Re: [RE-wrenches] XW Pro multi-inverter

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Hi Kent, 

I appreciate the sound tip on the water fill jug! OK, there
is an issue here and I did a temporary fix. There is 1.10 firmware that was
supposed to be out at xmas. It is coming and they know about this. 

I
assume you have other devices? Mppts, Bat mon, or SCP. and the Gateway! Let
me know. I used all of the XW's on one xanbus and the rest of the devices
on the other xanbus. This was approved by Schneider. 

They are trying to
get the XWP to run 3 phase ASAP and I assume that this has gone to the side
burner. 

What firmware and is this grid or offgrid? Have you escalated
this to Schneider? They need to hear from you! 

Back in the AM, going to
the big city of Mariposa  

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where
powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 15:08:58
-0800, Kent Osterberg  wrote:   Have any wrenches out there installed a
Schneider XW Pro multi-inverter setup with three inverters per the
multi-inverter design guide [3]? I've got one installed per the manual and
am having a devil of a time getting it to stay latched onto the generator
with the external contactor. Can't even get it to stay latched on with no
load. All advise on getting this to work is appreciated.

 Kent Osterberg

Blue Mountain Solar

Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3]
https://solar.schneider-electric.com/download/xw-pro-iec-technical-publications/?ind=13539&filename=XW-Pro-Multi-unit-Design-Guide-990-91373.pdf&wpdmdl=10327&refresh=6024628387f561612997251
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[RE-wrenches] XW Pro multi-inverter

[Kent Osterberg]

Have any wrenches out there installed a Schneider XW Pro multi-inverter 
setup with three inverters per the multi-inverter design guide 
? 
I've got one installed per the manual and am having a devil of a time 
getting it to stay latched onto the generator with the external 
contactor. Can't even get it to stay latched on with no load. All advise 
on getting this to work is appreciated.


Kent Osterberg
Blue Mountain Solar
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Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Thanks Sky! 

I can think of a few other uses in a fire if I needed
something less destructive than a common fire extinguisher. Please let us
know if you hear more and costing info.   
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we
go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Wed, 10 Feb 2021 14:59:00
-0500, Sky Sims  wrote:   I don't see any indications that MLSD is making
solar safer. It's increasing system cost and maintenance expense but the
safety benefits haven't revealed themselves to me yet. Adding all the extra
components increases the risk of failure in the system and increases the
time our technicians have to spend on the roof. This extra time on the roof
reduces overall safety for the installers. Also as per lussers' law, the
system is only as reliable as the least reliable component times the
reliability of all the other components in the system. By doubling the
number of connections with MLSD we're increasing the likelyhood of system
failure and exposing ourselves to a potential for increased downtime and
lower productivity, this means a technician may have to spend more time on
the roof dealing with maintenance issues and less time bringing more
production online. Additionally, any potential safety benefit from MLSD
hinges on the product performing properly, and if that product fails (which
we see regularly) then it could create a false sense of safety for the
people and firefighters that makes them less safe than they would be if the
MLSD was not present at all. 
With that said, I recently became aware of a
product called PVSTOP that looks like it may be a real solution to the
concerns for firefighter safety in the event of a fire, that actually
guarantees the panels are de-energized. Apparently it's been used in
australia for some time now. It's fairly inexpensive and the cost will
likely come down further as they continue to achieve economies of scale.
https://www.pv-stop.com/ [3]   Your thoughts are appreciated, Sky Sims
https://EcologicalSystems.org [4] 732-462-3858 f)732-462-3962 "Just an old
wrench" 
  On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:55 AM jay  wrote:  HI Andrew,   I've
been pondering your comments, and I hope you can elaborate on why you don't
think MLPE has anything to do with firefighter safety?  And I guess I lump
into the firefighter safety, homeowner safety as well.As to the code
meeting. I have it on pretty good info that a very senior member of the the
NEC was pushing MLPE. It is true that the string inverter OEM's pushed back
hard and that is why for the first time(?) a code rule had a 2 year delay
in implantation of the NEC 2017.   Thanks   jay   peltz power   

  On Feb
4, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Solar Energy Solutions  wrote: 
  Dear All,  
I apologize for letting this conversation get a little stale before being
able to comment further.   Before I reply, I would like to say I don't
believe MLSD has anything to do with firefighter safety. If being on
dangerous roofs was really a concern, steep roofs, slate roofs, metal roof,
wet metal or shake roofs and snow on roofs would get the same kind of
scrutiny as solar on roofs. I can only guess and think that some HUGE solar
hating utility company devised this whole firefighter safety thing. It is
also my understanding none of the string inverter folk turned up to the
code development meetings where MLSD was determined and you can guess who
was. But much of this is only rumor and the dark thoughts of a solar bozo. 
I HATE the hassle and maintenance issues of MLSD. I loved string inverters
and hated to see them go. So far as I can tell the US is the only place on
planet Earth to make String inverters all but illegal. This said... a
picture is worth a thousand words. All of the attached photos of systems
had the wire management done very well. If you look at the metal roof photo
you can see a small hole in it from the arc. I have many more photos of
different squirrel damaged systems. Ground Fault protection has saved the
inverters, but not the roofs.   I don't really like the idea of squirrel
guards. It seems like I may be creating another problem down the road that
I can't really imagine. Debris build up could be an issue. Rainwater could
back up from a damn and get under shingles and into the cavity of the
house. For me the easiest thing that could be done is for some kind of a
bittering agent to be part of the wires so that one little lick would send
a critter looking for a better food source.Your Friendly Neighborhood
Solar Man, https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0
[7] Fire 2.JPG [8]

