[Repeater-Builder] Re: how to build a very simple repeater
Mike you forgot one important resource: http://c-cor.org/echocomm/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how to build a very simple repeater
Hi from Adam Kb2jpd You can do a real simple repeater controller using some 555/556 timing chips in monostable mode.Look at any Forest Mimms 555 cookbooks. He did quite a few decent circuits. As for the ID timer requirement, You can get any 1200 packet TNC that has morse code ID that you can program with a laptop. Some good TNCs even have a hardware/software Carrier operated Switch included. Maybe you can tell us what you want, unless you want a real challenge like a tube repeater controler ? Adam
[Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? 73 Steve N1TEC - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
A DB series antenna is the best choice if you install it correctly. They will last decades if done correctly. Paul WB5IDM _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steve Hutzley Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 7:59 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? 73 Steve N1TEC _ Check out the http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=43257/*http:/advision.webevents.yahoo.com/mailbe ta all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
During receive mode try to measure the by-passed PA DC voltage if it exists then it may cause self oscillation within the PA disconnect this DC voltage and see. Aland Nate Duehr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi guys, Built a link radio out of a MASTR II mobile a while back. 444.575 TX, 447.575 RX. It is NOT duplexed and the RX section turns off during TX, just a normal MASTR II mobile setup. The only modification done was to by-pass the PA and run the exciter output over to the Low-Pass Filter board in the PA section directly -- didn't need much power to make this link work with a 6 or 7 element yagi mounted outside, pointed at the repeater it's linking into. After having the link installed in my basement for a few days, I realized that it's throwing a fairly strong dead carrier on VHF at 145.460 or thereabouts, but ONLY when it's sitting idle in Receive. When the radio is transmitting the carrier generated by the receiver disappears. It's not strong enough to receive it further than about one house away on an HT down the street, and I don't hear it one block over, but there in the house... permanent carrier on 145.46. (Unfortunately this is the output frequency of one of our club repeaters that's over 40 miles and behind a ridge from my house, and the repeater loses completely to the carrier coming from the link radio in the basement.) I attempted to figure out the mix math to see if that would be a normal thing to see when using that particular UHF RX frequency, but I'm honestly not very good at that. I figured I'd post and see if any of the list's gurus might have an explanation of why it might be doing this. Any thoughts? I might (just to see what happens) stuff the crystals in another MASTR II, tune it up, and see if the same thing happens, but if this could be explained mathematically, that would be more interesting. Hmm, what other info might you need... ahh... thinking back, the crystals might not have been ordered with high-side injection... I'd have to look at the ICM packing sheet, and it's at home. Nate WY0X - Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
Should the same high-side injection be requested when ordering 440-450 MHz crystals for a MICOR channel element? So far, everything has tuned up very well just having ICM make new crystals according to the standard MICOR receiver formula, and I always send in the channel elements to be completely temperature compensated, etc. while I'm at it. But I've wondered if future orders should also request that they be ordered with high-side injection? LJ Original Message- From: k6jsi [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Nov 27, 2006 9:00 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Don Kupferschmidt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nate, I'm wondering if you can point me to a link that would further explain lo / hi injection. Hate to admit, but I'm not all that familiar about the subject, especially in repeater operation. TIA, Don, KD9PT (Snip) Hi Don, The normal MASTR II receiver uses a low-side Local Oscillator injection for their mixer. The IF is 11.2 MHz, so you deduct 11.2 MHz from the operating frequency. The normal operating frequency for the 88 series MASTR II radios is 450 to 470, so the LO (Local Oscillator) is engineered to run between 438.8 and 458.8 MHz (450 � 11.2 = 438.8; and 470 �11.2 = 458.8). When we in the amateur radio service order a low-side injection crystal, we are essentially asking the LO to operate between 428.8 and 438.8 MHz, worst case being 10 MHz below the engineered operating frequency range (440 �11.2 = 428.8, and 450 �11.2 = 438.8) This is stretching the original design of the local oscillator 10 MHz beyond the design parameters. If we order high-side injection crystals, we add 11.2 MHz to our operating frequency, rather than subtract it. So the LO will runs between 451.2 and 461.2 MHz (440 + 11.2 = 451.2, and 450 +11.2 = 462.2). If you are operating in an area of the country where