Re: [RE-wrenches] Ironridge ballasted BX on the ground

[Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches]

Nick,

  In New Mexico it was popular on flat roof homes to lay down pressure 
treated 4x4's and lag your L-feet onto these then weight them down with 
cinder blocks filled with concrete, this would be an inexpensive 
temporary option.


   Carl Hansen

   Hansen Electric

On 2024-04-09 2:58 PM, AE Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
Are helical piles overkill for what you are trying to do? They can be 
unscrewed when you are done so nothing is left behind.


Adam Katzman (he/him)
Autonomous Energies | Owner/Operator
www.AutonomousEnergies.com <http://www.autonomousenergies.com>
(518) 567-1468



On Tue, Apr 9, 2024 at 4:17 PM Nick A Lucchese via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Greetings Wrenches,

Has anyone utilized any ballasted style commercial roof rack
solutions directly on the ground? I have an upcoming project that
is only predicted to be left in place for around 5 years and is on
land expected to be put back as it was found therefore concrete is
out of the question. I’ve successfully made temporary arrays with
standard rails and tilts by pinning 2x wood material to grade but
this one calls for something lower in profile. Very minimal use is
expected during winter months so the lower production of a 10
degree tilt is not an issue. The Ironridge BX seems like it would
be ideal and have been told at conferences and distributor shows
that it would work but figure one of you may have experience with
this product or something more appropriate and affordable? Perhaps
even go for the bonus of something with a 15 degree tilt if it
exists? I realize weeds and grasses will be a factor as well but
client can come up with many low tech solutions for that aspect.
The grade is quite flat, few rocks and site prep can certainly
improve even more before the project begins.

Thanks for the wisdom and experience, Nick






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Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches]

Howie,

  Signature Solar gives there dealers a Tech email address and they are 
prompt to return communications, I've had several phone communications 
with them also that mostly went well, a year ago I didn't always get 
techs with a lot of experience and were less than helpful. I haven't had 
any failures of any kind yet, they tell me the BMS can be replaced in 
the field and I'm disappointed there are Wrenches reporting warranty issues.


 I've also worked with the Trophy Battery, they use high quality Eve 
Cells, when you call the number on the website the owner and designer of 
the battery answers the phone, Dan Keaton is great at answering 
questions, the Trophy website has extensive lithium battery information 
and battery manuals. The battery comes with a 10 year non-prorated 
warranty and the BMS is replaceable in the field.


 Carl Hansen

On 2024-02-18 1:58 PM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:

Carl,
Thanks for the update. That is encouraging!
My other major concern at this point is all the very negative comments 
to be found on the web about Signature's horrible, very bad, no good 
Tech Support and service.  It is true that the internet is littered 
with disgruntled comments about anything and everything, but many of 
these stories (including ones on the wrenches) are fairly specific and 
disheartening.  I assume by the fact that you continue to install 
their batteries, that that has not been your experience?


Howie Michaelson


On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 3:16 PM Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi Howie,

 I've continued to install EG4 LL V2 batteries for clients, I
originally purchased a bank of EG4 V1's for my own system to
experiment with before recommending them to clients, I quickly
ended up with 7 clients with them and all the installs are
performing without issues, these are all OFF GRID without comms
between the battery and inverter, I'm keeping them above freezing
with insulated battery box's and heating pads when necessary,
Cooling may be more of an issue in some outdoor shed installs
because of summer heat in central N.M.

 One thing that came up that had me concerned was Signature solar
Techs started recommending 3 or 4 deep discharge cycles, down to
20% SOC when commissioning the batteries, this was so that the BMS
could learn what the normal operating range would be for the
battery as to prevent early low voltage shut down events, I
thought this was going to be too burdensome for off grid clients
or for me,  a few clients didn't mind doing that commissioning
recommendation but most haven't done it and there hasn't been any
issues.

 The EG4 LL V2 has a ten year prorated warranty, it has UL
ratings, it has fire suppression pads in them that will melt down
on top of the battery at high temps if they are mounted in a flat
orientation, I have a few clients with the EG4 rack cabinet but
most are mounted face up in the original insulated L16 or Surrette
industrial cell battery box's, Signature solar has said this
orientation will not void the warranty or effect operation of the
battery.

  Carl Hansen

  Hansen Electric  505 470-0770


On 2024-02-18 10:34 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:


All,

Thanks for the thoughts and feedback about EG4 and Lithium in
general. I'm disappointed to see the overall negative feedback
about EG4, but not overly surprised. I was hoping to hear from
folks who previously had decent things to say about them (E.G.
Peter Giroux, Carl Hansen) would chime in with updated reviews. I
have been seduced into using relatively new products that
promised to improve upon "sliced bread" before, only to more
times than not, end up fruI'strated with wasted time and reputation.

