Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[scomind]

Hi Guys,
 
Thank you to all who responded to my inquiry, through the list and  
privately, for your insight. The tech committee now has more info on which to  
base its 
decision.
 
73,
Bob, WA9FBO



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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[G Shaw]

Hi Bob
You might also want to look at the new Icom commercial series FR-3000 VHF
and FR-4000 UHF repeaters.  I have heard good things about them so far and
they are running over 70db down on adjacent channel and intermod rejection.
They are designed for commercial business and public safety apps and do not
list Ham freq ranges, however they do tune to the ham pairs no problem.
They run 50 w continuous fan cooled but can have lower power selected if you
are running a sep. amp.  Price is competitive at around 1400-1500.

73
Glenn  N1GBY 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 10:14 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

Hi Joe,

>I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they should
work fine at the quiet one.


That's just it -- they don't work all that well at this mountaintop site
with literally hundreds of RF sources. Since we have an opportunity to sell
them, it seems like a good time for an upgrade. But if K is no better in
this situation than V, you're right, we're going down the wrong path.

This is a club that went from Micor vintage equipment that was showing its
age to Vertex and now has an opportunity to change once again. The bias is
toward new, low-maintenance gear rather than refurbished old commercial
gear.

73,
Bob

-Original Message-
From: MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood


I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 
because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 
should work fine at the quiet one.

Joe M.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF 
> site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if 
> that happens we'll need replacements.
> 
> Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods, 
> and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm 
> concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer 
> category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about 
> it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 73,
> Bob, WA9FBO
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? 
> Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and 
> calculators 
>
<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=htt
p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008
7:46 AM



Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages
<http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp0001> ! 

 

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.169 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1705 - Release Date: 10/3/2008
8:18 AM

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[Richard Deering]

HI Bob, Very long no talk to. I would go with the Kenwood repeater over the 
Vertex. But my first choice would be Motorola. That what us guys  in Wicsonsin 
use  73's  Bob.  From Rick WB9RJB 
--- On Thu, 10/2/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Thursday, October 2, 2008, 10:24 PM







Hi All,
 
My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF 
site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if that 
happens we'll need replacements.
 
Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods, and 
it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm concerned 
that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer category, and 
this decision must be based on technical data. How about it, RF gurus? If you 
have facts, please spill 'em.
 
Thanks!
 
73,
Bob, WA9FBO





Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? Check out 
WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and calculators. 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[MCH]

Something you might want to try (if you can quickly) is put a Micor (or 
similar) front end on the front end of the receiver.

Joe M.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi Joe,
> 
>  >I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
> 
> 
> That's just it -- they don't work all that well at this mountaintop site 
> with literally hundreds of RF sources. Since we have an opportunity to 
> sell them, it seems like a good time for an upgrade. But if K is no 
> better in this situation than V, you're right, we're going down the 
> wrong path.
> 
> This is a club that went from Micor vintage equipment that was showing 
> its age to Vertex and now has an opportunity to change once again. The 
> bias is toward new, low-maintenance gear rather than refurbished old 
> commercial gear.
> 
> 73,
> Bob
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 9:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood
> 
> I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>  > Hi All,
>  >
>  > My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF
>  > site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if
>  > that happens we'll need replacements.
>  >
>  > Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods,
>  > and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm
>  > concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer
>  > category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about
>  > it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
>  >
>  > Thanks!
>  >
>  > 73,
>  > Bob, WA9FBO
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?
>  > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
>  > calculators
>  > 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>.
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > --
>  >
>  > No virus found in this incoming message.
>  > Checked by AVG.
>  > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 
> 10/2/2008 7:46 AM
> 
> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages 
> <http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp0001>!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 
> 7:46 AM

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[John Barrett]

What sort of problems are you having with the system at the current 
site, and generally how much quieter is the new site. Was there any 
additional filtering or other adjustments made to get the gear 
functional at the old site that might be eliminated at the new site 
without sacrificing so much isolation/protection that you create new 
problems ?? And a dozen more questions I could ask :) What I'm looking 
for here is anything that would indicate that the current system could 
be made to perform better at the new site.

Given that any issues at the old site are primarily related to the 
problems of operating in a high-RF environment, and there is nothing 
particularly wrong with the current repeater electronics excepting mods 
made to deal with the high-RF, I personally would look at moving the 
gear as is and see how it performs at the new site, THEN decide if the 
gear needs to be replaced.