FIRE 2.JPG

 Shared with Dropbox 

   
https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0 [9]Fire
3.JPG [10]

FIRE 3.JPG

 Shared with Dropbox 

Fire 4.JPG [11]   


FIRE 4.JPG

 Shared with Dropbox 

Fire 5 Voltair the culprit.jpg
[12]

FIRE 5 VOLTAIR THE CULPRIT.JPG

 Shared with Dropbox 

  Metal
Roof Squirrel damage

Re: [RE-wrenches] MLSD module level shutdown

[Sky Sims]

I don't see any indications that MLSD is making solar safer. It's
increasing system cost and maintenance expense but the safety benefits
haven't revealed themselves to me yet. Adding all the extra components
increases the risk of failure in the system and increases the time our
technicians have to spend on the roof. This extra time on the roof reduces
overall safety for the installers. Also as per lussers' law, the system is
only as reliable as the least reliable component times the reliability of
all the other components in the system. By doubling the number of
connections with MLSD we're increasing the likelyhood of system failure and
exposing ourselves to a potential for increased downtime and lower
productivity, this means a technician may have to spend more time on the
roof dealing with maintenance issues and less time bringing more production
online. Additionally, any potential safety benefit from MLSD hinges on the
product performing properly, and if that product fails (which we see
regularly) then it could create a false sense of safety for the people and
firefighters that makes them less safe than they would be if the MLSD was
not present at all.
With that said, I recently became aware of a product called PVSTOP that
looks like it may be a real solution to the concerns for firefighter safety
in the event of a fire, that actually guarantees the panels are
de-energized. Apparently it's been used in australia for some time now.
It's fairly inexpensive and the cost will likely come down further as they
continue to achieve economies of scale. https://www.pv-stop.com/

Your thoughts are appreciated,
Sky Sims
https://EcologicalSystems.org 
732-462-3858  f)732-462-3962
"Just an old wrench"

On Fri, Feb 5, 2021 at 11:55 AM jay  wrote:

> HI Andrew,
>
> I’ve been pondering your comments, and I hope you can elaborate on why you
> don’t think MLPE has anything to do with firefighter safety?
> And I guess I lump into the firefighter safety, homeowner safety as well.
>
> As to the code meeting.  I have it on pretty good info that a very senior
> member of the the NEC was pushing MLPE.  It is true that the string
> inverter OEM’s pushed back hard and that is why for the first time(?) a
> code rule had a 2 year delay in implantation of the NEC 2017.
>
> Thanks
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
>
>
> On Feb 4, 2021, at 12:49 PM, Solar Energy Solutions <
> solarenergysoluti...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> Dear All,
>
> I apologize for letting this conversation get a little stale before being
> able to comment further.
>
> Before I reply, I would like to say I don't believe MLSD has anything to
> do with firefighter safety.  If being on dangerous roofs was really a
> concern, steep roofs, slate roofs, metal roof, wet metal or shake roofs and
> snow on roofs would get the same kind of scrutiny as solar on roofs.  I can
> only guess and think that some HUGE solar hating utility company devised
> this whole firefighter safety thing.  It is also my understanding none of
> the string inverter folk turned up to the code development meetings where
> MLSD was determined and you can guess who was.But much of this is only
> rumor and the dark thoughts of a solar bozo.
>
> I HATE the hassle and maintenance issues of MLSD.  I loved string
> inverters and hated to see them go.  So far as I can tell the US is the
> only place on planet Earth to make String inverters all but illegal.  This
> said... a picture is worth a thousand words.  All of the attached photos of
> systems had the wire management done very well.  If you look at the metal
> roof photo you can see a small hole in it from the arc.  I have many more
> photos of different squirrel damaged systems.  Ground Fault protection has
> saved the inverters, but not the roofs.
>
> I don't really like the idea of squirrel guards.  It seems like I may be
> creating another problem down the road that I can't really imagine.  Debris
> build up could be an issue.  Rainwater could back up from a damn and get
> under shingles and into the cavity of the house.  For me the easiest thing
> that could be done is for some kind of a bittering agent to be part of the
> wires so that one little lick would send a critter looking for a better
> food source.
>
> Your Friendly Neighborhood Solar Man,
>
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0
> Fire 2.JPG 
>
> Fire 2.JPG
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/3g5c57nqke9x7b2/Fire%201.JPG?dl=0
> Fire 3.JPG 
>
> Fire 3.JPG
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> Fire 4.JPG 
>
> Fire 4.JPG
> Shared with Dropbox
> 
> Fire 5 Voltair the culprit.jpg

Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Specific Gravity versus Electrolyte Level

[Kent Osterberg]

I have also found that the Plews battery filler works well for most L16 
batteries. One does need to be careful in recommending it because there 
are some batteries that it fills higher than the recommended amount. 
Also, be aware that this type of filler will continue to fill a bit 
after the electrolyte level reaches the end of the nozzle. One trick to 
using properly it is to listen to the way it is bubbling. When the sound 
changes, it is time to stop.