For our work in VT, LiFePO4 batteries, so far, are enough of an
improvement over lead acid (particularly for Off-Grid), that if
the client is willing to spend the money, I encourage them to go
that route.  There are certainly plenty of on going issues with
many of these relatively new products, some larger headaches than
I'm happy about. On balance however, my calculus leans heavily
toward advantage Lithium. We can make work-arounds for most of
the immediate problems, and their documentable efficiency and low
maintenance (along with fewer holes in my clothes) win the
argument for me.

I have yet to see a BMS failure, but I'm sure I'll have the
chance to solve that problem. I'm also annoyed that the inverter
sales teams have chosen to market the new hybrid inverters as
compatible with Lead-Acid, because as has been noted, as they
currently are configured, Lead-Acid management has been a mostly
a slipshod afterthought. There are several other areas they will
need to focus before I would deem the ready-for-prime-time.
However, as best 

Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

[Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches]

Hi Howie,

 I've continued to install EG4 LL V2 batteries for clients, I 
originally purchased a bank of EG4 V1's for my own system to experiment 
with before recommending them to clients, I quickly ended up with 7 
clients with them and all the installs are performing without issues, 
these are all OFF GRID without comms between the battery and inverter, 
I'm keeping them above freezing with insulated battery box's and heating 
pads when necessary, Cooling may be more of an issue in some outdoor 
shed installs because of summer heat in central N.M.


 One thing that came up that had me concerned was Signature solar Techs 
started recommending 3 or 4 deep discharge cycles, down to 20% SOC when 
commissioning the batteries, this was so that the BMS could learn what 
the normal operating range would be for the battery as to prevent early 
low voltage shut down events, I thought this was going to be too 
burdensome for off grid clients or for me,  a few clients didn't mind 
doing that commissioning recommendation but most haven't done it and 
there hasn't been any issues.


 The EG4 LL V2 has a ten year prorated warranty, it has UL ratings, it 
has fire suppression pads in them that will melt down on top of the 
battery at high temps if they are mounted in a flat orientation, I have 
a few clients with the EG4 rack cabinet but most are mounted face up in 
the original insulated L16 or Surrette industrial cell battery box's, 
Signature solar has said this orientation will not void the warranty or 
effect operation of the battery.


  Carl Hansen

  Hansen Electric  505 470-0770


On 2024-02-18 10:34 AM, Howie Michaelson via RE-wrenches wrote:


All,

Thanks for the thoughts and feedback about EG4 and Lithium in general. 
I'm disappointed to see the overall negative feedback about EG4, but 
not overly surprised. I was hoping to hear from folks who previously 
had decent things to say about them (E.G. Peter Giroux, Carl Hansen) 
would chime in with updated reviews. I have been seduced into using 
relatively new products that promised to improve upon "sliced bread" 
before, only to more times than not, end up fruI'strated with wasted 
time and reputation.


For our work in VT, LiFePO4 batteries, so far, are enough of an 
improvement over lead acid (particularly for Off-Grid), that if the 
client is willing to spend the money, I encourage them to go that 
route.  There are certainly plenty of on going issues with many of 
these relatively new products, some larger headaches than I'm happy 
about. On balance however, my calculus leans heavily toward advantage 
Lithium. We can make work-arounds for most of the immediate problems, 
and their documentable efficiency and low maintenance (along with 
fewer holes in my clothes) win the argument for me.


I have yet to see a BMS failure, but I'm sure I'll have the chance to 
solve that problem. I'm also annoyed that the inverter sales teams 
have chosen to market the new hybrid inverters as compatible with 
Lead-Acid, because as has been noted, as they currently are 
configured, Lead-Acid management has been a mostly a slipshod 
afterthought. There are several other areas they will need to focus 
before I would deem the ready-for-prime-time. However, as best I can 
tell, there is intense competition for market share right now, so if 
enough of the installer base pushes for these necessary changes, they 
will do there best to accommodate us.


The areas I see needing significant improvements:

  * Rock solid BMS and and battery-inverter communication (standard
industry wide protocols?)
  * True Lead-Acid programming capabilities
  * More finesse with the AGS controls

And, again, if anyone has recent positive reports about EG4 equipment, 
I'd be happy to hear about them on or off list.


Howie Michaelson
Sun Catcher

On Sat, Feb 17, 2024 at 1:16 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Drake:

I prefer the UnigyII VRLA batteries.  Full river 2 volt L-16s are
pretty good and they allow one string configuration in larger AH
settings.

I agree that as features grow so does complexity. However there is
no substitute for good remote monitoring and control.  I can
understand much better the operation of systems with easy access
to historic data and I save a butt-load of driving.  I wish the
Outback and Sunny Island files could be obtained remotely for
better analysis.

