter where the conduit switches to 1"
>> LFMC before entering
>> the inverter.  The run is about 20', straight down the side of the
>> wall before hitting the inverter.  A 600V jacketed communications
>> wire was also in the conduit but has since been removed and run
separately.
>>
>> Our inverter is starting up, running for a few seconds, giving a low
>> voltage error, briefly showing nighttime mode, then going into
>> startup mode again.  Solectria was gracious enough to send us a new
>> inverter but we have the exact same issue.  They tell us their error
>> codes (266,
>> 274)
>> indicate 0 volts.  The transition between low voltage error and
>> startup is almost instant.  Basically we have 20 seconds of start up,
>> 5 seconds of run, 5 seconds of error then repeat.  This is not a grid
>> problem, the  identical system next door works fine.
>>
>> In the process of troubleshooting, our technician pulled all four
>> homerun wires out of our conduit and meggered them.  They all tested
>> fine so he connected to the inverter.  The inverter worked fine.  The
>> technician verified grounding of the array and conduit, pulled new
>> homeruns 

[RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Benn Kilburn]

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
to the house are underground.
Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
house electrical panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a
power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual
reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
[image: email]  [image: facebook]
 [image: twitter]
 [image: linkedin]



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[RE-wrenches] Environ thermostat

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Wrenches,

Has anyone put in an Environ thermostat from Enphase? Are they still making
these?

Thanks
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[RE-wrenches] NiFe batteries

[Tump]

I have a client that is interested in this type of battery and or the Aquin,  
both of which I have NO knowledge. Would like to use them w/ a SMA SI6048 OFF 
GRID 12-1400 Ah@20hr rate capacity. batteries stored outside average winter 
time temp 25*F. Thoughts on their use /directions for supplier. Thanks in 
advance TUMP

> t...@swnl.net 
>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie with dump load?

[Chris Mason]

I can weigh in here, having done this.
The reason we do this is the utility puts in a meter that charges you for
export (not everyone lives in the US).

We have built a contactor based system that centers around a Raspberry Pi
and an Egauge. We read the egauge over ethernet (JSON), determine the power
consumption/export, and switch loads on and off. The loads can be water
heaters, air conditioners, or any large load that does not have to be on
continuously.

In the one case I did this successfully, we had two 30KW systems, so we
would switch one off when there was too much production, using a large
contactor. We had to have the contactor anyway as there was a big generator
that powered the facility in the event of a power outage.

If the inverters had the ability to be ramped, I would have used that. Our
next stage was to be Modbus control of the inverters, but we then moved to
a Solar-Log based system, and here is the press release about that. The
Solar-Log controls the inverters by Modbus and monitors the exported power,
so you can achieve a near zero export, and I believe also can control dump
loads if you can find anything useful to do with the excess power.
http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/solar-log-power-management-delivers-zero-grid-export-300096381.html
It's easy to do with a Raspberry Pi, the hard part is to find a dump load
large enough and flexible enough.


On Wed, Sep 7, 2016 at 8:48 PM, jay  wrote:

> Hi Kris,
>
> yes I think you need to help us with greater information about what the
> reasons are, and the specific requirements.
>
> 1. instantaneous or monthly?
> 2. does it have to be listed and approved?
> 3. is this utility requirement or customers fancy?
> 4. anything else?
>
> thanks
> jay
> peltz power
>
> On Sep 7, 2016, at 11:31 AM, Kristopher Schmid 
> wrote:
>
> REWs,
>
> I have a client that asked me if i can install a battery free grid tied
> system and have a dump load activate when it is overproducing.  I am at a
> loss, here.  Anyone have ideas?  A CT on the line side that would activate
> a relay while current is flowing to the utility?
>
> Thanks,
> Kris
>
> --
> Shine On!
>
> Kris Schmid
> Legacy Solar, LLC
> 864 Clam Falls Trail
> Frederic, WI 54837
> www.legacysolar.com
> 715-653-4295
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer
> Licensed Wisconsin Master Electrician
> BSEE
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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