Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-23 Thread Michael Welch
Hi gang. The spec sheet for the battery has a bar graph for a 5-hr. rate:

6,200 cycles at 10% DOD
5,700 at 20%
1,800 at 50%
600 at 80%
425 at 100%

Tom Duffy wrote at 06:13 PM 1/22/2014:
 
>Life depends on the depth of discharge. What load are you calculating? That 
>will determine the battery needed, and the depth of discharge expected. After 
>that we might guess around the variables and predict the life. I don’t want to 
>nit-pic but this calculation has to start with hard numbers.

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-22 Thread Chris Mason
This is what the customer decided on.
What kind of life do you expect?


On Tue, Jan 21, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Tom Duffy  wrote:

>  Chris
>
>
>
> Yes they seem to be a well-made good quality battery, and we have not had
> any problems in properly designed and programed systems.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Real-logo-X-195]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@thesolar.biz *
>
> *Panama Office: **507-6126-1253*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:* *888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 <575-539-2111>*
>
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> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:
> re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Chris Mason
> *Sent:* Monday, January 20, 2014 7:58 PM
>
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE
>
>
>
> So back to the question...has anyone had experience with the Outback
> 200RE?
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-21 Thread Tom Duffy
Chris

Yes they seem to be a well-made good quality battery, and we have not had any 
problems in properly designed and programed systems.

Kind regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
[Real-logo-X-195]
E-Mail: t...@thesolar.biz
Panama Office: 507-6126-1253
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Chris Mason
Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 7:58 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

So back to the question...has anyone had experience with the Outback 200RE?
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-20 Thread Chris Mason
So back to the question...has anyone had experience with the Outback 200RE?
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-20 Thread Jerry Shafer
On Jan 20, 2014 8:42 AM, "Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems" <
la...@starlightsolar.com> wrote:

> Jerry (and Chris),
>
> I can't agree that there is nothing better than FLA batteries. It depends
> on may factors. For example, many of our customers are only using their
> system seasonally. When away for up to 6 months, an AGM or GEL battery will
> be far superior unless you have a knowledgable person servicing the bank
> every month.  If your customer is not fully dedicated to understanding and
> then actually caring out all the requirements of owning a flooded bank
> (watering, equalizing, keeping a log book, testing, cleaning, …), then I
> would not suggest FLA.
>
> Chris, designing and installing battery based systems require lots of
> understanding. You will likely be the one educating your customer and
> resolving problems for many years. The single most important item to
> install in any off grid system is a battery capacity meter. Its like a fuel
> gauge so you can see what you are doing with your battery bank. Check out
> Blue Sky Energy and Bogart Engineering.
>
> Suggesting Rolls (very high quality) and Interstate (cheapest battery from
> JC) in the same sentence…well, that just made my teeth hurt.
>
> Larry
>
>
>
> On Jan 18, 2014, at 7:21 PM, Jerry Shafer 
> wrote:
>
> My mistake nothing better then FLA vented,  I would stay away from
> centurians I have had a lot of premee failures, rolls, interstate and the
> big boys Hawker can last 20 years. Also nickel  iron no not metal "iron"
> cost alot but you should never need to replace them my last set was 35k for
> 900 amps
> Jerry
> On Jan 18, 2014 4:20 PM, "Chris Mason" 
> wrote:
>
>> This is for an off-grid system.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jerry Shafer 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be interstate
>>> or rolls and amps per buck is better over time
>>> Jerry
>>> On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason" 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with
 battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering
 Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
 Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery system?

 --
 Chris Mason



>>
>
>
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> Larry
There are allot of variables some of which I did not include. Rolls is good
Interstate will also work, Hawker is even better, interstate is least
expensive and available all over so that is where that came from. If the
location is seasonal and small sealed will be OK and both need to be
maintained over the Off season. I always try to teach my customers how to
perform the service and it will usually fall somewhere between 3 and 4
months apart so if you are away for 6 months this can be an issue. Sealed
may be better if there are very low temps during the off season. Most of my
"off Grid" customers are full time and service is part of the maintenance
schedule. Education of the owner is very important as that will be there
first line of defense of survival and monitoring of the system is always
good, we use the Outback system Flex DC with the shunts, it does seam that
bogart along with Outback both need to be cleared and reset on occasion.
Sorry if I made your teeth hurt.
Jerry
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-20 Thread Larry Crutcher, Starlight Solar Power Systems
Jerry (and Chris),

I can't agree that there is nothing better than FLA batteries. It depends on 
may factors. For example, many of our customers are only using their system 
seasonally. When away for up to 6 months, an AGM or GEL battery will be far 
superior unless you have a knowledgable person servicing the bank every month.  
If your customer is not fully dedicated to understanding and then actually 
caring out all the requirements of owning a flooded bank (watering, equalizing, 
keeping a log book, testing, cleaning, …), then I would not suggest FLA. 