William

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of
*Drake Chamberlin via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Saturday, February 17, 2024 9:43 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* drake.chamber...@redwoodalliance.org
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] EG4 Equipment

I fully agree that off grid solar has taken a major downturn. Once
the equipment becam

Re: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery recommendation

[Carl Hansen via RE-wrenches]

 Peter,

  I've also installed a few EG4 rack battery systems, they are working 
out well, tech support is easy to reach, not problems so far, customers 
like the price point. Standard 10 year warranty, company seems pretty 
solid, easy to communicate with.


 Carl Hansen

 Hansen Electric

On 7/13/2023 5:11 PM, Peter Giroux via RE-wrenches wrote:

Jay

   You may want to look at the EG4's. Have been using them for several years 
and they have been great. They just brought out a comms hub that could help 
you. Their racks are great as well. $$ is good, especially compared to Fortress 
and the other.

   Take a look

Thx
Peter Giroux
American Solar

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Jay 
via RE-wrenches
Sent: Thursday, July 13, 2023 6:20 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Lithium battery recommendation

Hi all

I’m
Looking for recommendations for a lithium battery. 48v.  150-200 kWh.
System is probably going to be open comm, as the system has outback equipment. 
That could change but probably not.
Remote monitoring is required even though it is a site with people 24/7.

So far fortress and home grid. Have been recommended to look at.
Blue planet is just too expensive.

And PS. Fortress says that you cannot add batteries after 1 year. This goes 
against everything I thought I understood about lithium.
Any comments about why they say that?
Do others say rhat?

Thanks in advance

Jay



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outdoor rated insulation covering for Solar Water Heating Systems

[Carl Hansen]

Chris, for several years I've been using embossed, rolled aluminum, it 
comes in 4 foot lengths and split 90's and T's are available for it.  We 
get it from the local insulation outfit called Selle Supply, its 
paintable and totally resistant to UV's and birds.  Its custom made for 
the pipe size and insulation thickness and its assembled with short tap 
screws.


Carl Hansen

Hansen Elect.

505 470-0770


On 11/3/2017 9:06 AM, cwarfel wrote:
I would like to add a covering to the Armorflex insulation we 
installed on a solar water heating system. Can anyone recommend a 
manufacturer's product that a reasonably competent person can 
install?  Right now we have wrapped the insulation in UV resistant 
tape, but it doesn't look all that great.  Thank you, Chris





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Racks.

[Carl Hansen]

Hi Jay,   here is the website for Solarrackworks, Jeff Randall's new 
business.


  http://solarrackworks.com/


On 1/10/2017 9:54 PM, Jay wrote:

I can't find the link to Jeff randles new rack company?

Can someone help me out

Thx
Jay
Peltz power.

Sent from my iPhone


On Jan 10, 2017, at 8:31 PM, Ray Walters  wrote:

Hi William;

Your link had a glitch,  I think this should be it?
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_damage.html

We have DP's high wind option which bumped the pole size from 4" to 6" along 
with heavier hardware throughout.  I haven't been to the site yet, but the techs were 
reporting just the module failed and the rack is still good.  I'm going up next week and I'll 
try to figure this out.  This site also has a funnel effect as you mentioned.  Higher ridges 
to the North and South, and this smaller peak between with our rack almost right at the top.
Roof mounts actually do seem to be much better; the wind doesn't get behind it, 
and if the array is set back from the edge,  the side edge of the array isn't 
getting pummeled.
Our failure occurred with an angled wind, not perpendicular.   Your rack failures look 
also to have had uneven loading: the way it twisted that top rail off. I almost wonder if 
these racks aren't hitting some resonance that's causing the rack to twist and torque 
back and forth repeatedly.  You can grab the corner of the array and "pluck" 
it, then watch it bounce back and forth: that's the simple way to determine its harmonic 
resonance.

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760


On 1/10/2017 6:26 PM, William Miller wrote:
Ray:

I can't say I have a solution to your problem, but I can share some photos
of two similar failures in case you can glean any information from them.
See:
http://www.millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/Wind_damage/_wind_dama
ge.html

The first failure is a Zomeworks.  On the same exact spot we tried a DPW
TOP.  Neither could withstand a funnel effect provided by the topography.

At the same location we installed a roof mount as well that has never
failed (to my knowledge, we don't service that customer anymore).

I think if you have terrain that is tilted in the correct direction a
mount that hugs the ground is best.  That is a lay opinion, however.

