Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Jeremy Coxon]

This issue makes SolArk a non-starter (pun intended) for us.  I am not a bit 
interested in trying to resolve simple issues (like running a 120V table saw - 
come on!) that should be taken care of before a product is released for sale.  
Like a lot of places, it looks like net metering is pretty much going away here 
which means a lot more storage based systems down the road.  Based on what I’m 
reading lately from you guys, the manufacturers have a long long way to go to 
making these systems perform properly.  Most of our customers want whole house 
back up and they don’t want to manage loads.  We compete against a bunch of 
electricians that are hocking whole house gensets for a few grand, so why would 
anyone want a more complicated more expensive back up solution.

I for one do not want to place my customers in the position of being a test bed 
for these systems and I sure don’t want to deal with the legal/financial 
results of a non or semi functional system that isn’t properly engineered.  
We’ve done a decent amount of DC coupled lead acid off grid/gen and “off 
grid”/gen/net metered for the last 15 years without any problems - these 
systems are running well pumps, 5 ton AC units, full wood working shops, you 
name it.  Schneider, Outback, and Magnum have all been able to handle these 
loads without blinking. 

After reading glowing reviews about Solark on this forum, I had been seriously 
considering trying out SolArk on an upcoming large system - not now.  I don’t 
know, it just seems crazy to me to have to put in an autoformer on an 8kW, 
supposedly balanced, inverter.  I’ll think pass.  My days of providing free 
field tech support to solar manufacturers are over.   This industry is old 
enough and large enough now to put that paradigm to rest.

Best Regards,
Jeremy Coxon NABCEP # 091308-21
Vice President
MWBE Certified



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Tuss, Lones]

Hi Jay
Hi Larry
The X240 is a 4000 watt transformer it is also available in the PSX-240
Both can be used as a step up, a step down or a balancing xfmr.

Below is a link to the manuals.
https://www.outbackpower.com/resources/documents/product-documentation/item/autotransformer-technical-documentation
 Balancing transformer is not required by the Radian or the FXR inverters.
I was used in the older FX series usually as a step up/balancing Xfmr.
In step up operation it allows a single inverter to be on and will provide a 
second ac voltage of the opposite phase. If 2 inverters L1 and L2 were present  
it would load balance which allowed the least used phase to contribute to the 
most used phase.

   It can still be used as step up with a single FXR inverter meaning a single 
unit and the X240 will provide two phases L1 and  L2 with 180 degrees of phase 
separation.  It will not work as a load balancing xfmr using the FXR inverter. 
With the FXR we lost the load balancing ability. What we gained was the ability 
to sell back in a multi inverter stacked system, the 7 modes available from the 
Radian and Selling with in a 3 phase 120/208 system up to a 9 inverters.
I hope this helps.
Take Care All





From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of Jay
Sent: Wednesday, February 3, 2021 4:45 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

Hi Larry

I’m not so sure about that. The X-240 doesn’t work with the Radian or FXR 
versions. IE it won’t balance the loads so that the inverter sees a balance on 
L1/L2.

It did do this for the older FX versions.

Jay




On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:10 PM, 
la...@starlightsolar.com<mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:
Amos,

When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. A 
240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and any 
240Vac loads stay on the main panel.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post 
mailto:integrityenergy...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
inverter’s output.

Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
“high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  Would 
be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house loads 
using the PSX-240?..


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188

ienergyVT.com<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=1446f2de-4bddca0a-1445fb55-860a66ff9d26-4a559e51315323ab=1=8bda5334-eefc-4426-882f-473bf8f783da=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ienergyvt.com%2F>

Facebook<https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=4dfa2226-12611af2-4df92bad-860a66ff9d26-6f5b7f95c12f7468=1=8bda5334-eefc-4426-882f-473bf8f783da=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fintegrityenergyllp%3Fref%3Dhl>


On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, 
la...@starlightsolar.com<mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:

If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance 
the loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese 
mailto:luccheseso...@me.com>> wrote:

Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I 
could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on 
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might 
occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be 
less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d 
be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that 
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
c

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Ray]

I have concerns as well, because I too have been considering the SolArk 
for upcoming larger designs.  I regularly expect the builders to test 
the system and expose any problems before the owners move in.  It should 
be able to run any properly operating 120 v equipment there is.  Having 
said that, I once had a contractor's air compressor not run on one of my 
systems.  It was an archaic monster belt drive thing, and when I checked 
it, it had a missing starting cap, and a ground fault.  So no, the 
inverter should not have to operate faulty equipment either.