you run low-in, high-out split repeaters, your receivers will operate between 440 and 445 MHz, and the highest possible LO frequency will be 456.2 MHz (445 + 11.2 = 456.2), or right in the sweet spot for the LO range (438.8 and 458.8). If you are operating in an area of the country where you run high- in, low-out split repeaters, and your receiver will operate between 445 and 450 MHz, and the highest possible LO frequency will be 450 + 11.2 = 462.2, or only 3.4 MHz higher than the designed frequency of the LO. The cross-over frequency seems to be 448.300 MHz, which is 1.7 MHz higher at a high-side injection than designed, and a low-side injection is 1.7 MHz lower than designed Local Oscillator. So, maybe a good rule of thumb would be to order high-side injection on operating frequencies below 448.300, and low-side injection on receive frequencies above 448.300. That way, the worst case scenario is your being either 1.7 MHz higher or lower than the original engineered design on the local oscillator. You can do the same math for high-band radios. Same IF. Hope that helps.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
At 05:59 AM 11/28/06, you wrote: Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. Where did you hear that, and what did you hear? I've heard a lot of folks talk about putting up a DB224 or a DB408 and ignoring it for 15-20 years. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? How are you at building things? Go to http://www.repeater-builder.com/antenna/ant-sys-index.html and scroll down to Omni-Directional Gain Vertical Collinear Construction Project. Read it and the three articles after it. And look at A detailed drawing of the DB-404 antennas and the similar one on the DB-420... if you change your attitude towards dipole arrays there is enough info here to build one. You may find that the harness is harder to do than the dipoles however. And before you leave the page, read the article titled Help!! I have a crackling noise in my repeater (2nd down under Antennas) 73 Steve N1TEC Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
If you call never having to touch it in the past 27 years as a maintenance nightmare then, yes, I'd avoid them. Chuck - Original Message - From: Steve Hutzley To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares.
[Repeater-Builder] 2 Baby Boys
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 7:22 PM Subject: Users Group 2 Baby Boys OK Everyone - Sorry I have not been watching the group for the last two weeks. I have been a little busy. On November 15th on of the twins decided at 4:30 AM to break his water. At around 4:30 PM Victoria and My Two sons were born. I will try to catch up on all the chatter in the group but it may take me some time. In the mean time if you are so inclined check out the fun I have been having www.wtorrens.photosite.com Please sign one or all of the guest books if you have time. Thanks, Wayne
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/27/2006 12:26 PM, you wrote: Hi guys, Built a link radio out of a MASTR II mobile a while back. 444.575 TX, 447.575 RX. It's the LO multiplier chain that you're hearing. 145.460 * 3 + 11.2 = 447.580 (447.575). After having the link installed in my basement for a few days, I realized that it's throwing a fairly strong dead carrier on VHF at 145.460 or thereabouts, but ONLY when it's sitting idle in Receive. When the radio is transmitting the carrier generated by the receiver disappears. You don't hear it when the radio is TXing because the T/R relay disconnects the receiver from the antenna. Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/28/2006 10:19 AM, you wrote: You don't hear it when the radio is TXing because the T/R relay disconnects the receiver from the antenna. Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. I forgot to mention: the reason you don't hear it on TX on an unmodified Mastr II is because the RX OSC 10V is cut off during TX, so there's no RX LO when TXing. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
Aland services wrote: During receive mode try to measure the by-passed PA DC voltage if it exists then it may cause self oscillation within the PA disconnect this DC voltage and see. Aland Already done when the PA was by-passed, but thanks for the thought. Nate WY0X
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
I forgot to mention: the reason you don't hear it on TX on an unmodified Mastr II is because the RX OSC 10V is cut off during TX, so there's no RX LO when TXing. Bob NO6B I don't have a manual in front of me, so I have to ask the question here. If the 10V to the Rx oscillator board is cut off during Tx, how could you put a 5C element in the Rx and an EC in the Tx and still have the Tx EC element be compensated by the Rx 5C while transmitting? The Rx 5C ICOM would need the 10V in order to generate the compensation voltage. Or am I forgetting something? --- Jeff
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B But that will just move the problem somewhere else...up to 152.925 where you might make even more enemies than on 145.460...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