William



Lic 773985
millersolar.com
805-438-5600

-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2017 2:31 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Solar World Wind Damage

Greetings All;

I just had the dreaded call from one of my higher profile commercial
clients: a remote radio repeater station had modules ripped off the frame
by high winds.
Two  SW285s were damaged.  The wind was strong enough to rip right through
the aluminum side rails.  We had used the proper stainless 1/4"
bolt hardware with washers on the inside, etc.  All the hardware was still
tight, it just tore the aluminum past the washers.  This is not a top down
clamp system, but uses bolts through the mounting holes on the back of the
module.  This was all on a DP rack with high wind option.
In 20 years in business, I've never seen that happen.  Is there a contact
at Solar World?  I'm not getting through on the tech support line I have.
First, I need to know what the wind rating is on the modules blowing from
the back side, and Second, a suggested fix for the remaining modules.
One module was completely ripped from the frame and thrown 30 yds (total
destruction), a 2nd one has cracks in the Aluminum, but has not let go
yet.  I was thinking of adding some angle aluminum on the inside to beef
it up.  IMHO, the frames are pretty thin aluminum compared to older
modules.  I'll share some pics when available.

As always thanks in advance for your comments,

--
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Inverter/AC pump compatibility question

[Carl Hansen]

Allen,
  I have a customer who until recently ran her SQ off of a Trace DR2412 
modified sinewave inverter/charger just fine for 6 or more years. I 
think some folks refer to these inverters as modified square wave.


  Carl
  Hansen Elect.

On 4/25/2016 9:15 PM, Allan Sindelar wrote:

Wrenches,
Has anyone powered a Grundfos SQ or SQE series soft-start AC 
submersible pump from a modified square wave inverter?
I need to run a 1/2 hp 115V AC sub on a 1990-era Heart EMS 2800-12. 
The customer likes his equipment so I'm not encouraging an inverter 
upgrade.

Thank you,
Allan
--

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 cell*

**




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Re: [RE-wrenches] Golf Cart Array

[Carl Hansen]

  Bob-O
   I did that once for a client, I used 3 Yingli 75s , they fit well 
but the array turned out to be to heavy for the Golf Carts roof frame, 
stress cracks started showing up.  I think I still have the 36 volt 
charge controller, built by Solar Converters, it never got installed, if 
you happen to need one its available.


  Carl Hansen
  HansenSun Elect.
  505 470-0770


On 4/11/2014 6:36 PM, Bob-O Schultze wrote:

Esteemed and just steamed Fellows,
I've rebuilt an old dead 36V golf cart and I'd like to put an array on it. The problem is that the 
roof area is only 40 x 65ish and it's 36V. I'm OK with a bit of overhang the 65 
dimension, but not side to side as it will be a head bumper getting in and out. Don't want to put 
anything less than 150W up there and more, of course, is mo betta. Got an MPPT controller embedded 
in so higher voltage is not an issue. My first thought is to find three old M55s which are only 
13 wide, but I'm open to whatever. The beauty of the M55s would be they are UPS-able. So... 
anybody got some? Other suggestions? Got lots of trading stock.
Thanks, Bob-O

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Input Current Imbalance

[Carl Hansen]

I use a Fluke 36 amp clamp and i have to flip the meter to get the 
current flow direction right otherwise I always get a difference like that.


 Carl Hansen

On 5/29/2013 6:48 PM, Chris Mason wrote:

Try rotating the meter so the current flows the other way and see if the
effect is reversed. You probably have to zero the meter.
the current should be the same in every part of the circuit.


On Wed, May 29, 2013 at 8:01 PM, Corey Shalanski 
cshalan...@joule-energy.com wrote:


Wrenches,

I recently noticed something that seems to defy one of my basic
understandings of electrical circuit theory:

Single string input at inverter. Clear skies, full sunlight. With inverter
turned on my clamp meter reads (for example) 5A on positive conductor and
4A on negative conductor.


I've always assumed that the current should be equal at every point in the
circuit.

I've noticed this imbalance on several different inverter brands. Has
anyone else ever observed this? Can someone offer an explanation for this
and satisfy my curiosity?

--
Corey Shalanski
Joule Energy
New Orleans, LA

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Husqvarna 5500 and VFX3524 Compatibility

[Carl Hansen]

 Dan,
   You may be do this as well, but I frequently deal with homeowners 
with inexpensive generators, I find that the Outback and Magnum 
inverters are very tolerant but I do generally have to load the 
generator up to where I want it bulk charging the batteries, then adjust 
the generator speed to dial in the freqency to 60Hz using the throttle 
adj.  screw.
   Do you find the Iota chargers can reach bulk charge voltages, or 
even EQ voltages ?


Carl Hansen

On 1/27/2013 5:15 PM, Dan Fink wrote:
We have run into many problems on very remote sites with various 
really nice, small newer inverter/chargers not accepting waveforms 
from various newer (inverter-based) generators. For example on one 
particular system Honda 1000i works fine, Honda 2000i works fine, 
Honda 3000i and the charger says no. Plug a different Honda 3000i 
into the the same inverter/charger, works fine. After sling-loading 
the Honda there by helicopter. Argh! Inverter makers have been 
very helpful but the settings just can't be tweaked that far, RE 
Wrenches list gurus have been awesomely helpful, Honda not so helpful 
but at least honest.


