Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-09 Thread bob--- via RE-wrenches


William,  you are correct that it is a little harder on the capacitor 
due to ripple current caused by
the little jumps in waveform.  This is where the series inductance will 
help the filtering a bit too.
The added L  will add that bit of needed impedance to complete the L-C  
filter.


The SW was sure a great inverter and has stood the test of time in many 
applications.
I think it if had a fourth and smaller section, it could have been 
perfect but I would say

it was heavy enough for even two people to lift.

BTW, Heart Akerson passed away recently.

He was a good man.

🌜boB🌛


On 9/9/2023 10:13 AM, William Miller via RE-wrenches wrote:


Friends:

I had an experience with a more modern inverter system creating 
harmonic distortion on the output waveform during generator run.  That 
issue was documented here 
<https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/25_GFI%20Tripping/GFI_Tripping.html>.  
The inverter system is Outback Radian.


A few weeks ago I received a call from an individual that was 
researching a similar problem.  He called me to tell me he had 
resolved his harmonic distortion problem by installing a 20 microfarad 
capacitor in the circuit that was having problems.


I have read here about adding a capacitor to solve distortion 
problems. The same client is still having problems running a modern 
oven.  I ordered a 20 microfarad, non-polarized capacitor rated at 440 
VAC.  I will let you know if this provides any resolution.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *Ray via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Friday, September 8, 2023 10:12 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Cc:* Ray
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put 
out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly 
compared to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later 
inverters (Outback, Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, 
which translates to less trouble.


Trace SW waveform

I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a 
capacitor to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety 
stand point, but it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the 
possible dangers?  Cap blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be 
in a metal enclosure.


I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. 
At 22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET
or two. They do not last forever! Good Luck

  


*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*

*"we go where powerlines don't"*

*<http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/
<https://offgridsolar1.com/><http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*

*e-mail offgridso...@sti.net*

*text 209 813 0060*

On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:

New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer
 wrote:

I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a
sine wave.  You have to know the power.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Hi folks:

I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us
in 2001.  It's been working  great for him all this
time, but the dilemma is he's gotten a new Hotpoint
washing machine, and its electronics don't like the
old inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner
or 'line tamer' available that will work for this
appliance's operation?  Any ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his
inverter if he doesn't need to.

Best,

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com <http://www.oasismontana.com/>

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:

http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-09 Thread William Miller via RE-wrenches
Friends:



I had an experience with a more modern inverter system creating harmonic
distortion on the output waveform during generator run.  That issue was
documented here
<https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/25_GFI%20Tripping/GFI_Tripping.html>.
The inverter system is Outback Radian.



A few weeks ago I received a call from an individual that was researching a
similar problem.  He called me to tell me he had resolved his harmonic
distortion problem by installing a 20 microfarad capacitor in the circuit
that was having problems.



I have read here about adding a capacitor to solve distortion problems. The
same client is still having problems running a modern oven.  I ordered a 20
microfarad, non-polarized capacitor rated at 440 VAC.  I will let you know
if this provides any resolution.



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Ray via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Friday, September 8, 2023 10:12 PM
*To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
*Cc:* Ray
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter



That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put
out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly compared
to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later inverters (Outback,
Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, which translates to less
trouble.

Trace SW waveform



I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a capacitor
to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety stand point, but
it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the possible dangers?  Cap
blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be in a metal enclosure.

I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. At
22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

303 505-8760

On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:

I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or two.
They do not last forever! Good Luck



*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*

*"we go where powerlines don't"*

*   <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>https://offgridsolar1.com/
<https://offgridsolar1.com/>  <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*

*e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net *

*text 209 813 0060*



On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:

New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.



On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You have
to know the power.



On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Hi folks:



I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's been
working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's gotten a new
Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like the old inverter.
Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer' available that will
work for this appliance's operation?  Any ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his inverter if he doesn't need
to.



