RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Hi Bob Yes the shutdowns are ongoing. They will allow some fixed stations to continue but only at very low power. For all practical purposes the Air Force is imposing a quiet zone for 420-450 Mhz within 125 miles of the MA PAVE PAWS site and 150 miles of the CA one. Yes they did shut down 20 odd PAVEPAWS sites but the ones in AK, CA and MA were upgraded with all new equipment from Raytheon (?) and now do the work of all of the old sites, and also are better at detecting sea launched missles. These remaining super PAVEPAWS sites if you will, will continue on now for many years to come. The 440 guys in MA are all talking about moving to 900 or 220 or 2 m and there has been some talk about trying to get a primary allocation on the 700 band. But 440 is all through around here in MA as it is generally seen. That would be nice since we are secondary on 900 also. 73 Glenn -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Dengler Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:56 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening At 9/19/2007 01:52 PM, you wrote: >But, what would you realign it to? I believe PAVE PAWS covers the >entire band. There is no spectrum left to put them. Perhaps they can be QSY'd during the QRT period, assuming PAVE PAWS will only operate for a few years given that one site has already been shut down. When I was in Cape Cod last month there were still some 70 cm repeaters operating, but the locals were talking about a total shutdown. Don't know if it's happened yet. >Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause >interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating >in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and >non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> What amateur modes are legal outside the amateur bands? Bob NO6B No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 11:53 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
I know, but in many areas there are a lot of unused frequencies. Still, I would never seriously tell someone to operate there. I would also not recommend operating repeaters in the parts of the band where repeaters are prohibited. Others don't see this prohibition as a deterrent, however. The reason? "The repeater bands are full" and there is a desire to put more repeaters on the air. This goes back to a comment I made before. IF you can justify putting repeaters in all parts of the band based solely on lack of 'repeater spectrum', what is to keep you from being able to justify extending beyond the ham bands? Illegal is illegal no matter how illegal it is. We all know there is lots of underutilized spectrum just above and below 2M and 220. Is that a reason to put ham repeaters there? (rhetorical question) Joe M. Mark Stennett wrote: > > Broadcasters use 450 to 451 for telemetry and remote pickup. You don't > want to mess with them there. I know this first hand. > > 73 de na6m > > MCH wrote: > > The same ones that are legal inside the ham bands but choose to operate > > in spectrum probibited under Part 97. Illegal is illegal no matter where > > it operates. > > > > Joe M. > > > > Bob Dengler wrote: > >> At 9/19/2007 01:52 PM, you wrote: > >>> Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause > >>> interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating > >>> in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and > >>> non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> > >> What amateur modes are legal outside the amateur bands? > >> > >> Bob NO6B > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Broadcasters use 450 to 451 for telemetry and remote pickup. You don't want to mess with them there. I know this first hand. 73 de na6m MCH wrote: > The same ones that are legal inside the ham bands but choose to operate > in spectrum probibited under Part 97. Illegal is illegal no matter where > it operates. > > Joe M. > > Bob Dengler wrote: >> At 9/19/2007 01:52 PM, you wrote: >>> Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause >>> interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating >>> in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and >>> non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> >> What amateur modes are legal outside the amateur bands? >> >> Bob NO6B > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
The same ones that are legal inside the ham bands but choose to operate in spectrum probibited under Part 97. Illegal is illegal no matter where it operates. Joe M. Bob Dengler wrote: > > At 9/19/2007 01:52 PM, you wrote: > >Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause > >interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating > >in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and > >non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> > > What amateur modes are legal outside the amateur bands? > > Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Understood. As someone who lives on the border of that scheme, I understand the issues all too well. Joe M. Glenn Shaw wrote: > > I was just commenting on the discussion of coordinators setting up schemes > such as in New England where half the repeaters are - input and half are + > input. This can cause some interesting situations during the right band > conditions from machines in other parts of the country. > > Glenn > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MCH > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:53 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > But, what would you realign it to? I believe PAVE PAWS covers the entire > band. There is no spectrum left to put them. > > Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause interference > to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating in non-repeater > bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and non-interference where they > are operating'). ;-> > > Joe M. > > Glenn Shaw wrote: > > > > Its pretty much a moot point now in most of New Eng due to Pave Paws. > > Maybe it would be a good time forNESMC to realign things with all > > these 440 repeaters going QRT. > > > > Glenn N1GBY > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of MCH > > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:12 PM > > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > > > I believe it was done to accomodate radios that would not TX well > > below > > 445 MHz. Those repeaters could use LIHO and TX well between 447 and 450 > MHz. > > > > Yes, it's going to be 'fun' when the 12.5 kHz pairs come into use. > > > > Joe M. > > > > Bob Dengler wrote: > > > > > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm > > > pairs every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either > > > all + or all > > > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues > > > to be a concern. > > > > > > Bob NO6B > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > Checked by AVG. > > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: > > 9/18/2007 > > 11:53 AM > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 > 11:53 AM > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