Kent Ostberberg
Blue Mountain Solar



On 2/10/2021 10:22 AM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar wrote:


The Plews Lubrimatic  water fill jug (not a blue one) is a fine tool 
for watering L16's. It is very accurate and the valve can be cleaned, 
I have used them on hundreds off offgrid battery systems from 
Surrette, US battery, Trojan, and Crown.


I am mostly using US battery because they get my clients batteries 
fast in the days of C19. No other reason BTW.


I tell my clients to count when the water starts flowing. This gives 
them an idea of how much water goes in. It is typically about 15 
seconds on a good battery that is checked monthly. By counting, you 
also get an idea if the valve were to stick and you can then look at 
the level to avoid over filling.



  Plews 75-030 Black Plastic 2-Quart Professional Battery Filler

https://www.amazon.com/Plews-LubriMatic-2-Quart-Professional-Automatic/dp/B000RFUF12/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_0/141-3602947-2036416?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000RFUF12&pd_rd_r=3b8d6086-8f88-4063-8925-6cf0143abd82&pd_rd_w=3oZSb&pd_rd_wg=uDOW9&pf_rd_p=16b28406-aa34-451d-8a2e-b3930ada000c&pf_rd_r=TBAZ6QJE6RH6RTKQCH6Q&psc=1&refRID=TBAZ6QJE6RH6RTKQCH6Q

  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
 e-mail offgridso...@sti.net 
 text 209 813 0060*


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Specific Gravity versus Electrolyte Level

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

The Plews Lubrimatic water fill jug (not a blue one) is a fine tool for
watering L16's. It is very accurate and the valve can be cleaned, I have
used them on hundreds off offgrid battery systems from Surrette, US
battery, Trojan, and Crown. 

I am mostly using US battery because they get
my clients batteries fast in the days of C19. No other reason BTW. 

I tell
my clients to count when the water starts flowing. This gives them an idea
of how much water goes in. It is typically about 15 seconds on a good
battery that is checked monthly. By counting, you also get an idea if the
valve were to stick and you can then look at the level to avoid over
filling. 

PLEWS 75-030 BLACK PLASTIC 2-QUART PROFESSIONAL BATTERY
FILLER

https://www.amazon.com/Plews-LubriMatic-2-Quart-Professional-Automatic/dp/B000RFUF12/ref=pd_lpo_263_t_0/141-3602947-2036416?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B000RFUF12&pd_rd_r=3b8d6086-8f88-4063-8925-6cf0143abd82&pd_rd_w=3oZSb&pd_rd_wg=uDOW9&pf_rd_p=16b28406-aa34-451d-8a2e-b3930ada000c&pf_rd_r=TBAZ6QJE6RH6RTKQCH6Q&psc=1";>Dave
Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines
don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net
[2]
text 209 813 0060


Links:
--
[1]
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2] mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol ark 120v issues

[Nick A Lucchese]

I agree with many of you on waiting awhile longer until these issues are sorted 
out. While I definitely think there is plenty of room beyond our usual 
favorites for another robust battery based inverter to offer I don’t intend to 
embark on another frustrating adventure at mostly my expense. At this point I’m 
more excited for the Midnite inverters more than anything and know once they’re 
released I won’t feel like I made a mistake. Meanwhile I’ll definitely be 
sending wishes of success to Sol-Ark. I’ve heard a lot of good things and will 
remain optimistic and hopeful it’s shortcomings will be resolved soon without 
needing to stack multiple units or a transformer.

Nick A Lucchese

> On Feb 9, 2021, at 12:17 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar 
>  wrote:
> 
> Yes that has happened with 2 of mine Jerry.  I like the Transformer Devils 
> that I know. Might check these out in 2 or 3 years. The whole all in one does 
> not really appeal to me either but I will keep an open mind, in 2 or 3 years! 
> 
>  
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060
> On Tue, 9 Feb 2021 10:19:44 -0800, Jerry Shafer  
> wrote:
> 
>> It is also interesting how sol ark sells over the counter to end users and 
>> also through distributors but at nearly the same price so it makes it 
>> difficult for our distributors to carry the sol ark products.
>> Jerry
>> 
>> On Tue, Feb 9, 2021, 7:42 AM Jay > > wrote:
>> It is odd that the 12kw 20kw surge sol ark can't run a 15 amp 120v air 
>> compressor
>> 
>> I saw a you tube video from what appears to be a pretty well versed 
>> installer who mentioned that sol ark knows this is an issue and specifically 
>> mentioned that his small air compressor will shut his 12kw inverter down. He 
>> didn't mention if there is a fix coming. 
>> 
>> I guess I'll wait to buy one until they have that issue sorted out. 
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
>> Peltz power. 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
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