We have a number of them in operation(DB-420 and 419) both in Fl and TN. Some up and working since 1992 with no problems. Thanks john - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 11:54 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions If you call never having to touch it in the past 27 years as a maintenance nightmare then, yes, I'd avoid them. Chuck - Original Message - From: Steve Hutzley To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/28/2006 10:49 AM, you wrote: Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B But that will just move the problem somewhere else...up to 152.925 where you might make even more enemies than on 145.460... If Nate has a neighbor that likes to listen to 152.925, then yes. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/28/2006 10:49 AM, you wrote: I forgot to mention: the reason you don't hear it on TX on an unmodified Mastr II is because the RX OSC 10V is cut off during TX, so there's no RX LO when TXing. Bob NO6B I don't have a manual in front of me, so I have to ask the question here. If the 10V to the Rx oscillator board is cut off during Tx, how could you put a 5C element in the Rx and an EC in the Tx and still have the Tx EC element be compensated by the Rx 5C while transmitting? The Rx 5C ICOM would need the 10V in order to generate the compensation voltage. Or am I forgetting something? Nothing forgotten - the ICOM still gets 10 V, just not 10 V for the oscillator. There are two separate 10 V feeds to the RX: one for the LO oscillator one for everything else. Bob
Re: RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
Not quite ... I believe he stated this radio package is being used at home - reason for the problem being discussed in the first place. The 145.45833 MHz birdie seems to be interferring with his ability to hear a 2 meter repeater output. A 152.925 MHz birdie may not cause a problem in his neighborhood. Neil - WA6KLA - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 10:49 am Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B But that will just move the problem somewhere else...up to 152.925 where you might make even more enemies than on 145.460...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
Bob Dengler wrote: At 11/28/2006 10:49 AM, you wrote: Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B But that will just move the problem somewhere else...up to 152.925 where you might make even more enemies than on 145.460... If Nate has a neighbor that likes to listen to 152.925, then yes. Bob NO6B It's reealy weak, Jeff. I'll probably move the ICOMs into a Station just to get a little more shielding first just to see if it helps, and then order crystals if that doesn't work... Guess I could just move the RX ICOM first and see how bad it is before futzing around with tuning the TX side. It probably doesn't help that the cables going to the PC aren't coming out of the case via any kind of feed-through caps, etc... bad Nate, no donut. They probably make nice antennas at VHF. :-) If it's in a Station, I can pull the audio and and signals needed off the backplane, which have already been nicely isolated from the guts of the radio with the built-in feed-through caps, etc - of course. I was just wanting to not waste a complete Station shelf on a link radio that only needs 250mW to be full-quieting or darn near close to it. And... I'll have to find a Station that was built as a Remote with the T/R relay if I feel like using one antenna... or re-jumper everything and put in an LPF board that has a T/R relay in it. (Sheesh, I'm usually ripping those OFF the LPF board if I don't have an LPF board with a Z-matcher on it to use in a PA!) Actually, come to think of it, I don't really want to waste a UHF PA deck... maybe will just split the thing to two antennas but set it up for half-duplex operation... easy enough to figure out. Just gotta dig through the system board and 10V regulator LBI's to get the right jumper config. Well... hmm. We do have a 40W UHF PA deck that's marked questionable... I could see what's wrong with it... if anything... 40W into the 6-element link yagi bore sighted on the repeater... you know, knowing my luck, I'll just light up the whole Front Range and cause myself multi-path problems... (snicker... damn Murphy!). (Not to mention making UHF unusable at my QTH overall... ha!) I seem to recall Dave Cameron VE7LTD had just mentioned he'd recently played with the remote audio card to get audio in/out for something he was working on... normally that card is tossed in the junque box around here, along with the transformer for the 4-wire audio, so I've never played with them. Maybe I'll have to pester him for his notes. I think one of the Stations I acquired recently still had all the cards in the shelf and various do-dads still in it and it was configured as a remote w/o repeat... ahh the possibilities... And I thought I was DONE building the link radio two weeks ago! :-) LOL! Thanks guys, cool discussion. Nate WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
I have taken a UHF transmitter and combined it with a VHF receiver for a crossband split. The very maximum deviation that I can obtain from the radio is about 1.5 KHz. This is with the pot turn all the way up. Mic high is being fed into a 1.0 MFD cap through a 15K resistor to the high side of the volume control. The audio is clear, just not all that loud. Mathew
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
