Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

[Dan Fink]

Jeremy - I second your positive opinion of the propane Honda Twin GX-6xx
engines for generator use, and I'm also intrigued by the Wildcat product
using them for that reason. I have a client with a 10+ year old Coleman
(back when they made real generators!) 9.5 kW propane generator with the
Honda GX-620 engine that has been almost trouble-free since installation.
And just about any Honda dealer will service it, though house calls are
still an issue. We did have to pull it and take it in when the homeowner's
son cross-threaded a spark plug during a routine service, but it was easy
enough to pick up slung beneath a tractor bucket, the engine has 2 decent
hoisting eyebolts.

Dan Fink
Owner, Buckville Energy Consulting LLC
IREC Certified Instructor for PV and Small Wind Installation
NABCEP Certified PV System Inspector
NABCEP PV Associate
d anbo...@gmail.com
970-672-4342




On Tue, Oct 19, 2021 at 5:05 PM Jeremy Coxon 
wrote:

> I have had good luck with Koehler 12kWRES and 15kW propane units lasting
> well over 10yrs in off grid usage. A couple of which I know have only had
> bare minimum maintenance, i.e. oil changes and filters etc.  I have a
> couple larger (~20kW) off grid systems that have 25kW Diesel Koehler
> units.  One of which runs biodiesel made on site, but we put that unit
> inside an insulated garage which was a PITA to maneuver into place.  The
> first winter in operation the start battery went bad which meant the main
> bank wasn’t charged during frigid weather.  Luckily I had required the
> owner to build a subsurface battery room (walk out basement below the power
> shed), so they didn’t freeze.  Bottom line, unless your customer is very
> mechanically savvy, I would not recommend diesel due to 1) need for block
> heating and starter charging parasitic losses, 2) need for clean dry fuel.
>
> I gotta say I am intrigued by this Wildcat Generator company’s website.
> They’re using Honda engines for their smaller units which are extremely
> reliable and well built, but for charging an off grid system I really would
> prefer a small displacement propane/NG fueled (very clean operation and
> much easier all weather starting) inline water cooled 4 cyl running at
> 1800rpm - and if it can be DC coupled that would be awesome.  They do have
> liquid cooled units, but I don’t see what their dB levels are or what their
> enclosures look like and the heavy metal music on their vid’s gives me
> pause.  The warranty looks interesting though and they seem to be into
> straight talk so...
>
> My customers have not had good experiences with Generac (only sold a few
> of those for strict standby power w/o PV/battery) or Kohler service or
> parts departments.  They do just enough to maintain a monopoly on their
> parts/service, so I may in fact give this Made in USA newcomer a shot on my
> next Offgrid.
>
> Jeremy Coxon NABCEP
> Certified MWBE
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

[Jeremy Coxon]

I have had good luck with Koehler 12kWRES and 15kW propane units lasting well 
over 10yrs in off grid usage. A couple of which I know have only had bare 
minimum maintenance, i.e. oil changes and filters etc.  I have a couple larger 
(~20kW) off grid systems that have 25kW Diesel Koehler units.  One of which 
runs biodiesel made on site, but we put that unit inside an insulated garage 
which was a PITA to maneuver into place.  The first winter in operation the 
start battery went bad which meant the main bank wasn’t charged during frigid 
weather.  Luckily I had required the owner to build a subsurface battery room 
(walk out basement below the power shed), so they didn’t freeze.  Bottom line, 
unless your customer is very mechanically savvy, I would not recommend diesel 
due to 1) need for block heating and starter charging parasitic losses, 2) need 
for clean dry fuel.  

I gotta say I am intrigued by this Wildcat Generator company’s website.  
They’re using Honda engines for their smaller units which are extremely 
reliable and well built, but for charging an off grid system I really would 
prefer a small displacement propane/NG fueled (very clean operation and much 
easier all weather starting) inline water cooled 4 cyl running at 1800rpm - and 
if it can be DC coupled that would be awesome.  They do have liquid cooled 
units, but I don’t see what their dB levels are or what their enclosures look 
like and the heavy metal music on their vid’s gives me pause.  The warranty 
looks interesting though and they seem to be into straight talk so...  

