Re: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements
Kirpal, Specialized structural engineering really shouldn't be required for a standard flush mount tile project. If it is, I have a few PE structural contacts who typically do this kind of work for closer to $200, contact me off list if you're interested. Secondly, I agree with William to be weary of tile roofs! The biggest issue we've found besides fragile tile is worn underlayment. The underlayment, typically felt paper, needs to be in good condition or the roof will leak sooner or later. Assessing roof age really helps to get an idea of how the underlayment might be. Anything over 10 years old should be inspected by a roofer. The best bet is to have a roofer waterproof your stanchions. August *August Goers* Luminalt Energy Corporation On Tue, Dec 19, 2017 at 9:54 AM, Jerry Shafer <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote: > Fellow Wrenches > Some time back we were doing concrete tile install all the time. We > approched it somewhat different. We removed all the tiles on the area for > the array, preped the area and installed installed comp with quick mount > afterwords we reinstalled the tile around the modules. The profile was far > better, overall look was better and we will never get a cracked tile under > the array cause a leak. We did not need any engineering on this either as > we reduced the loading by installing modules. > Jerry > > On Dec 19, 2017 6:53 AM, "William Miller" <will...@millersolar.com> wrote: > > > Kirpal: > > > > It seems to me this is a matter of defining "Flush-mount." I would call > > any installation where-in the panels are within the perimeter of the > roof, > > parallel with the surface and not more than 10 or so inches from the > > surface of the roofing material a flush-mount. A proper tile roof > > installation satisfies this and should be allowed without engineering. > > > > Here in smoky California we have lots of tile roofs. We have tried or > > reviewed all of the tile mount solutions. We rejected Quickmount as > > poorly designed and fabricated. The posts are hollow and the threads > fail > > much too easily. Hooks are out of the question for lack of uplift > > resistance. Snap-N-Rack posts and flashings are too weakly built and > > don't look like they will seal well. Our preferred roofer rejected them. > > > > We settled on the robust DPW "Power Post" stanchions with two levels of > > flashing. On these we set Snap-n-Rack 100 series rail. The Power Posts > > are solid aluminum and allow two lags. However DPW had such a huge lead > > time for Power Posts that we tooled up to fabricate our own. You could > > check with DPW or Solar Rack Works. > > > > The biggest weatherproofing complexity is the sub-roof--the paper under > > the tile. It is the actual rain barrier while the tile is the UV barrier > > and aesthetic treatment. Over time, the sub-roof will become brittle. > It > > is fine as long as you don't touch it. We try to never rely on caulk for > > the rain barrier and caulk won't stick to old sub-roof anyway. Instead > we > > lap good quality paper under the next layer above and over the flashing > > below. This means we would be lifting the existing paper and it tears. > > Therefore we have a licensed roofer remove tile from eave-to-ridge and > > rake-to-rake and install new sub-roof. We use Oatey 11830 flashings over > > Power Posts, overlapping each course of paper. This requires some short > > courses, but felt is cheap. Over the tile we use a wide base galvanized > > flashing interleaved with flat tile or wide based aluminum flashing with > > curved tile. The roofer replaces the tile after we set stanchions. > > > > The licensed roofer adds thousands of dollars to any tile job but without > > this process a roof leak is likely. I figure a roof leak could cost tens > > of thousands of dollars so the arithmetic is pretty easy. > > > > By the way, these are trade secrets so don't tell anyone. > > > > William Miller > > > > > > Lic 773985 > > millersolar.com > > 805-438-5600 > > > > -Original Message- > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > > Behalf Of Kirpal > > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:26 AM > > To: RE-wrenches > > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - > > Engineering requirements > > > > Hi Folks! We don't get many jobs installing solar on concrete tile > > roofsthere aren't many around here. In Oregon we are allowed to do > an > > engineer-less installation on metal and comp roofs when the array is
Re: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements
Fellow Wrenches Some time back we were doing concrete tile install all the time. We approched it somewhat different. We removed all the tiles on the area for the array, preped the area and installed installed comp with quick mount afterwords we reinstalled the tile around the modules. The profile was far better, overall look was better and we will never get a cracked tile under the array cause a leak. We did not need any engineering on this either as we reduced the loading by installing modules. Jerry On Dec 19, 2017 6:53 AM, "William Miller" <will...@millersolar.com> wrote: > Kirpal: > > It seems to me this is a matter of defining "Flush-mount." I would call > any installation where-in the panels are within the perimeter of the roof, > parallel with the surface and not more than 10 or so inches from the > surface of the roofing material a flush-mount. A proper tile roof > installation satisfies this and should be allowed without engineering. > > Here in smoky California we have lots of tile roofs. We have tried or > reviewed all of the tile mount solutions. We rejected Quickmount as > poorly designed and fabricated. The posts are hollow and the threads fail > much too easily. Hooks are out of the question for lack of uplift > resistance. Snap-N-Rack posts and flashings are too weakly built and > don't look like they will seal well. Our preferred roofer rejected them. > > We settled on the robust DPW "Power Post" stanchions with two levels of > flashing. On these we set Snap-n-Rack 100 series rail. The Power Posts > are solid aluminum and allow two lags. However DPW had such a huge lead > time for Power Posts that we tooled up to fabricate our own. You could > check with DPW or Solar Rack Works. > > The biggest weatherproofing complexity is the sub-roof--the paper under > the tile. It is the actual rain barrier while the tile is the UV barrier > and aesthetic treatment. Over time, the sub-roof will become brittle. It > is fine as long as you don't touch it. We try to never rely on caulk for > the rain barrier and caulk won't stick to old sub-roof anyway. Instead we > lap good quality paper under the next layer above and over the flashing > below. This means we would be