Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Lou Russo]

Jay,

The batteries are Blue Ion 2.0 from Blue Planet Energy, the 8kWh cabinet.
The listed Maximum Continuous Charge and Maximum Discharge Rate is 1C.

I have been able to get Midnite's Wizbang to reflect correctly for about 5
months (on a different system) but it has also started to wonder and since
the MyMidnite2 portal is down I am unable to provide more details. I was
super hopeful about the Wizbang.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322




On Sat, Aug 18, 2018 at 6:27 AM Jay  wrote:

> Hi Lou,
>
> Can you tell us which LFP batteries?
> And what rates of discharge/charge?
>
> Thx
> Jay
> Peltz power.
>
> On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on
> the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I
> have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge
> (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly
> different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the
> FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am
> assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
> difference would be acceptable.
>
> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Lou Russo
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
> CT-34322
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I think if the user wants to find the answer, he is going to have to
hire someone who can read the CANBUS data out of the LG. 

It is very
accurate from what I have seen for 2 years now in testing for Schneider.
Here is a screen shot from a Raspberry monitoring the LG RESU and supplying
the keep alive signal the LG needs. 
Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go
where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ [1]
e-mail
offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018 12:57:38
-0700, Jay  wrote:Interesting thread as I was just in contact with
someone with a LGchem coupled to a solar edge inverter.  He's seeing at
times 20-25% less capacity than rated kWh and pretty much never actual
capacity. Tech support gives some wishy washy answers as to why this would
be. Where is the difference, is it in the communication between units or
the BMS? And funny as he's never seeing more capacity.Maybe there are
some inaccuracies in the BMS's?Standard OB, trimetric and midnight wiz
bang meters all require frequent meeting of charge parameters ( volt/amps)
to keep the devices accurate. I've got 4 meters that I compare and if they
are full daily it's about 1-2% difference between them. If it's been 7-10
days since full, then they could be off by 10-15%+ off.Curious what
others are seeing   Jay   Peltz power.  
On Aug 18, 2018, at 9:40
AM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

   Lou Sounds like you are having the same issue
we did, l adjusted the size of the battery down to 50% of the battery
rating and so far the values appear to follow in. We will also be
installing a DC CT on the egauge to see and have a better idea of whats
going and out outside of the BMU Jerry  
  On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:09 PM
Lou Russo  wrote:   

Hello All, 

Does anybody have any insight in getting
the SOC to report accurately on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that
have a minimal voltage curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries
that have both a eGauge (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a
FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a typical 24 hour period
(12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery
BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I
would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable. 

Any help or thoughts
on this subject would be greatly appreciated.  
   Aloha,   Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com [5] 808 345 6762 Spree Solar Systems LLC 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Starlight Solar Power Systems]

Hi Lou,

On some of the Li battery brands that we sell, if the shunt current is +/- 1 
Amp from zero, the current is not counted. On larger systems I have seen +/-2 
Amps not counted. If the system spends much time there, counting error can 
accumulate. A battery can shut down on LV while the SoC meter still shows a 
high percentage. We have seen this several time from customers that don’t want 
to fully charge thinking they will make the Li battery last longer (damn 
internet blog myths). The solution is to fully charge regularly where the SoC 
counter is automatically reset when full charge parameters are met. 

If you can force the FNDC SoC to reset each time you full charge, it may 
provide better accuracy between your two counters. We often use Magnum Energy 
ME-BMK and it is always very close to the Li battery SoC because they both 
reset at full charge. 

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems






On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:

Hello All,

Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the 
Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have 
several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating 
directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a 
typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% 
of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are 
reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable.

Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.  

Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com 
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC 
CT-34322

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Jay]

Interesting thread as I was just in contact with someone with a LGchem coupled 
to a solar edge inverter. 
He’s seeing at times 20-25% less capacity than rated kWh and pretty much never 
actual capacity. Tech support gives some wishy washy answers as to why this 
would be. Where is the difference, is it in the communication between units or 
the BMS?  And funny as he’s never seeing more capacity. 

Maybe there are some inaccuracies in the BMS’s? 

Standard OB, trimetric and midnight wiz bang meters all require frequent 
meeting of charge parameters ( volt/amps) to keep the devices accurate.  I’ve 
got 4 meters that I compare and if they are full daily it’s about 1-2% 
difference between them. If it’s been 7-10 days since full, then they could be 
off by 10-15%+ off. 

Curious what others are seeing

Jay

Peltz power. 





> On Aug 18, 2018, at 9:40 AM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
> 
> Lou
> Sounds like you are having the same issue we did, l adjusted the size of the 
> battery down to 50% of the battery rating and so far the values appear to 
> follow in. We will also be installing a DC  CT on the egauge to see and have 
> a better idea of whats going and out outside of the BMU
> Jerry
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:09 PM Lou Russo  wrote:
>> Hello All,
>> 
>> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the 
>> Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have 
>> several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating 
>> directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. 
>> In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% 
>> to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs 
>> are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be 
>> acceptable.
>> 
>> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.  
>> 
>> Aloha,
>> 
>> Lou Russo
>> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
>> 808 345 6762
>> Spree Solar Systems LLC 
>> CT-34322
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Ray]

My experience has bee that all SOC meters can drift off over time.  Best 
I can figure is that they don't reset at full, or do reset when the 
battery is not fully charged.  This coupled with an inability to account 
for temperature variation and differences in discharge rates, can also 
contribute to inaccuracy.  Thus, my solution has been to not depend on 
auto starting the generator. The smartest control is the user 
themselves, who can look at the weather, look at their usage, time of 
day, SG of the batteries, voltage, etc. and better decide when to start 
the generator. Their batteries and generator last longer, and they spend 
$1000s less in propane over the life of the system.