Here here!! The 1151-2 Station Master sells for around $650 and from what I can find on the net the HS9-43050 Hustler antenna sells for $500. Steve, I think your closer to affording it than you think. Do it right once and worry about it again in 20 years. -Sean If you're up on a rough site, where winds and ice/snow will break cheap antennas, take a look to see what else is on the tower. I bet you'll see Stationmaster antennas, maybe with anti-sway bars. As much as you can't afford it, how many antennas will you end up putting on the tower - and watching them come crumbling down - until you CAN afford it? Bite the bullet. Raise money somehow. Raffle off some used equipment. Get donations. Find a rich ham who can order/donate one. If you already have an investment in a good public-service repeater, do your community the justice they deserve and go with something rated for the environment you have. Bob M. == --- Steve Hutzley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? 73 Steve N1TEC Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/28/2006 12:23 PM, you wrote: Bob Dengler wrote: At 11/28/2006 10:49 AM, you wrote: Not quite, as 145 MHz will never make it through the UHF helicals. It's just leaking out of the RX case. Neil's got the easiest solution: order a high-side LO xtal for your 447.575 RX. Bob NO6B But that will just move the problem somewhere else...up to 152.925 where you might make even more enemies than on 145.460... If Nate has a neighbor that likes to listen to 152.925, then yes. Bob NO6B It's reealy weak, Jeff. I'll probably move the ICOMs into a Station just to get a little more shielding first just to see if it helps, and then order crystals if that doesn't work... Guess I could just move the RX ICOM first and see how bad it is before futzing around with tuning the TX side. It probably doesn't help that the cables going to the PC aren't coming out of the case via any kind of feed-through caps, etc... bad Nate, no donut. They probably make nice antennas at VHF. :-) If it's in a Station, I can pull the audio and and signals needed off the backplane, which have already been nicely isolated from the guts of the radio with the built-in feed-through caps, etc - of course. I was just wanting to not waste a complete Station shelf on a link radio that only needs 250mW to be full-quieting or darn near close to it. If you have an MVP lying around, you might have better luck with it. It's I/O connector has feedthrough caps on each line, just inside the case. I do hear LO leakage out of them too, but not quite the level you experience. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
At 11/28/2006 12:31 PM, you wrote: I have taken a UHF transmitter and combined it with a VHF receiver for a crossband split. The very maximum deviation that I can obtain from the radio is about 1.5 KHz. This is with the pot turn all the way up. Mic high is being fed into a 1.0 MFD cap through a 15K resistor to the high side of the volume control. The audio is clear, just not all that loud. Mathew I think the output Z of VOL/SQ HI is too high to use for direct feeding the MIC HI input of the G.E. TX. In addition, you need to de-emphasize the audio as the VOL/SQ HI audio is still pre-emphasized the TX audio is also pre-emphasized again. This means you need a buffer (op)amp to de-emphasize the audio drive the 600 ohm mic input. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] spur from UHF MASTR II mobile - link radio
At 11/28/2006 01:06 PM, you wrote: Nothing forgotten - the ICOM still gets 10 V, just not 10 V for the oscillator. There are two separate 10 V feeds to the RX: one for the LO oscillator one for everything else. Bob Confused. The ICOM *is* the oscillator, and it only has one 10V input pin. Or are you saying that the multiplier chain is what gets turned on and off? --- Jeff I don't have the manual here, but on every radio I convert to duplex operation I have to strap the RX OSC line to the 10 volt feed, otherwise the RX signal goes away (replaced with noise, not a muted RX) everytime I key the TX. I'm assuming here that without 10 V on the RX OSC line there is no RX OXC, hence no LO. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
Bob, I am not all that familiar with op amp's. Do you have a diagram of something I can try to see if it works. The 1.5 KHz might be enough allowing the controller to maintain the rest, won't know until it is all hooked up and running. But in my thinking, 3.0 Khz would be much better, especially for those of us that are soft spoken. Mathew Bob Dengler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/28/2006 12:31 PM, you wrote: I have taken a UHF transmitter and combined it with a VHF receiver for a crossband split. The very maximum deviation that I can obtain from the radio is about 1.5 KHz. This is with the pot turn all the way up. Mic high is being fed into a 1.0 MFD cap through a 15K resistor to the high side of the volume control. The audio is clear, just not all that loud. Mathew I think the output Z of VOL/SQ HI is too high to use for direct feeding the MIC HI input of the G.E. TX. In addition, you need to de-emphasize the audio as the VOL/SQ HI audio is still pre-emphasized the TX audio is also pre-emphasized again. This means you need a buffer (op)amp to de-emphasize the audio drive the 600 ohm mic input. Bob NO6B - Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.