My customers have not had good experiences with Generac (only sold a few of 
those for strict standby power w/o PV/battery) or Kohler service or parts 
departments.  They do just enough to maintain a monopoly on their 
parts/service, so I may in fact give this Made in USA newcomer a shot on my 
next Offgrid.

Jeremy Coxon NABCEP 
Certified MWBE

Sent from my iPhone
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase IQ7 and IQ Battery 10?

[Great Northern Solar]

Dear Wrenches….

Any one have experience with Enphase IQ7 and IQ Battery 10…

Reliable, long lived?  Programable Storage for more than backup?

Thanks!

C.


Energetically,
Christopher LaForge
Great Northern Solar
77480 Evergreen Road, Suite #1
Port Wing, WI 54865
715-774-3374







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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

[Dana Orzel]

Ray this is {again} what I have experienced  over my solar career with Generac, 
controls that burned, oil leaks, all in all gener-wreak. It is sad to see yet 
another unit dead & almost every offgrid time, “oh you need to bring it in for 
servicer” over & over. 

 

 

 

Dana Orzel  Great Solar Works, Inc. 

C - 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765 Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136 
www.greatsolarworks.com

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Ray 
Walters
Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2021 1:37 PM
To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

 

We've seen such poor reliability with the Ecogens, that we can't recommend them 
anymore.  We've seen as high as 50% failure rates in full time off grid use as 
backup.  Charging batteries for hours is a very hard load and does not compare 
to biweekly exercise mode.  The failures have been fairly catastrophic, 
resulting in blown motors.  

The other issue with these types of pad mounted generators, as Allan just 
mentioned, is that they need to be pulled and taken into the shop for major 
repairs.  This can quickly add another $500 to $1000 to the cost, to have a 
tech with a crane pull it, truck it in, and then reinstall it later.  I'm 
actually just recommending a good quality portable generator for this reason in 
many cases.  At least the customer can take it in themselves if there's a 
problem.

The alternative is to get into the bigger (>20 kW) units with water cooled 
motors and 1800 RPM operation.  I was surprised when I compared fuel 
consumption, the big units can actually use less fuel than an Ecogen when 
charging with dual inverters.  The wildcat is interesting, but I'm not ready to 
recommend a manufacturer I've not heard of before.

Another option I have not tried in cold weather, is diesels.  I have clients in 
warmer places with Kubotas that have offered excellent service.  I have clients 
in Alaska that love their diesels, but I'm not sure what they've done to cold 
proof them.

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

On 10/19/2021 1:13 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:

Gary,
Interesting that you bring up Generac in response to my request. The customer 
for whom I made this request for recommendations has a dead Generac EcoGen 15kW 
at her property now. I don't know what's wrong with it; it had failed before 
she bought the property. But she had it checked out and was turned down for a 
service call at her home, told instead that it would have to come into the shop 
and that basically the cost of repairs was more than replacement cost. So 
another EcoGen isn't likely at this point. 

Even on Generac's website, there are a surprising number of 'one-star' reviews 
for the EcoGen 15 (the EcoGen 6 is discontinued). The one at my own home, an 
early EcoGen 6 that Generac gave me around 2010 in return for evaluation and 
review, had a throttle solenoid fail with relatively few hours on it. So I 
remain cautious about Generac products.

Thanks for your reply, though.
Allan

On 10/17/2021 8:58 AM, Gary F Willett PE wrote:

Allan:


DISCLAIMER: I have no business or financial relationship with any Generac 
dealer.

I have owned two Generac EcoGens in the past 10 years and am pleased with their 
performance. The EgoGen is configurable using an option setting to use either 
LP or NG fuel. It is warranteed for the off-grid environment, with a 500 hour 
recommended interval for routine maintenance.

