Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out of control

[J Troxell]

> My two cents
>
> Some of the AC side problems On xantrax, schieder, ... systems I have come
> across  were resolved after finding the right combination of firmware
> updates and/or full PCB swaps. If the SCP is relatively new compared to the
> inverter then they may not be "talking" the same xanbus language which
> could lead to "funny" translations of settings. I had a Conext 5548 that
> would not take programming commands from a combox in a grid sell situation.
>
> There were some trace inverters that had serious ac board failures, and
> even now I have found some Conext / Schieder 4024 inverters that decided to
> see the input from a 120/240v generator as 110/208v input, which then
> shutdown the system. In the end it was a firmware update that fixed the
> issue.
>
> J Troxell
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: John Blittersdorf 
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 23:04:37 -0400
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out
> of control
> Hello Group.
> I have a customer with an XW4548 grid tied with a Classic 200 CC, 16
> Evergreen ES-A210's,
> 8 Interstate L16 Batteries, with generator backup.  We have had issues
> with it not selling, selling and then charging at high rates way beyond the
> settings.  This has been an ongoing problem for 6 years and currrently are
> 18 months into the 2nd battery pack and showing depleted battery life.
> Xantrex tech support says that the battery capacity is too small and we are
> not setting it up correctly.  Before the first set of batteries had one
> battery explode, we had spent countless hours with their tech support
> trying to get this inverter to behave properly.  Even when going through
> every setting with tech support, we never got it to work quite right.
> Setting to factory defaults did not work. Found that the default absorption
> time was 6 hours and the inverter battery charger was pushing up to 75 amps
> into this battery, then selling at about 40 to 60 amps DC and then
> immediately charging and then selling.  I estimate this battery pack may
> have had thousands of massive charge and discharge cycles... good reason
> for the batteries to be weak now. After a few of these wild cycles, it
> would fault with DC overvoltage.  It would eventually clear the fault and
> do this crazy cycle again.  I programmed the inverter charger to the lowest
> setting of 10%,  Lowered the battery capacity setting to 200 ah from 360,
> set the charge timer to not run during the hours we were there.  None of
> these changes made any significant difference.  We also set the maximum
> Sell amps AC down to 3 amps which should have kept it at about 720 watts
> but we were still seeing it sell up to 2500 watts.  Before we reset that,,
> it was selling up to 4000 watts.
>
> Could it be a defective SCP. There is no internet there to allow us to see
> the past performance.
>
> Does anyone have a clue what is going on.  I have worked with Outback
> Radians in this same configuration with no problems at all.  I am about
> ready to rip it off the wall and replace it with a Radian.
>
> John Blittersdorf
> Rob Stubbins Electrical and Solar.
>
>
>
> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Kevin Pegg 
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2018 04:01:23 +
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly
> out of control
>
> Hi John,
>
>
>
> Sounds like a nightmare. I'd call hogwash on tech support saying too small
> battery bank, it is small but shouldn't cause XW to ignore settings. I
> don't suspect the SCP, it is just a display not a brain.
>
>
>
> A full list of programmed parameters is useful.
>
>
>
> - have you disconnected BTS and checked if behavior changed?
>
> - setting charger = off may stop this wild charging behaviour, force it to
> just sell surplus PV, but would need manual intervention to charge up from
> grid ie after an outage if this is setup for backup as well.
>
>
>
> I had something along this line some years ago, ignoring programming.
> Ended up doing a complete software delete and reload via XDT and complete
> total system reprogram and it started to behave properly. This is not the
> same as resetting to factory.
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[cwarfel]

Back to the original post. A commercial system doesn't mean they used 
paving blocks.  I have seen many that did not. Fly ash is also a product 
of coal combustion that can be used to make a stronger concrete, though 
it won't necessarily help in this case, as it is lighter.



On 6/30/2018 7:05 PM, Ken Schaal wrote:

Regular cement blocks absorb water, freeze thaw cycle destroys them.

Paving blocks are made with silica fume, denser than cement,dont 
absorb water, don't suffer freeze thaw damage. They are designed for 
 walkways and driveways.

