Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
It's never enough to make a profit, and never cheap enough to have a ham pay for it. We certainly are a parsimonious group of people. ;-) 73, Joe, K1ike On 4/17/2010 11:39 PM, Mel Swanberg wrote: I probably could, but I never know what to charge for stuff like that. Mel - WA6JBD
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
That's a tough one. Mostly related to your financial situation and time available. I suspect that you wouldn't have many come your way, so being inundated isn't likely. If it were me, I'd cover all my actual expenses. Then I'd figure how long it takes, on average, to do the work. Figure a comfortable hourly rate (maybe what you are presently earning for your real job). Then set a fixed (flat) rate based on those numbers. Trying to charge time and materials isn't likely to work well with hams. The first question is always how much? Now, if it takes more time or materials for particular units, maybe set a flat rate for different models. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Mel Swanberg wa6...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 17, 2010 11:39 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please I probably could, but I never know what to charge for stuff like that. Mel - WA6JBD Mel - Looks like you could have a side job re-working these things for hams. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
I probably could, but I never know what to charge for stuff like that. Mel - WA6JBD Mel - Looks like you could have a side job re-working these things for hams. Chuck WB2EDV
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
It is a dual stage circulator. Attach dummy loads to the bottom connectors and sweep it with the generator on the antenna side and the detector on the transmit side, you should see about a 40-60dB dip on the frequency it is tuned for. On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:11 PM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.comwrote: Ran across a box of 5 or 6 of these units. Have no idea what they are aside from being a CelWave R.F product. If any of you have one of these, maybe you can tell me what it is, and what bandwidth it would be for. Right now, its my *guess* that its an 800 band contraption. Thanks for your insight! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
At 02:11 PM 4/16/2010, La Rue Communications wrote: Ran across a box of 5 or 6 of these units. Have no idea what they are aside from being a CelWave R.F product. If any of you have one of these, maybe you can tell me what it is, and what bandwidth it would be for. Right now, its my *guess* that its an 800 band contraption. ---Looks like a circulator (isolator) to me. No model # on the label (and no way to tell from the pic what its freq is)? Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
---Looks like a circulator (isolator) to me. No model # on the label (and no way to tell from the pic what its freq is)? I should have said a dual stage circulator... Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: tsoli...@tir.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Looks like a two stage circulator. One port is for input one for output and the other two (that come out the same side) are terminated into 50 ohm dummy loads. Unknown what frequency range, probably 800-900 range, just guessing. tom -Original Message- From: La Rue Communications Sent: Apr 16, 2010 5:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Ran across a box of 5 or 6 of these units. Have no idea what they are aside from being a CelWave R.F product. If any of you have one of these, maybe you can tell me what it is, and what bandwidth it would be for. Right now, its my *guess* that its an 800 band contraption. Thanks for your insight! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
They may stretch up to 902-928 Ham. On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 2:33 PM, La Rue Communications laruec...@gmail.comwrote: Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - *From:* tsoli...@tir.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Friday, April 16, 2010 2:21 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Looks like a two stage circulator. One port is for input one for output and the other two (that come out the same side) are terminated into 50 ohm dummy loads. Unknown what frequency range, probably 800-900 range, just guessing. tom -Original Message- From: La Rue Communications Sent: Apr 16, 2010 5:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Ran across a box of 5 or 6 of these units. Have no idea what they are aside from being a CelWave R.F product. If any of you have one of these, maybe you can tell me what it is, and what bandwidth it would be for. Right now, its my *guess* that its an 800 band contraption. Thanks for your insight! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
I just walked over to the shelf and grabbed 2 or 3 of the identical Dual Isolators. I think these came out of Cell Sites. That would make them 800 Mhz. I can add to your land fill exercise John! Bill _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:34 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: tsoli...@tir. mailto:tsoli...@tir.com com To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:21 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Looks like a two stage circulator. One port is for input one for output and the other two (that come out the same side) are terminated into 50 ohm dummy loads. Unknown what frequency range, probably 800-900 range, just guessing. tom -Original Message- From: La Rue Communications Sent: Apr 16, 2010 5:11 PM To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Ran across a box of 5 or 6 of these units. Have no idea what they are aside from being a CelWave R.F product. If any of you have one of these, maybe you can tell me what it is, and what bandwidth it would be for. Right now, its my *guess* that its an 800 band contraption. Thanks for your insight! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Here's a picture of one from my office: Bill Hudson W6CBS Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 image001.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Bill Hudson To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Here's a picture of one from my office: Bill Hudson W6CBS Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 image001.jpg