Best,



Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___

List sponsored by Redwood Alliance



Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org



List Ad

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-09 Thread Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches
It was pointed out that I meant Ferro-resonant transformer.  The
transformer has a coil and a capacitor tuned to 60 hrzs.   Sorry if I
confused wrenches.

On Sat, Sep 9, 2023 at 11:35 AM Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I must agree with Ray, that inverter was never intended to run the slew of
> electronics we have now. There are gadgets out on the market that may do
> what you want but the reliability is in question. Does this site have a
> genny? Using the  that may get you past the issue but not solving the
> problem. Upgrading the inverter would be my answer too. Good luck on
> presenting this to your customer.
> Not so fun times
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 10:12 PM Ray via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put
>> out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly compared
>> to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later inverters (Outback,
>> Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, which translates to less
>> trouble.
>>
>> Trace SW waveform
>>
>>
>> I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a
>> capacitor to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety stand
>> point, but it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the possible
>> dangers?  Cap blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be in a metal
>> enclosure.
>>
>> I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. At
>> 22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> 303 505-8760
>>
>> On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or two.
>> They do not last forever! Good Luck
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> "we go where powerlines don't"
>>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>>   
>> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
>> text 209 813 0060*
>>
>>
>> On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>>
>> I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You
>> have to know the power.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hi folks:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's
>> been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's
>> gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like the
>> old inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer'
>> available that will work for this appliance's operation?  Any ideas
>> would be greatly appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his
>> inverter if he doesn't need to.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Daum
>>
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>>
>> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>>
>> 406-777-4309 fax
>>
>> www.oasismontana.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & 
>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
>> other:http

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-09 Thread Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches
I must agree with Ray, that inverter was never intended to run the slew of
electronics we have now. There are gadgets out on the market that may do
what you want but the reliability is in question. Does this site have a
genny? Using the  that may get you past the issue but not solving the
problem. Upgrading the inverter would be my answer too. Good luck on
presenting this to your customer.
Not so fun times

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 10:12 PM Ray via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put
> out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly compared
> to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later inverters (Outback,
> Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, which translates to less
> trouble.
>
> Trace SW waveform
>
>
> I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a
> capacitor to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety stand
> point, but it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the possible
> dangers?  Cap blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be in a metal
> enclosure.
>
> I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. At
> 22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> 303 505-8760
>
> On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or two.
> They do not last forever! Good Luck
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
>https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
>   
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
>
> On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>
> I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You
> have to know the power.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Hi folks:
>
>
>
> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's
> been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's gotten
> a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like the old
> inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer'
> available that will work for this appliance's operation?  Any ideas would
> be greatly appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his inverter if he
> doesn't need to.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Chris Daum
>
> Oasis Montana Inc.
>
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>
> 406-777-4309 fax
>
> www.oasismontana.com
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & 
> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
> other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.or

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Ray via RE-wrenches
That's about what to expect from the Psuedo Sine Wave that the SWs put 
out.  They shortened the list of problem appliances significantly 
compared to "mod sine", but its a stepped pyramid wave.  Later inverters 
(Outback, Magnum) were step waves too, but just more steps, which 
translates to less trouble.


Trace SW waveform


I have cured the "washer not running on the SW" once, by adding a 
capacitor to the circuit.  I can't recommend it 100% from a safety stand 
point, but it worked for us. Some body else chime in on the possible 
dangers?  Cap blowing, fires, shorts?  Definitely needs to be in a metal 
enclosure.


I think its either get a different washer or get a different inverter. 
At 22+ years, its slowly reaching the time to retire those old SWs.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 9/8/23 2:53 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches wrote:
I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or 
two. They do not last forever! Good Luck
  
*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar "we go where powerlines don't" 
https://offgridsolar1.com/ 
 
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net text 209 813 0060*



On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:


New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine
wave.  You have to know the power.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches
 wrote:

Hi folks:

I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in
2001.It's been workinggreat for him all this time, but the
dilemma is he's gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and
its electronics don't like the old inverter.Is there some
sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer' available that will
work for this appliance's operation?Any ideas would be
greatly appreciated.He's rather loathe to replace his
inverter if he doesn't need to.