At 9/19/2007 01:52 PM, you wrote: >But, what would you realign it to? I believe PAVE PAWS covers the entire >band. There is no spectrum left to put them. Perhaps they can be QSY'd during the QRT period, assuming PAVE PAWS will only operate for a few years given that one site has already been shut down. When I was in Cape Cod last month there were still some 70 cm repeaters operating, but the locals were talking about a total shutdown. Don't know if it's happened yet. >Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause >interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating >in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and >non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> What amateur modes are legal outside the amateur bands? Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
>From what I've been told, when 70cm first started to "take off" for FM repeaters, repeater owners in the New York City metro found that they had fewer issues with desense and overload if they flipped to a negative offset (i.e. get the ham repeater Rx further away from the 450-455 commercial repeater Tx's). By the time the coordination councils got on the ball, there was a mish-mash of repeaters operating with either positive or negative shift. As a "fix" (using that term loosely), they decided that all of the "odd" pairs (44x.x25 and 44x.x75) would be negative shift and all of the "even" (44x.x00 and 44x.x50) pairs would be positive shift. This became the policy for the adjacent coordinators, and, like a bad cold, it spread up and down the Atlantic coast from New England to Virginia as more 440 repeaters came online. It's an ugly mess, and one that I"ve made noise about fixing by having everyone go to positive offset to align with our respective neighbors to the west and south. Most of the coordination councils have been in agreement, but others remain opposed, so nothing has changed yet... --- Jeff > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bob Dengler > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 1:19 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 > cm pairs > every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either > all + or all > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel > issues to be > a concern. > > Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
I was just commenting on the discussion of coordinators setting up schemes such as in New England where half the repeaters are - input and half are + input. This can cause some interesting situations during the right band conditions from machines in other parts of the country. Glenn -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MCH Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 4:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening But, what would you realign it to? I believe PAVE PAWS covers the entire band. There is no spectrum left to put them. Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> Joe M. Glenn Shaw wrote: > > Its pretty much a moot point now in most of New Eng due to Pave Paws. > Maybe it would be a good time forNESMC to realign things with all > these 440 repeaters going QRT. > > Glenn N1GBY > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of MCH > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:12 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > I believe it was done to accomodate radios that would not TX well > below > 445 MHz. Those repeaters could use LIHO and TX well between 447 and 450 MHz. > > Yes, it's going to be 'fun' when the 12.5 kHz pairs come into use. > > Joe M. > > Bob Dengler wrote: > > > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm > > pairs every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either > > all + or all > > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues > > to be a concern. > > > > Bob NO6B > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: > 9/18/2007 > 11:53 AM > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 11:53 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
But, what would you realign it to? I believe PAVE PAWS covers the entire band. There is no spectrum left to put them. Maybe they can move up to 450-451 as long as they don't cause interference to users there... (a dig on the D-STAR repeaters operating in non-repeater bands due to 'no repeater band spectrum left and non-interference where they are operating'). ;-> Joe M. Glenn Shaw wrote: > > Its pretty much a moot point now in most of New Eng due to Pave Paws. Maybe > it would be a good time forNESMC to realign things with all these 440 > repeaters going QRT. > > Glenn N1GBY > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MCH > Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:12 PM > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > I believe it was done to accomodate radios that would not TX well below > 445 MHz. Those repeaters could use LIHO and TX well between 447 and 450 MHz. > > Yes, it's going to be 'fun' when the 12.5 kHz pairs come into use. > > Joe M. > > Bob Dengler wrote: > > > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm pairs > > every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either all + or > > all > > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues to > > be a concern. > > > > Bob NO6B > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG. > Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 > 11:53 AM > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Its pretty much a moot point now in most of New Eng due to Pave Paws. Maybe it would be a good time forNESMC to realign things with all these 440 repeaters going QRT. Glenn N1GBY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of MCH Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 2:12 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening I believe it was done to accomodate radios that would not TX well below 445 MHz. Those repeaters could use LIHO and TX well between 447 and 450 MHz. Yes, it's going to be 'fun' when the 12.5 kHz pairs come into use. Joe M. Bob Dengler wrote: > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm pairs > every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either all + or > all > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues to > be a concern. > > Bob NO6B > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1015 - Release Date: 9/18/2007 11:53 AM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