lifting the existing paper and it tears. > Therefore we have a licensed roofer remove tile from eave-to-ridge and > rake-to-rake and install new sub-roof. We use Oatey 11830 flashings over > Power Posts, overlapping each course of paper. This requires some short > courses, but felt is cheap. Over the tile we use a wide base galvanized > flashing interleaved with flat tile or wide based aluminum flashing with > curved tile. The roofer replaces the tile after we set stanchions. > > The licensed roofer adds thousands of dollars to any tile job but without > this process a roof leak is likely. I figure a roof leak could cost tens > of thousands of dollars so the arithmetic is pretty easy. > > By the way, these are trade secrets so don't tell anyone. > > William Miller > > > Lic 773985 > millersolar.com > 805-438-5600 > > -Original Message----- > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On > Behalf Of Kirpal > Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:26 AM > To: RE-wrenches > Subject: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - > Engineering requirements > > Hi Folks! We don't get many jobs installing solar on concrete tile > roofsthere aren't many around here. In Oregon we are allowed to do an > engineer-less installation on metal and comp roofs when the array is flush > mounted to the roof. Concrete tile roofs don't fit into this scenario. > My engineer quoted me $650 for a report authorizing the installation. > Seems like this is way too expensive for a modest 5kW system. What are > others doing for concrete tile roof installs. Engineering required? We > usually use SnapNRack as our racking system. (will probably use > QuickMount Tile Replacement Flashings for this project) Other Oregon > installers - any advice on this hurdle? Not worried about the technical > installation just the cost and formality of getting an engineers stamp for > permits. > Thanks in advance! > > Sunny Regards, > Kirpal Khalsa > Oregon LRT#25 > NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Oregon Solarworks LLC > www.oregonsolarworks.com > 541-299-0402 > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/mail
Re: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements
Kirpal: It seems to me this is a matter of defining "Flush-mount." I would call any installation where-in the panels are within the perimeter of the roof, parallel with the surface and not more than 10 or so inches from the surface of the roofing material a flush-mount. A proper tile roof installation satisfies this and should be allowed without engineering. Here in smoky California we have lots of tile roofs. We have tried or reviewed all of the tile mount solutions. We rejected Quickmount as poorly designed and fabricated. The posts are hollow and the threads fail much too easily. Hooks are out of the question for lack of uplift resistance. Snap-N-Rack posts and flashings are too weakly built and don't look like they will seal well. Our preferred roofer rejected them. We settled on the robust DPW "Power Post" stanchions with two levels of flashing. On these we set Snap-n-Rack 100 series rail. The Power Posts are solid aluminum and allow two lags. However DPW had such a huge lead time for Power Posts that we tooled up to fabricate our own. You could check with DPW or Solar Rack Works. The biggest weatherproofing complexity is the sub-roof--the paper under the tile. It is the actual rain barrier while the tile is the UV barrier and aesthetic treatment. Over time, the sub-roof will become brittle. It is fine as long as you don't touch it. We try to never rely on caulk for the rain barrier and caulk won't stick to old sub-roof anyway. Instead we lap good quality paper under the next layer above and over the flashing below. This means we would be lifting the existing paper and it tears. Therefore we have a licensed roofer remove tile from eave-to-ridge and rake-to-rake and install new sub-roof. We use Oatey 11830 flashings over Power Posts, overlapping each course of paper. This requires some short courses, but felt is cheap. Over the tile we use a wide base galvanized flashing interleaved with flat tile or wide based aluminum flashing with curved tile. The roofer replaces the tile after we set stanchions. The licensed roofer adds thousands of dollars to any tile job but without this process a roof leak is likely. I figure a roof leak could cost tens of thousands of dollars so the arithmetic is pretty easy. By the way, these are trade secrets so don't tell anyone. William Miller Lic 773985 millersolar.com 805-438-5600 -Original Message- From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Kirpal Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2017 7:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements Hi Folks! We don't get many jobs installing solar on concrete tile roofsthere aren't many around here. In Oregon we are allowed to do an engineer-less installation on metal and comp roofs when the array is flush mounted to the roof. Concrete tile roofs don't fit into this scenario. My engineer quoted me $650 for a report authorizing the installation. Seems like this is way too expensive for a modest 5kW system. What are others doing for concrete tile roof installs. Engineering required? We usually use SnapNRack as our racking system. (will probably use QuickMount Tile Replacement Flashings for this project) Other Oregon installers - any advice on this hurdle? Not worried about the technical installation just the cost and formality of getting an engineers stamp for permits. Thanks in advance! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.htm l List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Concrete Tile Roof Solar Installation - Oregon - Engineering requirements
Hi Folks! We don't get many jobs installing solar on concrete tile roofsthere aren't many around here. In Oregon we are allowed to do an engineer-less installation on metal and comp roofs when the array is flush mounted to the roof. Concrete tile roofs don't fit into this scenario. My engineer quoted me $650 for a report authorizing the installation. Seems like this is way too expensive for a modest 5kW system. What are others doing for concrete tile roof installs. Engineering required? We usually use SnapNRack as our racking system. (will probably use QuickMount Tile Replacement Flashings for this project) Other Oregon installers - any advice on this hurdle? Not worried about the technical installation just the cost and formality of getting an engineers stamp for permits. Thanks in advance! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa Oregon LRT#25 NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Oregon Solarworks LLC www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-299-0402 ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