My service calls by helicopter this year will include an O-scope. I 
really want to get to the bottom of the problem. It plagues us. I like 
Iota  chargers more and more every summer.


--
Dan Fink,
Executive Director;
Otherpower
Buckville Energy Consulting
Buckville Publications LLC
NABCEP / IREC accredited Continuing Education Providers
970.672.4342 (voicemail)




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[RE-wrenches] Classic 150 Fan noise and vibration

[Carl Hansen]

Subject: Classic 150  Fan noise

Wrench's, I need some feedback on the amount noise this controller makes
as compared to the Apollo or Outback. I have found when the CC lives in
a utility room attached to the home the fan vibration from the Outback
80 was too much, it set up a hum that could be heard throughout the
house.  I have found the Apollo to be very quiet.


  Thanks,
Carl
HansenSun Elect.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar product whole sellers with good reputation

[Carl Hansen]

I've been using Conergy for several years and I've had very few 
problems.  I order everything via e-mail or telephone.


Carl
HansenSun Elect.



On 4/25/2012 8:25 AM, Jesse Dahl wrote:

I use Solar Depot and AEE Solar. Solar Depot's website is tough to navigate, 
making orders complicated. AEE has been super easy to use, PO's work great for  
all my online orders, and my Rep gets back to me right away.

I have had some interactions with Backwoods through a past customer and they 
seemed good too.

Jesse

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2012, at 7:25 AM, Christopher Warfelcwar...@entech-engineering.com 
 wrote:


There is one small company in the Northeast that has been very good and that is 
New England Solar. They are mostly off grid, but they always get the orders 
right and get items to me very quickly.  Chris

On 4/24/2012 7:51 PM, Peter Parrish wrote:

Dear William,

I too had a very difficult interaction with DC-Power Systems a couple of
years ago -- before they merged (whatever) with Solar Depot. Since they are
now one and the same company, and it looks like the DC-Power Systems folks
(and their approach to doing business) are asserting control over the
combined entity, I would like to communicate with you off-line.

Please feel free to contact me at peter...@pobox.com and I will do my best
to provide you with a recitation of my travails and their resolution. It
might help you in your present predicament.

Regards,

-Peter



Peter T. Parrish, Ph.D., President
California Solar Engineering, Inc.
820 Cynthia Ave., Los Angeles, CA 90065
CA Lic. 854779, NABCEP Cert. 031806-26
peter.parr...@calsolareng.com
Ph 323-258-8883, Mobile 323-839-6108, Fax 323-258-8885

  
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of William
Miller
Sent: Tuesday, April 24, 2012 4:11 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Solar product whole sellers with good reputation

Friends:

Solar Depot is trying to collect $14,000 from me and I have never ordered a
thing from them. They have refused to acknowledge they have made a mistake. 
They even tried to attach my bond.  I do not recommend anyone do business
with them or DC Power Systems.

Beware of the big wholesalers.

William



At 10:03 AM 4/24/2012, Chris Daum wrote:

I'm a big fan of Sunwize, but then my rep is really good; don't know if
everyone has a good rep.  Hitney is also good.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Interstate L-16 vs Trojan L-16REB

[Carl Hansen]

  I've heard that Lead-calcium batteries do not need Equalization, I 
think because the electrolyte does not contain sulfates so the lead 
plates cannot get sulfated. Although maybe electrolyte stratification is 
still an issue. Can anyone confirm that this info is correct ?


  Carl,

On 2/16/2012 1:32 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:


this confirms what i have also been told by jamie surrette, namely 
that cycling is NOT necessary for flooded


lead- antinimony batteries.

while slightly more expensive, flooded lead-calcium is THE battery 
designed for this kind of use... plus they last longer, and use next 
to no water.


monthly equalizing is a good idea to prevent stratification of the 
electrolyte.


todd

On Thursday, February 16, 2012 8:29am, Larry Crutcher, Starlight 
Solar Power Systems la...@starlightsolar.com said:


John,
Are you including your new RE battery as being acceptable for 
float/standby service without cycling? Since you do not recommend 
cycling your battery, do you also recommend no equalization charge 
when in float/standby use?
Frankly I question the logic of leaving any deep cycle flooded battery 
at a constant float voltage for months or years at a time. Do you have 
test data that will help me overcome my skepticism?

Thank you,
Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems
(928) 342-9103

On Feb 16, 2012, at 9:09 AM, John DeBoever wrote:

Wrenches,
Todd,

Trojan Battery manufactures only true deep-cycling lead-acid 
batteries, from our 4 factories, based in the USA.
Periodic cycling isnota requirement or benefit in achieving longer 
flooded lead acid deep-cycle battery life.