I believe it was done to accomodate radios that would not TX well below 445 MHz. Those repeaters could use LIHO and TX well between 447 and 450 MHz. Yes, it's going to be 'fun' when the 12.5 kHz pairs come into use. Joe M. Bob Dengler wrote: > > Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm pairs > every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either all + or all > - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues to be > a concern. > > Bob NO6B > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Does anyone know why the New England bandplan has inverted 70 cm pairs every 25 kHz (unlike the rest of the country, which is either all + or all - 5 MHz)? 25 kHz isn't close enough for any adjacent channel issues to be a concern. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Corey Dean N3FE wrote: > Hitting us here on VHF and UHF right now in North Central PA > > Corey N3FE > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > >> Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible here >> this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system locked up, >> and they all run tone squelch. >> >> Chuck >> WB2EDV Yup-temp inversion over the lake my guess. Niagra Falls area DFQ here in Cleveland mobile on the way in. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
I have to agree with you on that... Now back to my PL discussion... Just joking... However. I have locked out of scan all but two of the Western PA repeaters I can hear here at the home QTH that DONT run a PL. Corey N3FE On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > One of the "upside down" pairs on UHF are killing one of our machines in > Western New York. I wish that was never done. What a pain. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Corey Dean N3FE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:20 PM > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > > >> Hitting us here on VHF and UHF right now in North Central PA >> >> Corey N3FE >> >> On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: >> >>> Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible here >>> this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system locked >>> up, >>> and they all run tone squelch. >>> >>> Chuck >>> WB2EDV >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> This message has been scanned for viruses and >>> dangerous content by repeater.net, and is >>> believed to be clean. >>> >>> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by repeater.net, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Yahoo! Groups Links >> >> >> >> > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by repeater.net, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by repeater.net, and is believed to be clean.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
I guess the thing to do would be change your tone to a different one that hopefully is not used anywhere else. Of course that still would not help with the strong skip signal capturing the receiver over weaker local mobile and portable users. Your right also in that the upside down pair should be abolished and brought into conformation with the standard band plan. Glenn 73 -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:24 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening One of the "upside down" pairs on UHF are killing one of our machines in Western New York. I wish that was never done. What a pain. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: "Corey Dean N3FE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:n3fe%40repeater.net> > To: mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > Hitting us here on VHF and UHF right now in North Central PA > > Corey N3FE > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > >> Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible >> here this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system >> locked up, and they all run tone squelch. >> >> Chuck >> WB2EDV >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by >> repeater.net, and is believed to be clean. >> >> > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by repeater.net, and is > believed to be clean. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.485 / Virus Database: 269.13.22/1013 - Release Date: 9/17/2007 1:29 PM
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
One of the "upside down" pairs on UHF are killing one of our machines in Western New York. I wish that was never done. What a pain. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: "Corey Dean N3FE" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2007 10:20 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening > Hitting us here on VHF and UHF right now in North Central PA > > Corey N3FE > > On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > >> Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible here >> this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system locked >> up, >> and they all run tone squelch. >> >> Chuck >> WB2EDV >> >> >> >> >> -- >> This message has been scanned for viruses and >> dangerous content by repeater.net, and is >> believed to be clean. >> >> > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by repeater.net, and is > believed to be clean. > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Hitting us here on VHF and UHF right now in North Central PA Corey N3FE On Tue, 18 Sep 2007, Chuck Kelsey wrote: > Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible here > this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system locked up, > and they all run tone squelch. > > Chuck > WB2EDV > > > > > -- > This message has been scanned for viruses and > dangerous content by repeater.net, and is > believed to be clean. > > -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by repeater.net, and is believed to be clean.
[Repeater-Builder] UHF band opening
Anyone else having a pretty big UHF band opening? It's been terrible here this morning and evening. Got one of the repeaters in our system locked up, and they all run tone squelch. Chuck WB2EDV
