Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Luke,
Another thing about the Kohler 14 RESA that I like is that you don't have
to go back after 20-30 hours of run-time to adjust the valves.  That's a
big bonus for an off-grid client that lives a ways out.

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 6:22 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Luke,
>
> Speaking to your questions regarding the 14 RESA; yes, the warranty term
> is reduced for off-grid use.  It goes to 1000 hr or 18 month whichever
> comes first.  We've had decent luck with these units, they are less
> expensive than the 6kW EcoGen.  We've had one controller fail and one motor
> failure, but that machine was ran very hard and neglected.
>
> Kohler is set up much differently than Generac, they defer tech support to
> the master distributor who sells you the unit.  In Colorado, the master
> distributor is EC Power out of Denver and they do a decent job having parts
> and generators in stock.  I think that you are supposed to be Kohler
> certified to do warranty work, but Kohler is more relaxed (and less
> organized) than Generac so I bet there may be some flexibility with that,
> especially if no one is certified in your area.
>
> With this being said, there is nothing great about this machine, and I'm
> looking for something better.
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Bob Ellison <reelli...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have been using a lot of additives in testing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best so far is PRI D for diesel with PRI G for gas This is what the treat
>> locomotives and freighters with for long term storage. Very concentrated,
>> an ounce treats something like 16 gallons.
>>
>> Best to treat when filling and keep tank full at least while not being
>> used. Fill it and park it so to speak. The full tank keeps condensation
>> from forming so rapidly.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2nd would be K 100 MD and MG it has long term storage additives the
>> regular K 100 does not have. Good product but the PRI G/D is better
>>
>>
>>
>> Stabil has not impressed me
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody storing fuel wants to be filling the tanks and treating them NOW,
>> it will probably not be this low in the fall.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is nice to pick up the chain saw, mower or tiller and have it start
>> with no major headaches after a year layover!
>>
>>
>>
>> Just from my testing and experience,
>>
>>
>>
>> Bob Ellison
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>> Behalf Of *Dave
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:21 PM
>> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>>
>>
>>
>> For off grid systems with back up charging powered by diesel, what is the
>> best fuel treatment to add to a 275 gallon diesel fuel tank that is sitting
>> about half full?
>>
>>
>>
>> The summer use of the diesel gen is typically very low until November on
>> a properly sized PV system here in Vermont.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Dave
>>
>>
>>
>> David Palumbo
>>
>> Independent Power LLC
>>
>> 462 Solar Way Drive
>>
>> Hyde Park, VT 05655
>>
>> 802-371-8678 cell
>>
>> 802-888-4917 home
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
>> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Mason
>> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 12:49 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>>
>>
>>
>> This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.
>>
>> Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and
>> algae. Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the
>> contaminants, the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a
>> service.
>>
>> If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a
>> very expensive service.
>>
>> Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without
>> degradation.
>>
>>
>>
>> http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Question to all the generator techs out there.
>>
>>
>>
>> I’ve always been told that

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Luke,

Speaking to your questions regarding the 14 RESA; yes, the warranty term is
reduced for off-grid use.  It goes to 1000 hr or 18 month whichever comes
first.  We've had decent luck with these units, they are less expensive
than the 6kW EcoGen.  We've had one controller fail and one motor failure,
but that machine was ran very hard and neglected.

Kohler is set up much differently than Generac, they defer tech support to
the master distributor who sells you the unit.  In Colorado, the master
distributor is EC Power out of Denver and they do a decent job having parts
and generators in stock.  I think that you are supposed to be Kohler
certified to do warranty work, but Kohler is more relaxed (and less
organized) than Generac so I bet there may be some flexibility with that,
especially if no one is certified in your area.

With this being said, there is nothing great about this machine, and I'm
looking for something better.




On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Bob Ellison <reelli...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have been using a lot of additives in testing.
>
>
>
> Best so far is PRI D for diesel with PRI G for gas This is what the treat
> locomotives and freighters with for long term storage. Very concentrated,
> an ounce treats something like 16 gallons.
>
> Best to treat when filling and keep tank full at least while not being
> used. Fill it and park it so to speak. The full tank keeps condensation
> from forming so rapidly.
>
>
>
> 2nd would be K 100 MD and MG it has long term storage additives the
> regular K 100 does not have. Good product but the PRI G/D is better
>
>
>
> Stabil has not impressed me
>
>
>
> Anybody storing fuel wants to be filling the tanks and treating them NOW,
> it will probably not be this low in the fall.
>
>
>
> It is nice to pick up the chain saw, mower or tiller and have it start
> with no major headaches after a year layover!
>
>
>
> Just from my testing and experience,
>
>
>
> Bob Ellison
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Dave
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:21 PM
> *To:* 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>
>
>
> For off grid systems with back up charging powered by diesel, what is the
> best fuel treatment to add to a 275 gallon diesel fuel tank that is sitting
> about half full?
>
>
>
> The summer use of the diesel gen is typically very low until November on a
> properly sized PV system here in Vermont.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
>
>
>
> David Palumbo
>
> Independent Power LLC
>
> 462 Solar Way Drive
>
> Hyde Park, VT 05655
>
> 802-371-8678 cell
>
> 802-888-4917 home
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
> <re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>] *On Behalf Of *Chris Mason
> *Sent:* Thursday, May 05, 2016 12:49 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>
>
>
> This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.
>
> Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and
> algae. Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the
> contaminants, the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a
> service.
>
> If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a very
> expensive service.
>
> Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without
> degradation.
>
>
>
> http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Question to all the generator techs out there.
>
>
>
> I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long
> periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.
>
> Vs propane which doesn’t care.
>
>
>
> Is that true?
>
> Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> jay
>
>
>
>
>
> On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Chris,
>
>
>
> Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine
> and pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.
> Is there an off-grid warranty on the QT series?
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wr

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Bob Ellison]

I have been using a lot of additives in testing.