[Repeater-Builder] Help in identifying
I have what I believe is a circulator/isolator that I would like to identify. It is big and heavy, meaning it measures 13W x 4 5/8H x 1 7/8D, and weighs about 15 lbs. The label says: Microwave Associates, a M/A Com company Serial: 1009 Model J-210 It has three ports, one marked INPUT another marked OUTPUT and a third on the bottom with the marking obliterated. Next to the unknown port are two other studs that look like solid ports with the center conductor soldered. The connectors are N type, which leads me to think its UHF maybe... Any way of knowing for sure? There was a paper label which has deteriorated over the years and is now nearly illegible. Looks like is says either 160 or 460 MHz, the rest is completely unreadable. I can provide photos upon request. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS
[Repeater-Builder] Re: repeater antenna suggestions
Our club's 1151-2 Station Master was installed professionally in 1990 and is still going strong. No SWR problems at all and excellent wind rating. I'd highly recommend you spend the extra $150 for a top notch antenna. --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Sean Fitzharris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here here!! The 1151-2 Station Master sells for around $650 and from what I can find on the net the HS9-43050 Hustler antenna sells for $500. Steve, I think your closer to affording it than you think. Do it right once and worry about it again in 20 years. -Sean If you're up on a rough site, where winds and ice/snow will break cheap antennas, take a look to see what else is on the tower. I bet you'll see Stationmaster antennas, maybe with anti-sway bars. As much as you can't afford it, how many antennas will you end up putting on the tower - and watching them come crumbling down - until you CAN afford it? Bite the bullet. Raise money somehow. Raffle off some used equipment. Get donations. Find a rich ham who can order/donate one. If you already have an investment in a good public-service repeater, do your community the justice they deserve and go with something rated for the environment you have. Bob M. == --- Steve Hutzley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? 73 Steve N1TEC __ __ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help in identifying
Mark Tomany wrote: I have what I believe is a circulator/isolator that I would like to identify. It is big and heavy, meaning it measures 13W x 4 5/8H x 1 7/8D, and weighs about 15 lbs. The label says: Microwave Associates, a M/A Com company Serial: 1009 Model J-210 It has three ports, one marked INPUT another marked OUTPUT and a third on the bottom with the marking obliterated. Next to the unknown port are two other studs that look like solid ports with the center conductor soldered. The connectors are N type, which leads me to think its UHF maybe... Any way of knowing for sure? There was a paper label which has deteriorated over the years and is now nearly illegible. Looks like is says either 160 or 460 MHz, the rest is completely unreadable. I can provide photos upon request. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS In 1978 Microwave Associates legally changed its name to M/A-COM, Inc. to reflect its involvement in the growing communications market. M/A-COM 1011 Pawtucket Blvd. Lowell, Massachusetts 01853 UNITED STATES Phone: 978-442-5000 Fax: 978-442-5350 For RF/Microwave Products, contact us at: Americas -- Phone: 1-800-366-2266 http://www.macom.com/psc/jsp/SearchParts.jsp - came up blank on the part number. Judging by the name still being Microwave Associates, you're going to have to find an old-timer to figure out what that thing is. Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
Mathew Quaife wrote: Bob, I am not all that familiar with op amp's. Do you have a diagram of something I can try to see if it works. The 1.5 KHz might be enough allowing the controller to maintain the rest, won't know until it is all hooked up and running. But in my thinking, 3.0 Khz would be much better, especially for those of us that are soft spoken. Mathew If you're eventually going into a controller but you don't have it hooked up that way yet, most controllers have PLENTY of amplification in them to handle bringing that level up, and most have a factory recommended way of feeding in discriminator audio (basically what Vol Sq/Hi is... it's filtered, but still pre-emphasized) and handling the 6db/octave de-emphasis. You state The 1.5 KHz might be enough... remember you're not looking at deviation anymore - the signal's already detected and is just a peak-to-peak AC voltage now at the point of the radio you're looking at... you just need to know if the voltage swing there at Vol Sq/Hi is enough for the controller's input circuits. The controller manufacturer will publish (in a good controller manual) the range that an audio input will support, and will have instructions about how to set the audio levels inside the controller and coming back out. Check the controller manual for a section that talks about how to feed the controller with (pre-)emphasized audio. That's basically what Vol Sq/Hi is, from the standpoint of most controller designs. What controller is it? If I'm mistaken about what you're trying to do here, and you're not using a commercial controller, then you'll have to come up with an amplification circuit. Here's a little (ahem...) light... reading... on op-amps, if you're so inclined. Guaranteed to cure insomnia if you struggle with that. http://focus.ti.com/lit/an/sloa058/sloa058.pdf Nate WY0X
