Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Dana Orzel]

U get what u pay for

 

 

 

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From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Ray
Sent: Tuesday, December 15, 2020 12:21 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

 

Definitely the generator.  Harbor Freight?  4 kW into a 4 kW charger?  What's 
the altitude?   I believe that 4 kW generator is actually only 3.5 kW 
continuous rated.   By the time you derate for altitude, and then account for 
the generator not being built to be a prime power unit, its probably reasonable 
to derate it 50%.  Then yet another thing,  those gennies are 240/120 so you 
only get half the rated power at 120 vac, and it unbalances the load on the 
generator.  Is that Conext 240/ 120 or just 120vac ?   

Its just going to be a head ache for everyone until they buy something much 
better.  They really need something in the 6.5 kW to 9 kW range, and 240 to 120 
transformer if the Conext is not the 240/120 model, so that the generator is 
loaded evenly. 

Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 12/15/20 1:57 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:

Dave,

I would first suspect the generator, not the inverter. Check its output voltage 
and Hz under load. If it's overloading, either (or both) voltage and frequency 
will drop below the acceptable range and the inverter will unlatch its input 
relays, wait for a bit, relatch and ramp up input amps until it again overloads 
and the cycle repeats. You may reduce either (or both) charging amps and 
overall input amps, broaden the frequency and minimum voltage acceptance ranges 
(I don't recommend this), adjust the AC output voltage of the generator, or 
advise them to get a better gennie.

Allan

On 12/15/2020 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Hi All,  

 

I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that their 
Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a sudden 
recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from the generator. It is 
an off grid system. 

 

The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute later 
they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it would just 
keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they could then turn 
it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would start cycling. They 
just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.

 

I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day or 
two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a good 
idea of what to look for first.

 

Thanks!

-Dave


 

Dave Tedeyan, PE

Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC



110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850

o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119

www.taitem.com  

 

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design

Certified B-Corporation since 2013





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  al...@sindelarsolar.com
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New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
505 780-2738 cell

 





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Roy Butler]

  
  
Dave,

You're not far from me, so I know that the temperature at the site
has been well below freezing at night.
After running a series of cheap generators here for many years I can
tell you that there's likely water built up at the bottom of the
fuel tank.
This freezes and constricts fuel flow which of course affects
generator rpm and thus voltage and frequency.

So check for that but as everyone else has said so well, it's the
generator.
Roy Butler
Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC
8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807
607-324-9747  www.four-winds-energy.com

Education is when you read the fine print; experience is what you get when you don’t.

Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, 
a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.



On 12/15/2020 2:17 PM, Dave Tedeyan
  wrote:


  
  From what I understand, they have had the system
for a little over a year, and have not done any maintenance on
the generator.
I was also more suspicious of the generator, and was going
  to try turning down the charging amps to see if the generator
  will work better not being so loaded.


Dave, do you know if the Conext will log an error if the
  relays have actually been damaged? I am hoping that there will
  be something in the error logs that will help identify
  whether there is an inverter issue now, or whether the issue
  lies with the generator input.


Thanks!
  -Dave
  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  


Dave Tedeyan,
  PE
Senior Engineer
| Taitem Engineering, PC

  
110 South Albany
Street |
Ithaca, NY 14850
o. 607.277.1118
  x121  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com


Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design

Certified
  B-Corporation since 2013

  

  

  

  

  

  

  

  
  

  
  
  
On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:01
  PM jay  wrote:


  HI Dave,


Have them turn down the AC input and see if that fixes
  it. 
Sounds like a classic generator issue.
As to why?  When did they last change the oil, air
  filter, fuel filter, spark plug, adjust the valve or some
  electronic issue with the generator. 




jay


peltz power
  

  On Dec 15, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:
  
  
Hi All, 
  
  
  I am going to service a system where the
homeowner is telling me that their Conext SW4048
had been working fine for 14 months, and then
all of a sudden recently stopped being able to
charge the batteries from the generator. It is
an off grid system. 
  