 

Best so far is PRI D for diesel with PRI G for gas This is what the treat 
locomotives and freighters with for long term storage. Very concentrated, an 
ounce treats something like 16 gallons.

Best to treat when filling and keep tank full at least while not being used. 
Fill it and park it so to speak. The full tank keeps condensation from forming 
so rapidly.

 

2nd would be K 100 MD and MG it has long term storage additives the regular K 
100 does not have. Good product but the PRI G/D is better

 

Stabil has not impressed me 

 

Anybody storing fuel wants to be filling the tanks and treating them NOW, it 
will probably not be this low in the fall.

 

It is nice to pick up the chain saw, mower or tiller and have it start with no 
major headaches after a year layover!

 

Just from my testing and experience,

 

Bob Ellison 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Dave
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 2:21 PM
To: 'RE-wrenches' <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

For off grid systems with back up charging powered by diesel, what is the best 
fuel treatment to add to a 275 gallon diesel fuel tank that is sitting about 
half full? 

 

The summer use of the diesel gen is typically very low until November on a 
properly sized PV system here in Vermont.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-371-8678 cell

802-888-4917 home

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Mason
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 12:49 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.

Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and algae. 
Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the contaminants, 
the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a service.

If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a very 
expensive service.

Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without 
degradation.

 

http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com 
<mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com> > wrote:

Question to all the generator techs out there.

 

I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long 
periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.

Vs propane which doesn’t care.

 

Is that true?

Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?  

 

Thanks

jay

 

 

On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com 
<mailto:maclew...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

Chris,

 

Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine and 
pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.  Is there 
an off-grid warranty on the QT series?

 

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com 
<mailto:cometenergysyst...@gmail.com> > wrote:

 

 


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-- 

Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician

 

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com> 

264.235.5670

869.662.5670

Skype: netconcepts

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Chris Mason]

That 9KW Aurora generator is almost exactly the same unit I provided to a
customer of mine here, built in China to my specs. The customer is using is
as a sole power source for a restaurant, running it at about 100% to 110%
load 18 hours a day for two years now without issue. The Perkins engine is
a lovely unit.

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 1:34 PM, Starlight Solar Power Systems <
la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:

> Aurora generators can be used in all off grid applications with full
> warranty.
>
> http://www.auroragenerators.com/generators
>
> Larry Crutcher
> Starlight Solar Power Systems
>
>
> On May 5, 2016, at 8:11 AM, Luke Christy  wrote:
>
> Hi Wrenches,
> I have been following this thread with interest ever since Lena started it
> a few days ago.
> I don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I would chime in.
>
> I struggle with the same issues I've heard from others on the list of
> needing  good quality, smaller (8-15kW) generator options for off-grid. My
> interpretation of the consensus is that there is a lot of stuff available
> in the higher dollar, commercial category, but for smaller gensets the
> options still seem limited and somewhat unsatisfactory. I have been using
> Generac EcoGen units for the last 5 years, and they have been generally ok,
> though in my opinion the quality is not there. In addition, when I finally
> had a major failure on a unit that required warranty service, the process
> of getting help from Generac with that was a nightmare. If not for the
> generous help of several folks on this list, it would have been even worse.
> As Allan pointed out upthread, Generac is simply not set up to deal with
> the needs of Wrenches who support off-grid installations. This is
> especially true for remote locations.
>
> For those of you who have been using the 14RES from Kohler, do they reduce
> the warranty period for Off-Grid installations?
>
> -Luke
>
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25
> NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03
>
>
> Solar Gain Services, LLC
> PO Box 531
> Monte Vista, CO. 81144
> sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
> 719.588.3044
> www.sgsrenewables.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
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>
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>
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>


-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dave]

For off grid systems with back up charging powered by diesel, what is the best 
fuel treatment to add to a 275 gallon diesel fuel tank that is sitting about 
half full? 

 

The summer use of the diesel gen is typically very low until November on a 
properly sized PV system here in Vermont.

 

Thanks,

Dave

 

David Palumbo 

Independent Power LLC

462 Solar Way Drive

Hyde Park, VT 05655

802-371-8678 cell

802-888-4917 home

 

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Mason
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 12:49 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.

Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and algae. 
Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the contaminants, 
the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a service.

If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a very 
expensive service.

Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without 
degradation.

 

http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html

 

 

 

 

 

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay <jay.pe...@gmail.com> wrote:

Question to all the generator techs out there.

 

I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long 
periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.

Vs propane which doesn’t care.

 

Is that true?

Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?  

 

Thanks

jay

 

 

On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis <maclew...@gmail.com> wrote:

 

Chris,

 

Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine and 
pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.  Is there 
an off-grid warranty on the QT series?

 

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason <cometenergysyst...@gmail.com> 
wrote:

 

 


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-- 

Chris Mason

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™

Solar Design Engineer

Generac Generators Industrial technician

 

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com> 

264.235.5670

869.662.5670

Skype: netconcepts

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Aurora generators can be used in all off grid applications with full warranty.

http://www.auroragenerators.com/generators

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems


On May 5, 2016, at 8:11 AM, Luke Christy  wrote:

Hi Wrenches,
I have been following this thread with interest ever since Lena started it a 
few days ago.
I don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I would chime in. 

I struggle with the same issues I've heard from others on the list of needing  
good quality, smaller (8-15kW) generator options for off-grid. My 
interpretation of the consensus is that there is a lot of stuff available in 
the higher dollar, commercial category, but for smaller gensets the options 
still seem limited and somewhat unsatisfactory. I have been using Generac 
EcoGen units for the last 5 years, and they have been generally ok, though in 
my opinion the quality is not there. In addition, when I finally had a major 
failure on a unit that required warranty service, the process of getting help 
from Generac with that was a nightmare. If not for the generous help of several 
folks on this list, it would have been even worse. As Allan pointed out 
upthread, Generac is simply not set up to deal with the needs of Wrenches who 
support off-grid installations. This is especially true for remote locations. 

