Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Drake Let me explain, I have worked with the large inverter 4kW and Magnum 4024 AE extensivly, trying to get it right. The Magnum was starting a large motor reliably (in fact it never missed), but the Outback did not start the motor at all well. So I settled on the Magnum, and did little work on this install with the Outback. Yes the Outback and the Magnum caused the DGI inverter to drop out, but I was not understanding what was happening, and I am not sure I got it correct. But with the magnum I was trying to make it work with a 4 kW DGI inverter and it would work fine as long as the solar was not to bright or all the panels were hooked up. I went through several tests with the Magnum (days)and every time it got over 50% the posibility of shutdown. I tried over and over again. I did not do this with the Outback as it turned out, but I have had unexplained bright sun cold modules when near 50% load DGI kickout, with the Outback. I would like to know if the Magnum 4024 PAE would be the same and if two magnums would handle the load, but we are all limited finacially. --- On Mon, 12/27/10, Drake wrote: > From: Drake > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > To: "RE-wrenches" > Date: Monday, December 27, 2010, 9:10 AM > Have you found the 50% capacity true > for Outbacks? I'm considering > AC coupling 2000 watts into a VFX 3524. With the roof > angle, on cold > days, this inverter could get STC solar production easily. > > Drake > > > At 07:53 PM 12/25/2010, you wrote: > >I have answered an eariler email, but in regards to > backfeed, I have > >back feed up to 2kW of grid tied inverter into my > Magnum 4024 AE and > >it held grid specification for the DGI inverter. > Above 2kW into the > >Magnum the Grid tied inverter kicks out on frequency > >specification. Other inverters do the same for > me, cause DGI kick > >out also at about the same level ie about 50% of > capacity. Sorry I > >do not have many examples of this. but I do not have > any contra > >indictating examples. > > > >--- On Thu, 12/23/10, bob ellison > wrote: > > > > > From: bob ellison > > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for > MY RV - Apollo Solar? > > > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > > > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 6:58 PM > > > There are a couple things on the > > > Magnum inverters that you will learn about > > > after using one that really need to be > corrected. > > > DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like > most > > > other inverters. Back > > > feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that > as > > > expensive. > > > > > > Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow > to recover > > > from a voltage > > > drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt > units but I > > > don't have any > > > large loads anymore so I would not see it like > someone with > > > a well pump or > > > other large surge loads. I have had several calls > about > > > this from customers > > > and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems > to depend > > > on the customers > > > attitude, but it can be annoying. > > > > > > At least they are still made here, and the > service is > > > good! > > > > > > Bob Ellison > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] > > > On Behalf Of Brian Faley > > > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:20 PM > > > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY > RV - Apollo > > > Solar? > > > > > > > > > > > > Hi Jeff, > > > > > > Just a couple comments to answer your question > about Magnum > > > inverters. > > > See below. > > > > > > > > Message: 6 > > > > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > > > > From: Jeff Clearwater > > > > To: RE-wrenches > > > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for > MY RV - > > > Apollo Solar? > > > > Message-ID: > > > > > > > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" ; > > > format="flowed" > > > > > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > > > > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do > solar
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Hi Bob, Thanks, jay peltz power On Dec 24, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Bob Ellison wrote: > Know how the lights blink when an inverter gets hit with a heavy load ? > It seems to take them longer to recover than outback or even my 18 y/o heart > interface inverters! > I would not think either problem would be hard to cure, everyone else has > done it ! > > Dom't get me wrong, they are good inverters they just have these 2 warts that > really should be improved > > Merry Christmas, > > > Bob ellison > > > > Sent from my iPod > Bob Ellison > > On Dec 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, jay peltz wrote: > >> Hi Bob, >> >> Thanks for the input. >> >> When you say "slow to recover from a voltage drop" can you be more specific? >> >> jay >> >> peltz power >> > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Have you found the 50% capacity true for Outbacks? I'm considering AC coupling 2000 watts into a VFX 3524. With the roof angle, on cold days, this inverter could get STC solar production easily. Drake At 07:53 PM 12/25/2010, you wrote: I have answered an eariler email, but in regards to backfeed, I have back feed up to 2kW of grid tied inverter into my Magnum 4024 AE and it held grid specification for the DGI inverter. Above 2kW into the Magnum the Grid tied inverter kicks out on frequency specification. Other inverters do the same for me, cause DGI kick out also at about the same level ie about 50% of capacity. Sorry I do not have many examples of this. but I do not have any contra indictating examples. --- On Thu, 12/23/10, bob ellison wrote: > From: bob ellison > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 6:58 PM > There are a couple things on the > Magnum inverters that you will learn about > after using one that really need to be