I have never had to use a balancing transformer before on any of my 
systems.  The Magnum 120/240 vac PAE inverters generally will run 
everything 120 I've ever thrown at them, have full 240 in/out, but 
they're rated at 1/3 the power of the Solark.  So something is 
definitely wrong; shutdowns are not acceptable.  I hope Solark addresses 
this immediately.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 2/3/21 10:47 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Maybe its just me but if an off grid inverter can't start up a 120 vac 
compressor l might want to look elsewhere. I have the old FX inverters 
start up and run massive bandsaw while homes were being built. Radians 
running everything from well pumps to sewer pumps all while off grid 
all without additional transformers or soft start controllers. I have 
systems in Honolulu that have 5 AC multi ton units all living just 
fine with two Radians and no additional transformers. Its just a 
little concerning that load imbalance was not considered with this 
inverter manufacture, and maybe they did. KISS! not more complicated

Jerry
NABCEP PV inspector

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021, 1:10 PM la...@starlightsolar.com 
 > wrote:


Amos,

When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image,
the PSX will provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter
output should stay balanced. A 240Vac circuit from the main panel
goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and any 240Vac loads stay on
the main panel.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post
mailto:integrityenergy...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We have had this issue with a recent installation. It’s a new
off-grid house build, and so not many loads to speak of yet,
except mainly power tools. The Solark 12K will not start any of:
portable air compressor, table saw, and sometimes struggles with a
miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, but I have
measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table
saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps
is if the motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the
other leg to balance the inverter’s output.

Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets
for “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the
inverter's 240 to 120.  My understanding is this will solve the
issue for starting these loads, but not sure if we might run into
issues with inbalance down the road...  Would be curious to know
if there’s another way to balance all of the house loads using the
PSX-240?..


     Amos Post
Integrity Energy
W 802.763.7023
 C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 


On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com
 wrote:

If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback
PSX-240 to balance the loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese
mailto:luccheseso...@me.com>> wrote:

Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for
awhile but have heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat
frequent issues with the inverter shutting down from line to line
imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I could see where these
instances would be minimized with attention to detail on
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400
watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster
oven. Seems like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back
up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be
getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those
that have NOT had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I
have an upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple
Radians in HBX mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an
ideal solution there but if the continuity of electrical service
was going 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Darryl Thayer]

 Nick, Larry has it correct, the 4kW autotransformer (PSX 240) will use
both of the 120-volt legs of the inverter.  It has two winding each able to
handle one leg to neutral, but able to transfer power from one leg to the
other.  You can have  8000 Watts on either leg, one at a time,
continuously, as both legs contribute.  The autotransformer transfers power
from one leg, 4000 watts, and the other leg gets its power directly from
the inverter.  This allows the use of a 120-240 volt subpanel with auto
transfer balancing of the inverter legs.

On Wed, Feb 3, 2021 at 5:08 PM Dustin Douglas  wrote:

> Hi Nick,
>
> The 1400w difference is in terms of a DC load on an AC output, which is
> common when using variable speed appliances that use internal diodes that
> modify the sine wave. This does not apply to true AC loads where the
> Sol-Ark can do 4800w continuous at 120V.
>
> Dustin Douglas
> Engineering Support Lead
> (972)575-8875 ext. 108
> www.Sol-Ark.com
>
>
>
>
>
>  On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:21:33 -0600 *Amos Post
> >* wrote 
>
> Thanks Larry,
>
> This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct?  So the sub
> panel would be 120V only?
>
> Best,
> Amos
>
>
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com 
> Facebook 
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
>
> Amos,
>
> When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX
> will provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay
> balanced. A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a
> sub panel and any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel.
>
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
> 
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post 
> wrote:
>
> We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid
> house build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power
> tools.  The Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor,
> table saw, and sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps
> or less at 120V, but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air
> compressor and table saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP
> each.  What helps is if the motors are warmed up, or putting another load
> on the other leg to balance the inverter’s output.
>
> Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for
> “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240
> to 120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these
> loads, but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the
> road...  Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of
> the house loads using the PSX-240?..
> 
>
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com 
> Facebook 
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
>
> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to
> balance the loads?
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
>
>
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:
>
> Good morning Wrenches,
>
> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but
> have heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with
> the inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400
> watts? I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention
> to detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400
> watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems
> like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled
> scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple
> weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
>
> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have
> NOT had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>
> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an
> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX
> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if
> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly
> through batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the
> majority of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with
> imbalance shutdowns.
>
> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the
> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s
> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these
> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long
> enough history with them to 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Jay]

Hi Larry

I’m not so sure about that. The X-240 doesn’t work with the Radian or FXR 
versions. IE it won’t balance the loads so that the inverter sees a balance on 
L1/L2. 