There are cement looking pavers , 12x12 x 2" ,also made with fume.
Any block plant should be able to make balast blocks to the needed 
specs. Silica fume is a waste product of coal combustion

..ie cheap, but effective.
Ken schaal

On Jun 30, 2018 6:29 PM, "cwarfel" > wrote:


I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are
exposed to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast
and this is a recurringproblem. It has to be part of the
maintenance protocols or there will be insufficient weight to
resist thewind uplift forces.  Chris


On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system
installed back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow
installation of a new roof system. Replaced all the ballast in
2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus the same weather you see.
The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which the array was
attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down but
no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me
wonder about the new ballast systems that still call out for the
blocks as ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander
mailto:vtso...@icloud.com>> wrote:

All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50%
of the solid cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and
crumbing, some are close to rubble. I assume it was a bad
batch, but has anyone seen this before? What might be the
preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?

*Kirk Herander*

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *

*/Celebrating our 27^th Anniversary 1991-2018/*

*www.vermontsolarnow.com *

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEP^TM 2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202


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-- 


Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~
E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com /

/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once
said, "democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from
those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."



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 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

EEI logo 

_

Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Ken Schaal]

Regular cement blocks absorb water, freeze thaw cycle destroys them.

Paving blocks are made with silica fume, denser than cement,dont absorb
water, don't suffer freeze thaw damage. They are designed for  walkways and
driveways.
There are cement looking pavers , 12x12 x 2" ,also made with fume.
Any block plant should be able to make balast blocks to the needed specs.
Silica fume is a waste product of coal combustion
..ie cheap, but effective.
Ken schaal

On Jun 30, 2018 6:29 PM, "cwarfel"  wrote:

I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are exposed
to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast and this is a
recurring problem. It has to be part of the maintenance protocols or there
will be insufficient weight to resist the wind uplift forces.  Chris

On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system installed
back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation of a new roof
system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus
the same weather you see. The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which
the array was attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down
but no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me wonder
about the new ballast systems that still call out for the blocks as
ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
> cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
> rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
> might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870  *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424 **www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."


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-- 

 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

[image: EEI logo] 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[cwarfel]

I am pretty sure it is the freeze-thaw cycle that the blocks are exposed 
to. I have inspected hundreds of system in the Northeast and this is a 
recurringproblem. It has to be part of the maintenance protocols or 
there will be insufficient weight to resist thewind uplift forces.  Chris



On 6/30/2018 6:17 PM, Chris Schaefer wrote:

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system 
installed back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation 
of a new roof system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in 
Western NY, thus the same weather you see. The blocks were on a 
stainless steel pan of which the array was attached to. I've plenty of 
ideas as to why they broke down but no real evidence. I expect it to 
happen again. Does make me wonder about the new ballast systems that 
still call out for the blocks as ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?


Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander > wrote:


All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of
the solid cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing,
some are close to rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has
anyone seen this before? What might be the preventive remedy in
the future? A coating of some sort?

*Kirk Herander*

*Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *

*/Celebrating our 27^th Anniversary 1991-2018/*

*www.vermontsolarnow.com *

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEP^TM 2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202


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--

Chris Schaefer’s

/Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870
//5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424
//www.solarandwindfx.com  ~ E-mail: 
ch...@solarandwindfx.com /


/
/

Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said, 
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are 
willing to work and give to those who would not."




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--

 Christopher Warfel, PE
   ENTECH Engineering, Inc.
PO Box 871, Block Island, RI 02807
   (401)466-8978

EEI logo 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Chris Schaefer]

Kirk,

Had the same thing happen to me on a commercial ballasted system installed
back in 2004. Had to be moved around to allow installation of a new roof
system. Replaced all the ballast in 2017. I'm located in Western NY, thus
the same weather you see. The blocks were on a stainless steel pan of which
the array was attached to. I've plenty of ideas as to why they broke down
but no real evidence. I expect it to happen again. Does make me wonder
about the new ballast systems that still call out for the blocks as
ballast. Perhaps poly sand bags?