Even though I live in an urban area, I setup my PV system in the grid-tie 
battery backup configuration. I have always used LP for fuel instead of natural 
gas because of some issues we've had with natural gas reliability here in north 
Texas under extreme winter weather conditions (last one here was in 
mid-February).

I use my EcoGen only as a battery charger in a grid-down situation, it does not 
serve house loads directly. I'll admit that most of the hours on my generator 
are the bi-weekly exercise runs!

I started with the 6kW 240V AC EcoGen as a field trial participant in Generac's 
beta testing of the EcoGen in an off-grid environment in 2010. Later I upgraded 
to the 15kW kW 240V AC model. I very pleased with this model too.

So, consider Generac as an option too.

Regards, Gary 

On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 20:32:35 -0600, Allan Sindelar  
  wrote:
  

Mac, I appreciate your suggestion, thank you. Indeed, I called a longtime 
regional independent generator dealer about this before posting here. I was 
surprised that he has Kohler 12s and 14s in stock and available. I’ll go that 
route if I don’t hear better from our fellow Wrenches. 

Allan

  

On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Mac Lewis   
 wrote:

 

Hi 

[RE-wrenches] Strange noises from the roof

[Jason Szumlanski]

Someone reached out to me who had a PV system installed two years ago by
another contractor on her shingle roof. Almost immediately it started
having loud popping noises intermittently, but pretty consistently day to
day. The homeowner thought it sounded like expansion and contraction. That
made sense, so the original contractor came back multiple times to tighten
things up. The problem never went away and lasted about 6 months until it
was driving her crazy and she had the panels only removed. The sounds
stopped. Legal proceedings ensued. Everything was dropped and she now has
rails up, panels in garage, and no clamps.

The panels have been in her garage for 18 months. I went to inspect today.
She has Quickmount LMount flashings, Ironridge XR100 rails and had UFOs.
The UFOs were tightened so much that they were tearing the t-bolts out of
the top channel of the rail. I don't know if that was from the original
installation or after they came back to try to resolve the issue. The UFOs
had also dug in pretty deeply to the top of the module frames. None of the
glass was broken.

I could not find much evidence of module frames slipping on the rails and
causing marks. The flashings and L-feet are all properly installed in
trusses at 48 or 24-in centers. The square bolts securing the L-feet to
rails are all tight and show no evidence of slippage. The attic looks
great. 5/8 ply over manufactured trusses (southern pine). It's a Gable roof
with about 20 feet eave to ridge. Again, everything looks great in the
attic.

There are two rows of panels. I thought maybe the two rows were rubbing on
each other. But I could not find any evidence on the short sides of the
modules that would suggest this was the problem.

Has anyone seen this issue before? I'm thinking about putting a few test
panels back up with standard mid clamps rather than UFOs just to see if
that changes anything.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

[Ray Walters]

We've seen such poor reliability with the Ecogens, that we can't 
recommend them anymore.  We've seen as high as 50% failure rates in full 
time off grid use as backup.  Charging batteries for hours is a very 
hard load and does not compare to biweekly exercise mode.  The failures 
have been fairly catastrophic, resulting in blown motors.


The other issue with these types of pad mounted generators, as Allan 
just mentioned, is that they need to be pulled and taken into the shop 
for major repairs.  This can quickly add another $500 to $1000 to the 
cost, to have a tech with a crane pull it, truck it in, and then 
reinstall it later.  I'm actually just recommending a good quality 
portable generator for this reason in many cases.  At least the customer 
can take it in themselves if there's a problem.


The alternative is to get into the bigger (>20 kW) units with water 
cooled motors and 1800 RPM operation.  I was surprised when I compared 
fuel consumption, the big units can actually use less fuel than an 
Ecogen when charging with dual inverters.  The wildcat is interesting, 
but I'm not ready to recommend a manufacturer I've not heard of before.


