Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

Michael,

Any pictures of that bracing system pre battery mount would be greatly
appreciated.

Christopher

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 3:21 PM Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> We hang a lot of AES on wooden stud walls. Our engineer prescribed the
> following: 1-5/8" strut bolted to every stud in the span. AES factory
> mounting brackets bolted with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and thick strut cone nuts.
> Then a support brace 3-1/4" strut which is (2) welded back to back 1-5/8"
> struts (think beam) supported by the same 3-1/4" strut (think legs) with
> strut post bases and plate connectors for connections. He said "now way" to
> relying on studs for anything beyond two batteries.
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 5:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES
>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud
>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost
>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other
>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that
>> would inform my decision.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
>> might help?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Chris
>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
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> --
>
> Michael Morningstar
>
>
> Morningstar Electric
>
> PO Box 1494
>
> Mount Shasta, CA 96067
>
> 530-921-0560
>
> mjmornings...@gmail.com
>
>
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-- 

Chris Schaefer’s


*Tel/Fax 585-229-2083 or Cell 585-748-1870 *
*5115 South Hill Road ~ Canandaigua New York 14424**www.solarandwindfx.com
 ~ E-mail: ch...@solarandwindfx.com
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willing to work and give to those who would not."
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Michael Morningstar via RE-wrenches]

We hang a lot of AES on wooden stud walls. Our engineer prescribed the
following: 1-5/8" strut bolted to every stud in the span. AES factory
mounting brackets bolted with 3/8" grade 8 bolts and thick strut cone nuts.
Then a support brace 3-1/4" strut which is (2) welded back to back 1-5/8"
struts (think beam) supported by the same 3-1/4" strut (think legs) with
strut post bases and plate connectors for connections. He said "now way" to
relying on studs for anything beyond two batteries.

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 5:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries
> on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a
> bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of
> battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install
> photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would
> inform my decision.
>
> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
> might help?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Chris
> --
> Chris Sparadeo
>
>
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
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-- 

Michael Morningstar


Morningstar Electric

PO Box 1494

Mount Shasta, CA 96067

530-921-0560

mjmornings...@gmail.com
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[RE-wrenches] PID buggers

[Marco Mangelsdorf via RE-wrenches]

Aloha all,
For those of us solar peeps who have installed positive grounded SunPower
mods years ago that require grounding in order to perform properly, I/we
have been impatiently waiting for SunPower or *someone* to offer a device
(see attached) to allow for the pairing of positively ground arrays to
transformerless inverters (such as  the SMA SB US-41).
Has anyone out there had the opportunity to beta test this bugger in the
field?  If so, I'm very interested in feedback, please.
Mahalo,
marco


Datasheet-PIDbox-Mini-Indoor-Outdoor-EN.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I agree with James here.  I will relate a "funny" story about a neighbor 
mounting a large Elk antler rack on his wall with lags. Worked fine, 
till one night they heard a big crash, and the antlers had pulled the 
wall stud right out of the wall into the living room. The 2x 4 came 
right out of  the rest of the wall, the couple of nails at the top plate 
were not enough.


I'd say either you beef up all your stud to stud connections with 
serious reinforcing angle brackets, or just use a floor rack. That's way 
too much weight to hang on a wall.  I think its actually really bad 
design, and don't understand why battery manus would even make wall 
mounts.  It brings up a 2nd question, which is how to make all the 
connections without having exposed cables.


I'd actually consider something like  the Fortress instead.

On 9/6/2022 8:38 AM, James Jarvis via RE-wrenches wrote:
Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure 
mode. You can use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll 
find that accurately defining the constraints on the structural 
members is the most troublesome.

https://webstructural.com/

Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds 
of dead load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown 
fasteners into unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I 
would do it on a poured concrete wall, but this sounds like it is 
asking for trouble.



-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
http://www.aprsworld.com/


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each
when constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a
limiting factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting
one would not be a bad idea.


Jason


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo
 wrote:

Thanks Jason,

I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight.
The Discover manual only states:

“ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must
be mounted onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to
support a minimum of 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to
follow these instructions can result in death or serious injury.”

Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure
that the wall is rated to 4,500 lbs?

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via
RE-wrenches  wrote:

That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across
several studs. Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the
installation manual for details. The shear and pull out
strength of the fasteners will be the limiting factor, not
the wall itself unless very poorly constructed.


https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via
RE-wrenches  wrote:

Hi all,

I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9
Discover AES batteries on a wall. Each battery is
around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a bulky
2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging
almost a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea.
I’ve seen it done in other install photos, however I
can’t seem to find and good building code that would
inform my decision.

Does anyone out there have a building code reference
or experience that might help?

Thanks!

-Chris
-- 
Chris Sparadeo



C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[pieter offgridenterprises.org via RE-wrenches]

Having witnessed the aftermath of others who have installed batteries by 
bolting brackets to wood stud walls, my advice is do not do it! You reinforce 
the structure prior to mounting the batteries but failing to do could result in 
a catastrophic failure. When in doubt consult with your friendly local engineer 
who can properly evaluate your plans.