For those of you who have been using the 14RES from Kohler, do they reduce the 
warranty period for Off-Grid installations? 

-Luke

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03   


Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com









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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Chris Mason]

I haven't heard anyone discuss Generac's diesel Protector series. Has
anyone tried them? We have a couple of customers with them, they are happy.

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 12:48 PM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

> This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.
> Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and
> algae. Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the
> contaminants, the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a
> service.
> If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a very
> expensive service.
> Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without
> degradation.
>
> http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html
>
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay  wrote:
>
>> Question to all the generator techs out there.
>>
>> I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long
>> periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.
>> Vs propane which doesn’t care.
>>
>> Is that true?
>> Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?
>>
>> Thanks
>> jay
>>
>>
>> On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>
>> Chris,
>>
>> Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine
>> and pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.
>> Is there an off-grid warranty on the QT series?
>>
>> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason > > wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>
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> --
> Chris Mason
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
> Solar Design Engineer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> www.cometsolar.com 
> 264.235.5670
> 869.662.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
>



-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Chris Mason]

This is the major disadvantage of diesel over propane.
Diesel can be corrupted with bacteria, water through condensation and
algae. Fuel polishing is the process to clean the diesel and remove the
contaminants, the equipment is expensive so it is normally done as a
service.
If the fuel goes bad, it can ruin the injectors and pump, requiring a very
expensive service.
Propane dissipates in the engine, and propane stores indefinitely without
degradation.

http://criticalfueltech.com/faq.html





On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 10:02 AM, jay  wrote:

> Question to all the generator techs out there.
>
> I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long
> periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.
> Vs propane which doesn’t care.
>
> Is that true?
> Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?
>
> Thanks
> jay
>
>
> On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
> Chris,
>
> Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine
> and pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.
> Is there an off-grid warranty on the QT series?
>
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason 
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>
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Chris Mason
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Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

Luke,

I concur due to EPA regs we have lost appropriately sized 6-14 KW efficient, 
1800 RPM (or slower), water cooled long life generators. There is business 
opportunity here all you gear heads


Dana Orzel 
Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 
O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Luke Christy
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2016 9:11 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

Hi Wrenches,
I have been following this thread with interest ever since Lena started it a 
few days ago.
I don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I would chime in. 

I struggle with the same issues I've heard from others on the list of needing  
good quality, smaller (8-15kW) generator options for off-grid. My 
interpretation of the consensus is that there is a lot of stuff available in 
the higher dollar, commercial category, but for smaller gensets the options 
still seem limited and somewhat unsatisfactory. I have been using Generac 
EcoGen units for the last 5 years, and they have been generally ok, though in 
my opinion the quality is not there. In addition, when I finally had a major 
failure on a unit that required warranty service, the process of getting help 
from Generac with that was a nightmare. If not for the generous help of several 
folks on this list, it would have been even worse. As Allan pointed out 
upthread, Generac is simply not set up to deal with the needs of Wrenches who 
support off-grid installations. This is especially true for remote locations. 

For those of you who have been using the 14RES from Kohler, do they reduce the 
warranty period for Off-Grid installations? 

-Luke

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03   


Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com

   







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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Michael Morningstar]

I've been using Cummins RS 22's, where a propane fuel source is dictated (my 
preference is diesel). They are 20kw, liquid cooled, 1800rpm, and available 
without enclosures and cost a little less than 10K. A little bit larger than 
what we are talking about, and usually oversized for a lot of my applications, 
but I refuse to deal with disposable generators and the crappy support that 
comes with them. Cummins has always been great to work with. Generac or Kholer 
have great support when your installing 500kw gensets in heavy commercial or 
industrial applications!

Michael

> On May 5, 2016, at 8:11 AM, Luke Christy  wrote:
> 
> Hi Wrenches,
> I have been following this thread with interest ever since Lena started it a 
> few days ago.
> I don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I would chime in. 
> 
> I struggle with the same issues I've heard from others on the list of needing 
>  good quality, smaller (8-15kW) generator options for off-grid. My 
> interpretation of the consensus is that there is a lot of stuff available in 
> the higher dollar, commercial category, but for smaller gensets the options 
> still seem limited and somewhat unsatisfactory. I have been using Generac 
> EcoGen units for the last 5 years, and they have been generally ok, though in 
> my opinion the quality is not there. In addition, when I finally had a major 
> failure on a unit that required warranty service, the process of getting help 
> from Generac with that was a nightmare. If not for the generous help of 
> several folks on this list, it would have been even worse. As Allan pointed 
> out upthread, Generac is simply not set up to deal with the needs of Wrenches 
> who support off-grid installations. This is especially true for remote 
> locations. 
> 
> For those of you who have been using the 14RES from Kohler, do they reduce 
> the warranty period for Off-Grid installations? 
> 
> -Luke
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 
> NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03   
> 
> 
> Solar Gain Services, LLC
> PO Box 531
> Monte Vista, CO. 81144
> sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
> 719.588.3044
> www.sgsrenewables.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Luke Christy]

Hi Wrenches,
I have been following this thread with interest ever since Lena started it a 
few days ago.
I don't have a whole lot to add but I thought I would chime in. 

