Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Darryl Thayer]

WINDY Dancoff taught me pressure times flow was power, pressure times
volume was energy,

On Oct 29, 2017 10:47 AM, "Dana"  wrote:

> That’s where I was confused the septic designer said only 10% more. It's
> not just flow it is this ridiculous excess pressure they require
>
> 
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Darryl Thayer
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 7:40 AM
> To: newrewrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
>
> But the question you asked as to which uses more energy, i expect they use
> tbe same or close to the same, the 1/2 hp runs 2x longer.
>
> On Oct 29, 2017 6:24 AM, "Chris Mason" 
> wrote:
>
> If you can get the Class rating of the motor, it will tell you a lot about
> the start current requirements of the pump.
>
> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer 
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector
> > (grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I
> > do
> not
> > know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX
> > 3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.
> It
> > has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running
> > since
> > 2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank
> > operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the
> peak
> > seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting
> > less than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well
> > pump is not
> a
> > dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP
> > pump that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX
> 3548.
> > The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.
> >
> > On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> > offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
> >
> > > I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem
> > > if
> it
> > > does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just
> > > the surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a
> > > reason these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor
> > > that bangs
> the
> > > inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like
> > these
> > > is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4
> > > HP Grundfos home water pump.
> > >
> > > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> > > "we go where powerlines don't"
> > > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> > > e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> > > text 209 813 0060
> > >
> > >
> > > > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> > > > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be
> > > > showing
> > as a
> > > > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1
> > > > HP
> > pump
> > > > was a major no-no back when.
> > > > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a
> time
> > > > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank.
> > > > I
> > will
> > > > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from
> > > > the
> > > septic
> > > > controller and conduit is in the ground.
> > > > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in
> > > > a
> n-s
> > > > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day,
> that
> > > so
> > > > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days
> > > > a
> > week
> > > > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
> > > >
> > > > ----------------
> > > 
> > > > Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Dana]

That’s where I was confused the septic designer said only 10% more. It's not 
just flow it is this ridiculous excess pressure they require


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Darryl Thayer
Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2017 7:40 AM
To: newrewrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

But the question you asked as to which uses more energy, i expect they use tbe 
same or close to the same, the 1/2 hp runs 2x longer.

On Oct 29, 2017 6:24 AM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:

If you can get the Class rating of the motor, it will tell you a lot about the 
start current requirements of the pump.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer 
wrote:

> Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector 
> (grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I 
> do
not
> know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX 
> 3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.
It
> has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running 
> since
> 2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank 
> operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the
peak
> seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting 
> less than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well 
> pump is not
a
> dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP 
> pump that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX 3548.
> The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar < 
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
> > I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem 
> > if
it
> > does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just 
> > the surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a 
> > reason these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor 
> > that bangs
the
> > inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like
> these
> > is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 
> > HP Grundfos home water pump.
> >
> > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> > "we go where powerlines don't"
> > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> > e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> > text 209 813 0060
> >
> >
> > > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> > > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be 
> > > showing
> as a
> > > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 
> > > HP
> pump
> > > was a major no-no back when.
> > > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a
time
> > > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. 
> > > I
> will
> > > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from 
> > > the
> > septic
> > > controller and conduit is in the ground.
> > > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in 
> > > a
n-s
> > > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day,
that
> > so
> > > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days 
> > > a
> week
> > > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > > Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> > > 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> > > NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
> > > ï   Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: RE-wrenches 
> > > [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Chris Mason
> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
> &

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

My comment was blinking a "dimmed LED" the benchmark for testing this.
Most lighting does very well when it has the full 120vac on it.
The blink is pretty fast and does not always happen in my Outback and
Schneider users (which is weird to me). Typically it is a refrigerator
start on a 50% or less dimmed light circuit. Many people do not notice it
but the ones that do let me know!

Easily cured with an inverter based refrigerator or the fantastic
Panasonic inverter based microwave oven at Costco for a BOU. The BOU is
the same as BMU and they are the units of monetary value of $100. Basic
Offgrid Unit and Basic Marine Unit:)

I agree that the energy is about the same on the different pumps.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