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
James Jarvis via RE-wrenches
Sent: Tuesday, September 6, 2022 9:38 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: James Jarvis 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure mode. You can 
use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll find that accurately 
defining the constraints on the structural members is the most troublesome.
https://webstructural.com/

Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds of dead 
load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown fasteners into 
unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I would do it on a poured 
concrete wall, but this sounds like it is asking for trouble.


-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
http://www.aprsworld.com/


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when 
constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting factor. 
But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be a bad idea.


Jason


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo 
mailto:sparadeo.ch...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Thanks Jason,

I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover 
manual only states:

“ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted onto a 
vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of 227 kg (500 
lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can result in death or 
serious injury.”

Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall is 
rated to 4,500 lbs?

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs. Even 
2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details. The shear 
and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting factor, not the 
wall itself unless very poorly constructed.

https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
Hi all,

I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries on a 
wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a bulky 
2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of battery on 
the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install photos, however I 
can’t seem to find and good building code that would inform my decision.

Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that might 
help?

Thanks!

-Chris
--
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[James Jarvis via RE-wrenches]

Buckling of the wall studs is most likely going to be the failure mode. You
can use WebStructural to look at different designs. You'll find that
accurately defining the constraints on the structural members is the most
troublesome.
https://webstructural.com/

Personally, I don't think that supporting a couple of thousand pounds of
dead load hanging off the sides of $2 studs fastened with unknown fasteners
into unknown top and bottom plates is a super great idea. I would do it on
a poured concrete wall, but this sounds like it is asking for trouble.


-James Jefferson Jarvis
APRS World, LLC
+1-507-454-2727
http://www.aprsworld.com/


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:30 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> 2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when
> constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting
> factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be
> a bad idea.
>
>
> Jason
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Jason,
>>
>> I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover
>> manual only states:
>>
>> “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted
>> onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of
>> 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can
>> result in death or serious injury.”
>>
>> Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall
>> is rated to 4,500 lbs?
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs.
>>> Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details.
>>> The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting
>>> factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed.
>>>
>>>
>>> https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf
>>>
>>> Jason Szumlanski
>>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Hi all,

 I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES
 batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud
 wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost
 a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other
 install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that
 would inform my decision.

 Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
 might help?

 Thanks!

 -Chris
 --
 Chris Sparadeo


 C_802-369-4458
 H_802-728-3059

>>> ___
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 ___
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>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

2x4 studs have compressive force to hold up over 1,000 pounds each when
constructing a load bearing wall, so I don't think that is a limiting
factor. But I am not a structural engineer, so consulting one would not be
a bad idea.


Jason


On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 10:21 AM Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:

> Thanks Jason,
>
> I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover
> manual only states:
>
> “ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted
> onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of
> 227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can
> result in death or serious injury.”
>
> Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall
> is rated to 4,500 lbs?
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs.
>> Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details.
>> The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting
>> factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed.
>>
>>
>> https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf
>>
>> Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES
>>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud
>>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost
>>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other
>>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that
>>> would inform my decision.
>>>
>>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
>>> might help?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Chris
>>> --
>>> Chris Sparadeo
>>>
>>>
>>> C_802-369-4458
>>> H_802-728-3059
>>>
>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches]

Thanks Jason,

I’m still wondering if there is an IBC reference for weight. The Discover
manual only states:

“ For structural and seismic stability, the AES Battery must be mounted
onto a vertical supporting surface strong enough to support a minimum of
227 kg (500 lbs) per battery. Failure to follow these instructions can
result in death or serious injury.”

Other than asking a structural engineer, how can I be sure that the wall is
rated to 4,500 lbs?

On Tue, Sep 6, 2022 at 9:20 AM Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs.
> Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details.
> The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting
> factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed.
>
>
> https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf
>
> Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group
>
>
>
> On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES
>> batteries on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud
>> wall is a bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost
>> a ton of battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other
>> install photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that
>> would inform my decision.
>>
>> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
>> might help?
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> -Chris
>> --
>> Chris Sparadeo
>>
>>
>> C_802-369-4458
>> H_802-728-3059
>>
> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Jason Szumlanski via RE-wrenches]

That won't be a problem as long as they are spread across several studs.
Even 2x4 studs would be fine. Check the installation manual for details.
The shear and pull out strength of the fasteners will be the limiting
factor, not the wall itself unless very poorly constructed.

https://assets.discoverbattery.com/documents/03_aes/805_product_manual/gui-aes-wall-mount-bracket-installation-guide.pdf

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Tue, Sep 6, 2022, 8:59 AM Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries
> on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a
> bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of
> battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install
> photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would
> inform my decision.
>
> Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
> might help?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -Chris
> --
> Chris Sparadeo
>
>
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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[RE-wrenches] Discover AES Wall Mount Considerations

[Chris Sparadeo via RE-wrenches]

Hi all,

I have a project where I am contemplating hanging 9 Discover AES batteries
on a wall. Each battery is around 200 lbs, and although the stud wall is a
bulky 2”x6” with 16” OC…I have apprehensions that hanging almost a ton of
battery on the wall is a good idea. I’ve seen it done in other install
photos, however I can’t seem to find and good building code that would
inform my decision.

Does anyone out there have a building code reference or experience that
might help?

Thanks!

-Chris
-- 
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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