For folks that insist on auto start, they better get ready for big fuel 
bills, generator replacement, and an overall less reliable system, since 
their is not human management of the system.  A seasoned off grid 
customer is always smarter than any auto start system.  That being said, 
the advent of batteries with their own BMS systems that can communicate 
with the rest of the system may make auto start a more viable and less 
costly option in the future


Ray Walters
Remote Solar
303 505-8760

On 8/18/18 7:24 AM, Tump wrote:
Yep its is terrible! Spoke w/ a former member of their (OB)’s tech 
support and was told that the counting of amp hours both up & down 
drifts so you have to recalibrate monthly.
This IS something OB is aware of and has no interest in addressing. 
Thoughts…. remove and when you find a device that I am able to install 
and get accurate info on multiple shunts to trigger gen start let me 
know.T
On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Lou Russo > wrote:


Hello All,

Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately 
on the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage 
curve? I have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a 
eGauge (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I 
get wildly different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I 
get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are 
reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I 
would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable.


Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com 
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322

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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Jerry Shafer]

Lou
Sounds like you are having the same issue we did, l adjusted the size of
the battery down to 50% of the battery rating and so far the values appear
to follow in. We will also be installing a DC  CT on the egauge to see and
have a better idea of whats going and out outside of the BMU
Jerry

On Fri, Aug 17, 2018, 12:09 PM Lou Russo  wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on
> the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I
> have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge
> (communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly
> different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the
> FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am
> assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
> difference would be acceptable.
>
> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Aloha,
>
> Lou Russo
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC
> CT-34322
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Jay]

Hi Lou,

Can you tell us which LFP batteries?  
And what rates of discharge/charge?

Thx
Jay
Peltz power. 

> On Aug 17, 2018, at 12:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the 
> Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have 
> several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating 
> directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In 
> a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 
> 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are 
> reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable.
> 
> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.  
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> Lou Russo
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC 
> CT-34322
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

Just another reason that Soc needs to originate from the BMS in an OEM
battery system. It needs to get into the Schneider and Outback web portals
for monitoring. Is there anyone building an Offgrid battery besides
Discover AES that does this? I don't think so. 

On Sat, 18 Aug 2018
09:24:09 -0400, Tump  wrote: Yep its is terrible! Spoke w/ a former member
of their (OB)'s tech support and was told that the counting of amp hours
both up  border-left:#1010ff 2px solid; margin-left:5px; width:100%"> On
Aug 17, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote: 
   Hello All, 
 Does anybody
have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the Outback
FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have several
systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating directly
with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In a
typical 24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to
34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are
reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable.

 Any help or thoughts on this subject would be greatly appreciated.  

 Aloha,   Lou Russo l...@spreesolarsystems.com [2] 808 345 6762 Spree Solar
Systems LLC  CT-34322  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Tump]

Yep its is terrible! Spoke w/ a former member of their (OB)’s tech support and 
was told that the counting of amp hours both up & down drifts so you have to 
recalibrate monthly.
This IS something OB is aware of and has no interest in addressing. Thoughts…. 
remove and when you find a device that I am able to install and get accurate 
info on multiple shunts to trigger gen start let me know.T  
> On Aug 17, 2018, at 3:09 PM, Lou Russo  wrote:
> 
> Hello All,
> 
> Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on the 
> Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I have 
> several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge (communicating 
> directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly different SOCs. In 
> a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the FNDC that vary 2% to 
> 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am assuming that the BMUs are 
> reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5% difference would be acceptable.
> 
> Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.  
> 
> Aloha,
> 
> Lou Russo
> l...@spreesolarsystems.com 
> 808 345 6762
> Spree Solar Systems LLC 
> CT-34322
> 
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[RE-wrenches] SOC, FNDC, and LFP batteries

[Lou Russo]

Hello All,

Does anybody have any insight in getting the SOC to report accurately on
the Outback FNDC when using batteries that have a minimal voltage curve? I
have several systems with LFP batteries that have both a eGauge
(communicating directly with the battery BMU) and a FNDC and I get wildly
different SOCs. In a typical  24 hour period (12am-12am) I get SOCs on the
FNDC that vary 2% to 34% of what the battery BMUs are reporting. I am
assuming that the BMUs are reporting accurately. I would think a 1%-5%
difference would be acceptable.

Any help or thoughts on this subject  would be greatly appreciated.

Aloha,

Lou Russo
l...@spreesolarsystems.com
808 345 6762
Spree Solar Systems LLC
CT-34322
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