corrected. > DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most > other inverters. Back > feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as > expensive. > > Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover > from a voltage > drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I > don't have any > large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with > a well pump or > other large surge loads. I have had several calls about > this from customers > and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend > on the customers > attitude, but it can be annoying. > > At least they are still made here, and the service is > good! > > Bob Ellison > > > > > -Original Message- > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Faley > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:20 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo > Solar? > > > > Hi Jeff, > > Just a couple comments to answer your question about Magnum > inverters. > See below. > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > > From: Jeff Clearwater > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - > Apollo Solar? > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; > format="flowed" > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for > > oneself after installing for others my whole life! > > > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my > > Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile > > power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > > > I'm considering the following: What > would be better??? > > > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt > > System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a > > 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives > > you think are better? > > > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have > already) & > > 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will > > fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an > > AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish > > module?) > > > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I > wait > > for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will > > be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if > > I use the Apollo inverter below. > > > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 > so > > I could build from the RV. So question is: > > > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 > VAC later OR > > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go > > with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V > loads) > > The Magnum MS4024 is a 120V inverter for AE and mobile > applications. The > MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter for AE > applications. > > > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET > if I go Apollo). > > > > QUESTIONS? > > > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? > Apollo? Magnum? > > Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback > offers > > neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does > > the Magnum?). > > Magnum MS4024 (120V single phase output) has neutral/gnd > switching in > the transfer switch of the inverter.
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Darryl, The backfeed that I was speaking of is feeding AC power into the AC out end of the inverter. It lets the smoke out of the thing and should be protected from what is user stupidity like all the other major inverters out there. Later, Bob -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Darryl Thayer Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2010 7:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? I have answered an eariler email, but in regards to backfeed, I have back feed up to 2kW of grid tied inverter into my Magnum 4024 AE and it held grid specification for the DGI inverter. Above 2kW into the Magnum the Grid tied inverter kicks out on frequency specification. Other inverters do the same for me, cause DGI kick out also at about the same level ie about 50% of capacity. Sorry I do not have many examples of this. but I do not have any contra indictating examples. --- On Thu, 12/23/10, bob ellison wrote: > From: bob ellison > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 6:58 PM > There are a couple things on the > Magnum inverters that you will learn about > after using one that really need to be corrected. > DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most > other inverters. Back > feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as > expensive. > > Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover > from a voltage > drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I > don't have any > large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with > a well pump or > other large surge loads. I have had several calls about > this from customers > and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend > on the customers > attitude, but it can be annoying. > > At least they are still made here, and the service is > good! > > Bob Ellison > > > > > -Original Message- > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Faley > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:20 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo > Solar? > > > > Hi Jeff, > > Just a couple comments to answer your question about Magnum > inverters. > See below. > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > > From: Jeff Clearwater > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - > Apollo Solar? > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; > format="flowed" > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for > > oneself after installing for others my whole life! > > > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my > > Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile > > power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > > > I'm considering the following: What > would be better??? > > > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt > > System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a > > 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives > > you think are better? > > > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have > already) & > > 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will > > fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an > > AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish > > module?) > > > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I > wait > > for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will > > be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if > > I use the Apollo inverter below. > > > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 > so > > I could build from the RV. So question is: > > > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 > VAC later OR > > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go > > with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V > loads) > > The Magnum MS4024 is a 120V inverter for AE and mobile > applications. The > MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter for AE > applications. > > > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET > if I go Apollo). > > > > QUESTIONS? > > > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? &
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
I have answered an eariler email, but in regards to backfeed, I have back feed up to 2kW of grid tied inverter into my Magnum 4024 AE and it held grid specification for the DGI inverter. Above 2kW into the Magnum the Grid tied inverter kicks out on frequency specification. Other inverters do the same for me, cause DGI kick out also at about the same level ie about 50% of capacity. Sorry I do not have many examples of this. but I do not have any contra indictating examples. --- On Thu, 12/23/10, bob ellison wrote: > From: bob ellison > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > To: "'RE-wrenches'" > Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 6:58 PM > There are a couple things on the > Magnum inverters that you will learn about > after using one that really need to be corrected. > DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most > other inverters. Back > feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as > expensive. > > Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover > from a voltage > drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I > don't have any > large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with > a well pump or > other large surge loads. I have had several calls about > this from customers > and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend > on the customers > attitude, but it can be annoying. > > At least they are still made here, and the service is > good! > > Bob Ellison > > > > > -Original Message- > From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] > On Behalf Of Brian Faley > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:20 PM > To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo > Solar? > > > > Hi Jeff, > > Just a couple comments to answer your question about Magnum > inverters. > See below. > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > > From: Jeff Clearwater > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - > Apollo Solar? > > Message-ID: > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; > format="flowed" > > > > Dear Colleagues, > > > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for > > oneself after installing for others my whole life! > > > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my > > Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile > > power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > > > I'm considering the following: What > would be better??? > > > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt > > System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a > > 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives > > you think are better? > > > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have > already) & > > 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will > > fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an > > AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish > > module?) > > > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I > wait > > for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will > > be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if > > I use the Apollo inverter below. > > > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 > so > > I could build from the RV. So question is: > > > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 > VAC later OR > > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go > > with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V > loads) > > The Magnum MS4024 is a 120V inverter for AE and mobile > applications. The > MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter for AE > applications. > > > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET > if I go Apollo). > > > > QUESTIONS? > > > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? > Apollo? Magnum? > > Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback > offers > > neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does > > the Magnum?). > > Magnum MS4024 (120V single phase output) has neutral/gnd > switching in > the transfer switch of the inverter. It is ETL listed to > UL458 (mobile > inverters) AND UL1741. > The MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter intended for > AE use > (non-ground switched) It is ETL listed to UL1741. > > Weight is an iss
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