Best,

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com 

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't
work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.memb

Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread bob--- via RE-wrenches


Hey Wally !   This is definitely truth when adding loads improving the 
waveform of the SW.


My friend could make his 2 SW's charge his Chevy Bolt by turning his 
oven on in the kitchen.


The stray inductance along with the higher load current I think is what 
is doing this.


Time =  L/R  in seconds.

The inductance doesn't really change much but the Resistance of the load 
goes way down, from
almost NO load, and so the 'T' goes up...  Meaning that the cutoff 
frequency goes down, closer

to 60 Hz.

🌜boB🌛


On 9/8/2023 5:00 PM, Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches wrote:
One detail I recall is that the  SW’s “mayan temple” waveform improves 
as the load on the inverter. increases  Of course the battery capacity 
may suffer if an otherwise unneeded load is utilized to achieve this 
result.   If it achieves it at all. A low cost test option in any case.


Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net

On Sep 8, 2023, at 11:58 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi folks:
I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.It’s 
been workinggreat for him all this time, but the dilemma is he’s 
gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don’t like 
the old inverter.Is there some sort of power conditioner or ‘line 
tamer’ available that will work for this appliance’s operation?Any 
ideas would be greatly appreciated.He’s rather loathe to replace his 
inverter if he doesn’t need to.

Best,
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com 
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org




___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Wallace Stahle via RE-wrenches
One detail I recall is that the  SW’s “mayan temple” waveform improves as the 
load on the inverter. increases  Of course the battery capacity may suffer if 
an otherwise unneeded load is utilized to achieve this result.   If it achieves 
it at all. A low cost test option in any case.

Wallace Stahle
Future Electric Energy Co
PO Box 236
Willits, CA 95490
707-459-0474
Lic.#C10-762093
fut...@pacific.net

> On Sep 8, 2023, at 11:58 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi folks:
>  
> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It’s been 
> working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he’s gotten a new 
> Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don’t like the old inverter.  
> Is there some sort of power conditioner or ‘line tamer’ available that will 
> work for this appliance’s operation?  Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. 
>  He’s rather loathe to replace his inverter if he doesn’t need to. 
>  
> Best,
>  
> Chris Daum
> Oasis Montana Inc.
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
> 406-777-4309 fax
> www.oasismontana.com 
>  
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
> 
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
> 
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
> 
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
> 
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
> 
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
> 

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread bob--- via RE-wrenches


Chris, I just helped a friend with his  EV (Bolt) not charging from two 
stacked SW5548's...


The problem is usually those darned sharp edges created by the 3 
modified square-wave inverters in series.
I guess technology is going backwards for this kind of stuff ?  New 
electronics designers I guess  😁


The edges mess with the zero crossing position of course along with all 
the other edges that may confuse

the washing machine.

Assuming this is a single 120 VAC SW inverter, or stacked actually, try 
this...


Get a 100 foot roll of say, 10 or 12 gauge wire and strip the ends off 
for connection.
You CAN pull off the wire and wind it all into a coil but this using a 
roll makes it easy to

start with.

Disconnect L1 (hot) from the SW output and insert the coil of wire in 
between the L1 SW output

and L1 wire end.

Then connect one terminal of a capacitor from the coil/L1 wire end.
Connect the 2nd capacitor terminal to the SW5548 Neutral connector along 
with the regularly

connected Neutral wire together.

The capacitor must be a AC capacitor like a motor run cap 
(non-polarized) with a voltage rating,

usually around 300 or 305 VAC  or higher V.

That capacitor appears in parallel with the load or washing machine in 
this case.