Dave Darryl ThayerDave
> But the question you asked as to which uses more energy, i expect they use
> tbe same or close to the same, the 1/2 hp runs 2x longer.
>
> On Oct 29, 2017 6:24 AM, "Chris Mason" 
> wrote:
>
> If you can get the Class rating of the motor, it will tell you a lot about
> the start current requirements of the pump.
>
> On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector
>> (grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I do
> not
>> know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX
>> 3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.
> It
>> has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running
>> since
>> 2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank
>> operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the
> peak
>> seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting less
>> than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well pump is
>> not
> a
>> dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP pump
>> that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX
>> 3548.
>> The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.
>>
>> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
>> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>>
>> > I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem if
> it
>> > does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just
>> the
>> > surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a
>> reason
>> > these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor that bangs
> the
>> > inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like
>> these
>> > is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 HP
>> > Grundfos home water pump.
>> >
>> > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
>> > "we go where powerlines don't"
>> > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
>> > e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
>> > text 209 813 0060
>> >
>> >
>> > > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
>> > > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing
>> as a
>> > > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP
>> pump
>> > > was a major no-no back when.
>> > > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a
> time
>> > > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I
>> will
>> > > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the
>> > septic
>> > > controller and conduit is in the ground.
>> > > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a
> n-s
>> > > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day,
> that
>> > so
>> > > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a
>> week
>> > > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
>> > >
>> > > 
>> > 
>> > > Dana Orzel               Great Solar Works, Inc.
>> > > 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>> > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>> > > NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>> > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>> > > ï   Please consider the environment before

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Darryl Thayer]

But the question you asked as to which uses more energy, i expect they use
tbe same or close to the same, the 1/2 hp runs 2x longer.

On Oct 29, 2017 6:24 AM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:

If you can get the Class rating of the motor, it will tell you a lot about
the start current requirements of the pump.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer 
wrote:

> Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector
> (grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I do
not
> know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX
> 3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.
It
> has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running since
> 2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank
> operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the
peak
> seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting less
> than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well pump is not
a
> dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP pump
> that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX 3548.
> The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
> > I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem if
it
> > does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just the
> > surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a reason
> > these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor that bangs
the
> > inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like
> these
> > is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 HP
> > Grundfos home water pump.
> >
> > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> > "we go where powerlines don't"
> > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> > e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> > text 209 813 0060
> >
> >
> > > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> > > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing
> as a
> > > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP
> pump
> > > was a major no-no back when.
> > > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a
time
> > > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I
> will
> > > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the
> > septic
> > > controller and conduit is in the ground.
> > > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a
n-s
> > > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day,
that
> > so
> > > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a
> week
> > > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > > Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> > > 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> > > NABCEP # 051112-136       www.solarwork.biz
> > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
> > > ï   Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Chris Mason
> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
> > > To: RE-wrenches 
> > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
> > >
> > > What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW
> > > Radian and it's very robust. We have load management relay system to
> > > handle the dryer, it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge.
> > > Since your lift station has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every
> > > minute of the day, you can control it so it works only during a SOC
> range
> > > or Time of Day range. You can also turn off other loads so there is
> > enough
> > > power. If you run the lift pump during the night, there is less chance
> of
> > > a convection oven running at that time. Or mid morning when everyone
is
> > at
> > > work. Having time control or SOC control is very handy.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 a

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Chris Mason]

If you can get the Class rating of the motor, it will tell you a lot about
the start current requirements of the pump.

On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 4:29 AM, Darryl Thayer 
wrote:

> Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector
> (grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I do not
> know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX
> 3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.  It
> has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running since
> 2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank
> operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the peak
> seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting less
> than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well pump is not a
> dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP pump
> that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX 3548.
> The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.
>
> On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
> > I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem if it
> > does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just the
> > surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a reason
> > these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor that bangs the
> > inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like
> these
> > is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 HP
> > Grundfos home water pump.
> >
> > Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> > "we go where powerlines don't"
> > http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> > e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> > text 209 813 0060
> >
> >
> > > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> > > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing
> as a
> > > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP
> pump
> > > was a major no-no back when.
> > > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a time
> > > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I
> will
> > > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the
> > septic
> > > controller and conduit is in the ground.
> > > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a n-s
> > > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day, that
> > so
> > > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a
> week
> > > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
> > >
> > > 
> > 
> > > Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> > > 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> > > Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> > > NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> > > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
> > > ï   Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Chris Mason
> > > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
> > > To: RE-wrenches 
> > > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
> > >
> > > What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW
> > > Radian and it's very robust. We have load management relay system to
> > > handle the dryer, it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge.
> > > Since your lift station has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every
> > > minute of the day, you can control it so it works only during a SOC
> range
> > > or Time of Day range. You can also turn off other loads so there is
> > enough
> > > power. If you run the lift pump during the night, there is less chance
> of
> > > a convection oven running at that time. Or mid morning when everyone is
> > at
> > > work. Having time control or SOC control is very handy.
> > >
> > > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Dana  wrote:
> > >
> > >> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> If I ha

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Darryl Thayer]

Hi, Dana, I know you have a different situation using a sewage ejector
(grinder pump) but I have a customer that has a 1/2 HP well pump.  I do not
know the drawdown, I think it is 60 feet.  It runs from an Outback VFX
3648, and a 4000 Watt autotransformer standard across the line starter.  It
has never failed to start.  Nor does it "blink the lights", (running since
2004?) It runs at 350 to 400 watts into a 20-gallon diaphragm tank
operating from 40 to 60 PSI.  Using Egauge on the 10 Minute scale, the peak
seems to be about 3x the running load or 1200 to1500 Watts lasting less
than 1 second.  In providing a family of two adults, the well pump is not a
dominating load.  On the other hand, I had a customer with a 1.5 HP pump
that I could not reliably start on a similar setup with a single FX 3548.
The Radian is, of course, a much bigger animal.