  
  The inverter would start charging the
batteries, but then about a minute later they
would hear a relay 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The log in non volatile memory (if excessive) would show under events
(current and historical) in Gateway for the CSW40408. It might also be in
SCP for the device by scrolling down to view device info, enter, faults and
warnings. There will be dates and fault and warning numbers. 

If this all
worked at one time, I would suspect the genset has drifted off frequency.
Needs to be close to 60 hertz and then when qualified it will follow the
gen frequency. As others have said maybe they are loading it differently. 


A basic gen problem with small sets. Often the easy fix is to tell them
when they start the gen to reduce all discretionary loads for the first
hour or two to charge batteries. Then bring loads on like kitchen and
laundry. 

There are a bunch of other advanced ways to to program charging.
All of this seems to disappear with a quality genset from the usual
suspects. Many of my clients live in places where they do not need the
beast! None here for 20 years!  

If the gen is toast, a nice 2- 3kw gen
can be run into L1 and charge from a 120vac source. Good Luck!  

Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 14:17:23 -0500, Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:  From what I understand, they have had the system for a little over
a year, and have not done any maintenance on the generator. I was also more
suspicious of the generator, and was going to try turning down the charging
amps to see if the generator will work better not being so loaded.   Dave,
do you know if the Conext will log an error if the relays have actually
been damaged? I am hoping that there will be something in the error logs
that will help identify whether there is an inverter issue now, or whether
the issue lies with the generator input.   Thanks!
-Dave
 
DAVE TEDEYAN, PE Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC 110 South Albany
Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com [3]   Solar * Sustainability * Energy * Design Certified
B-Corporation since 2013

  On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:01 PM jay  wrote:  HI
Dave,   Have them turn down the AC input and see if that fixes it.  Sounds
like a classic generator issue. As to why? When did they last change the
oil, air filter, fuel filter, spark plug, adjust the valve or some
electronic issue with the generator.  jay   peltz power

  On Dec 15,
2020, at 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote: 
  Hi All,   I am going to service
a system where the homeowner is telling me that their Conext SW4048 had
been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a sudden recently stopped
being able to charge the batteries from the generator. It is an off grid
system.The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about
a minute later they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop.
Then it would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while,
they could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it
would start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor
Freight.   I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the
next day or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms
and have a good idea of what to look for first.   Thanks! -Dave
   
 DAVE TEDEYAN, PE Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC 110 South
Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com [6]   Solar * Sustainability * Energy * Design Certified
B-Corporation since 2013
 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Chris Sparadeo]

Try having them decreasing the Max Charge Rate to 50% and monitoring the AC
output, specifically looking for spikes and dips in voltage and frequency
via the SCP. Although you can open AC input parameters to allow for dirtier
power to be qualified, I would definitely suggest against this. Sounds like
they need a higher quality generator. Keep in mind that the SW 4048 is a
45A max DC charger.

On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:21 PM Ray  wrote:

> Definitely the generator.  Harbor Freight?  4 kW into a 4 kW charger?
> What's the altitude?   I believe that 4 kW generator is actually only 3.5
> kW continuous rated.   By the time you derate for altitude, and then
> account for the generator not being built to be a prime power unit, its
> probably reasonable to derate it 50%.  Then yet another thing,  those
> gennies are 240/120 so you only get half the rated power at 120 vac, and it
> unbalances the load on the generator.  Is that Conext 240/ 120 or just
> 120vac ?
>
> Its just going to be a head ache for everyone until they buy something
> much better.  They really need something in the 6.5 kW to 9 kW range, and
> 240 to 120 transformer if the Conext is not the 240/120 model, so that the
> generator is loaded evenly.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 12/15/20 1:57 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:
>
> Dave,
>
> I would first suspect the generator, not the inverter. Check its output
> voltage and Hz under load. If it's overloading, either (or both) voltage
> and frequency will drop below the acceptable range and the inverter will
> unlatch its input relays, wait for a bit, relatch and ramp up input amps
> until it again overloads and the cycle repeats. You may reduce either (or
> both) charging amps and overall input amps, broaden the frequency and
> minimum voltage acceptance ranges (I don't recommend this), adjust the AC
> output voltage of the generator, or advise them to get a better gennie.
>
> Allan
> On 12/15/2020 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that
> their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a
> sudden recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from the
> generator. It is an off grid system.
>
> The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute
> later they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it
> would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they
> could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would
> start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.
>
> I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day
> or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a
> good idea of what to look for first.
>
> Thanks!
> -Dave
>
> *Dave Tedeyan, PE*
> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
>
> 110 South Albany Street
> 
>  |
> Ithaca, NY 14850
> 
> o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
> www.taitem.com
>
> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
> Certified B-Corporation since 2013
>
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> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 cell*
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Ray]