If you can't find 100 uF (microfarad) cap, then something lower might 
work like, 10 uF or 47 uF.


Realize that the voltage appearing across the output of this 
coil/capacitor combination will drop

slightly.  The 240 VAC version dropped about 6 to 8 VAC which was OK.

You can, if needed, use less wire or smaller capacitor microfarads to 
increase the voltage but this will

also increase the ripples.

The reason I used an air coil of wire was so that no iron/steel core 
would saturate when the current

starts.

Interested to know, if you try this if it works to help filter those 
edges and get the washing machine to work better.


🌜boB🌛

On 9/8/2023 11:58 AM, Chris Daum via RE-wrenches wrote:


Hi folks:

I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.It’s 
been workinggreat for him all this time, but the dilemma is he’s 
gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don’t like 
the old inverter.Is there some sort of power conditioner or ‘line 
tamer’ available that will work for this appliance’s operation?Any 
ideas would be greatly appreciated.He’s rather loathe to replace his 
inverter if he doesn’t need to.


Best,

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com 


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here:http://re-wrenches.org

List Address:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar via RE-wrenches


I would do a load test on the inverter. It may have a damaged FET or 
two. They do not last forever! Good Luck


Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
   [2]https://offgridsolar1.com/ [3]  [2]
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060

On 2023-09-08 12:30 pm, Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches wrote:


New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  
wrote:
I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You 
have to know the power.


On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Hi folks:

I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's 
been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's 
gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like 
the old inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line 
tamer' available that will work for this appliance's operation?  Any 
ideas would be greatly appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his 
inverter if he doesn't need to.


Best,

Chris Daum

Oasis Montana Inc.

406-777-4309 or 4321

406-777-4309 fax

www.oasismontana.com [1]

___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org


___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try 
the other:

https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Links:
--
[1] http://www.oasismontana.com/
[2] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[3] https://offgridsolar1.com/___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches
New washing machines are small loads 400 Watts about.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 2:27 PM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

> I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You
> have to know the power.
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Hi folks:
>>
>>
>>
>> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It’s
>> been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he’s
>> gotten a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don’t like the
>> old inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or ‘line tamer’
>> available that will work for this appliance’s operation?  Any ideas
>> would be greatly appreciated.  He’s rather loathe to replace his
>> inverter if he doesn’t need to.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>>
>>
>> Chris Daum
>>
>> Oasis Montana Inc.
>>
>> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>>
>> 406-777-4309 fax
>>
>> www.oasismontana.com
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



Re: [RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Darryl Thayer via RE-wrenches
I once used a ferro-resonant transformer to clean up a sine wave.  You have
to know the power.

On Fri, Sep 8, 2023, 1:59 PM Chris Daum via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Hi folks:
>
>
>
> I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It’s
> been working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he’s gotten
> a new Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don’t like the old
> inverter.  Is there some sort of power conditioner or ‘line tamer’
> available that will work for this appliance’s operation?  Any ideas would
> be greatly appreciated.  He’s rather loathe to replace his inverter if he
> doesn’t need to.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
>
>
> Chris Daum
>
> Oasis Montana Inc.
>
> 406-777-4309 or 4321
>
> 406-777-4309 fax
>
> www.oasismontana.com
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org



[RE-wrenches] Power conditioner for Trace inverter

2023-09-08 Thread Chris Daum via RE-wrenches
Hi folks:
 
I have a fellow with a Trace SW5548, purchased from us in 2001.  It's been
working  great for him all this time, but the dilemma is he's gotten a new
Hotpoint washing machine, and its electronics don't like the old inverter.
Is there some sort of power conditioner or 'line tamer' available that will
work for this appliance's operation?  Any ideas would be greatly
appreciated.  He's rather loathe to replace his inverter if he doesn't need
to.  
 
Best,
 
Chris Daum
Oasis Montana Inc.
406-777-4309 or 4321
406-777-4309 fax
www.oasismontana.com   
 
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org