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 3:45 PM, Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem if it
> does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just the
> surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a reason
> these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor that bangs the
> inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like these
> is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 HP
> Grundfos home water pump.
>
> Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
> text 209 813 0060
>
>
> > Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> > I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing as a
> > demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP pump
> > was a major no-no back when.
> > *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a time
> > clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I will
> > look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the
> septic
> > controller and conduit is in the ground.
> > We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a n-s
> > canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day, that
> so
> > far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a week
> > has never dropped at night more than 5%.
> >
> > 
> 
> > Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> > 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> > Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> > NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> > "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
> > ï   Please consider the environment before printing this email.
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> > Behalf Of Chris Mason
> > Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
> > To: RE-wrenches 
> > Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
> >
> > What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW
> > Radian and it's very robust. We have load management relay system to
> > handle the dryer, it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge.
> > Since your lift station has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every
> > minute of the day, you can control it so it works only during a SOC range
> > or Time of Day range. You can also turn off other loads so there is
> enough
> > power. If you run the lift pump during the night, there is less chance of
> > a convection oven running at that time. Or mid morning when everyone is
> at
> > work. Having time control or SOC control is very handy.
> >
> > On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Dana  wrote:
> >
> >> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to
> >> meet all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½
> >> HP/240 vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10%
> >> more time to dose 800 gallons.
> >>
> >> Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.
> >>
> >> From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump
> >> limiting the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move,
> >> but; Which pump will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to
> >> utilize both in

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

I am with Windy! Having 1/2 HP and up anywhere offgrid is a problem if it
does not soft start. It will cause dimmed LED's to flicker and just the
surges that really are avoidable. Use soft start! There is not a reason
these days to prove that a Radian or XW will start a motor that bangs the
inverter to start. The only case I make for large old pump tech like these
is if it is for a fire suppression pump, in addition to a nice 3/4 HP
Grundfos home water pump.

Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net
text 209 813 0060


> Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
> I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing as a
> demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP pump
> was a major no-no back when.
> *Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a time
> clock turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I will
> look at the SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the septic
> controller and conduit is in the ground.
> We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a n-s
> canyon that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day, that so
> far even running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a week
> has never dropped at night more than 5%.
>
> 
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>  Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On
> Behalf Of Chris Mason
> Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
> To: RE-wrenches 
> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
>
> What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW
> Radian and it's very robust. We have load management relay system to
> handle the dryer, it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge.
> Since your lift station has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every
> minute of the day, you can control it so it works only during a SOC range
> or Time of Day range. You can also turn off other loads so there is enough
> power. If you run the lift pump during the night, there is less chance of
> a convection oven running at that time. Or mid morning when everyone is at
> work. Having time control or SOC control is very handy.
>
> On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Dana  wrote:
>
>> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
>>
>>
>>
>> If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to
>> meet all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½
>> HP/240 vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10%
>> more time to dose 800 gallons.
>>
>> Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.
>>
>> From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump
>> limiting the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move,
>> but; Which pump will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to
>> utilize both inverters and drop the load on either half of the Radian
>> inverter.
>>
>> Is there a smarter lift pump to use? ECM motor? Permanent magnet?
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> 
>>
>> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>>
>> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>>
>> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>>
>> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>>
>> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>>
>> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
>> org/maillist.html
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out

Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Dana]

Really good to hear & thanks Chris.
I just installed this system at our new home that we will be showing as a 
demonstration home. I come from the late '80s days of PV and a 1 HP pump was a 
major no-no back when.
*Windy passed along a soft start suggestion & I was going to put a time clock 
turning on from 10AM-2PM every day to utilize a fuller bank. I will look at the 
SOC option on the Radian, but it is 200+' away from the septic controller and 
conduit is in the ground.
We have a HUP 2500 AHR/48-volt bank & 6,400 watt of PV tracked in a n-s canyon 
that limits the PV collection to 5 hours on a December day, that so far even 
running a 3/4 HP air compressor all day/every day-7 days a week has never 
dropped at night more than 5%.


Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 
208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  
 Please consider the environment before printing this email.