Definitely the generator.  Harbor Freight?  4 kW into a 4 kW charger?  
What's the altitude?   I believe that 4 kW generator is actually only 
3.5 kW continuous rated.   By the time you derate for altitude, and then 
account for the generator not being built to be a prime power unit, its 
probably reasonable to derate it 50%.  Then yet another thing,  those 
gennies are 240/120 so you only get half the rated power at 120 vac, and 
it unbalances the load on the generator.  Is that Conext 240/ 120 or 
just 120vac ?


Its just going to be a head ache for everyone until they buy something 
much better.  They really need something in the 6.5 kW to 9 kW range, 
and 240 to 120 transformer if the Conext is not the 240/120 model, so 
that the generator is loaded evenly.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 12/15/20 1:57 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:


Dave,

I would first suspect the generator, not the inverter. Check its 
output voltage and Hz under load. If it's overloading, either (or 
both) voltage and frequency will drop below the acceptable range and 
the inverter will unlatch its input relays, wait for a bit, relatch 
and ramp up input amps until it again overloads and the cycle repeats. 
You may reduce either (or both) charging amps and overall input amps, 
broaden the frequency and minimum voltage acceptance ranges (I don't 
recommend this), adjust the AC output voltage of the generator, or 
advise them to get a better gennie.


Allan

On 12/15/2020 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Hi All,

I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that 
their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all 
of a sudden recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from 
the generator. It is an off grid system.


The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a 
minute later they would hear a relay click and the charging would 
stop. Then it would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off 
for a while, they could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 
minutes before it would start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw 
generator from Harbor Freight.


I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next 
day or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms 
and have a good idea of what to look for first.


Thanks!
-Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. _607.277.1118 x121_  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 

Solar •Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013

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--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Dave Tedeyan]

>From what I understand, they have had the system for a little over a year,
and have not done any maintenance on the generator.
I was also more suspicious of the generator, and was going to try turning
down the charging amps to see if the generator will work better not being
so loaded.

Dave, do you know if the Conext will log an error if the relays have
actually been damaged? I am hoping that there will be something in the
error logs that will help identify whether there is an inverter issue now,
or whether the issue lies with the generator input.

Thanks!
-Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013


On Tue, Dec 15, 2020 at 2:01 PM jay  wrote:

> HI Dave,
>
> Have them turn down the AC input and see if that fixes it.
> Sounds like a classic generator issue.
> As to why?  When did they last change the oil, air filter, fuel filter,
> spark plug, adjust the valve or some electronic issue with the generator.
>
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
> On Dec 15, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that
> their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a
> sudden recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from the
> generator. It is an off grid system.
>
> The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute
> later they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it
> would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they
> could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would
> start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.
>
> I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day
> or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a
> good idea of what to look for first.
>
> Thanks!
> -Dave
>
> *Dave Tedeyan, PE*
> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
>
> 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
> o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
> www.taitem.com
>
> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
> Certified B-Corporation since 2013
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[jay]

HI Dave,

Have them turn down the AC input and see if that fixes it. 
Sounds like a classic generator issue.
As to why?  When did they last change the oil, air filter, fuel filter, spark 
plug, adjust the valve or some electronic issue with the generator. 


jay

peltz power

> On Dec 15, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan  wrote:
> 
> Hi All, 
> 
> I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that their 
> Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a sudden 
> recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from the generator. It is 
> an off grid system. 
> 
> The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute 
> later they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it 
> would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they 
> could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would 
> start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.
> 
> I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day or 
> two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a good 
> idea of what to look for first.
> 
> Thanks!
> -Dave
> 
> Dave Tedeyan, PE
> Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC
> 
> 110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
> o. 607.277.1118 x121  f. 607.277.2119
> www.taitem.com 
> 
> Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
> Certified B-Corporation since 2013
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Jeff Clearwater]

Try lowering the max charge amps incrementally.