I struggle with the same issues I've heard from others on the list of needing  
good quality, smaller (8-15kW) generator options for off-grid. My 
interpretation of the consensus is that there is a lot of stuff available in 
the higher dollar, commercial category, but for smaller gensets the options 
still seem limited and somewhat unsatisfactory. I have been using Generac 
EcoGen units for the last 5 years, and they have been generally ok, though in 
my opinion the quality is not there. In addition, when I finally had a major 
failure on a unit that required warranty service, the process of getting help 
from Generac with that was a nightmare. If not for the generous help of several 
folks on this list, it would have been even worse. As Allan pointed out 
upthread, Generac is simply not set up to deal with the needs of Wrenches who 
support off-grid installations. This is especially true for remote locations. 

For those of you who have been using the 14RES from Kohler, do they reduce the 
warranty period for Off-Grid installations? 

-Luke

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional™: Certification #031409-25 
NABCEP Certified Solar Heating Installer™: Certification #ST032611-03   


Solar Gain Services, LLC
PO Box 531
Monte Vista, CO. 81144
sgsrenewab...@gmail.com
719.588.3044
www.sgsrenewables.com

   







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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[jay]

Question to all the generator techs out there.

I’ve always been told that you don’t want a diesel to be sitting for long 
periods.  Fuel can go bad, all that sort of thing.
Vs propane which doesn’t care.

Is that true?
Or in mild climates will a monthly must run be OK?  

Thanks
jay


> On May 5, 2016, at 6:13 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
> Chris,
> 
> Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine and 
> pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.  Is 
> there an off-grid warranty on the QT series?
> 
> On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason  > wrote:
> 
> 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Mac Lewis]

Chris,

Yes, this is a good point.  The QT series from Generac is a great machine
and pricing is better than any other machine in that size that I've seen.
Is there an off-grid warranty on the QT series?

On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 3:14 AM, Chris Mason 
wrote:

> What about the Generac QT commercial units. Liquid cooled, enclosed, sold
> engines, inexpensive.
> For diesel, the Generac protector series meets your requirements.
> For mobile, generac acquired Magnum, they have some beautiful models.
> On May 4, 2016 20:27, "jay"  wrote:
>
> Hi Allan,
>
> I was at our new Kohler dealer today.  They had a trailer mounted, propane
>  water cooled 25kw with fuel storage and sound enclosure, really nice
> machine, but it was $29,000
>
> Its  kind of weird that there isn’t anything in the lower sizes that is
> water cooled, good quality, in propane anyway.
>
> jay
>
> peltz power
>
> On May 4, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Allan Sindelar 
> wrote:
>
> Lena and all,
> I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I
> was hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette
> (always positively over the years that this question has come up), one
> 5.5kW Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at
> close to sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these
> suggestions.
>
> I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen,
> hoping that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name.
> I think now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many
> problems have been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is
> poorly suited to the off grid market.
>
> Thank you to all who replied.
> Allan
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
> On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:
>
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6
> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
> year).
>
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
> computer.
>
> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
> held to tougher emissions standards.
>
> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
> are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>
> Any suggestions appreciated!
>
> Lena Wilensky
>
> www.nunatakenergy.com
> 970-642-5554
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
> Cert. #R02907-17
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Chris Mason]

What about the Generac QT commercial units. Liquid cooled, enclosed, sold
engines, inexpensive.
For diesel, the Generac protector series meets your requirements.
For mobile, generac acquired Magnum, they have some beautiful models.
On May 4, 2016 20:27, "jay"  wrote:

Hi Allan,

I was at our new Kohler dealer today.  They had a trailer mounted, propane
 water cooled 25kw with fuel storage and sound enclosure, really nice
machine, but it was $29,000

Its  kind of weird that there isn’t anything in the lower sizes that is
water cooled, good quality, in propane anyway.

jay

peltz power

On May 4, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:

Lena and all,
I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I
was hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette
(always positively over the years that this question has come up), one
5.5kW Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at
close to sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these
suggestions.

I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen,
hoping that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name.
I think now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many
problems have been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is
poorly suited to the off grid market.

Thank you to all who replied.
Allan

*Allan Sindelar*
al...@sindelarsolar.com
NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
*505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*


On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6
yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
we run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
held to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Wrenches,

I do like that the Gillette generator starter battery can be effectively
charged with a 20W solar panel.  That's is a big bonus.  There are a couple
of problems though. We have seen a disproportionate failure of the
rotor/stator assembly on these, much higher than Kohler, Generac and
Cummins units.  This is (probably) due to the high-voltage brushless design
on the exciter ckt, but maybe there was a quality problem in other parts of
the can.  They offer pretty good, consistent tech support (seems like only
one guy answers the phone), but with engine issues they punt to the engine
manufacturer which is worthless.

I think the best generator depends on your area and application.  It also
depends on who is around to offer technical support and service to your
customer.  We have a great industrial generator tech in our area, who gives
us over-the-phone advice all of the time, but he is usually working on
commercial and industrial sites and can't get to these off-grid residences
in a timely manner (usually 3 months out).  We decided to get certified on
Kohler and Generac, not really because we wanted to, but more out of
necessity for our area for our off-grid customers.  Of the two, we prefer
Kohler slightly because they have a better product and parts distribution
system in our area.  Generac has much more logical service manuals though.
In general, Kohler manuals are a mess, but we've had decent luck with the
14RESA as our go to off-grid generator.  We are always looking for
something better though...