[Repeater-Builder] Re: GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
Hi Mathew, You did not mention where you're picking up the audio from the VHF RX. It should be speaker audio, that has been de-emphed. If you are taking it from the high-side of the squelch pot (VOL-SQ HI), that is discriminator audio, and as it has already been correctly pointed out by others, that is still pre-emhed by the users radio. If you send it along to the TX, it will be pre-emphed again there, making the audio double pre-emphed, and it will sound very tinny. One other item to think about. Have you measured the audio level at your pick-up point in the RX? It should be at least 2 volts peak-to- peak for maximum system deviation, usually 5 kHz, coming into the VHF RX. That should drive the pants off your TX. However, if you're not getting that kind of audio level, then you're going to have to adjust the audio level pot, inside the discriminator silver box on the RX. It is the edge-mounted pot. Start with a good audio level, and your TX should be able to deviate normally. Hope that helps, Shorty, K6JSI San Diego --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, n9lv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have taken a UHF transmitter and combined it with a VHF receiver for a crossband split. The very maximum deviation that I can obtain from the radio is about 1.5 KHz. This is with the pot turn all the way up. Mic high is being fed into a 1.0 MFD cap through a 15K resistor to the high side of the volume control. The audio is clear, just not all that loud. Mathew
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
At 08:24 AM 11/28/06, you wrote: Here here!! The 1151-2 Station Master sells for around $650 and from what I can find on the net the HS9-43050 Hustler antenna sells for $500. Steve, I think your closer to affording it than you think. Not quite. See below. Do it right once and worry about it again in 20 years. Very true. But I still prefer side mounted dipole arrays. -Sean Personally I wouldn't put a stationmaster at the top of a tower and expect to get maximum life from it. For one thing, I don't want to be the lightning rod. I'd side mount it or mount it on a crossmember, and add an anti-sway arm to the install. This way the antenna has top bracing (and lasts a helluva lot longer) and someone else takes the hit from Thor's hammer. I just include the anti-sway arm as part of the purchase price and consider the sum of the two as the cost of the antenna. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
In a message dated 11/28/2006 5:42:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just include the anti-sway arm as part of the purchase price and consider the sum of the two as the cost of the antenna. Mike WA6ILQ Why spend money buying a stabilizing paddle for a stationmaster? Buy a short piece of 2 PVC, flatten the end by judiciously using a heat gun or a propane torch and hog out a hole with a hole saw for the appropriate dimension.l
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Help in identifying
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mark Tomany [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have what I believe is a circulator/isolator that I would like to identify... -- Microwave Associates catalog sheet shows a J2101, that measures 13.0x4.75x1.88 Specs: Type: Circulator Power: 150 Watts Isolation: Minimum 70 dB, Typical 75 dB Insertion Loss: 1.2 dB Maximum, 0.9 dB Typical Bandwidth: 450 - 470 MHz The third port should be connected to a 50 ohm termination of continuous power handling capability equal to the transmitter power output. Now all you have to do is put it on the bench and see if its measurements match its specs to determine if is still functioning properly and if it will meet your needs.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help in identifying
