Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR Cable
LMR and similar cables are not rated for low PIM Kindly let me Know what exactly PIM means 73s rffun - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, March 01, 2010 4:02 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR Cable Indeed. I'll read the archives. Thanks. 73 On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: The subject comes up on this list about every other week. I can only assume you are new. LMR and similar cables are not rated for low PIM, a fact verified by the manufacturer. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Stock Power Supplies I've never heard of it. As an installer, I'm always under pressure to use less expensive feedlines than the venerable Heliax, and I had often considered LMR, but never actually succumbed to the temptation. This is interesting information. Is this a well documented phenomenon? Anyone else like to chime in on this... Larry
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR Cable
Konstantinos Hatzakis wrote: / LMR and similar cables are not rated for low PIM Kindly let me Know what exactly PIM means 73s rffun / Go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermodulation Scroll down to Passive intermod. 73, Joe, K1ike Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] LMR Cable
The subject comes up on this list about every other week. I can only assume you are new. LMR and similar cables are not rated for low PIM, a fact verified by the manufacturer. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Larry Horlick To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:49 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Stock Power Supplies I've never heard of it. As an installer, I'm always under pressure to use less expensive feedlines than the venerable Heliax, and I had often considered LMR, but never actually succumbed to the temptation. This is interesting information. Is this a well documented phenomenon? Anyone else like to chime in on this... Larry
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR Cable
Indeed. I'll read the archives. Thanks. 73 On Sun, Feb 28, 2010 at 8:59 PM, Chuck Kelsey wb2...@roadrunner.com wrote: The subject comes up on this list about every other week. I can only assume you are new. LMR and similar cables are not rated for low PIM, a fact verified by the manufacturer. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - *From:* Larry Horlick llhorl...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 28, 2010 8:49 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Micor Stock Power Supplies I've never heard of it. As an installer, I'm always under pressure to use less expensive feedlines than the venerable Heliax, and I had often considered LMR, but never actually succumbed to the temptation. This is interesting information. Is this a well documented phenomenon? Anyone else like to chime in on this... Larry
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR cable
At 5/24/2007 03:37, you wrote: Whoops. Should have said no movement and I should have changed the subject line. Chuck I've had problems with RG-213 jumpers lying on the floor inside the shack that caused desense. Movement of the cable is not necessary to cause desense. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] LMR cable
Whoops. Should have said no movement and I should have changed the subject line. Chuck - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 6:35 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DStar Repeater Pics I've seen the same thing happen with indoor jumpers that had to movement, no weather. You might get lucky, but be prepared to have your luck run out. And when it does, you get to pay more than you would have had you avoided the stuff in the first place. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2007 2:11 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: DStar Repeater Pics Hi Steve, Based on my most recent dance with LMR feedline I don't use it in any duplex radio system. Nor to I try to use it in any half duplex radio system. The last horror story was a local club repeater. Some yet unknown person replaced the coax cable from the circulator (IMD Panel) to the duplexer with an equivalent length of LMR-400. The mentioned repeater arbitrarily started acting real funky after a year or two in operation. Grunge and reduced sensitivity were the owners complaint. Much testing of the entire system and after a number of hours the location (and verification) of the problematic LMR-400 coax jumper again confirms another Times Microwave Cluster $%*$#. Replacing the LMR-400 jumper returned the system to normal operation. I have no clue what causes LMR-400 to become problematic in at least two or three ways I've experienced system problems. But some of these jumpers and coax lengths are in very well protected locations. So I discount excessive heat, abuse and movement as possible problem contribution sources. The wifi crowd jumps on the LMR-400 wagon because of cost and promised spec ... based on what I call the Wal Mart effect. But most of the wifi stuff is actually only half duplex operation... with rapid t/r switching. So they don't normally have the full duplex fun I've run into. Alas the no free lunch rule applies. Any nearby transmitter can cause the LMR gremlin to visit so I suspect some of the wifi people are scratching their head with system problems and no clue as to why. Or as in many cases out here.. they simply deem the path unusable without good reason. I hope the LMR feedline works better for you than it has for me and (now) more than a few of my customers. I'm sure the war stories will continue over time as people figure out where the shot in the foot came from... cheers, skipp Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR cable Q:
radiomog wrote: All this talk of LMR cable problems. does anyone have any reference articles or a web site where I can delve deeper into this subject ? I have only ever seen the topic discussed on this particular list. If you look at the archives, you will see that it's been debated many times over the last several years. Personally, I have seen the problem and have been able to remove noise from duplex systems by eliminating these types of cable (9913, LMR-400, etc.) The problem is these cables are made from dissimilar metals, tinned copper wire over an aluminum foil braid. This situation, in time, creates thousands of tiny diodes; which relates to IMD, noise, and just plain trouble. I have had several folks email me stating they had noise on their system that couldn't seem to be resolved by standard troubleshooting methods. When asked, many of these systems used tinned braid over aluminum foil cables somewhere in the system. In *many* of these cases, the trouble was solved by replacing the suspect cables with RG-214, RG-142, Andrew Superflex, etc. LMR is fine for simplex communications, by itself. There are now several site managers that won't allow this type of coax on a commercial site, because of its poor duplex service. I was going to write an article about it but just never did... I guess I should. Kevin
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR cable Q:
Kevin Custer wrote: The problem is these cables are made from dissimilar metals, tinned copper wire over an aluminum foil braid. Please remove the word braid. damn. these new fingers grin kuggie
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
I misspoke. What is the name of the utility company
in New York State that gives you the better rate?