My experance is pperhaps to limited with Magnum but I have been impressed with the surge capacity of the Magnum AE and I assume the PAE is the same. I have started larger motors than most other inverters, where the others will kick out on low voltage the magnum seems to hold longer. I have measured 270 amps at 24 volts on the input of a Magnum 4024 AE and it stupplying a 70 amp 120 volt load. And this would hold until the large motor would start. I know this is fantastic surge capacity, and my customer is very happy it has only been operation for 6 months but it has never failed to start the motor. I tried my most commom inverter the Outback but two Outback 3524s can not match the reliability of the one Magnum in starting this motor load.I am amazed and puzzled as to how guttzy in starting loads the Magnum is. I am offering a paper on my install at the small wind conference in June at Stevens Point Wisc. if accepted I will help by emailing to interested parties. I have been rejected before because the paper had been presented before. Darryl --- On Fri, 12/24/10, Bob Ellison wrote: > From: Bob Ellison > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > To: "RE-wrenches" > Date: Friday, December 24, 2010, 2:17 PM > Know how the lights blink when an > inverter gets hit with a heavy load ? > It seems to take them longer to recover than outback or > even my 18 y/o heart interface inverters! > I would not think either problem would be hard to cure, > everyone else has done it ! > > Dom't get me wrong, they are good inverters they just have > these 2 warts that really should be improved > > Merry Christmas, > > > Bob ellison > > > > Sent from my iPod > Bob Ellison > > On Dec 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, jay peltz > wrote: > > > Hi Bob, > > > > Thanks for the input. > > > > When you say "slow to recover from a voltage drop" can > you be more specific? > > > > jay > > > > peltz power > > > > > > On Dec 23, 2010, at 4:58 PM, bob ellison wrote: > > > >> There are a couple things on the Magnum inverters > that you will learn about > >> after using one that really need to be corrected. > > >> DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like > most other inverters. Back > >> feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as > expensive. > >> > >> Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to > recover from a voltage > >> drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt > units but I don't have any > >> large loads anymore so I would not see it like > someone with a well pump or > >> other large surge loads. I have had several calls > about this from customers > >> and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems > to depend on the customers > >> attitude, but it can be annoying. > >> > >> At least they are still made here, and the service > is good! > >> > >> Bob Ellison > >> > >> > >> > > > > ___ > > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > > > Options & settings: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List-Archive: > > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > > > List rules & etiquette: > > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > > > Check out participant bios: > > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Know how the lights blink when an inverter gets hit with a heavy load ? It seems to take them longer to recover than outback or even my 18 y/o heart interface inverters! I would not think either problem would be hard to cure, everyone else has done it ! Dom't get me wrong, they are good inverters they just have these 2 warts that really should be improved Merry Christmas, Bob ellison Sent from my iPod Bob Ellison On Dec 24, 2010, at 11:00 AM, jay peltz wrote: > Hi Bob, > > Thanks for the input. > > When you say "slow to recover from a voltage drop" can you be more specific? > > jay > > peltz power > > > On Dec 23, 2010, at 4:58 PM, bob ellison wrote: > >> There are a couple things on the Magnum inverters that you will learn about >> after using one that really need to be corrected. >> DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most other inverters. Back >> feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as expensive. >> >> Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover from a voltage >> drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I don't have any >> large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with a well pump or >> other large surge loads. I have had several calls about this from customers >> and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend on the customers >> attitude, but it can be annoying. >> >> At least they are still made here, and the service is good! >> >> Bob Ellison >> >> >> > > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Hi Bob, Thanks for the input. When you say "slow to recover from a voltage drop" can you be more specific? jay peltz power On Dec 23, 2010, at 4:58 PM, bob ellison wrote: > There are a couple things on the Magnum inverters that you will learn about > after using one that really need to be corrected. > DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most other inverters. Back > feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as expensive. > > Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover from a voltage > drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I don't have any > large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with a well pump or > other large surge loads. I have had several calls about this from customers > and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend on the customers > attitude, but it can be annoying. > > At least they are still made here, and the service is good! > > Bob Ellison > > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