Chris, designing and installing battery based systems require lots of 
understanding. You will likely be the one educating your customer and resolving 
problems for many years. The single most important item to install in any off 
grid system is a battery capacity meter. Its like a fuel gauge so you can see 
what you are doing with your battery bank. Check out Blue Sky Energy and Bogart 
Engineering.

Suggesting Rolls (very high quality) and Interstate (cheapest battery from JC) 
in the same sentence…well, that just made my teeth hurt. 

Larry 



On Jan 18, 2014, at 7:21 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:

My mistake nothing better then FLA vented,  I would stay away from centurians I 
have had a lot of premee failures, rolls, interstate and the big boys Hawker 
can last 20 years. Also nickel  iron no not metal "iron" cost alot but you 
should never need to replace them my last set was 35k for 900 amps
Jerry

On Jan 18, 2014 4:20 PM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:
This is for an off-grid system.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jerry Shafer  wrote:
For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be interstate or 
rolls and amps per buck is better over time
Jerry

On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:
We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with battery 
systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering Rolls Surrette 
or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the Surrettes, what is the 
experience with the outback battery system? 

-- 
Chris Mason





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-19 Thread Chris Mason
The project is hybrid, the house has utility power at the moment.
I was looking for feedback on the product, I haven't heard comments on the
Outback RE battery system.
In the end I recommended a single string of TROJAN, IND9-6V. We will revert
to grid at 80% DOD.
The house is tropical, high in the mountains and doesn't use a lot of power.





On Sun, Jan 19, 2014 at 9:22 PM, Allan Sindelar <
al...@positiveenergysolar.com> wrote:

>  Tom,
> I may be mistaken, but if I understood you correctly you have missed
> something. The Radian is available only in 48v, so four 12V 200 Ah
> batteries is eight kilowatt-hours of storage to 80% maximum DoD. Yes, it's
> small (my off grid home has 26 kW) but one or two strings may be adequate,
> depending on the customer's application and needs.
> Allan
>
>   *Allan Sindelar*
> *al...@positiveenergysolar.com* 
> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional
> NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
> New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
> Founder, *Positive Energy, Inc.*
>
> A Certified B CorporationTM
> 3209 Richards Lane
> Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
> *505 424-1112 <505%20424-1112> office 780-2738 cell*
> *www.positiveenergysolar.com* 
>
>
>   On 1/19/2014 6:12 PM, Tom Duffy wrote:
>
>  Hi Chris
>
>
>
> For an off grid system a 200AH 12 volt battery is rather small without
> resorting to parallel strings.
>
>
>
> Three strings is only 600AH which is still on the small side, so one might
> ask why the 8K inverter?
>
>
>
> The OutBack cabinet is fine for a back-up grid-tied system, not really a
> full off grid house
>
>
>
> Without starting a big discussion, I would stick to a single series string
> sized to the load for three days autonomy.
>
>
>
> 200AH is usually a rather small weekend cabin and 600AH would be a smaller
> medium sized house.
>
>
>
> Kind regards
>
>
>
> *Tom Duffy*
>
> *Senior Solar Design Engineer*
>
> [image: Real-logo-X-195]
>
> *E-Mail: **t...@thesolar.biz *
>
> *Panama Office: **507-6126-1253*
>
> *Direct Toll Free:**888-503-6772 <888-503-6772>*
>
> *International: **575-539-2111 <575-539-2111>*
>
> *SKYPE Address: **thesolarbiz*
>
> *Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large
> number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*
>
>  *Confidentiality Notice*: This message including any attachments is for
> the sole use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and
> privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or
> distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please
> contact the sender and delete any copies of this message.
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [
> mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
> *On Behalf Of *Chris Mason
> *Sent:* Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:16 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE
>
>
>
> We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with
> battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering
> Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
> Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery system?
>
>
>
> --
> Chris Mason
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-19 Thread Allan Sindelar

  
  
Tom,
  I may be mistaken, but if I understood you correctly you have
  missed something. The Radian is available only in 48v, so four 12V
  200 Ah batteries is eight kilowatt-hours of storage to 80% maximum
  DoD. Yes, it's small (my off grid home has 26 kW) but one or two
  strings may be adequate, depending on the customer's application
  and needs.
  Allan
  
  






  

  

  
  
  
Allan Sindelar
  al...@positiveenergysolar.com
  NABCEP Certified PV
Installation Professional
NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional
New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician
Founder, Positive Energy, Inc.
A
Certified B CorporationTM
3209
Richards Lane
  Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507
505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell
www.positiveenergysolar.com
 
  

  On 1/19/2014 6:12 PM, Tom Duffy wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Hi
Chris
 
For
an off grid system a 200AH 12 volt battery is rather small
without resorting to parallel strings.

 
Three
strings is only 600AH which is still on the small side, so
one might ask why the 8K inverter?

 
The
OutBack cabinet is fine for a back-up grid-tied system, not
really a full off grid house
 
Without
starting a big discussion, I would stick to a single series
string sized to the load for three days autonomy.