Dave Tedeyan 
December 15, 2020 at 10:14 AM
Hi All,

I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that 
their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all 
of a sudden recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from 
the generator. It is an off grid system.


The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a 
minute later they would hear a relay click and the charging would 
stop. Then it would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off 
for a while, they could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 
minutes before it would start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw 
generator from Harbor Freight.


I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next 
day or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms 
and have a good idea of what to look for first.


Thanks!
-Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. _607.277.1118 x121_  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 

Solar •Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Sindelar Solar]

Dave,

I would first suspect the generator, not the inverter. Check its output 
voltage and Hz under load. If it's overloading, either (or both) voltage 
and frequency will drop below the acceptable range and the inverter will 
unlatch its input relays, wait for a bit, relatch and ramp up input amps 
until it again overloads and the cycle repeats. You may reduce either 
(or both) charging amps and overall input amps, broaden the frequency 
and minimum voltage acceptance ranges (I don't recommend this), adjust 
the AC output voltage of the generator, or advise them to get a better 
gennie.


Allan

On 12/15/2020 11:14 AM, Dave Tedeyan wrote:

Hi All,

I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that 
their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all 
of a sudden recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from 
the generator. It is an off grid system.


The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a 
minute later they would hear a relay click and the charging would 
stop. Then it would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off 
for a while, they could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 
minutes before it would start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw 
generator from Harbor Freight.


I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next 
day or two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms 
and have a good idea of what to look for first.


Thanks!
-Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. _607.277.1118 x121_  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com 

Solar •Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013

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--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

No Sir! Never use a cheap genset on any inverter/charger. It is the best
way to ruin the input relays. 

The alternative is to have a spare DC
charger for use after the inverter/charger has been damaged. Schneider also
logs this for warranty. I would assume that Outback Radian does also? 


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060

On Tue, 15 Dec 2020 13:14:15 -0500, Dave Tedeyan 
wrote:  Hi All,   I am going to service a system where the homeowner is
telling me that their Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months,
and then all of a sudden recently stopped being able to charge the
batteries from the generator. It is an off grid system.The inverter
would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute later they
would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it would just
keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they could then
turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would start
cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.   I
have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day or
two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a
good idea of what to look for first.   Thanks! -Dave
  DAVE
TEDEYAN, PE Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC 110 South Albany
Street | Ithaca, NY 14850 o. 607.277.1118 x121 f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com [3]   Solar * Sustainability * Energy * Design Certified
B-Corporation since 2013
  

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
http://www.taitem.com
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[RE-wrenches] Conext SW4048 not charging from generator

[Dave Tedeyan]

Hi All,

I am going to service a system where the homeowner is telling me that their
Conext SW4048 had been working fine for 14 months, and then all of a sudden
recently stopped being able to charge the batteries from the generator. It
is an off grid system.

The inverter would start charging the batteries, but then about a minute
later they would hear a relay click and the charging would stop. Then it
would just keep cycling. If they turned everything off for a while, they
could then turn it back on and charge for maybe 10 minutes before it would
start cycling. They just have a crappy 4kw generator from Harbor Freight.

I have not laid my own eyes on it yet, but will be there in the next day or
two. Just wondering if anyone has experienced these symptoms and have a
good idea of what to look for first.

Thanks!
-Dave

*Dave Tedeyan, PE*
Senior Engineer | Taitem Engineering, PC

110 South Albany Street | Ithaca, NY 14850
o. *607.277.1118 x121*  f. 607.277.2119
www.taitem.com

Solar • Sustainability • Energy • Design
Certified B-Corporation since 2013
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