There are a couple things on the Magnum inverters that you will learn about after using one that really need to be corrected. DO NOT backfeed them, they are not protected like most other inverters. Back feed them and BAD THINGS WILL HAPPEN! Read that as expensive. Also the split phase 120/240 inverters are slow to recover from a voltage drop. I have never noticed this on the 120 volt units but I don't have any large loads anymore so I would not see it like someone with a well pump or other large surge loads. I have had several calls about this from customers and it is real. If this is a problem or not seems to depend on the customers attitude, but it can be annoying. At least they are still made here, and the service is good! Bob Ellison -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Brian Faley Sent: Thursday, July 01, 2010 2:20 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? Hi Jeff, Just a couple comments to answer your question about Magnum inverters. See below. > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > From: Jeff Clearwater > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Colleagues, > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for > oneself after installing for others my whole life! > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my > Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile > power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > I'm considering the following: What would be better??? > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt > System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a > 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives > you think are better? > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & > 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will > fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an > AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish > module?) > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait > for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will > be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if > I use the Apollo inverter below. > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so > I could build from the RV. So question is: > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go > with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V loads) The Magnum MS4024 is a 120V inverter for AE and mobile applications. The MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter for AE applications. > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). > > QUESTIONS? > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? > Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback offers > neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does > the Magnum?). Magnum MS4024 (120V single phase output) has neutral/gnd switching in the transfer switch of the inverter. It is ETL listed to UL458 (mobile inverters) AND UL1741. The MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter intended for AE use (non-ground switched) It is ETL listed to UL1741. Weight is an issue as well as > space. MS4024 4kW inverter 55lbs > > 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? > > Thanks for your time! > > Best, > > Jeff C. > > -- > ~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector > http://www.villagepower.com > goso...@villagepower.com > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ? > http://www.nabcep.org/ > > Voice: 831-427-2799 > Fax: 413-825-0703 > 245 Dufour St > Santa Cruz, CA 95060 > ~ Regards, Brian Faley Chief Engineer Magnum Energy, Inc 2211 West Casino Rd, Everett, WA 98204 425-353-8833 voice bfa...@magnumenergy.com www.magnumenergy.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
http://www.bb-battery.com/ they should sell direct. I'd look at the MPL-90 battery, its a sealed deep cycle battery 12 v 90 aH. Make sure and ask for the flag terminal, the post terminals are too small for 2/0 cable. We've used them on grid tie w/ battery backup, and off grid stuff that needed sealed batteries. They have cycle life charts, so you can compare them to other batteries. I recall them having 350 to 400 cycles at 80% DOD, not up with a golf cart battery or L16, but really good for the small sealed battery realm. Definitely will outlast the Optima in deep cycling. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 1, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > HI Ray, > > Yes I meant to say Yellow Tops. They are overpriced - indeed! We've also > had limited success in EV projects. > > Do you have a supplier for B&B? > > Thanks for the tip! > > Best, > > Jeff C. > > > >> See below: >> >> R. Walters >> r...@solarray.com >> Solar Engineer >> >> On Jul 1, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: >> >>> Dear Colleagues, >>> >>> Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for oneself after installing for >>> others my whole life! >>> >>> I'm putting together an small RV system in my Sprinter Van that will also >>> act as a small mobile power platform. SUGGESTIONS? >>> >>> I'm considering the following: What would be better??? >>> >>> Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt System - possibly 24V) (space >>> is limited - it's a 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives you >>> think are better? >> >> Blue tops are a Marine type battery, not their best deep cycle battery, >> which is the yellow top. Personally I think the Optimas are way over >> priced, and they just don't last that long. I've used them in some electric >> vehicle projects. I like B&B for sealed batteries. >> Their spec sheet info is the best I've seen, and prices direct from the >> factory are excellent. >> >>> >>> Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & 1 undetermined 90-120 watt >>> module (all that will fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an AE-90HE, >>> AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish module?) >>> >>> Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait for the Midnight Classic? >>> (A Sunsaver MPPT will be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be >>> dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if I use the Apollo inverter >>> below. >>> >>> Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so I could build from the >>> RV. So question is: >>> >>> A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR >>> B) Apollo TSE2212 OR >>> C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go with a 24V pack and a 24>12 >>> DC>DC for 12V loads) >>> >>> Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). >>> >>> QUESTIONS? >>> >>> 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? >>> >>> 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? Experience? Vibration? >>> Only the Outback offers neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does the >>> Magnum?). Weight is an issue as well as space. >>> >>> 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? >>> >>> Thanks for your time! >>> >>> Best, >>> >>> Jeff C. >>> >>> -- >>> ~~~ >>> Jeff Clearwater >>> Village Power Design >>> >>> Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector >>> http://www.villagepower.com >>> goso...