Another option I have not tried in cold weather, is diesels.  I have 
clients in warmer places with Kubotas that have offered excellent 
service.  I have clients in Alaska that love their diesels, but I'm not 
sure what they've done to cold proof them.


Ray Walters

Remote Solar

On 10/19/2021 1:13 PM, Sindelar Solar wrote:

Gary,
Interesting that you bring up Generac in response to my request. The 
customer for whom I made this request for recommendations has a dead 
Generac EcoGen 15kW at her property now. I don't know what's wrong 
with it; it had failed before she bought the property. But she had it 
checked out and was turned down for a service call at her home, told 
instead that it would have to come into the shop and that basically 
the cost of repairs was more than replacement cost. So another EcoGen 
isn't likely at this point.


Even on Generac's website, there are a surprising number of 'one-star' 
reviews for the EcoGen 15 (the EcoGen 6 is discontinued). The one at 
my own home, an early EcoGen 6 that Generac gave me around 2010 in 
return for evaluation and review, had a throttle solenoid fail with 
relatively few hours on it. So I remain cautious about Generac products.


Thanks for your reply, though.
Allan

On 10/17/2021 8:58 AM, Gary F Willett PE wrote:

Allan:

DISCLAIMER: I have no business or financial relationship with any 
Generac dealer.


I have owned two Generac EcoGens in the past 10 years and am pleased 
with their performance. The EgoGen is configurable using an option 
setting to use either LP or NG fuel. It is warranteed for the 
off-grid environment, with a 500 hour recommended interval for 
routine maintenance.


Even though I live in an urban area, I setup my PV system in the 
grid-tie battery backup configuration. I have always used LP for fuel 
instead of natural gas because of some issues we've had with natural 
gas reliability here in north Texas under extreme winter weather 
conditions (last one here was in mid-February).


I use my EcoGen only as a battery charger in a grid-down situation, 
it does not serve house loads directly. I'll admit that most of the 
hours on my generator are the bi-weekly exercise runs!


I started with the 6kW 240V AC EcoGen as a field trial participant in 
Generac's beta testing of the EcoGen in an off-grid environment in 
2010. Later I upgraded to the 15kW kW 240V AC model. I very pleased 
with this model too.


So, consider Generac as an option too.

Regards, Gary


On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 20:32:35 -0600, Allan Sindelar 
 wrote:
Mac, I appreciate your suggestion, thank you. Indeed, I called a 
longtime regional independent generator dealer about this before 
posting here. I was surprised that he has Kohler 12s and 14s in stock 
and available. I’ll go that route if I don’t hear better from our 
fellow Wrenches.

Allan

On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:

Hi Allan,
I suggest finding a local long-standing generator technician and see 
if they can help provide the generator.  We see so many generators 
bought online with no way to get service because there are no local 
and qualified service technicians to service that brand.  If you buy 
from a local technician, or at least ask for their advise, it may 
allow you to get service in the future (maybe).
We have had good success with Kohler 14 RESA or RCA machines, they 
do have off grid warranties, but good luck getting them now.

Let us know what you decide.
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 4:42 PM MD Electric & Solar 
 wrote:


Check out Wildcat Generators, hand built in Kansas.
I just placed my first order for one. 10KW LPG 1800RPM liquid
cooled, built to run 24/7. They even make a DC (battery direct)
generator.
You can purchase through a master dealer in the Reno Nevada
area, Freds Mountain Electric:

Re: [RE-wrenches] Generator recommendation request

[Sindelar Solar]

Gary,
Interesting that you bring up Generac in response to my request. The 
customer for whom I made this request for recommendations has a dead 
Generac EcoGen 15kW at her property now. I don't know what's wrong with 
it; it had failed before she bought the property. But she had it checked 
out and was turned down for a service call at her home, told instead 
that it would have to come into the shop and that basically the cost of 
repairs was more than replacement cost. So another EcoGen isn't likely 
at this point.


