Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue
Wrenches, Howie As SOC climbs the rate of current will reduce current flow, what was the SOC when you had both connected and configured master slave with in the batteries Fun times On Wed, Nov 16, 2022 at 9:59 PM Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > Good Evening, > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs > connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a > legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery > system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, > programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and > things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW > Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the > procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in > the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the > charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty > much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the > communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They > say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, > especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked > to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have > changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage > multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the > first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup > and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase > in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we > turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is > connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. > Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle > the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the > morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will > change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. > > Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a > settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone > over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. > Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the > lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. > > Thanks, > Howie > > *Howie Michaelson**Sun Catcher* > > *NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™* > > *Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service802-272-0004* > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the > other: > https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > http://www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue
I'm thinking of Fortress to replace older Lead acid batts for a customer right now. My LI - LFP experience is with Blue Planet - Blue Ion both high and low voltage. Yes they are expensive. And IMO they easily overlooked a simple, integrated display with just the basics for off-grid customers. Namaka and even egauge is way overkill for the average off-gridder. That said, I'm not encouraged by the Fortress comments I'm seeing here either. I'd rather just use them with an OB radian, which I know best. Thoughts on Radian with Fortress? Thanks. On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 5:15 PM Ray Walters via RE-wrenches < re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote: > I really think that the Fortress battery could easily be the top battery > choice right now, if..they could vastly improve their customer > support. Tom has been great now that he contacted me, but it was weeks of > frustration and no communication before that. Completely unacceptable, > especially for a new emerging technology that we are going to have extra > issues integrating into old systems. I second your assessment of the > integration guides as well. I have a 4 hour round trip to change some > voltage settings.RETURN TRIPS is LOSING $$$!!! > > However, once they cure those issues, the product itself is way beyond > others such as Simpliphi or Blue Ion. > > Blue Ion = half a day of assembly and cell wiring, monitoring is by E-gage > (AC only) through the customer's router, price way too high > > Fortress = remove crating material from pallet and roll into place, with > built in color touch screen for monitoring, price much better. > > Simpliphi = no monitoring at all, have to parallel ridiculous qty of > batteries to do a normal off grid home, but integration guides are the best. > > Ray Walters > On 11/17/2022 1:16 PM, r...@solartechvt.com wrote: > > We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations lately > as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the integration > guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – absolute nonsense, > I believe most of which has been pulled from the Fortress site now. The > variation in charge parameters for the inverter vs the charge controller > for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense either. Lack of generator > start/stop parameters in the integration guides have resulted in trial and > error programming on our part to zero in on what works best. > > > > Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet peeves > in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, unlike net > metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing their electrical > bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge working. > > > > > > *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > ] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters > via RE-wrenches > *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM > *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > *Cc:* Ray Walters > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue > > > > Talk to Thomas Honey. He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable > wrench. He has stepped in on my issue. > > Ray > > On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: > > Good Evening, > > > > I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs > connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a > legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery > system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, > programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and > things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW > Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the > procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in > the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. > > > > Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the > charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty > much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the > communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They > say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, > especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked > to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have > changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage > multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the > first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup > and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase > in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). > > > > This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we > turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is > connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommen
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue
I really think that the Fortress battery could easily be the top battery choice right now, if..they could vastly improve their customer support. Tom has been great now that he contacted me, but it was weeks of frustration and no communication before that. Completely unacceptable, especially for a new emerging technology that we are going to have extra issues integrating into old systems. I second your assessment of the integration guides as well. I have a 4 hour round trip to change some voltage settings.RETURN TRIPS is LOSING $$$!!! However, once they cure those issues, the product itself is way beyond others such as Simpliphi or Blue Ion. Blue Ion = half a day of assembly and cell wiring, monitoring is by E-gage (AC only) through the customer's router, price way too high Fortress = remove crating material from pallet and roll into place, with built in color touch screen for monitoring, price much better. Simpliphi = no monitoring at all, have to parallel ridiculous qty of batteries to do a normal off grid home, but integration guides are the best. Ray Walters On 11/17/2022 1:16 PM, r...@solartechvt.com wrote: We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations lately as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the integration guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – absolute nonsense, I believe most of which has been pulled from the Fortress site now. The variation in charge parameters for the inverter vs the charge controller for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense either. Lack of generator start/stop parameters in the integration guides have resulted in trial and error programming on our part to zero in on what works best. Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet peeves in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, unlike net metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing their electrical bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge working. *From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Ray Walters via RE-wrenches *Sent:* Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org *Cc:* Ray Walters *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue Talk to Thomas Honey. He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable wrench. He has stepped in on my issue. Ray On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: Good Evening, I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide
Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue
We’ve started to use Fortress batteries for off grid installations lately as well. The tech support has been very frustrating and the integration guides are ridiculous – the Magnum guide was the worst – absolute nonsense, I believe most of which has been pulled from the Fortress site now. The variation in charge parameters for the inverter vs the charge controller for the Outback guide doesn’t make sense either. Lack of generator start/stop parameters in the integration guides have resulted in trial and error programming on our part to zero in on what works best. Poor tech support on battery based systems is one of my biggest pet peeves in the industry………off grid customers rely on their equipment, unlike net metered installations it’s not just a matter of reducing their electrical bill it’s about keeping the lights on and the fridge working. From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Ray Walters via RE-wrenches Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2022 1:43 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Cc: Ray Walters Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Sol-Ark/Fortress charging issue Talk to Thomas Honey. He is the Fortress rep, nice guy, and knowledgeable wrench. He has stepped in on my issue. Ray On 11/16/2022 10:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote: Good Evening, I have a frustrating charging issue involving 2 Fortress eVault Maxs connected to a Sol-Ark 15k. Commissioned the system last week, replacing a legacy off-grid Dual Stack SunnyIsland 5048s and 2-volt Rolls battery system. Initially, we connected one of the eVaults to the Sol-Ark, programmed it to Fortress' and Sol-Ark's specs, setup closed loop, and things seemed fine. The battery charged at around 95 amps off the 20kW Kohler. The next day we connected the 2nd eVault, went through the procedures as Fortress suggested, made the necessary settings changes in the Sol-Ark, and that is when the issue started. Ever since we connected the 2nd eVault, we have not been able to get the charge rate much above a combined total of 35 amps. Fortress has pretty much said that it can't be anything on their end (although the communication with them has been very much limited and frustrating). They say that nothing on their side would limit the charge rate to that low, especially if the batteries were in a lower state of charge. We've talked to at least 3 different Sol-Ark technicians more than once. We have changed the setting between closed loop, % SOC, and Battery Voltage multiple times. We've tried dropping back to a single battery, both the first one we had connected and the second one (changing the battery setup and the Sol-Ark parameters, but have only seen at times a moderate increase in maximum charge rate (up to about 40 amps total). This small increase happened after a Fortress technician suggested that we turn on both the generator and the grid charging toggles (the generator is connected to the grid port on the Sol-Ark as per Sol-Ark's recommendation. Sol-Ark has run out of suggestions at the moment, and are having us cycle the batteries tonight and they will start another charge cycle in the morning to see if having a lower SOC along with the firmware reload will change anyhing (I don't think it will - it didn't the last several times. Has anybody seen this type of behavior before? I don't think it is a settings issue, as several technicians have gone through them, I have gone over them many times using the Fortress/Sol-Ark integration white papers. Hoping to get higher level tech involved ASAP, since I don't feel like the lower level techs know enough to provide useful ideas. Thanks, Howie Howie Michaelson Sun Catcher NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™ Image removed by sender. Solar Electric Systems Sales & Service 802-272-0004 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: http://www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other: https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