Christopher

On Wed, Jun 27, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Kirk Herander  wrote:

> All,
>
> I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
> cap blocks(16”L x 8”w x 4”D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
> rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
> might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?
>
>
>
> *Kirk Herander*
>
> *Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC *
>
> *Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018*
>
> *www.vermontsolarnow.com *
>
> dba Vermont Solar Engineering
>
> NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant
>
> VT RE Incentive Program Partner
>
> 802.863.1202
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
*


Thomas Jefferson, the author of our great Constitution, once said,
"democracy" will cease to exist when you take away from those who are
willing to work and give to those who would not."
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[RE-wrenches] crumbling ballast blocks

[Kirk Herander]

All,

I have a 6 year old ballasted roof system in which about 50% of the solid
cap blocks(16"L x 8"w x 4"D) are cracked and crumbing, some are close to
rubble. I assume it was a bad batch, but has anyone seen this before? What
might be the preventive remedy in the future? A coating of some sort?

 

Kirk Herander

Owner|Principal, VT Solar, LLC 

Celebrating our 27th Anniversary 1991-2018

www.vermontsolarnow.com

dba Vermont Solar Engineering

NABCEPTM  2003 Inaugural Certificant

VT RE Incentive Program Partner

802.863.1202

 

 

 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Xantrex XW4548 Grid tie sell and charge wildly out of control

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Way too many issues when you mix equipment manufacturers.  Do you want
torture?


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


Dave John BlittersdorfDave
> Hello Group.
> I have a customer with an XW4548 grid tied with a Classic 200 CC, 16
> Evergreen ES-A210's,
> 8 Interstate L16 Batteries, with generator backup.  We have had issues
> with
> it not selling, selling and then charging at high rates way beyond the
> settings.  This has been an ongoing problem for 6 years and currrently are
> 18 months into the 2nd battery pack and showing depleted battery life.
> Xantrex tech support says that the battery capacity is too small and we
> are
> not setting it up correctly.  Before the first set of batteries had one
> battery explode, we had spent countless hours with their tech support
> trying to get this inverter to behave properly.  Even when going through
> every setting with tech support, we never got it to work quite right.
> Setting to factory defaults did not work. Found that the default
> absorption
> time was 6 hours and the inverter battery charger was pushing up to 75
> amps
> into this battery, then selling at about 40 to 60 amps DC and then
> immediately charging and then selling.  I estimate this battery pack may
> have had thousands of massive charge and discharge cycles... good reason
> for the batteries to be weak now. After a few of these wild cycles, it
> would fault with DC overvoltage.  It would eventually clear the fault and
> do this crazy cycle again.  I programmed the inverter charger to the
> lowest
> setting of 10%,  Lowered the battery capacity setting to 200 ah from 360,
> set the charge timer to not run during the hours we were there.  None of
> these changes made any significant difference.  We also set the maximum
> Sell amps AC down to 3 amps which should have kept it at about 720 watts
> but we were still seeing it sell up to 2500 watts.  Before we reset that,,
> it was selling up to 4000 watts.
>
> Could it be a defective SCP. There is no internet there to allow us to see
> the past performance.
>
> Does anyone have a clue what is going on.  I have worked with Outback
> Radians in this same configuration with no problems at all.  I am about
> ready to rip it off the wall and replace it with a Radian.
>
> John Blittersdorf
> Rob Stubbins Electrical and Solar.
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[RE-wrenches] Outback warranty

[Jay]

Hi all

I have 2 old mate 1’s, pre 4.0 firmware.

I just noticed on a new FNDC paperwork, a statement from OB that states they 
will update any pre 4.0 firmware to latest rev. ( as the FNDC requires 4.0 or 
better. )

When I called OB and talked to tech support, they said no, they wont cover it. 

I’m asking if anyone has another avenue, or advice on how to proceed?

OB charges a lot for the upgrading since Alpha took over, which makes it not 
worth doing. 

Thanks

Jay
Peltz power

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