Even on Generac's website, there are a surprising number of 'one-star' 
reviews for the EcoGen 15 (the EcoGen 6 is discontinued). The one at my 
own home, an early EcoGen 6 that Generac gave me around 2010 in return 
for evaluation and review, had a throttle solenoid fail with relatively 
few hours on it. So I remain cautious about Generac products.


Thanks for your reply, though.
Allan

On 10/17/2021 8:58 AM, Gary F Willett PE wrote:

Allan:

DISCLAIMER: I have no business or financial relationship with any 
Generac dealer.


I have owned two Generac EcoGens in the past 10 years and am pleased 
with their performance. The EgoGen is configurable using an option 
setting to use either LP or NG fuel. It is warranteed for the off-grid 
environment, with a 500 hour recommended interval for routine maintenance.


Even though I live in an urban area, I setup my PV system in the 
grid-tie battery backup configuration. I have always used LP for fuel 
instead of natural gas because of some issues we've had with natural 
gas reliability here in north Texas under extreme winter weather 
conditions (last one here was in mid-February).


I use my EcoGen only as a battery charger in a grid-down situation, it 
does not serve house loads directly. I'll admit that most of the hours 
on my generator are the bi-weekly exercise runs!


I started with the 6kW 240V AC EcoGen as a field trial participant in 
Generac's beta testing of the EcoGen in an off-grid environment in 
2010. Later I upgraded to the 15kW kW 240V AC model. I very pleased 
with this model too.


So, consider Generac as an option too.

Regards, Gary


On Sat, 16 Oct 2021 20:32:35 -0600, Allan Sindelar 
 wrote:
Mac, I appreciate your suggestion, thank you. Indeed, I called a 
longtime regional independent generator dealer about this before 
posting here. I was surprised that he has Kohler 12s and 14s in stock 
and available. I’ll go that route if I don’t hear better from our 
fellow Wrenches.

Allan

On Oct 16, 2021, at 7:29 PM, Mac Lewis  wrote:

Hi Allan,
I suggest finding a local long-standing generator technician and see 
if they can help provide the generator.  We see so many generators 
bought online with no way to get service because there are no local 
and qualified service technicians to service that brand.  If you buy 
from a local technician, or at least ask for their advise, it may 
allow you to get service in the future (maybe).
We have had good success with Kohler 14 RESA or RCA machines, they do 
have off grid warranties, but good luck getting them now.

Let us know what you decide.
Thanks
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021, 4:42 PM MD Electric & Solar 
 wrote:


Check out Wildcat Generators, hand built in Kansas.
I just placed my first order for one. 10KW LPG 1800RPM liquid
cooled, built to run 24/7. They even make a DC (battery direct)
generator.
You can purchase through a master dealer in the Reno Nevada area,
Freds Mountain Electric:
https://fredsmountain.com/
https://wildcatpowergen.com/
On Fri, Oct 15, 2021 at 3:37 PM Sindelar Solar
 wrote:

Wrenches,
Generators have become a moving target, especially for off
grid applications. Most are set up for grid backup, and I'm
assuming that many may simply be unavailable, given that half
of most everything else is on back-order with no expected
delivery date... I'm seldom asked to recommend a generator
these days, but I am today, so I'm requesting recommendations
from other off grid-savvy Wrenches, please.

I'm working with an older (2014?) existing dual Outback
VFX3524 system which will be upgraded to dual VFXR-3648s to
work with a 16kW Blue Ion LiFP battery bank; 4kW array with
upgrade infrastructure in place to later add 2kW more if
needed. Once the upgrade is done I expect relatively little
generator runtime. The customer would prefer LP fuel and
2-wire start (for remote control). Pretty much any
well-regarded model in the 8-14 kW @240 VAC rating range
could work.

Thank you for your suggestions!
Allan
-- 


*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com 
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

-- 
Michael D