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Here are the precise instructions on tuning that bad boy to see if it will stretch to 902-928. It is on the Repeater-Builder website: http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/pdfs/db-dual-junction-tunable-isolators-f ield-tuning-instructions.pdf Bill Hudson W6CBS San Carlos, California (Hi to Knox) _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Bill Hudson mailto:w6...@pacbell.net To: Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Here's a picture of one from my office: Bill Hudson W6CBS Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 image001.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Thanks again Bill - I will try that someday soon! Got several other projects I'm engrossed in at the moment. Knox sends his regards as well! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Bill Hudson To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:12 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Here are the precise instructions on tuning that bad boy to see if it will stretch to 902-928. It is on the Repeater-Builder website: http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/pdfs/db-dual-junction-tunable-isolators-field-tuning-instructions.pdf Bill Hudson W6CBS San Carlos, California (Hi to Knox) -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Bill Hudson To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 2:56 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Here's a picture of one from my office: Bill Hudson W6CBS Thanks all for the speedy responses. I found one more (with a tag to boot!) assuming they are all the same, they are Model CD800-F, tuned to 875.00 MHz. Ugh, more 800 crap for the junkpile! Is it wrong to be cursing Nextel? I will probably be sweeping it with a generator and make sure these are all the same. With the tag, it should be cake. John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 image001.jpg
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
I might be a little wrong because I dont have one in front of me, but try this: Connect the Generator of a spectrum analyzer to the connector all the way to the right. Connect a dummy load to the connector on the bottom left. Connect the detector to the connector all the way to the left. You should see a dip where the port is currently tuned. Try moving the adjustment screw next to the port with the dummy load on it. Outwards should increse the frequency. Note how far up it will come. Then Rotate the connectors so that dummy load is all the way left, detector all the way right and generator bottom left. Tune next capacitor and repeat. Then you can do basically the same for the next stage. Check this sheet out: http://www.repeater-builder.com/db/pdfs/db-dual-junction-tunable-isolators-field-tuning-instructions.pdf
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
John, Don't get your hopes too high, because most dual isolators can only be tuned 3% or so away from the frequency they were manufactured to operate at. For example, my Celwave catalog shows those isolators for the 806-1000 MHz range, but that range refers to the manufacturing capability and not the tunable range. In fact, most manufacturers of circulators and isolators will advise you that the unit must be remanufactured if the operating frequency is moved more than a relatively small amount. A case in point: One local radio club received a dual isolator that was originally made for the 152 MHz commercial band, and wanted to use it on a 147 MHz Amateur repeater. Although it SEEMED to tune down that far, it actually began to generate some spurious signals and got quite warm. It was shipped back to the manufacturer for reworking, at a cost of about $250, and performed perfectly afterwards. Since your isolators are made for 875 MHz, you might get them up to 902 MHz, but probably not much further. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Thanks Eric et al. Thinking that these are probably worthless and debating whether or not its worth my time. Then again, you miss 100% of the shots you dont take. :-) I will let you all know my results. Soon! Thanks again! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:27 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please John, Don't get your hopes too high, because most dual isolators can only be tuned 3% or so away from the frequency they were manufactured to operate at. For example, my Celwave catalog shows those isolators for the 806-1000 MHz range, but that range refers to the manufacturing capability and not the tunable range. In fact, most manufacturers of circulators and isolators will advise you that the unit must be remanufactured if the operating frequency is moved more than a relatively small amount. A case in point: One local radio club received a dual isolator that was originally made for the 152 MHz commercial band, and wanted to use it on a 147 MHz Amateur repeater. Although it SEEMED to tune down that far, it actually began to generate some spurious signals and got quite warm. It was shipped back to the manufacturer for reworking, at a cost of about $250, and performed perfectly afterwards. Since your isolators are made for 875 MHz, you might get them up to 902 MHz, but probably not much further. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Disassemble, save the screws and Type-N bulkhead connectors and toss the rest! LOL - Original Message - From: La Rue Communications To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 6:32 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thanks Eric et al. Thinking that these are probably worthless and debating whether or not its worth my time. Then again, you miss 100% of the shots you dont take. :-) I will let you all know my results. Soon! Thanks again! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 - Original Message - From: Eric Lemmon To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:27 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please John, Don't get your hopes too high, because most dual isolators can only be tuned 3% or so away from the frequency they were manufactured to operate at. For example, my Celwave catalog shows those isolators for the 806-1000 MHz range, but that range refers to the manufacturing capability and not the tunable range. In fact, most manufacturers of circulators and isolators will advise you that the unit must be remanufactured if the operating frequency is moved more than a relatively small amount. A case in point: One local radio club received a dual isolator that was originally made for the 152 MHz commercial band, and wanted to use it on a 147 MHz Amateur repeater. Although it SEEMED to tune down that far, it actually began to generate some spurious signals and got quite warm. It was shipped back to the manufacturer for reworking, at a cost of about $250, and performed perfectly afterwards. Since your isolators are made for 875 MHz, you might get them up to 902 MHz, but probably not much further. YMMV... 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of La Rue Communications Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 3:03 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please Thats the one Bill! I have 3 units that look just like that, and 3 that have the CelWave R.F on the label. Any HAMs good with Trap Shooting? :-) One more questionif these may stretch to 902 - 928 HAM range, would there be any way to confirm that, since I dont have the proper setup at the moment to verify. Would that be verified with the monitor? John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
A lot of us amateur microwavers retune circulators with external magnets. With a handful of otherwise useless circulators, one could tear one apart, recover the magnets, and apply them to the outside of the case of the unit to be tuned. A network analyzer helps, so you can watch what's happening in both directions, but that's not a requirement. You can tune them up or down quite a bit, depending on the orientation of the external magnets. Once you find a combination that works, the external magnets get glued to the circulator case with epoxy. Mel - WA6JBD Don't get your hopes too high, because most dual isolators can only be tuned 3% or so away from the frequency they were manufactured to operate at.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Mel, I have heard that done, and if it works, great. However, the remanufacturing of typical VHF and UHF circulators almost always involves machining or replacement of the ferrite components. Since the Celwave circulators that started this thread have steel cases, I wonder how an external magnet can affect the internal magnetic field. I certainly agree that a network analyzer is best suited for circulator tuning. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mel Swanberg Sent: Friday, April 16, 2010 7:23 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please A lot of us amateur microwavers retune circulators with external magnets. With a handful of otherwise useless circulators, one could tear one apart, recover the magnets, and apply them to the outside of the case of the unit to be tuned. A network analyzer helps, so you can watch what's happening in both directions, but that's not a requirement. You can tune them up or down quite a bit, depending on the orientation of the external magnets. Once you find a combination that works, the external magnets get glued to the circulator case with epoxy. Mel - WA6JBD
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Identify Please
Hi Eric, The steel cases are not an impediment to the magnetic field, at least not enough to make retuning impossible. Microwave type circulators are built in a similar fashion, just smaller, and the technique is well known among those of us who play in the microwave region. Just to give an idea of the magnitude of change that's possible, 1.8 GHz circulators can be moved up to 2304, and I have moved 11.7 GHz circulators down to 10368 MHz. I haven't specifically attempted to move 870 MHz circulators up to 928, but I see no reason why this couldn't at least be attempted if someone was so inclined. If someone wants to attempt it, you can either dissect an unwanted circulator, or maybe better yet, use some of those extremely powerful rare earth magnets. I buy 'em by the handful at the county fairs for cheap, just to have them around for such purpose. The network analyzer makes it seem stupidly simple, but a SA/TG would work nearly as well. Just remember to check it both ways before you apply the glue. Mel - WA6JBD Mel, I have heard that done, and if it works, great. However, the remanufacturing of typical VHF and UHF circulators almost always involves machining or replacement of the ferrite components. Since the Celwave circulators that started this thread have steel cases, I wonder how an external magnet can affect the internal magnetic field. I certainly agree that a network analyzer is best suited for circulator tuning. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