There are some valid reasons to prefer flooded lead-acid deep-cycle 
lead-acid batteries for some residential semi-cycling / semi-floating 
applications.  Typical floating-only applications do not have to 
feature a true deep cycle, although our Trojan products will work 
fine, without requiring periodic cycling. There are some 
batteriesbeing marketed and labeled Deep Cycle that are not, and these 
will be affected by any amount of cycling, which is giving the Lead 
Acid industry a not so good name.


John

*
*



Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] 24 vs. 48

[Carl Hansen]

Another advantage of 24v over 48v is when you have loads that are more 
appropriate at 24v , like DC circulation pumps on solar heating systems, 
The Elsid, Laing and Hartel circ pumps don't come in 48v and the 
Flowlight booster pump 48volt version is too noisy if the pump will live 
in a utility room attached to the house.  I live with a 48v system and I 
ended up adding a Solar converters transformer to knock all my DC loads 
down to 24volt, I had to add a capacitor to the transformer to handle 
the starting surge of the Flowlight, kinda funky and I wouldn't do that 
on a clients system. I usually stick with 24volt battery banks for these 
reasons.


Carl Hansen
HansenSun Elect.

On 1/17/2012 11:38 AM, R Ray Walters wrote:

The only advantages of 24 v are that you can create smaller KWH battery banks, 
and that Bergey's XL.1 was only available in 24 v.
Anytime the design allows, I jump to 48 v.

R. Walters
r...@solarray.com
Solar Engineer




On Jan 17, 2012, at 11:11 AM, Nathan Jones wrote:



Mark,
It would seem to be a wash. As the voltage is halved the amperage is doubled in 
the battery bank. This would seem to require doubling the charging amperage so 
nothing is gained. On a system of any size the 48 volt gets the default nod 
here. Charge controllers handle twice the solar. Parallel battery strings are 
eliminated, or at least held to two. Wire sizing might be reduced on the low 
voltage side of things. And much easier future expansion possibilities, too.
Cheers,
Nathan Jones
Power Source Solar Inc


--
On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 10:56 AM CST Mark Frye wrote:


Not really on topic to Jay's question, but...

Is 48v always better than 24v?

How important is bulk charging current to overall battery life?

In some cases, isn't it better to use a 24v inverter/charger which can
develop a higher charge current for a battery bank that has a higher AH
rating?

Mark Frye
Berkeley Solar Electric Systems
303 Redbud Way
Nevada City,  CA 95959
(530) 401-8024
www.berkeleysolar.com

-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of jay peltz
Sent: Tuesday, January 17, 2012 8:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] battery buss bars

Hi All,

Where do I find buss bars for a battery parallel problem?

I've got to fix a brand new ( not me) system, that has 4 sets of L-16's at
24v.
Yea yea why didn't they go to 48?

So I want to use buss bars to parallel them, and looking for premade ones.

Thanks in advance,

Jay

Peltz power

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Instruction manual / User interface rant

[Carl Hansen]

Ray, without a Mate how do your clients initiate an equalize charge via 
generator ?  Do you just set the Bulk Charge volts at an equalize V level ?


Carl,
solar...@cybermesa.com

On 10/17/2011 10:09 PM, R Ray Walters wrote:
For this and cost reasons ($295!) I almost never offer a MATE on my 
Outback systems. We just keep one on  the truck adjust everything, and 
then pull it.
I've waited for close to 10 years now for the computer interface, so 
you could pull everything up in a Windows screen, click on the 
particular parameter for more info and adjustment.
The Pentametric does that, and its nice except for the old serial 
connection.
William, I'd be interested in being on the manual review board. Do we 
get paid anything or is it sort of like all that unofficial product 
beta testing we've done..


R. Walters
r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com
Solar Engineer




On Oct 17, 2011, at 10:25 PM, m...@hurshtown.com 
mailto:m...@hurshtown.com m...@hurshtown.com 
mailto:m...@hurshtown.com wrote:



I am in full agreement.
The Outback remote darn near needs a college degree to operate.
The sensitive parameters you mentioned should be in the password 
protected area.


Mark

 Original Message 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Instruction manual / User interface rant
From: William Miller will...@millersolar.com
mailto:will...@millersolar.com
Date: Mon, October 17, 2011 7:49 pm
To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Friends:

I just returned home from a long drive to troubleshoot a problem
with an Outback FX system.  I found that the customer, in the
process of using a remote Mate to start the generator, had
inadvertently turned the global charge control setting to off. 
This causes a problem that is very serious but hard to detect: 
The generator will run but it will not charge the batteries.  No

one can know how long ago this was done, but in the meantime the
customers batteries were chronically undercharged.

