Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
Back in the '70s I was forced to use a Ringo Ranger atop a 100 ft tower for a repeater. The antenna provided about 15 mile coverage in our flat terrain. The performance increased to about 20 miles when I added a makeshift ground plane to the bottom of the antenna. When we replaced the Ranger with a DB-224 the coverage increased to around 25 miles, all with the same 60 watt GE Prog Line. Just some recollections of the Ranger performance. On the other hand, a ham in McKinney over 30 miles away could work all the mobiles in Greenville with no problem from his Ranger, so the installation appeared to be highly variable. I think the later addition of the feedline section and ground plane to the Ranger design provided some compensation to the shortcomings of the Ranger. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Tue, 6/24/08, Ernest Kapphahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Ernest Kapphahn [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, June 24, 2008, 10:27 AM You could replace a commercial VHF folded dipole array with a Ringo Ranger, but you would experience reduced performance, higher lightning risk, and will likely have a broken antenna in the first year of use. Re-examine the engineering data on that tower and you will probably find the dipole array will not exceed it's capability. When dealing with repeater antennas, be leary of advice from amateurs whose only experience is with their base stations. Ernie W6KAP --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6/23/2008 19:28, you wrote: Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supporting tower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bay folded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for that tower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. In a word, yuk! _
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
No, I was referring to whoever suggested a Ringo Ranger for repeater use. Ernie W6KAP --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 6/24/2008 08:27, you wrote: You could replace a commercial VHF folded dipole array with a Ringo Ranger, but you would experience reduced performance, higher lightning risk, and will likely have a broken antenna in the first year of use. Re-examine the engineering data on that tower and you will probably find the dipole array will not exceed it's capability. When dealing with repeater antennas, be leary of advice from amateurs whose only experience is with their base stations. Ernie W6KAP I hope you're not referring to me. If so, I will point out that I have several repeater antennas in service on 5000+ ft. mountaintops, some of them are Comets Trams. They're certainly not as rugged as commercial antennas, but they hold up quite well around here for what they are, they do have the advertised gain. Bob NO6B --- In mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, no6b@ wrote: At 6/23/2008 19:28, you wrote: Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supporting tower. The overwhelming opinion is that our current 210C4 four bay folded dipole would be too much of a weight and wind load for that tower. One comment has been the Ringo Ranger. In a word, yuk! The wind load of the Cushcraft Ringo Ranger II ARX2B http://cushcraft.com/comm/support/pdf/RINGOS%20AR2%206%2010%20ARX450%20220B%202B.pdfhttp://cushcraft.com/comm/support/pdf/RINGOS%20AR2%206%2010%20ARX450%20220B%202B.pdf is 0.5 square feet. The windload of the Sinclar SD214 http://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/resources/pdf/SD214-HF2P3LDFhttp://www.sinclairtechnologies.com/catalog/resources/pdf/SD214-HF2P3LDF(D00S-LSABK)-DI.pdf (newer model to 210C4) is 5.57 square feet. Although the ice area is 17.04 sq ft. The SD214 has a dbd gain of 7.2, dbi of 9.3. The Ringo Ranger has dbi gain of 7.0. Inflated gain figure: the antenna isn't long enough to make that much gain. If you want low wind loading, you probably can't beat the Comet or Diamond antennas. Only problem is the high gain versions (GP9/X500HNA) are going to bend a lot in high winds. Haven't noticed a problem out here, but then again we don't often get winds 50 MPH. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
At 6/24/2008 09:57, you wrote: No, I was referring to whoever suggested a Ringo Ranger for repeater use. Ernie W6KAP Ahh yes, I think we can all agree that a Ringo Ranger isn't a suitable repeater antenna. Unfortunately, it was all I had back in my early days for my 2 meter base station. The Comet, Diamond less expensive knock-offs didn't exist back then. I tried building a StationMaster out of RG-8, but I could never get known-good plans for one (this was even before the days of dial-up BBSs). Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
You know, a Ringo only has metal-to-metal joints so it can be fit in a small box for shipping. It's not a bad performing antenna for its size otherwise, and would be great where low wind load is required. I wonder if someone with the right materials and heliarc welding skills couldn't clone a joint-less, clamp-less version which would be suitable for full duplex? 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna At 6/24/2008 09:57, you wrote: No, I was referring to whoever suggested a Ringo Ranger for repeater use. Ernie W6KAP Ahh yes, I think we can all agree that a Ringo Ranger isn't a suitable repeater antenna. Unfortunately, it was all I had back in my early days for my 2 meter base station. The Comet, Diamond less expensive knock-offs didn't exist back then. I tried building a StationMaster out of RG-8, but I could never get known-good plans for one (this was even before the days of dial-up BBSs). Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
A Ringo (not the Ranger) is an end-fed half wave -- the same antenna as a Jpole. If you want a rugged inexpensive decent antenna, build a copper pipe Jpole. Many plans are on the net. I've built several from the Copper Cactus web site. Works great, lasts a long time. Mike/W5JR ---[Original Message]--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Jun 24, 2008 11:51:46 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna You know, a Ringo only has metal-to-metal joints so it can be fit in a small box for shipping. It's not a bad performing antenna for its size otherwise, and would be great where low wind load is required. I wonder if someone with the right materials and heliarc welding skills couldn't clone a joint-less, clamp-less version which would be suitable for full duplex? 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 9:24 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna At 6/24/2008 09:57, you wrote: No, I was referring to whoever suggested a Ringo Ranger for repeater use. Ernie W6KAP Ahh yes, I think we can all agree that a Ringo Ranger isn't a suitable repeater antenna. Unfortunately, it was all I had back in my early days for my 2 meter base station. The Comet, Diamond less expensive knock-offs didn't exist back then. I tried building a StationMaster out of RG-8, but I could never get known-good plans for one (this was even before the days of dial-up BBSs). Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
At 09:51 PM 2008-06-24 -0600, Paul Plack wrote: You know, a Ringo only has metal-to-metal joints so it can be fit in a small box for shipping. It's not a bad performing antenna for its size otherwise, and would be great where low wind load is required. I wonder if someone with the right materials and heliarc welding skills couldn't clone a joint-less, clamp-less version which would be suitable for full duplex? Interesting point. I was having a discussion on an aluminum antenna mount for attaching to the end of the eaves on the house with a welding instructor yesterday. I could easily take the antenna to a local welding shop and he'd likely have it welded in ten minutes and charge me $5 or $10 cash. Tony
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Reasonably low wind load antenna
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Tony VE6MVP [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Folks We're moving a VHF amateur repeater to a 96' Trylon self supporting tower. snip What would be suggestions for an alternative? Comments? Thanks, Tony (rapidly learning lots about towers and repeaters) My experience with Trylon Towers is that they are very robust, and will probably perform much better than they say they will. I have installed many of them in commercial applications, and I have been very pleased by their strength and overall performance. I beleive you have nothing to worry about. In my humble opinionPut up the Sinclair, and don't worry about it. Shorty, K6JSI San Diego