Thanks






On Thu, May 5, 2016 at 5:13 AM, Tump  wrote:

> FYI the;  Onan "Command Mobil" IS available wired in either straight 120
> OR 120/240, this is the 7k derated to 6.5 when using propane. It is small
> but does offer a good reliable choice. It does require a stand and I will
> use a 90* cold air duct to move the exhaust air away from the intake. That
> being said this has ALWAYS been quite problematic with in the industry
> especially now w/ CA. ARB regs and EPA regs. odd that one can install a
> diesel easier then a propane gen set.
>
> On May 4, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Allan Sindelar 
> wrote:
>
> Lena and all,
> I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I
> was hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette
> (always positively over the years that this question has come up), one
> 5.5kW Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at
> close to sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these
> suggestions.
>
> I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen,
> hoping that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name.
> I think now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many
> problems have been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is
> poorly suited to the off grid market.
>
> Thank you to all who replied.
> Allan
>
> *Allan Sindelar*
> al...@sindelarsolar.com
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> *505 780-2738 <505%20780-2738> cell*
>
>
> On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:
>
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6
> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
> year).
>
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
> computer.
>
> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
> held to tougher emissions standards.
>
> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
> are cold 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Tump]

FYI the;  Onan "Command Mobil" IS available wired in either straight 120 OR 
120/240, this is the 7k derated to 6.5 when using propane. It is small but does 
offer a good reliable choice. It does require a stand and I will use a 90* cold 
air duct to move the exhaust air away from the intake. That being said this has 
ALWAYS been quite problematic with in the industry especially now w/ CA. ARB 
regs and EPA regs. odd that one can install a diesel easier then a propane gen 
set.
> On May 4, 2016, at 1:30 PM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> Lena and all,
> I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I was 
> hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette 
> (always positively over the years that this question has come up), one 5.5kW 
> Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at close to 
> sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these 
> suggestions.
> 
> I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen, hoping 
> that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name. I think 
> now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many problems have 
> been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is poorly suited to the 
> off grid market.
> 
> Thank you to all who replied. 
> Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
>  al...@sindelarsolar.com 
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
> On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:
>> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
>> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs 
>> ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>> 
>> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and 
>> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>> 
>> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
>> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).
>> 
>> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
>> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather 
>> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, 
>> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on 
>> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the 
>> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do 
>> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual 
>> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore 
>> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset 
>> computer.
>> 
>> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
>> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are 
>> held to tougher emissions standards.
>> 
>> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these 
>> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES 
>> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going 
>> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are 
>> cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>> 
>> Any suggestions appreciated!
>> 
>> Lena Wilensky
>> 
>> www.nunatakenergy.com 
>> 970-642-5554
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
>> Cert. #R02907-17
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> List rules & etiquette:
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>> 
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org 
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> 
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> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> 
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[jay]

Hi Allan,

I was at our new Kohler dealer today.  They had a trailer mounted, propane  
water cooled 25kw with fuel storage and sound enclosure, really nice machine, 
but it was $29,000

Its  kind of weird that there isn’t anything in the lower sizes that is water 
cooled, good quality, in propane anyway.

jay

peltz power

> On May 4, 2016, at 10:30 AM, Allan Sindelar  wrote:
> 
> Lena and all,
> I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns and I was 
> hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear of Gillette 
> (always positively over the years that this question has come up), one 5.5kW 
> Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but an Outback VFX at close to 
> sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I have nothing to add to these 
> suggestions.
> 
> I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac EcoGen, hoping 
> that this would fill this need and restore Generac as a worthy name. I think 
> now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it works, but too many problems have 
> been noted here, and Generac's dealer support system is poorly suited to the 
> off grid market.
> 
> Thank you to all who replied. 
> Allan
> 
> Allan Sindelar
>  al...@sindelarsolar.com 
> 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder (Retired), Positive Energy, Inc.
> 505 780-2738 cell
> 
>  
> On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky wrote:
>> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
>> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs 
>> ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>> 
>> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and 
>> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>> 
>> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
>> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).
>> 
>> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
>> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather 
>> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, 
>> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on 
>> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the 
>> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do 
>> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual 
>> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore 
>> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset 
>> computer.
>> 
>> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
>> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are 
>> held to tougher emissions standards.
>> 
>> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these 
>> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES 
>> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going 
>> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are 
>> cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>> 
>> Any suggestions appreciated!
>> 
>> Lena Wilensky
>> 
>> www.nunatakenergy.com 
>> 970-642-5554
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
>> Cert. #R02907-17
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>> 
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org 
>> 
>> 
>> List-Archive: 
>> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html 
>> 
>> 
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm 
>> 
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> www.members.re-wrenches.org 
>> 
> 
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org 
> 
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Allan Sindelar]

  
  
Lena and all,
I was watching this thread closely, as I have shared your concerns
and I was hoping to hear of any new solutions. In this thread I hear
of Gillette (always positively over the years that this question has
come up), one 5.5kW Onan RV set (120V only and too small for all but
an Outback VFX at close to sea level), and Hardy diesel units. I
have nothing to add to these suggestions.

I went out on a limb a few years ago in suggesting the Generac
EcoGen, hoping that this would fill this need and restore Generac as
a worthy name. I think now I have to just say "eh..." - yes, it
works, but too many problems have been noted here, and Generac's
dealer support system is poorly suited to the off grid market.

Thank you to all who replied. 
Allan


  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@sindelarsolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder (Retired), Positive
  Energy,
  Inc.
505 780-2738 cell


 
  

On 4/28/2016 10:19 AM, Lena Wilensky
  wrote:


  I did some searches on the list for what folks are
doing for off-grid propane generators these days, but all the
threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I was hoping to get
some more current info.


We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at
  altitude), and we run into 2 main problem areas:


First is the warranty - either there are no units
  warranteed for off-grid use, or there are only a couple of
  models and the warranty is short (1 year).


Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come
  with the "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but
  mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb heater must be
  installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for
  warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
  all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains). 
  According to the Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We
  have set up older units to do battery charge only during the
  day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it
  sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
  since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of
  the genset computer.


The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues
  are due to EPA considering off-grid use as prime power as
  opposed to standby, so they are held to tougher emissions
  standards.


Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are
  actually doing these days - still the standby units they
  kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from Kohler and the 13kw
  unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to the
  smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
  are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?


Any suggestions appreciated!