If you decide you don't want/need it, I'd take it off your hands. Write me offlist if interested. Ken At 03:32 PM 11/28/2006, you wrote: I have what I believe is a circulator/isolator that I would like to identify. It is big and heavy, meaning it measures 13W x 4 5/8H x 1 7/8D, and weighs about 15 lbs. The label says: Microwave Associates, a M/A Com company Serial: 1009 Model J-210 It has three ports, one marked INPUT another marked OUTPUT and a third on the bottom with the marking obliterated. Next to the unknown port are two other studs that look like solid ports with the center conductor soldered. The connectors are N type, which leads me to think its UHF maybe... Any way of knowing for sure? There was a paper label which has deteriorated over the years and is now nearly illegible. Looks like is says either 160 or 460 MHz, the rest is completely unreadable. I can provide photos upon request. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of the world famous RC210 Repeater Controller and accessories. http://www.ah6le.net/arcom/index.html Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help in identifying
I work at a TV station that uses a Harris TV30L channel 4 TV transmitter. It has a circulator between the visual driver and PA. It is deeper that the one that you describe, but it uses type N fittings and is in the 70 MHz range. The connector indicates quality in this case. From the size, I would suspect 150-160 MHz range. Is there a way to retune these to a more useful frequency? 73 Glenn WB4UIV At 06:32 PM 11/28/06, you wrote: I have what I believe is a circulator/isolator that I would like to identify. It is big and heavy, meaning it measures 13W x 4 5/8H x 1 7/8D, and weighs about 15 lbs. The label says: Microwave Associates, a M/A Com company Serial: 1009 Model J-210 It has three ports, one marked INPUT another marked OUTPUT and a third on the bottom with the marking obliterated. Next to the unknown port are two other studs that look like solid ports with the center conductor soldered. The connectors are N type, which leads me to think its UHF maybe... Any way of knowing for sure? There was a paper label which has deteriorated over the years and is now nearly illegible. Looks like is says either 160 or 460 MHz, the rest is completely unreadable. I can provide photos upon request. Thanks, Mark - N9WYS Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
Why? For one thing, PVC is notorious for its lack of UV resistance, and is prone to craze, crack, or crumble when exposed to sunlight for long periods. Been there, done that. Some formulations of PVC have components that affect the RF field and thereby affect the radiation pattern and/or impedance of the antenna. Been there, done that, too. I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't afford to skimp on a side-mount antenna installation. In my opinion, a rugged fiberglass and stainless-steel anti-sway support from Decibel Products (Andrew) or RFS/Celwave is the only way to go. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:14 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions In a message dated 11/28/2006 5:42:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just include the anti-sway arm as part of the purchase price and consider the sum of the two as the cost of the antenna. Mike WA6ILQ Why spend money buying a stabilizing paddle for a stationmaster? Buy a short piece of 2 PVC, flatten the end by judiciously using a heat gun or a propane torch and hog out a hole with a hole saw for the appropriate dimension.l
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE Exec II Conv. Max audio 1.5 KHz Dev, how can I increase it
At 11/28/2006 14:52, you wrote: Bob, I am not all that familiar with op amp's. Do you have a diagram of something I can try to see if it works. The 1.5 KHz might be enough allowing the controller to maintain the rest, won't know until it is all hooked up and running. But in my thinking, 3.0 Khz would be much better, especially for those of us that are soft spoken. Mathew I cut the attached out from my Portapeater keying audio circuit; give it a try. The op amp can be just about any 8-pin dual op amp package. I prefer the TLV2372 or LMC6482. Bob NO6B Image2.png Description: PNG image
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
Most people see hustler and dismiss it as crap but I have a feeling most, if not all people responding have never even seen a Hustler Spirit series antenna. In comparing them to the Stationmaster type antennas I'd say they're constructed equally well. It's a good stout commercial grade antenna that will perform just as well as the beloved Stationmaster. I don't agree that exposed dipoles are problematic but if you're looking for a fiberglass stick the hustler is a good choice. http://www.new-tronics.com/main/html/base_spirit_model_430-450_mhz.html Steve - Original Message - From: Steve Hutzley To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 5:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Hello all, I know I'm asking a loaded question. Our club just lost our UHF antenna. The last straw was a wind storm. The make of the antenna that was up there is unknown. A stationmaster would be nice, but we cant afford it. A Decibel Products DB series - I hear are maintenance nightmares. We are looking at A hustler HS9-43050 - Any comments on the hustler antennas. Or other suggestions? 73 Steve N1TEC -- Check out the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. attachment: HD9-43050.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