It did do this for the older FX versions. 

Jay



> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:10 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
> 
> Amos,
> 
> When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
> provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. 
> A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and 
> any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel.
> 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post  wrote:
> 
> We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
> build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
> Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
> sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
> but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
> saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
> motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
> inverter’s output.  
> 
> Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
> “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
> 120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
> but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  
> Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house 
> loads using the PSX-240?..
> 
> 
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com
> Facebook
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
>> 
>> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to 
>> balance the loads?
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning Wrenches,
>> 
>> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
>> heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
>> inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? 
>> I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to 
>> detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 
>> watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems 
>> like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled 
>> scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple 
>> weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
>> 
>> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
>> had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>> 
>> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
>> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX 
>> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if 
>> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
>> batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority 
>> of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
>> shutdowns.
>> 
>> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the 
>> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 
>> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these 
>> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long 
>> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most 
>> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to 
>> Home” mode?
>> 
>> Thanks for your time, 
>> Nick A Lucchese
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Dustin Douglas]

Hi Nick,



The 1400w difference is in terms of a DC load on an AC output, which is common 
when using variable speed appliances that use internal diodes that modify the 
sine wave. This does not apply to true AC loads where the Sol-Ark can do 4800w 
continuous at 120V.


Dustin Douglas

Engineering Support Lead

(972)575-8875 ext. 108

http://www.Sol-Ark.com









 On Wed, 03 Feb 2021 15:21:33 -0600 Amos Post 
 wrote 


Thanks Larry,

This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct?  So the sub panel 
would be 120V only?



Best,

Amos


       Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
    http://www.ienergyvt.com        
https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl



On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:


Amos,

When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. A 
240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and any 
240Vac loads stay on the main panel.


Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems









On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post  
wrote:


We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
inverter’s output.  

Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
“high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  Would 
be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house loads 
using the PSX-240?..


       Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
    http://www.ienergyvt.com/        
https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl



On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:


If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance 
the loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems









On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  
wrote:


Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I 
could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on 
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might 
occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be 
less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d 
be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that 
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority of 
the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
shutdowns.

There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the thought 
of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 but I’m 
kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these shutdowns occur 
even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long enough history with 
them to chime in with your observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled 
with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to Home” mode?

Thanks for your time, 
Nick A Lucchese





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

You can have 120V circuits that would never need line balancing and 240V loads 
on the main panel. Then put any 120V circuits that may need line balancing on 
the PSX sub panel.   

Larry

On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:21 PM, Amos Post  wrote:

Thanks Larry,

This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct?  So the sub panel 
would be 120V only?

Best,
Amos


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
>  wrote:
> 
> Amos,
> 
> When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
> provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. 
> A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and 
> any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel.
> 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post  > wrote:
> 
> We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
> build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
> Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
> sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
> but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
> saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
> motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
> inverter’s output.  
> 
> Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
> “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
> 120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
> but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  
> Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house 
> loads using the PSX-240?..
> 
> 
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com 
> Facebook 
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to 
>> balance the loads?
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese > > wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning Wrenches,
>> 
>> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
>> heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
>> inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? 
>> I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to 
>> detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 
>> watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems 
>> like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled 
>> scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple 
>> weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
>> 
>> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
>> had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>> 
>> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
>> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX 
>> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if 
>> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
>> batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority 
>> of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
>> shutdowns.
>> 
>> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the 
>> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 
>> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these 
>> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long 
>> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most 
>> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to 
>> Home” mode?
>> 
>> Thanks for your time, 
>> Nick A Lucchese
>> 
>> ___
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>> 
>> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[penobscotsolar]

Hi Nick,
   We have about 16 SolArk's installed and have a single 12 kW that has
that "bus imbalance" error every once in a while. It seems to be a
specific appliance (electric mixer) that it does it with, and only
occasionally. I spoke with SolArk about it and they have a small "plug
in" that doesn't cost much that will absorb the imbalance on that
inverter. I bought one and I'll report back on how it works.
   The client is really happy with his system and considers it a minor
nuisance. I'll give him the plug in and see if it helps.
   The other 15 SolArk's (2 8kw and 13 12kw) do not have this problem and
are working perfectly.