  

  

  Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17

  

  

  

  
  
  
  
  ___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

Hardy has been purchased by SW Prod.; they are in of PHX, AZ.

Great unit I agree, but 1 - not everyone is happy or comfortable with owning a 
diesel & 2 - at elevation here in CO with –F° temps it is not always a good 
choice without a warmed shed.

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of RE Ellison
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2016 8:00 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

Check out the hardy Diesel15 kW Perkins

It's available and integrated fuel tank single or double walland a whole bunch 
of other goodies including autostart comes along with it

 

Like I mentioned in the last message the The folks I know they're in real cool 
places put them in a small insulated building with a small propane wall heater

 

Starting doesn't seem to be an issue and the belief is that it is cheaper than 
running an electric heater

 

Later

Bob


On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:

Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out there, 
please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every source I 
have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about 2000+/- hours 
before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @ 3600 RPM, yuck.

There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche. 

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Ray Walters
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off grid 
systems don't need anything that big.
Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,




R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming issues 
but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid

Jerry

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Ray Walters 

Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00) 

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update? 

 

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long as 
the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
(must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to call 
customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  This is 
off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope Generac reps are 
lurking here, because these are really not much better than the crop of stand 
by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell service 
to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?





R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 

12.5 kW w Subaru 

Jeremy Rodriguez  

Solar Installation And Design Expert 

All Solar, Inc. 

1463 M St

Penrose Colorado 81240

 

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!


On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info. 

 

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem a

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[RE Ellison]

Check out the hardy Diesel15 kW Perkins
It's available and integrated fuel tank single or double walland a whole bunch 
of other goodies including autostart comes along with it

Like I mentioned in the last message the The folks I know they're in real cool 
places put them in a small insulated building with a small propane wall heater

Starting doesn't seem to be an issue and the belief is that it is cheaper than 
running an electric heater

Later
Bob

> On Apr 29, 2016, at 7:54 AM, Dana <d...@solarwork.com> wrote:
> 
> Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out there, 
> please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every source I 
> have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about 2000+/- hours 
> before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @ 3600 RPM, yuck.
> There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche.
>  
> 
> Dana Orzel
> Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136
> E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com
> O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988" 
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>  
>  
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On 
> Behalf Of Ray Walters
> Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
> looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
> Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off 
> grid systems don't need anything that big.
> Do you have a model that I should be looking at?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
>  
>  
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>  
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>  
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
> 
> Jeremy Rodriguez 
> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>  
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
> 
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:
> 
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
> generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so 
> I was hoping to get some more current info.
>  
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
> run into 2 main problem areas:
>  
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).
>  
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" 
> aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually st

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

Ditto here, if there is a 10-15KW, 1800 RPM water cooled generator out
there, please share. The EPA requirements & definitions have killed every
source I have had. An air cooled 3600 RPM generator is good for about
2000+/- hours before rebuild or replacement. Add to that the noise levels @
3600 RPM, yuck.

There is a real biz opportunity here for a company to fill this niche. 

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
Behalf Of Ray Walters
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 5:15 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be
looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off
grid systems don't need anything that big.
Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,



R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:

Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming
issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid

Jerry

 

 

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy ST III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 

 Original message 

From: Ray Walters 

Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00) 

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update? 

 

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long
as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the
starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below
0, but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them.
Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging
(must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to
call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.
This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope
Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than
the crop of stand by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell
service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?




R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 

12.5 kW w Subaru 

Jeremy Rodriguez  

Solar Installation And Design Expert 

All Solar, Inc. 

1463 M St

Penrose Colorado 81240

 

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!


On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs
ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info. 

 

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
we run into 2 main problem areas:

 

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
year).

 

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
computer.

 

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
held to tougher emissions standards.

 

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are
cold climate folks dealing with 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Roy Rakobitsch]

Does the generator need to feed an inverter /charger input? In other words,
does it need to provide AC/60hz?

If it can be a DC genset (which is usually easier on the system) check out
Polar Power.  http://www.polarpower.com/


Roy Rakobitsch
NABCEP Certified Small Wind Installer®
Certified Advanced Tower Climbing, Safety & Rescue
Wind/PV Design Engineer
Windsine LLC
631-514-4166
www.windsine.org




On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 6:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
>
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as
> long as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post)
> and the starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below
> 0, but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them.
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better
> than the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
>
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760
>
> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
>
> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana
> 12.5 kW w Subaru
>
> Jeremy Rodriguez
> Solar Installation And Design Expert
> All Solar, Inc.
> 1463 M St
> Penrose Colorado 81240
>
> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>
> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky < <l...@nunatakenergy.com>
> l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:
>
> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6
> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>
> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>
> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
> year).
>
> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
> computer.
>
> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
> held to tougher emissions standards.
>
> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
> are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>
> Any suggestions appreciated!
>
> Lena Wilensky
>
> www.nunatakenergy.com
> 970-642-5554
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
> Cert. #R02907-17
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive:
> http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html
>
> Li

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana Solar work]

Onan smallest is 20kw for 1800 rpm & water cool

Dana Orzel 2087217003
"Follow the flow of your internal river, acknowledging the put-ons & put-outs."