-Original Message-
From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf 
Of Chris Mason
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2017 5:51 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW Radian and 
it's very robust. We have load management relay system to handle the dryer, 
it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge. Since your lift station 
has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every minute of the day, you can 
control it so it works only during a SOC range or Time of Day range. You can 
also turn off other loads so there is enough power. If you run the lift pump 
during the night, there is less chance of a convection oven running at that 
time. Or mid morning when everyone is at work. Having time control or SOC 
control is very handy.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Dana  wrote:

> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
>
>
>
> If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to 
> meet all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½ 
> HP/240 vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10% 
> more time to dose 800 gallons.
>
> Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.
>
> From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump 
> limiting the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move, 
> but; Which pump will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to 
> utilize both inverters and drop the load on either half of the Radian 
> inverter.
>
> Is there a smarter lift pump to use? ECM motor? Permanent magnet?
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


--
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com <http://www.cometenergysystems.com>
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Chris Mason]

What's the problem with the 1H pump you anticipate? We live on a 8KW Radian
and it's very robust. We have load management relay system to handle the
dryer, it's only allowed to work above 95% state of charge. Since your lift
station has range, i.e., it doesn't have to work every minute of the day,
you can control it so it works only during a SOC range or Time of Day
range. You can also turn off other loads so there is enough power. If you
run the lift pump during the night, there is less chance of a convection
oven running at that time. Or mid morning when everyone is at work. Having
time control or SOC control is very handy.

On Wed, Oct 25, 2017 at 9:37 PM, Dana  wrote:

> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
>
>
>
> If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to meet
> all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½ HP/240
> vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10% more time to
> dose 800 gallons.
>
> Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.
>
> From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump limiting
> the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move, but; Which pump
> will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to utilize both
> inverters
> and drop the load on either half of the Radian inverter.
>
> Is there a smarter lift pump to use? ECM motor? Permanent magnet?
>
>
>
> 
> 
>
> Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc.
>
> 208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com
>
> Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374
>
> NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz
>
> "Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"
>
> P Please consider the environment before printing this email.
>
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.
> org/maillist.html
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>


-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Windy Dankoff]

Dana — Frank Lewon, BZ Products, wrote a reply to me, and said:

You may want to consider using a soft starter on the pump. Having worked for 
the local sewer company many moons ago. This was the standard configuration. 
It's easier operation on the entire system.

Just a idea.
Frank.

via Windy
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Windy Dankoff]

Hi Dana!

A septic pump is a special breed, a Godzilla-like creature evolved for sucking 
muck. Not something I would want to consider changing a motor on … known as, if 
I may extend the horror theme, Frankenpumping.

To reduce peak load, or overload potential, I would consider a load-delay relay 
(or whatever you would call it) that switches some other major load OFF when 
the pump comes ON. The major load being something that won’t be noticed if it 
stops for the minutes of time that the septic pump runs.

I hope that’s helpful. // Windy … since Bozo was in B&W



> On Oct 26, 2017, at 5:42 AM, re-wrenches-requ...@lists.re-wrenches.org wrote:
> 
> From: "Dana" mailto:d...@solarwork.com>>
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps
> Date: October 25, 2017 at 7:37:41 PM MDT
> To: "'RE-wrenches'"  <mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>>
> 
> 
> Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:
> 
> 
> 
> If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to meet
> all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½ HP/240
> vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10% more time to
> dose 800 gallons.
> 
> Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.
> 
>> From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump limiting
> the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move, but; Which pump
> will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to utilize both inverters
> and drop the load on either half of the Radian inverter.
> 
> Is there a smarter lift pump to use? ECM motor? Permanent magnet?

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[RE-wrenches] Wattage 1/2 HP vs 1HP septic pumps

[Dana]

Ok all you whiz kids, bozos, & bolos:

 

If I have a septic lift pump [off grid ouch] at 1HP/240 vac/8-amps to meet
all the usual state required overkill in septic design & a ½ HP/240
vac/4.9-amp pump would do the same job but it will take 10% more time to
dose 800 gallons.

Powered by an 8 KW Outback Radian inverter.

>From a load point of view and a 240-volt 3 phase wild AC well pump limiting
the overall surge and general wattage is the smartest move, but; Which pump
will use less overall power? We are using 240 volt to utilize both inverters
and drop the load on either half of the Radian inverter.

Is there a smarter lift pump to use? ECM motor? Permanent magnet?

 



Dana Orzel   Great Solar Works, Inc. 

208.721.7003   d...@solarwork.com

Idaho Contractor - # 028765  Idaho PV # 028374

NABCEP # 051112-136   www.solarwork.biz

"Responsible Technologies for Responsible People since 1988"  

P Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

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