Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency Out Of Range
Passing this info along One of our Enphase customers reported that his local electric utility installed a new metering system, TWACs by Aclara. Once they installed a new meter on the service, the system began registering ACFOOR (AC Frequency Out Of Range) messages.He contacted Enphase and they informed him that this issue has occurred previously on other installations where the utility has a TWACs metering system (Please reference case number 260517). Enphase applied a firmware upgrade to the site and that has resolved the issue. With Regards Carl Adams SunRock Solar On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 4:12 PM, Dave Palumbo d...@independentpowerllc.comwrote: I’d like to revisit a thread from early February where we were discussing Enphase microinverters going off line due to utility power quality issues when “Pinging” of smart meters occur. ** ** I have a system where I was told by Enphase that they applied their software fix in late March, but in this case it did work in fixing the problem of the inverters dropping for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour a couple of times per day. The drops are not regular and now it appears that they are not connected to the pinging of the meters on my customers site as we had the utility change their schedule to only ping at midnight. ** ** We are still seeing AC Frequency Out of Range errors almost daily on our M-215 inverters. Sometimes it is for only several inverters and other times up to the whole array of 32 inverters. On my other Enphase systems have no problems. ** ** What other issues besides utility pinging of my customers smart meter could be causing the problem? ** ** Could the pinging of the neighbors meters by the utility off of the same transformer be affecting the Enphase M-215’s? I’m suspicious of something other than this because the errors occur at random times that appear unrelated to utility pinging. ** ** Thanks, Dave ** ** David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655** *www.independentpowerllc.com * Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ** ** ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency Out Of Range
I'd like to revisit a thread from early February where we were discussing Enphase microinverters going off line due to utility power quality issues when Pinging of smart meters occur. I have a system where I was told by Enphase that they applied their software fix in late March, but in this case it did work in fixing the problem of the inverters dropping for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour a couple of times per day. The drops are not regular and now it appears that they are not connected to the pinging of the meters on my customers site as we had the utility change their schedule to only ping at midnight. We are still seeing AC Frequency Out of Range errors almost daily on our M-215 inverters. Sometimes it is for only several inverters and other times up to the whole array of 32 inverters. On my other Enphase systems have no problems. What other issues besides utility pinging of my customers smart meter could be causing the problem? Could the pinging of the neighbors meters by the utility off of the same transformer be affecting the Enphase M-215's? I'm suspicious of something other than this because the errors occur at random times that appear unrelated to utility pinging. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency Out Of Range
Dave, The problem occurs when the kWh meter sends data. I would expect any neighbors' meters on the same transformer to cause trouble. And probably neighbors that are not on the same transformer too. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 4/15/2013 1:12 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: I'd like to revisit a thread from early February where we were discussing Enphase microinverters going off line due to utility power quality issues when Pinging of smart meters occur. I have a system where I was told by Enphase that they applied their software fix in late March, but in this case it did work in fixing the problem of the inverters dropping for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour a couple of times per day. The drops are not regular and now it appears that they are not connected to the pinging of the meters on my customers site as we had the utility change their schedule to only ping at midnight. We are still seeing AC Frequency Out of Range errors almost daily on our M-215 inverters. Sometimes it is for only several inverters and other times up to the whole array of 32 inverters. On my other Enphase systems have no problems. What other issues besides utility pinging of my customers smart meter could be causing the problem? Could the pinging of the neighbors meters by the utility off of the same transformer be affecting the Enphase M-215's? I'm suspicious of something other than this because the errors occur at random times that appear unrelated to utility pinging. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655** */www.independentpowerllc.com /* Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency Out Of Range