Daryl


> Good morning Wrenches,
>
> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but
> have heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues
> with the inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as
> 1400 watts? I could see where these instances would be minimized with
> attention to detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a
> delta of 1400 watts that might occur with something as innocent as a
> toaster oven. Seems like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back
> up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting
> calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer
> the right equipment.
>
> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have
> NOT had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>
> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an
> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX
> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if
> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly
> through batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays
> the majority of the time then the site might likely experience this issue
> with imbalance shutdowns.
>
> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the
> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s
> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these
> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long
> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most
> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited
> to Home” mode?
>
> Thanks for your time,
> Nick A Lucchese
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
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[RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Nick A Lucchese]

Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I 
could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on 
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might 
occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be 
less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d 
be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that 
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority of 
the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
shutdowns.

There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the thought 
of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 but I’m 
kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these shutdowns occur 
even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long enough history with 
them to chime in with your observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled 
with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to Home” mode?

Thanks for your time, 
Nick A Lucchese

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Amos Post]

Thanks Larry,

This would be a 240V to 120V step down configuration correct?  So the sub panel 
would be 120V only?

Best,
Amos


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 4:10 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
> 
> Amos,
> 
> When using it in balancing mode, as seen in the attached image, the PSX will 
> provide 120Vac from either leg and the inverter output should stay balanced. 
> A 240Vac circuit from the main panel goes to the PSX then to a sub panel and 
> any 240Vac loads stay on the main panel.
> 
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 1:49 PM, Amos Post  > wrote:
> 
> We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
> build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
> Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
> sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
> but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
> saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
> motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
> inverter’s output.  
> 
> Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
> “high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
> 120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
> but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  
> Would be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house 
> loads using the PSX-240?..
> 
> 
>Amos Post
>Integrity Energy
>   W 802.763.7023
>C 802.291.2188
> ienergyVT.com 
> Facebook 
> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to 
>> balance the loads?
>> 
>> Larry Crutcher
>> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese > > wrote:
>> 
>> Good morning Wrenches,
>> 
>> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
>> heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
>> inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? 
>> I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to 
>> detail on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 
>> watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems 
>> like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled 
>> scenario but for off grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple 
>> weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
>> 
>> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
>> had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
>> 
>> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
>> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX 
>> mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if 
>> the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
>> batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority 
>> of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
>> shutdowns.
>> 
>> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the 
>> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 
>> 115 but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these 
>> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long 
>> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most 
>> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to 
>> Home” mode?
>> 
>> Thanks for your time, 
>> Nick A Lucchese
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/ 
>> 
>> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Never had this on a Radian or XW BTW. It would be a deal breaker for me
to lose power EVER from this! 

I hope it is wrong! Seem like nice folks at
solark. New construction is always a risk also as contractors have the
junkiest power tools. There are people who think they can arc weld off an
offgrid power system. Pretty crazy! Be careful!  

Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Wed, 3 Feb 2021
15:49:59 -0500, Amos Post  wrote: We have had this issue with a recent
installation. It's a new off-grid house build, and so not many loads to
speak of yet, except mainly power tools. The Solark 12K will not start any
of: portable air compressor, table saw, and sometimes struggles with a
miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, but I have measured close
to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table saw. The air compressor
and table saw are 1.5HP each. What helps is if the motors are warmed up, or
putting another load on the other leg to balance the inverter's output.  
Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for
"high-current" 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240
to 120. My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these
loads, but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the
road... Would be curious to know if there's another way to balance all of
the house loads using the PSX-240?..
  Amos Post
 Integrity Energy
 W
802.763.7023
 C 802.291.2188
 ienergyVT.com [3]  Facebook [4]  
  On Feb 3,
2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com [5] wrote: 
  If it turns out to
be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance the
loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems

 On Feb 3, 2021,
at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote: 
  Good morning Wrenches,

I've
strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400
watts? I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention
to detail on balancing all the loads but if's as little as a delta of 1400
watts that might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems
like it would also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled
scenario but for off grid I'd be bummed to be getting calls every couple
weeks from an off grid client that trusted me to offer the right
equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those
that have NOT had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has
it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home" mode? I have an
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX
mode and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if
the continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly
through batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the
majority of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with
imbalance shutdowns.