We use the DB -420 with the DB side mount with no problems. John - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 9:42 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Why? For one thing, PVC is notorious for its lack of UV resistance, and is prone to craze, crack, or crumble when exposed to sunlight for long periods. Been there, done that. Some formulations of PVC have components that affect the RF field and thereby affect the radiation pattern and/or impedance of the antenna. Been there, done that, too. I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't afford to skimp on a side-mount antenna installation. In my opinion, a rugged fiberglass and stainless-steel anti-sway support from Decibel Products (Andrew) or RFS/Celwave is the only way to go. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 6:14 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions In a message dated 11/28/2006 5:42:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just include the anti-sway arm as part of the purchase price and consider the sum of the two as the cost of the antenna. Mike WA6ILQ Why spend money buying a stabilizing paddle for a stationmaster? Buy a short piece of 2 PVC, flatten the end by judiciously using a heat gun or a propane torch and hog out a hole with a hole saw for the appropriate dimension.l
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
I'm not disagreeing with you. I am not a fan of antenna maintenance. For those that may want to use PVC for some purpose, PVC electrical conduit is sunlight resistant and uses less fillers in the formulation. Gerald Pelnar WD0FYF McPherson, Ks - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:42 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions Why? For one thing, PVC is notorious for its lack of UV resistance, and is prone to craze, crack, or crumble when exposed to sunlight for long periods. Been there, done that. Some formulations of PVC have components that affect the RF field and thereby affect the radiation pattern and/or impedance of the antenna. Been there, done that, too. I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't afford to skimp on a side-mount antenna installation. In my opinion, a rugged fiberglass and stainless-steel anti-sway support from Decibel Products (Andrew) or RFS/Celwave is the only way to go.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
In a message dated 11/28/2006 8:04:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why? For one thing, PVC is notorious for its lack of UV resistance, and is prone to craze, crack, or crumble when exposed to sunlight for long periods. Been there, done that. Some formulations of PVC have components that affect the RF field and thereby affect the radiation pattern and/or impedance of the antenna. Been there, done that, too. I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't afford to skimp on a side-mount antenna installation. In my opinion, a rugged fiberglass and stainless-steel anti-sway support from Decibel Products (Andrew) or RFS/Celwave is the only way to go. Oh really? It's been up there for 24 years and the paddle looks one hell of a lot better than the tower that supports it. But glad to see you pouring out the bucks - good for the economy.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] repeater antenna suggestions
There's a difference between PVC at ground level (or a few hundred feet above it) and PVC at 5,500-6,000 feet AMSL. The IR and UV are much more intense at 6,000 feet elevation... You can gut a sunburn in an hour in the middle of December while swapping antennas or mounting feedline on a tower... been there, done that. And there's differences in PVC - there's white PVC water pipe, there's grey PVC electrical conduit, and there's specialized PVC tubing that is made for other purposes. Some lasts, others doesn't. So don't only make sure that you are comparing apples to apples and not to oranges, but in the same IR / UV environment. Mike WA6ILQ At 09:52 PM 11/28/06, you wrote: In a message dated 11/28/2006 8:04:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Why? For one thing, PVC is notorious for its lack of UV resistance, and is prone to craze, crack, or crumble when exposed to sunlight for long periods. Been there, done that. Some formulations of PVC have components that affect the RF field and thereby affect the radiation pattern and/or impedance of the antenna. Been there, done that, too. I'm sure there are other considerations, but I can't afford to skimp on a side-mount antenna installation. In my opinion, a rugged fiberglass and stainless-steel anti-sway support from Decibel Products (Andrew) or RFS/Celwave is the only way to go. Oh really? It's been up there for 24 years and the paddle looks one hell of a lot better than the tower that supports it. But glad to see you pouring out the bucks - good for the economy.