Just a month ago I found another Outback system where the
customer (or someone from another solar company) had selected
the drop setting from the use menu.  Similar results to the
previous case, but in this situation the customer had to use the
bypass breakers to get power to the house while the batteries did
not charge.

To my mind, this is one of the big problems with all
manufacturers of technical equipment:  Poor user interface.  Who,
in their right mind, would put controls to disable critical
functions in the same menu tree as the control to do a common
place, frequently used function such as starting a generator
remotely?  And the screens are all almost identical.  This is
extremely poor design.

On a similar subject, all off-grid inverter manuals are written
very poorly.  For example, why put the installation instructions
in the front of the manual?  You install a system once, but you
operate it every day.  The installation instructions should be in
the back and the operating instructions in the front (or better
yet, in separate books).  Why are we trying to use the same
manual for the installer as for the user?  A majority of users
need a 4 page manual that includes:  1. how to turn the system on
and off, 2. how to read and interpret a few critical meter
functions, 3. how (and why) to equalize batteries and 4. what to
do when your power goes out.  That's it.  For the few users that
want to know more, they can wade through the installation /
technical manual.

We provide our own checklists to all of our customers to perform
the limited functions described above.  For a sample, see:

file:///D:/William/Web/Dreamweaver/Miller%20Solar/MillerSolar/Services/Support/_support.htmll

file://D/William/Web/Dreamweaver/Miller%2520Solar/MillerSolar/Services/Support/_support.htmll

We provide these instruction sets to our install clients and sell
them to others, including other installers (off list, if you are
interested).

I am volunteering to be on a peer review panel to critique users
manuals for off-grid inverter manufacturer's.  Maybe if a few of
us grey beards look over these manuals before they are printed,
we can get them straightened out.  Anyone else on board?

Rant off.

William Miller

PS:  Any manual not pre-punched for a three hole binder is not
worth the paper it is printed on.

Wm

William Miller
Miller Solar
Voice :805-438-5600
email: will...@millersolar.com mailto:will...@millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com
http://millersolar.com/License No. C-10-773985
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Re: [RE-wrenches] portable freezers

[Carl Hansen]

 Hi Nick,
 Did you ever come across any watt hrs per day info on say the 
Edgestar portable cooler ?  Just got off the phone with Edgestar and 
they didn't have that info, nor were they of any help at all in 
determining that.


   Carl,

On 4/1/2011 10:39 PM, Nick Vida wrote:

Hi Dan,

I am talking about the ice chest looking ones that run on AC or DC 
electric. There are a bunch of brands with pretty similar design. I 
have no idea if any of them are any good. Have you used them? EdgeStar?


thanks,

nick


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[RE-wrenches] Mac compatibility with Modsine

[Carl Hansen]

 Greetings,

   Does anyone know if newer Macintosh computers are still incompatible 
with Modsine inverters, and how about Mac loptops ?


   Thanks,
  Carl Hansen
  HansenSun elect.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] T-240 transformer

[Carl Hansen]

   Hi Jay,
  Any idea what the circumstances were that led to the  demise of 
the T-240 and how the homeowner is going to avoid having that happen again ?

 Carl
 HansenSun Elect.

On 9/17/2010 3:14 PM, jay peltz wrote:

HI all,

I had a customer burn up a T-240 auto former.

Anyone know if you can buy just the replacement transformer and if so whats the 
part number.

I couldn't even find a T-240 on  either Xantrex or Schneider's web sites?

I can fit in a Outback X-240 if needed, I measured but would be nice to the 
have the easy install part.

thanks

jay

peltz power


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[RE-wrenches] Aps 130

[Carl Hansen]

To all wrench's installing or have installed this module, I would recommend 
checking the factory jumper in the j-box, I found several panels that had 
improper crimping on this jumper. In many cases the wire slid out of the lug 
with little or no effort at all.


Carl
HansenSun Electric 


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[RE-wrenches] Astopower 120 failure

[Carl Hansen]

I have a warrantee issue with an Astropower 120, from what I've read it 
seems GE bought them out. Does anyone have contact info at hand for GE ?
 The panel is showing two burn marks on the backing at the point of two 
adjacent solder joints on one cell.


Carl,
HansenSun Electric 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering

[Carl Hansen]

Watermiser caps work the same way as the Hydrocaps and the caps do not need 
to be removed for equalization, per the manufacturer's directions.