There are many attractive features of the SolArk and
I really like the thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger
versus the Radian's 115 but I'm kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the
benefits if these shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of
you have a long enough history with them to chime in with your
observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than
off grid or the "Limited to Home" mode?

Thanks for your time, 
Nick A
Lucchese

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Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3] http://www.ienergyvt.com
[4]
https://www.facebook.com/integrityenergyllp?ref=hl
[5]
mailto:la...@starlightsolar.com
[6] mailto:luccheseso...@me.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[Amos Post]

We have had this issue with a recent installation.  It’s a new off-grid house 
build, and so not many loads to speak of yet, except mainly power tools.  The 
Solark 12K will not start any of: portable air compressor, table saw, and 
sometimes struggles with a miter saw, which are each 16amps or less at 120V, 
but I have measured close to 50amps start up for the air compressor and table 
saw.  The air compressor and table saw are 1.5HP each.  What helps is if the 
motors are warmed up, or putting another load on the other leg to balance the 
inverter’s output.  

Was thinking we would install a couple of dedicated 120V outlets for 
“high-current” 120V loads with a PSX-240, stepping down the inverter's 240 to 
120.  My understanding is this will solve the issue for starting these loads, 
but not sure if we might run into issues with inbalance down the road...  Would 
be curious to know if there’s another way to balance all of the house loads 
using the PSX-240?..


   Amos Post
   Integrity Energy
  W 802.763.7023
   C 802.291.2188
ienergyVT.com 
Facebook 

> On Feb 3, 2021, at 2:41 PM, la...@starlightsolar.com wrote:
> 
> If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to 
> balance the loads?
> 
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  > wrote:
> 
> Good morning Wrenches,
> 
> I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
> heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
> inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? 
> I could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail 
> on balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that 
> might occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would 
> also be less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off 
> grid I’d be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid 
> client that trusted me to offer the right equipment.
> 
> How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
> had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?
> 
> Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
> upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
> and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
> continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
> batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority 
> of the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
> shutdowns.
> 
> There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the 
> thought of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 
> but I’m kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these 
> shutdowns occur even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long 
> enough history with them to chime in with your observations? Are they most 
> reliable for AC coupled with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to 
> Home” mode?
> 
> Thanks for your time, 
> Nick A Lucchese
> 
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Load imbalance issues with SolArk?

[la...@starlightsolar.com]

If it turns out to be true, could you simply add the Outback PSX-240 to balance 
the loads?

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems




On Feb 3, 2021, at 10:52 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:

Good morning Wrenches,

I’ve strongly been considering using the SolArk 12K unit for awhile but have 
heard from a few folks that there can be somewhat frequent issues with the 
inverter shutting down from line to line imbalance. As little as 1400 watts? I 
could see where these instances would be minimized with attention to detail on 
balancing all the loads but if’s as little as a delta of 1400 watts that might 
occur with something as innocent as a toaster oven. Seems like it would also be 
less of an issue in a grid back up or AC coupled scenario but for off grid I’d 
be bummed to be getting calls every couple weeks from an off grid client that 
trusted me to offer the right equipment.

How much of an issue is this? Is it getting exaggerated? Those that have NOT 
had this happening was it on a full time off grid site?

Has it happened less on sites using the "Limited to Home” mode? I have an 
upcoming project that was going to be setup with a couple Radians in HBX mode 
and my thought was perhaps it might be an ideal solution there but if the 
continuity of electrical service was going to be provided mainly through 
batteries and inverting and not through the pass through relays the majority of 
the time then the site might likely experience this issue with imbalance 
shutdowns.

There are many attractive features of the SolArk and I really like the thought 
of taking advantage of the 185 amp DC charger versus the Radian’s 115 but I’m 
kind of thinking the risks may outweigh the benefits if these shutdowns occur 
even once every couple of months. Any of you have a long enough history with 
them to chime in with your observations? Are they most reliable for AC coupled 
with backup rather than off grid or the “Limited to Home” mode?

Thanks for your time, 
Nick A Lucchese

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