On Apr 28, 2016, at 5:15 PM, Ray Walters <r...@solarray.com> wrote:

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after  We'd be 
looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most off grid 
systems don't need anything that big.
Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,
R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
> On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
> 
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with   no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
>> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
>> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
>> 
>> Jeremy Rodriguez 
>> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1463 M St
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>> 
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
>>> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 
>>> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>>> 
>>> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and 
>>> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>>> 
>>> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
>>> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 
>>> year).
>>> 
>>> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
>>> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather 
>>> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, 
>>> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on 
>>> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the 
>>> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do 
>>> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual 
>>> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore 
>>> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset 
>>> computer.
>>> 
>>> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
>>> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are 
>>> held to tougher emissions standards.
>>> 
>>> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these 
>>> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES 
>>> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going 
>>> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how 
>>> are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[RE Ellison]

I have a customer with a Perkins from Hardy Diesel in an insulated building 
with a wall mount propane heater

Constant propane use most of the winter but it keeps a small building warm enuf 
that starting the generator is not a problem it happens to be a diesel

That made more sense for his installation then block heaters and all the rest 
of that

Plus the inverters and the battery bank are in a nice comfortable room

This one happens to be a 16 kW with a Perkins power plant

Bob

> On Apr 28, 2016, at 7:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming 
> issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
> Jerry
> 
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Ray Walters
> Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?
> 
> FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as long 
> as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and the 
> starter battery is kept fully charged.
> This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
> but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
> We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
> Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
> (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to 
> call customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  
> This is off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope 
> Generac reps are lurking here, because these are really not much better than 
> the crop of stand by generators.
>  IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
> service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?
> 
> R.Ray Walters
> CTO, Solarray, Inc
> Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
> Licensed Master Electrician
> Solar Design Engineer
> 303 505-8760
>> On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
>> Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
>> 12.5 kW w Subaru 
>> 
>> Jeremy Rodriguez 
>> Solar Installation And Design Expert 
>> All Solar, Inc.
>> 1463 M St
>> Penrose Colorado 81240
>> 
>> Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!
>> 
>> On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
>>> propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 
>>> yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.
>>> 
>>> We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and 
>>> we run into 2 main problem areas:
>>> 
>>> First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid 
>>> use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 
>>> year).
>>> 
>>> Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
>>> "off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather 
>>> kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, 
>>> but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on 
>>> all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the 
>>> Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do 
>>> battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual 
>>> switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore 
>>> since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset 
>>> computer.
>>> 
>>> The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
>>> considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are 
>>> held to tougher emissions standards.
>>> 
>>> Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these 
>>> days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES 
>>> from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going 
>>> back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how 
>>> are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?
>>> 
>>> Any suggestions appreciated!
>>> 
>>> Lena Wilensky
>>> 
>>> www.nunatakenergy.com
>>> 970-642-5

Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Ray Walters]

I haven't seen anything from them that looks like what we're after We'd 
be looking for 10kW to 15 kW  water cooled 1800 rpm. Propane fired.
Everyone makes models in the 30kW + range that fit the bill, but most 
off grid systems don't need anything that big.

Do you have a model that I should be looking at?

Thanks,

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 5:00 PM, jerrysgarage01 wrote:
Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no 
programming issues but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid

Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone


 Original message 
From: Ray Walters
Date:04/28/2016 7:28 AM (GMT-10:00)
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, 
as long as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent 
post) and the starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps 
below 0, but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with 
them. Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on 
board charging (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting 
battery)  We even had to call customer service to get an authorization 
code to set up remote start.  This is off grid with no internet or 
cell service; ridiculous.  I hope Generac reps are lurking here, 
because these are really not much better than the crop of stand by 
generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require 
cell service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled 
Kohlers?


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana
12.5 kW w Subaru

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation And Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> 
wrote:


I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for 
off-grid propane generators these days, but all the threads I found 
were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.


We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at 
altitude), and we run into 2 main problem areas:


First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for 
off-grid use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty 
is short (1 year).


Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold 
weather kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to 
actually start, but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a 
thermostat (read: "on all the time from Nov-April" here in the 
mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it takes a steady 
50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during the 
day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like 
we can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all 
pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.


The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to 
EPA considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, 
so they are held to tougher emissions standards.


Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing 
these days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for 
off-grid? 12RES from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  
Have folks been going back to the smaller gas units from Honda and 
running them more?  And how are cold climate folks dealing with the 
heating issue?


Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com <http://www.nunatakenergy.com>
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[jerrysgarage01]

Have you looked at Cummins,  we have have great luck and no programming issues 
but battery charging needs to be added foroff grid
Jerry


Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Ray Walters 
<r...@solarray.com> Date:04/28/2016  7:28 AM  (GMT-10:00) 
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update? 
FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as 
long as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent post) and 
the starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps below 0, 
but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with them. 
Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board charging 
(must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We even had to call 
customer service to get an authorization code to set up remote start.  This is 
off grid with no internet or cell service; ridiculous.  I hope Generac reps are 
lurking here, because these are really not much better than the crop of stand 
by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell service 
to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?

R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer, 
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760
On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:
Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana 
12.5 kW w Subaru 

Jeremy Rodriguez 
Solar Installation And Design Expert 
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky <l...@nunatakenergy.com> wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, 
or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" 
units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb 
heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for 
warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from 
Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it 
takes a steady   50W. We have set up older units to do battery 
charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it 
sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all 
pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held 
to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days 
- still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from 
Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to 
the smaller gas units from Honda and running them   more?  And how 
are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Dana]

For the heater on the intake pipe issue we only run the heater off the 
generator output to keep the intake breather from icing up while running. You 
may need to a bit of rewiring.

 

Have you looked at SW products [They bought Hardy Diesel] T - 480 625 5195?

 

They still have 12KW water cooled with Ford engines.

 



Dana Orzel 

Great Solar Works, Inc -  NABCEP # 051112-136

E - d...@solarwork.com  - Web - solarwork.com 

O - 970.626.5253  C - 208.721.7003

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Lena Wilensky
Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 10:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

 

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info.

 

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

 

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, 
or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).

 

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" 
units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb 
heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for 
warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from 
Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it 
takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during 
the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like we 
can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all pre-configured and 
pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.

 

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held 
to tougher emissions standards.

 

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days 
- still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from 
Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to 
the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are cold 
climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

 

Any suggestions appreciated!