I'm in Niagara Mohawk territory at my site. If
anyone know of a preferred rate available in their service territory for a
stand-along building with no sewer, please let me know.
Chuck
WB2EDV
- Original Message -
From:
russ
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:46
PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE
Electricity Rates
No it give a non commercial rate.
It is just about the same as the residential rate. Much better then what
they wanted to charge.
Good luck,
Russ, W3CH
- Original Message -
From:
Chuck Kelsey
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
11:56 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR
CABLE Electricity Rates
Russ,
What electric utility serves your New York
repeaters that gives you a "residential" rate?
Chuck
WB2EDV
- Original Message -
From:
russ
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
8:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR
CABLE Electricity Rates
You will need to go to the power co. armed with your copy of part 97.
They will want to see the part and copy it on non commercial use of Ham
radio. It has worked for us on the Metro-Comm repeaters in NY, PA, NJ and
NC.
Do not go after residential rates you don't live there but they
do have a rate for non commercial rate. If the electric CO will not help
call your state PUC. It is a bit of work but it is well worth it in the
end. The same thing works for your phone line as well.
Good luck and 73,
Russ, W3CH
Trustee Metro-Comm
Ham repeater network
W3PS,
- Original Message -
From:
Joel Mele
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004
6:59 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LMR
CABLE Electricity Rates
Many thanks to Russ W3CH and John VE3AMZ for the info
on LMR cable used as jumpers on a repeater.
Good luck to Steaven W4YI with respect to electricity
rates. I have not been successful in obtaining
"non-commercial" power rates for an amateur repeater on a commercial
site.
Maybe Steaven will convince the local utility to use a
lower rate.
Thanks again to all.
Joel
W4SLH
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
Sorry about all the typos ;-) If you can't decode what I typed, let me know and I'll send you a decoder ring. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates I misspoke. What is the name of the utility company in New York State that gives you the better rate? I'm in Niagara Mohawk territory at my site. If anyone know of a preferred rate available in their service territory for a stand-along building with no sewer, please let me know. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: russ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates No it give a non commercial rate. It is just about the same as the residential rate. Much better then what they wanted to charge. Good luck, Russ, W3CH Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
Many thanks to Russ W3CH and John VE3AMZ for the info on LMR cable used as jumpers on a repeater. Good luck to Steaven W4YI with respect to electricity rates. I have not been successful in obtaining "non-commercial" power rates for an amateur repeater on a commercial site. Maybe Steaven will convince the local utility to use a lower rate. Thanks again to all. Joel W4SLH Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
You will need to go to the power co. armed with your copy of part 97. They will want to see the part and copy it on non commercial use of Ham radio. It has worked for us on the Metro-Comm repeaters in NY, PA, NJ and NC. Do not go after residential rates you don't live there but they do have a rate for non commercial rate. If the electric CO will not help call your state PUC. It is a bit of work but it is well worth it in the end. The same thing works for your phone line as well. Good luck and 73, Russ, W3CH Trustee Metro-Comm Ham repeater network W3PS, - Original Message - From: Joel Mele To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates Many thanks to Russ W3CH and John VE3AMZ for the info on LMR cable used as jumpers on a repeater. Good luck to Steaven W4YI with respect to electricity rates. I have not been successful in obtaining "non-commercial" power rates for an amateur repeater on a commercial site. Maybe Steaven will convince the local utility to use a lower rate. Thanks again to all. Joel W4SLH Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
Russ, What electric utility serves your New York repeaters that gives you a "residential" rate? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: russ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates You will need to go to the power co. armed with your copy of part 97. They will want to see the part and copy it on non commercial use of Ham radio. It has worked for us on the Metro-Comm repeaters in NY, PA, NJ and NC. Do not go after residential rates you don't live there but they do have a rate for non commercial rate. If the electric CO will not help call your state PUC. It is a bit of work but it is well worth it in the end. The same thing works for your phone line as well. Good luck and 73, Russ, W3CH Trustee Metro-Comm Ham repeater network W3PS, - Original Message - From: Joel Mele To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates Many thanks to Russ W3CH and John VE3AMZ for the info on LMR cable used as jumpers on a repeater. Good luck to Steaven W4YI with respect to electricity rates. I have not been successful in obtaining "non-commercial" power rates for an amateur repeater on a commercial site. Maybe Steaven will convince the local utility to use a lower rate. Thanks again to all. Joel W4SLH Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates
No it give a non commercial rate. It is just about the same as the residential rate. Much better then what they wanted to charge. Good luck, Russ, W3CH - Original Message - From: Chuck Kelsey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 11:56 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates Russ, What electric utility serves your New York repeaters that gives you a "residential" rate? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: russ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates You will need to go to the power co. armed with your copy of part 97. They will want to see the part and copy it on non commercial use of Ham radio. It has worked for us on the Metro-Comm repeaters in NY, PA, NJ and NC. Do not go after residential rates you don't live there but they do have a rate for non commercial rate. If the electric CO will not help call your state PUC. It is a bit of work but it is well worth it in the end. The same thing works for your phone line as well. Good luck and 73, Russ, W3CH Trustee Metro-Comm Ham repeater network W3PS, - Original Message - From: Joel Mele To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 6:59 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] LMR CABLE Electricity Rates Many thanks to Russ W3CH and John VE3AMZ for the info on LMR cable used as jumpers on a repeater. Good luck to Steaven W4YI with respect to electricity rates. I have not been successful in obtaining "non-commercial" power rates for an amateur repeater on a commercial site. Maybe Steaven will convince the local utility to use a lower rate. Thanks again to all. Joel W4SLH Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