Carl
HansenSun Elect.
  - Original Message - 
  From: frenergy 
  To: RE-wrenches ; al...@positiveenergysolar.com 
  Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 9:05 AM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering


  Maybe one way to express it would be hydrocaps are great if you use the the 
same charging parameters no matter what the age, condition of the battery is.  
This seems to be critical to sizing the HCs properly.  And you (or the always 
attentive and willing customer) don't (doesn't) mind removing (and replacing) 
the hydrocaps for every equalization for the rest of eternity.  I wonder if 
part of this debate doesn't center on the frequency of equalizations. Many 
battery brands, systems require more frequent eqs than others. 

  Maybe you can tell I've gone back to regular caps after using HCs 


  Bill
  Feather River Solar Electric

- Original Message - 
From: Bill Loesch 
To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com ; RE-wrenches 
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2009 4:17 AM
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering


Another person's opinion...
With all due respect, Allan, if you understand how the Hydrocap works 
(properly sized, removal when equalizing, as detailed in the instructions) and 
use distilled (or equivalent) water to top off the electrolyte much more 
infrequently than regularly, Hydrocaps provide a close second to a recombinant 
battery at a fraction of the cost of the real thing. Moreover, they are 
reusable (unless you blow them up).

I know of nothing, nothing that competes with the Hydrocap. The yellow flip 
caps provide a marginal convenience in terms of filling, however there is no 
comparison in performance. Have any Homepower articles ever reviewed either of 
these things back in the Dark Ages?

The use of a suitable battery enclosure to contain the potential results of 
_any_ battery mishap should be defacto procedure.

I will send George a copy of this thread and will post his reply, if he 
chooses to comment. I believe it was Windy who commented the biggest hassle of 
the Hydrocaps was dealing with George and evidently Joel can echo that 
experience.

Bill Loesch
Solar 1 - Saint Louis Solar
314 631 1094

MO Licensed Professional Engineer
Saint Louis County (MO) Licensed Water Heater Specialist

  - Original Message - 
  From: Allan Sindelar 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 4:01 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering


  One person's opinion, here...
  Avoid Hydrocaps. You need to remove them to equalize. They can clog up 
and plug the battery up, leading to an explosion from pressure. I have seen it.


  ![endif]-- 
  Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
  NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer
  EE98J Journeyman Electrician
  Positive Energy, Inc.
  3201 Calle Marie
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
  505 424-1112
  www.positiveenergysolar.com



  wind...@wind-sun.com wrote: 
Hydrocaps - they run around $30 each last I checked. We used to sell 
them but gave up when lead times went from weeks to months.


..
Northern Arizona Wind  Sun - Electricity From The Sun Since 1979
Solar Discussion Forum: http://www.wind-sun.com/ForumVB/

..
  - Original Message - 
  From: Andrew Truitt 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Sunday, December 13, 2009 1:07 PM
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Automatic Watering



  Has anyone ever used the recombination caps that combine the released 
hydrogen with oxygen and return the pure water to the cells?  I am considering 
them for a large ([98] 2200Ah Surrettes) battery system that we installed a 
while ago, but I think they run about $200 a piece.  


  Andrew Truitt
  Standard Solar Inc.




  On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Joel Davidson 
joel.david...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

Than you Roy, Jay, Jeff, and ...

I'm glad I checked my email before going to Pep Boys to buy an 
automotive battery filler. Great idea! I've been buying and selling batteries 
for over 35 years and this is the first time I've heard about using a garden 
sprayer to fill batteries. The RE-Wrenches knowledge base scores again!

Happy Holidays.
Joel Davidson




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Re: [RE-wrenches] trenching for solar thermal

[Carl Hansen]

Nik,
We cover our insulated copper pipes with the 4 plastic corrugated 
drain pipe available at Low's or Home Depot. After the pipe's are insulated we 
run this drain pipe from one end to the other. It takes two people, we try to 
avoid using 90 degree fittings instead two 45's or use flex copper. Its hard to 
get the drain pipe around a 90 degree elbow.

  Carl
  HansenSun Elect.
  (505) 470-0770
  - Original Message - 
  From: Nicholas Ponzio 
  To: RE-wrenches 
  Sent: Wednesday, December 02, 2009 12:12 PM
  Subject: [RE-wrenches] trenching for solar thermal


  Esteemed Wrenches,

  What is your preferred method for running thermal lines underground? We are 
about to start a sizable ground-mount system and want to make sure we do this 
right. (I've already seen it done the wrong way, the dirty way, and the hard 
way.)

  Thanks in advance for any feedback.

  Best,
  Nik





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Trace SW Stacking Cable?

[Carl Hansen]

William,

  I used an off the shelf cable to use with the SW and PS remote, it was a 
double male ended  25 pin cable. They were formally used as printer/computer 
cables. I believe the stacking cable is the same style. You could check with 
Xantrex.

  Carl Hansen___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] box fill calcs

[Carl Hansen]

I believe you would just determine the size of the J-Box based on the largest 
sized conduit entering and leaving the box.
Code: 314.28 A 12

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