Dave, In multiple conversations about this with both the utility and Enphase there was concern about high inductive loads, possibly from the paper mill in the town, that turned out not to be the case. The fix Enphase developed worked, but I thought it would be worth mentioning. Daryl Dave, The problem occurs when the kWh meter sends data. I would expect any neighbors' meters on the same transformer to cause trouble. And probably neighbors that are not on the same transformer too. Kent Osterberg Blue Mountain Solar, Inc. www.bluemountainsolar.com t: 541-568-4882 On 4/15/2013 1:12 PM, Dave Palumbo wrote: I'd like to revisit a thread from early February where we were discussing Enphase microinverters going off line due to utility power quality issues when Pinging of smart meters occur. I have a system where I was told by Enphase that they applied their software fix in late March, but in this case it did work in fixing the problem of the inverters dropping for anywhere from 5 minutes to an hour a couple of times per day. The drops are not regular and now it appears that they are not connected to the pinging of the meters on my customers site as we had the utility change their schedule to only ping at midnight. We are still seeing AC Frequency Out of Range errors almost daily on our M-215 inverters. Sometimes it is for only several inverters and other times up to the whole array of 32 inverters. On my other Enphase systems have no problems. What other issues besides utility pinging of my customers smart meter could be causing the problem? Could the pinging of the neighbors meters by the utility off of the same transformer be affecting the Enphase M-215's? I'm suspicious of something other than this because the errors occur at random times that appear unrelated to utility pinging. Thanks, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655** */www.independentpowerllc.com /* Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
he longest
I've seen him stay "down" is
about a half hour, but it seems to get
progressively worse as time goes
on for some reason (initially only the five
minutes, but longer down
times lately). This particular customer is
difficult and picky, to
boot. I hope yours is a bit kinder. Mine seems
to think we did him an
injustice of monumental proportions.
We have had the utility out there logging
events, meetings with the
utility and another solar company in Maine to
discuss all this, and
have kept Enphase in the loop throughout.
Enphase has responded in a
responsible and reasonable manner throughout.
If you want to discuss this with Enphase,
call and ask for Bret. He's
the engineer I previously dealt with, although
he is second tier, he is
accessible.
Thanks Daryl. Does your system also
sometimes stay off for longer periods
sometimes? My clients system can stay
off for up to 64 minutes.
Dave
-Original Message-
From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of
penobscotso...@midmaine.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013
12:01 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase
"AC Frequency out of Range"
Dave,
We have been having the same
problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I
have been dealing directly with the
third tier engineers at Enphase and
they
are working on a software fix for
this. The"event" itself is only a
fraction
of a second but IEEE requirements are
that the inverter shut down for five
minutes. I only found out about this
problem when it started for this
customer. It sems that Enphase has
already addressed the problem with a
software fix for the M-190's. The
M-215 fix should come, according to
Enphase, by the end of March. It will
be automatically downloaded through
the Enlighten router.
It's a known issue with Smart
Meters with Enphase, but should be
reconciled soon.
Daryl DeJoy
NABCEP Certified PV installer
Penobscot Solar Design
www.penobscotsolar.com
Wrenchsters,
I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on
a residence with utility Smart
Metering, both the PV Production
Meter as well as the utility billing
meter being "read" every hour.
This system has experienced many "AC
Frequency Out Of Range" events
since the system was installed. Below
is copied the Enphase Event
message. This particular
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com mailto:penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com http://www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com http://www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 tel:%28802%29%20888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
We see the same issue here in WI. Funny that you say 64 minutes, as some of the M215s show the error for 64 minutes for us routinely. Could that just be some designated error reporting length? Daryl, thanks for the Enphase update. Keep us updated if you can on the software fix. Ryan HarkinsNABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer /Project Manager PastedGraphic-3.pdf Description: Adobe PDF document Synergy Renewable Systems, LLCPO Box 58Stoughton, WI 53589PH: 608-712-7862ryan.hark...@energycraft.comwww.energycraft.com On Feb 5, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote:Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periodssometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes.Dave-Original Message-From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Ofpenobscotso...@midmaine.comSent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PMTo: RE-wrenchesSubject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase "AC Frequency out of Range"Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. Ihave been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and theyare working on a software fix for this. The"event" itself is only a fractionof a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for fiveminutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for thiscustomer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with asoftware fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according toEnphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded throughthe Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should bereconciled soon.Daryl DeJoyNABCEP Certified PV installerPenobscot Solar Designwww.penobscotsolar.comWrenchsters,I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being "read" every hour. This system has experienced many "AC Frequency Out Of Range" events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to64 minutes.My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues?Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM ESTCleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM ESTRecommended actionThis condition should correct itself. No action is required.DetailsThe microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regionalstandards.AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid.Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility.When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best,DaveDavid PalumboIndependent Power LLC462 Solar Way DriveHyde Park, VT 05655www.independentpowerllc.comVermont Solar Partner25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194___List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgOptions settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgOptions settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___List sponsored by Home Power magazineList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgOptions settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Dave, It doesn't happen often, and the longest I've seen him stay down is about a half hour, but it seems to get progressively worse as time goes on for some reason (initially only the five minutes, but longer down times lately). This particular customer is difficult and picky, to boot. I hope yours is a bit kinder. Mine seems to think we did him an injustice of monumental proportions. We have had the utility out there logging events, meetings with the utility and another solar company in Maine to discuss all this, and have kept Enphase in the loop throughout. Enphase has responded in a responsible and reasonable manner throughout. If you want to discuss this with Enphase, call and ask for Bret. He's the engineer I previously dealt with, although he is second tier, he is accessible. Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Will do. Enphase had originally projected the beginning of February for the release of the fix. It is now projected for the end of March. I am hoping it will be a done deal before this next season starts here in Maine. It might be good incentive to try Power One, Exeltech or other inverters. In all honesty, my interpretation is that the Enphase inverters are very sensitive and respond quickly to these pings. I believe the software fix will allow the inverters to ignore micro-events of less than 1/100th of a second or so (the length of the ping. I will keep the list in the loop! Daryl We see the same issue here in WI. Funny that you say 64 minutes, as some of the M215s show the error for 64 minutes for us routinely. Could that just be some designated error reporting length? Daryl, thanks for the Enphase update. Keep us updated if you can on the software fix. Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: 608-712-7862 ryan.hark...@energycraft.com www.energycraft.com On Feb 5, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
For these installations, do you guys have more information on the utilities' protocols that are causing problems with these inverters? On 2013/2/5 12:51, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Will do. Enphase had originally projected the beginning of February for the release of the fix. It is now projected for the end of March. I am hoping it will be a done deal before this next season starts here in Maine. It might be good incentive to try Power One, Exeltech or other inverters. In all honesty, my interpretation is that the Enphase inverters are very sensitive and respond quickly to these pings. I believe the software fix will allow the inverters to ignore micro-events of less than 1/100th of a second or so (the length of the ping. I will keep the list in the loop! Daryl We see the same issue here in WI. Funny that you say 64 minutes, as some of the M215s show the error for 64 minutes for us routinely. Could that just be some designated error reporting length? Daryl, thanks for the Enphase update. Keep us updated if you can on the software fix. Ryan Harkins NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer / Project Manager Synergy Renewable Systems, LLC PO Box 58 Stoughton, WI 53589 PH: 608-712-7862 ryan.hark...@energycraft.com www.energycraft.com On Feb 5, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Dave Palumbo wrote: Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655 www.independentpowerllc.com Vermont Solar Partner 25 Years Experience, (802) 888-7194 ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Hi wrenches, The frequency out of range issue is being caused by some utility meter's communication ping. This ping is actually affecting the utility voltage and frequency, and can be viewed with a power quality analyzer. It is highly likely that this is affecting a wide variety of utility-interactive inverters, but is only noticeable with the Enphase systems; due to the high level of visibility that our Enlighten monitoring and reporting provides. These changes required that the software undergo a new certification process. We have completed our CSA certification of the new software, and are validating it's functionality before pushing out the solution to our entire population of microinverters. We are in the process of beta testing the software fix, and are hoping to have this resolved in February. Thank you for your patience as we work to resolve this issue. On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:24 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Dave, It doesn't happen often, and the longest I've seen him stay down is about a half hour, but it seems to get progressively worse as time goes on for some reason (initially only the five minutes, but longer down times lately). This particular customer is difficult and picky, to boot. I hope yours is a bit kinder. Mine seems to think we did him an injustice of monumental proportions. We have had the utility out there logging events, meetings with the utility and another solar company in Maine to discuss all this, and have kept Enphase in the loop throughout. Enphase has responded in a responsible and reasonable manner throughout. If you want to discuss this with Enphase, call and ask for Bret. He's the engineer I previously dealt with, although he is second tier, he is accessible. Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart and the microinverter may not begin producing power for an additional short period following the last out-of-bounds condition. Best, Dave David Palumbo Independent Power LLC 462 Solar Way Drive Hyde Park, VT 05655
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range
Thanks for the succinct explanation Nick. I look forward to the fix. Like you, I believe this is happening with other inverters, but lacking the level of monitoring available with Enphase, people just aren't aware it is happening. Daryl Hi wrenches, The frequency out of range issue is being caused by some utility meter's communication ping. This ping is actually affecting the utility voltage and frequency, and can be viewed with a power quality analyzer. It is highly likely that this is affecting a wide variety of utility-interactive inverters, but is only noticeable with the Enphase systems; due to the high level of visibility that our Enlighten monitoring and reporting provides. These changes required that the software undergo a new certification process. We have completed our CSA certification of the new software, and are validating it's functionality before pushing out the solution to our entire population of microinverters. We are in the process of beta testing the software fix, and are hoping to have this resolved in February. Thank you for your patience as we work to resolve this issue. On Tue, Feb 5, 2013 at 9:24 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Dave, It doesn't happen often, and the longest I've seen him stay down is about a half hour, but it seems to get progressively worse as time goes on for some reason (initially only the five minutes, but longer down times lately). This particular customer is difficult and picky, to boot. I hope yours is a bit kinder. Mine seems to think we did him an injustice of monumental proportions. We have had the utility out there logging events, meetings with the utility and another solar company in Maine to discuss all this, and have kept Enphase in the loop throughout. Enphase has responded in a responsible and reasonable manner throughout. If you want to discuss this with Enphase, call and ask for Bret. He's the engineer I previously dealt with, although he is second tier, he is accessible. Thanks Daryl. Does your system also sometimes stay off for longer periods sometimes? My clients system can stay off for up to 64 minutes. Dave -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of penobscotso...@midmaine.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:01 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase AC Frequency out of Range Dave, We have been having the same problem with an Enphase system in Maine. I have been dealing directly with the third tier engineers at Enphase and they are working on a software fix for this. Theevent itself is only a fraction of a second but IEEE requirements are that the inverter shut down for five minutes. I only found out about this problem when it started for this customer. It sems that Enphase has already addressed the problem with a software fix for the M-190's. The M-215 fix should come, according to Enphase, by the end of March. It will be automatically downloaded through the Enlighten router. It's a known issue with Smart Meters with Enphase, but should be reconciled soon. Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design www.penobscotsolar.com Wrenchsters, I have an Enphase 7.5kW system on a residence with utility Smart Metering, both the PV Production Meter as well as the utility billing meter being read every hour. This system has experienced many AC Frequency Out Of Range events since the system was installed. Below is copied the Enphase Event message. This particular event was for 5 minutes. Most of the events (all events are AC Frequency Out Of Range) last 5 to 10 minutes but occasionally they have lasted from 45 minutes to 64 minutes. My question is: Could the use of the smart metering increase the likely hood that AC Frequency events happen? Or is this just a coincidence and that we are dealing with fluctuating utility power AC Frequency issues? Started on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:49 PM EST Cleared on: Mon February 04, 2013 12:54 PM EST Recommended action This condition should correct itself. No action is required. Details The microinverter reports that the frequency coming from the utility is either too low or too high as specified by applicable regional standards. AC frequency is the frequency at which voltage varies on the utility grid. Frequency Out of Range events are usually transient and self-correcting by the utility. When the microinverter detects an out of frequency condition, it must remain offline until the utility has been within acceptable limits continuously for a short period of time (seconds to minutes, varies by region). If during that time the utility again exceeds or falls short of acceptable limits, the five-minute timer must restart