@villagepower.com >>> >>> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ >>> http://www.nabcep.org/ >>> >>> Voice: 831-427-2799 >>> Fax: 413-825-0703 >>> 245 Dufour St >>> Santa Cruz, CA 95060 >>> ~ >>> ___ >>> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >>> >>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> Options & settings: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List-Archive: >>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >>> >>> List rules & etiquette: >>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >>> >>> Check out participant bios: >>> www.members.re-wrenches.org >>> >>> >> >> ___ >> List sponsored by Home Power magazine >> >> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org >> >> Options & settings: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List-Archive: >> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org >> >> List rules & etiquette: >> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm >> >> Check out participant bios: >> www.members.re-wrenches.org > > > -- > ~~~ > Jeff Clearwater Lernould > Village Power Design > > Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector > http://www.villagepower.com > goso...@villagepower.com > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ > http://www.nabcep.org/ > > Voice: 831-427-2799 > Fax: 413-825-0703 > 245 Dufour St > Santa Cruz, CA 95060 >
[RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Hi Jeff, Just a couple comments to answer your question about Magnum inverters. See below. > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2010 06:09:35 -0700 > From: Jeff Clearwater > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar? > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" ; format="flowed" > > Dear Colleagues, > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for > oneself after installing for others my whole life! > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my > Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile > power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > I'm considering the following: What would be better??? > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt > System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a > 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives > you think are better? > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & > 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will > fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an > AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish > module?) > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait > for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will > be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if > I use the Apollo inverter below. > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so > I could build from the RV. So question is: > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go > with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V loads) The Magnum MS4024 is a 120V inverter for AE and mobile applications. The MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter for AE applications. > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). > > QUESTIONS? > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? > Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback offers > neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does > the Magnum?). Magnum MS4024 (120V single phase output) has neutral/gnd switching in the transfer switch of the inverter. It is ETL listed to UL458 (mobile inverters) AND UL1741. The MS4024AE is a 120/240 split phase inverter intended for AE use (non-ground switched) It is ETL listed to UL1741. Weight is an issue as well as > space. MS4024 4kW inverter 55lbs > > 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? > > Thanks for your time! > > Best, > > Jeff C. > > -- > ~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector > http://www.villagepower.com > goso...@villagepower.com > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ? > http://www.nabcep.org/ > > Voice: 831-427-2799 > Fax: 413-825-0703 > 245 Dufour St > Santa Cruz, CA 95060 > ~ Regards, Brian Faley Chief Engineer Magnum Energy, Inc 2211 West Casino Rd, Everett, WA 98204 425-353-8833 voice bfa...@magnumenergy.com www.magnumenergy.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
HI Ray, Yes I meant to say Yellow Tops. They are overpriced - indeed! We've also had limited success in EV projects. Do you have a supplier for B&B? Thanks for the tip! Best, Jeff C. See below: R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 1, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: Dear Colleagues, Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for oneself after installing for others my whole life! I'm putting together an small RV system in my Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile power platform. SUGGESTIONS? I'm considering the following: What would be better??? Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives you think are better? Blue tops are a Marine type battery, not their best deep cycle battery, which is the yellow top. Personally I think the Optimas are way over priced, and they just don't last that long. I've used them in some electric vehicle projects. I like B&B for sealed batteries. Their spec sheet info is the best I've seen, and prices direct from the factory are excellent. Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish module?) Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if I use the Apollo inverter below. Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so I could build from the RV. So question is: A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR B) Apollo TSE2212 OR C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V loads) Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). QUESTIONS? 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback offers neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does the Magnum?). Weight is an issue as well as space. 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? Thanks for your time! Best, Jeff C. -- ~~~ Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector http://www.villagepower.com goso...@villagepower.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer http://www.nabcep.org/ Voice: 831-427-2799 Fax: 413-825-0703 245 Dufour St Santa Cruz, CA 95060 ~ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- ~~~ Jeff Clearwater Lernould Village Power Design Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector http://www.villagepower.com goso...@villagepower.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer http://www.nabcep.org/ Voice: 831-427-2799 Fax: 413-825-0703 245 Dufour St Santa Cruz, CA 95060 ~ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
See below: R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Jul 1, 2010, at 7:09 AM, Jeff Clearwater wrote: > Dear Colleagues, > > Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for oneself after installing for > others my whole life! > > I'm putting together an small RV system in my Sprinter Van that will also act > as a small mobile power platform. SUGGESTIONS? > > I'm considering the following: What would be better??? > > Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt System - possibly 24V) (space is > limited - it's a 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives you think > are better? Blue tops are a Marine type battery, not their best deep cycle battery, which is the yellow top. Personally I think the Optimas are way over priced, and they just don't last that long. I've used them in some electric vehicle projects. I like B&B for sealed batteries. Their spec sheet info is the best I've seen, and prices direct from the factory are excellent. > > Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & 1 undetermined 90-120 watt > module (all that will fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an AE-90HE, > AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish module?) > > Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait for the Midnight Classic? > (A Sunsaver MPPT will be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be > dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if I use the Apollo inverter > below. > > Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so I could build from the RV. > So question is: > > A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR > B) Apollo TSE2212 OR > C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go with a 24V pack and a 24>12 > DC>DC for 12V loads) > > Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). > > QUESTIONS? > > 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? > > 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? Experience? Vibration? > Only the Outback offers neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does the > Magnum?). Weight is an issue as well as space. > > 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? > > Thanks for your time! > > Best, > > Jeff C. > > -- > ~~~ > Jeff Clearwater > Village Power Design > > Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector > http://www.villagepower.com > goso...@villagepower.com > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer ™ > http://www.nabcep.org/ > > Voice: 831-427-2799 > Fax: 413-825-0703 > 245 Dufour St > Santa Cruz, CA 95060 > ~ > ___ > List sponsored by Home Power magazine > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Options & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Component Choices for MY RV - Apollo Solar?
Dear Colleagues, Well this one's for me! Nice to do solar for oneself after installing for others my whole life! I'm putting together an small RV system in my Sprinter Van that will also act as a small mobile power platform. SUGGESTIONS? I'm considering the following: What would be better??? Batteries: 6 or 8 Optima Blue Tops (12 Volt System - possibly 24V) (space is limited - it's a 144" Sprinter Van) - Other sealed alternatives you think are better? Modules: 2 Sanyo HIP-195BA19s (have already) & 1 undetermined 90-120 watt module (all that will fit!) (Anyone have an extra BP 790 or an AE-90HE, AE-120HE??? or other 24" x 48" ish module?) Charge Control: OB FlexMax 60 or should I wait for the Midnight Classic? (A Sunsaver MPPT will be used for the 100 watt module). (I'll also be dumping extra power to hot water). Or Apollo if I use the Apollo inverter below. Inverter: I'd like to eventually have 120/240 so I could build from the RV. So question is: A) One Outback 2012 now and then add another for 240 VAC later OR B) Apollo TSE2212 OR C) Magnum MS 4024 (in which case I'd have to go with a 24V pack and a 24>12 DC>DC for 12V loads) Monitoring: OB Mate (Flexnet?) or (Apollo ASNET if I go Apollo). QUESTIONS? 1) Opinions of the Blue Top vs ??? 2) Best RV inverter - Outback? Apollo? Magnum? Experience? Vibration? Only the Outback offers neutral switching in the transfer switch. (Does the Magnum?). Weight is an issue as well as space. 3) Charge Control - Is the Classic Shipping? Thanks for your time! Best, Jeff C. -- ~~~ Jeff Clearwater Village Power Design Solar Design Consultation for the Commercial Sector http://www.villagepower.com goso...@villagepower.com NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer http://www.nabcep.org/ Voice: 831-427-2799 Fax: 413-825-0703 245 Dufour St Santa Cruz, CA 95060 ~ ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