 
200AH
is usually a rather small weekend cabin and 600AH would be a
smaller medium sized house.
 
Kind
regards
 
Tom
  Duffy
Senior
  Solar Design Engineer

E-Mail:
t...@thesolar.biz
Panama
  Office:
507-6126-1253
Direct
  Toll Free:888-503-6772
International:
575-539-2111
SKYPE
  Address:
thesolarbiz
Although no
  trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large
  number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 Confidentiality
  Notice: This message
including any attachments is for the sole use of the
intended recipient and may contain confidential and
privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use,
disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the
intended recipient, please contact the sender and delete any
copies of this message.
 
 
From:
re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of Chris Mason
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE
 

  We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so
I am short on experience with battery systems. I have a 8KW
Radian system for which I am considering Rolls Surrette or
Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery
system? 

  
 
  
  -- 
Chris Mason
  
 
  

  
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-19 Thread Tom Duffy
Hi Chris

For an off grid system a 200AH 12 volt battery is rather small without 
resorting to parallel strings.

Three strings is only 600AH which is still on the small side, so one might ask 
why the 8K inverter?

The OutBack cabinet is fine for a back-up grid-tied system, not really a full 
off grid house

Without starting a big discussion, I would stick to a single series string 
sized to the load for three days autonomy.

200AH is usually a rather small weekend cabin and 600AH would be a smaller 
medium sized house.

Kind regards

Tom Duffy
Senior Solar Design Engineer
[Real-logo-X-195]
E-Mail: t...@thesolar.biz
Panama Office: 507-6126-1253
Direct Toll Free: 888-503-6772
International: 575-539-2111
SKYPE Address: thesolarbiz
Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of 
electrons were terribly inconvenienced.
 Confidentiality Notice: This message including any attachments is for the sole 
use of the intended recipient and may contain confidential and privileged 
information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is 
prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender 
and delete any copies of this message.


From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Chris Mason
Sent: Saturday, January 18, 2014 6:16 PM
To: RE-wrenches
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with battery 
systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering Rolls Surrette 
or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the Surrettes, what is the 
experience with the outback battery system?

--
Chris Mason

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-18 Thread Ray Walters
Also consider the large industrial batteries such as the Trojan 
Industrial 2 v models, HUPs, IBE, etc.
They have longer cycle life, and therefore are a better deal in the long 
run.  Batteries are the weak link in off grid systems, so you want to 
really make sure you're getting the right battery, and the right size as 
well.

AGMs are great for GT, but not cost effective for larger off grid systems.
Also reread previous threads on batteries, not everyone has been happy 
with the choices you list.


R.Ray Walters
CTO, Solarray, Inc
Nabcep Certified PV Installer,
Licensed Master Electrician
Solar Design Engineer
303 505-8760

On 1/18/2014 5:20 PM, Chris Mason wrote:

This is for an off-grid system.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jerry Shafer 
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:


For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be
interstate or rolls and amps per buck is better over time
Jerry

On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason"
mailto:cometenergysyst...@gmail.com>> wrote:

We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on
experience with battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system
for which I am considering Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM
batteries. I know people like the Surrettes, what is the
experience with the outback battery system?

-- 
Chris Mason



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-18 Thread Jerry Shafer
My mistake nothing better then FLA vented,  I would stay away from
centurians I have had a lot of premee failures, rolls, interstate and the
big boys Hawker can last 20 years. Also nickel  iron no not metal "iron"
cost alot but you should never need to replace them my last set was 35k for
900 amps
Jerry
On Jan 18, 2014 4:20 PM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:

> This is for an off-grid system.
>
>
> On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
>
>> For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be interstate
>> or rolls and amps per buck is better over time
>> Jerry
>> On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason" 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with
>>> battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering
>>> Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
>>> Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery system?
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Mason
>>>
>>>
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> President, Comet Systems Ltd
> www.cometenergysystems.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-18 Thread Chris Mason
This is for an off-grid system.


On Sat, Jan 18, 2014 at 8:07 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

> For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be interstate or
> rolls and amps per buck is better over time
> Jerry
> On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason" 
> wrote:
>
>> We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with
>> battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering
>> Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
>> Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery system?
>>
>> --
>> Chris Mason
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
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>> Change email address & settings:
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-- 
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President, Comet Systems Ltd
www.cometenergysystems.com
Cell: 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Outback 200 RE

2014-01-18 Thread Jerry Shafer
For for grid tie system l I would only use AGM weather it be interstate or
rolls and amps per buck is better over time
Jerry
On Jan 18, 2014 3:16 PM, "Chris Mason"  wrote:

> We don't do a lot of off-grid systems so I am short on experience with
> battery systems. I have a 8KW Radian system for which I am considering
> Rolls Surrette or Outback 200RE AGM batteries. I know people like the
> Surrettes, what is the experience with the outback battery system?
>
> --
> Chris Mason
>
>
> ___
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>
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