Lena Wilensky
  
<http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w>
 
www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17
  
<http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067827e4b0ec57163c45c5/1392932911551/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Lena.jpg?format=300w>
 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Ray Walters]

FYI,  generally we haven't had cold start issues with propane units, as 
long as the pipe is sized properly ( as mentioned in another recent 
post) and the starter battery is kept fully charged.
This is based on about 20 years experience in the Rockies with temps 
below 0, but not 40 below.  We don't use block heaters, carb heaters, etc.
We currently have been using Generac Ecogen, but not that happy with 
them. Cheap air cooled motor, way too many computer gizmos, no on board 
charging (must have AC power or PV to charge the starting battery)  We 
even had to call customer service to get an authorization code to set up 
remote start.  This is off grid with no internet or cell service; 
ridiculous.  I hope Generac reps are lurking here, because these are 
really not much better than the crop of stand by generators.
 IMO  no off grid generator should have a phantom load, or require cell 
service to commission.  What happened to the old water cooled Kohlers?


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 4/28/2016 11:17 AM, Jeremy Rodriguez wrote:

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana
12.5 kW w Subaru

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation And Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky > wrote:


I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid 
propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 
5-6 yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.


We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at 
altitude), and we run into 2 main problem areas:


First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for 
off-grid use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty 
is short (1 year).


Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the 
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold 
weather kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to 
actually start, but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a 
thermostat (read: "on all the time from Nov-April" here in the 
mountains). According to the Kohler tech support it takes a steady 
50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during the 
day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like 
we can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all 
pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.


The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to 
EPA considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so 
they are held to tougher emissions standards.


Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing 
these days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for 
off-grid? 12RES from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  
Have folks been going back to the smaller gas units from Honda and 
running them more?  And how are cold climate folks dealing with the 
heating issue?


Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com 
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Jeremy Rodriguez]

Check out Gillette generators. Made in Indiana
12.5 kW w Subaru

Jeremy Rodriguez
Solar Installation And Design Expert
All Solar, Inc.
1463 M St
Penrose Colorado 81240

Sent by Jeremy's iPhone. Sorry for typos and shorthand!

On Apr 28, 2016, at 10:20 AM, Lena Wilensky 
> wrote:

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, 
or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" 
units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb 
heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for 
warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from 
Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it 
takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during 
the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like we 
can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all pre-configured and 
pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held 
to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days 
- still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from 
Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to 
the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are cold 
climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w]
www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067827e4b0ec57163c45c5/1392932911551/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Lena.jpg?format=300w]
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Kevin Pegg]

Hi Lena,

You might want to give these folks a call, they may have a unit that could work 
for you.
https://www.gillettegenerators.com/products/1/SPS-120#

We are currently installing a 40 kW propane generator that we had Gillette 
custom build for us for off-grid. Propane powered block heater, minimal phantom 
loads, etc. Won't know until this winter how well it works. They were good to 
work with, and even when the client changed fuel from CNG to LPG moments before 
the crated unit was ready to ship, they were able to make changes.

That all being said, I'd rather work with diesels for off-grid. Engine will 
cost 2x to buy but 1/2 to run.

Kevin

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Lena Wilensky
Sent: April-28-16 9:19 AM
To: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid propane 
generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6 yrs ago, so I 
was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and we 
run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid use, 
or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1 year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the "off-grid" 
units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather kit" aka carb 
heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start, but also for 
warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on all the time from 
Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the Kohler tech support it 
takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do battery charge only during 
the day, and have the carb heater on a manual switch, but it sounds like we 
can't really get at these circuits anymore since they're all pre-configured and 
pre-wired in the guts of the genset computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA 
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are held 
to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these days 
- still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES from 
Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going back to 
the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how are cold 
climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/t/52fd4d40e4b0c0844a0eb2de/1393270590052/?format=1500w]
www.nunatakenergy.com<http://www.nunatakenergy.com>
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17
[http://static.squarespace.com/static/52f26626e4b049d9fe1f4f70/53067822e4b0822d0c7053a4/53067827e4b0ec57163c45c5/1392932911551/NABCEP%20PV%20Seal%20Lena.jpg?format=300w]
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[RE-wrenches] Off-grid generator update?

[Lena Wilensky]

I did some searches on the list for what folks are doing for off-grid
propane generators these days, but all the threads I found were from 5-6
yrs ago, so I was hoping to get some more current info.

We're looking for about a 10kw+ propane unit (big derate at altitude), and
we run into 2 main problem areas:

First is the warranty - either there are no units warranteed for off-grid
use, or there are only a couple of models and the warranty is short (1
year).

Second, and perhaps larger, is all the loads that now come with the
"off-grid" units.  The computer takes some, but mostly the "cold weather
kit" aka carb heater must be installed in our climate (to actually start,
but also for warrantee), and it's set up to be on a thermostat (read: "on
all the time from Nov-April" here in the mountains).  According to the
Kohler tech support it takes a steady 50W. We have set up older units to do
battery charge only during the day, and have the carb heater on a manual
switch, but it sounds like we can't really get at these circuits anymore
since they're all pre-configured and pre-wired in the guts of the genset
computer.

The Kohler and Onan support folks said both these issues are due to EPA
considering off-grid use as prime power as opposed to standby, so they are
held to tougher emissions standards.

Whatever the reasons, we're wondering what people are actually doing these
days - still the standby units they kind-of warrantee for off-grid? 12RES
from Kohler and the 13kw unit from Onan?  Generac?  Have folks been going
back to the smaller gas units from Honda and running them more?  And how
are cold climate folks dealing with the heating issue?

Any suggestions appreciated!

Lena Wilensky

www.nunatakenergy.com
970-642-5554
NABCEP Certified PV Installer:
Cert. #R02907-17
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