But you have a possible advantage in having a buyer for the old gear and 
the desire for new gear -- you can latch on to the new gear first, get 
it installed and tested at the new location, THEN take down the old 
site... minimal down time and no pressure to move the old gear to the 
new site fast and get it back on the air. The only question in my 
mind would be if the buyer wants the entire old system so you can do a 
total replacement without reusing parts from the old site.. if so, I'd 
be giving this option serious consideration.

So there is the trade-off -- downtime plus possible double work 
rebuilding the old repeater plus installing a new repeater if the old 
one does not perform well at the new site versus the up front expense of 
buying and installing a complete new system before taking the old one down.


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Hi Joe,
>
> >I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
>
>
> That's just it -- they don't work all that well at this mountaintop 
> site with literally hundreds of RF sources. Since we have an 
> opportunity to sell them, it seems like a good time for an upgrade. 
> But if K is no better in this situation than V, you're right, we're 
> going down the wrong path.
>
> This is a club that went from Micor vintage equipment that was showing 
> its age to Vertex and now has an opportunity to change once again. The 
> bias is toward new, low-maintenance gear rather than refurbished old 
> commercial gear.
>
> 73,
> Bob
>
> -Original Message-
> From: MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 9:50 pm
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood
>
> I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
>
> Joe M.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF
> > site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if
> > that happens we'll need replacements.
> >
> > Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods,
> > and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm
> > concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true 
> believer
> > category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about
> > it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob, WA9FBO
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?
> > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
> > calculators
> > 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 
> 10/2/2008 7:46 AM
> 
> Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages 
> <http://yellowpages.aol.com/?NCID=emlweusyelp0001>!
>  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[Joe Montierth]

Our club has 7 of the TK750 and two TK850 repeaters running on several 
different mountaintops, mostly medium RF intense. They have worked without any 
issues for a couple of years now. I don't know how they stack up against the 
vertex, but they seem well suited for what we are doing with them.

We replaced mostly Micor mobile conversions with these newer units, and have 
cut back on maint issues dramatically. Of course the Micors were around 30 
years old, too.

The Kenwoods are very nice, and easy to program and set up. They mount in a 
3.5" rack space, so thats good too. Output power is 35-40 watts, we set ours 
around 25-30 since they can grind for many hours continuously.

Joe

--- On Fri, 10/3/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 3, 2008, 8:13 AM











Hi Joe,



>I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 

because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 

should work fine at the quiet one.





That's just it -- they don't work all that well at this mountaintop site with 
literally hundreds of RF sources. Since we have an opportunity to sell them, it 
seems like a good time for an upgrade. But if K is no better in this situation 
than V, you're right, we're going down the wrong path.



This is a club that went from Micor vintage equipment that was showing its 
age to Vertex and now has an opportunity to change once again. The bias is 
toward new, low-maintenance gear rather than refurbished old commercial gear.



73,

Bob



-Original Message-

From: MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com

Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 9:50 pm

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood













I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 

because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 

should work fine at the quiet one.



Joe M.



[EMAIL PROTECTED] com wrote:

> Hi All,

> 

> My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF 

> site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if 

> that happens we'll need replacements.

> 

> Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods, 

> and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm 

> concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer 

> category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about 

> it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.

> 

> Thanks!

> 

> 73,

> Bob, WA9FBO

> 

> 

> 

>  - - - - - -

> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? 

> Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and 

> calculators 

> <http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 10075x120938 2257x1200540686/ aol?redir= 
> http://www. walletpop. com/?NCID= emlcntuswall 0001>.

> 

> 

> 

>  - - - - - -

> 

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG. 

> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 
> 7:46 AM



 






Find phone numbers fast with the New AOL Yellow Pages! 

  




 

















  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[scomind]

Hi Joe,

>I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 
because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 
should work fine at the quiet one.


That's just it --?they don't work all that well at?this mountaintop site with 
literally hundreds of RF sources. Since we have an opportunity to sell them, it 
seems like a good time for an upgrade. But if K is no better in this situation 
than V, you're right, we're going down the wrong path.

This is a club that went from Micor vintage equipment that was showing its 
age?to Vertex and now?has an opportunity to change once again. The bias is 
toward new, low-maintenance gear rather than refurbished old commercial gear.

73,
Bob

-Original Message-
From: MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, 2 Oct 2008 9:50 pm
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood






I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 
because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 
should work fine at the quiet one.

Joe M.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF 
> site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if 
> that happens we'll need replacements.
> 
> Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods, 
> and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm 
> concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer 
> category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about 
> it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> 73,
> Bob, WA9FBO
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? 
> Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and 
> calculators 
> <http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 
> 7:46 AM


 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[Mike Mullarkey]

You may take a spectrum analyzer to the site and see what the noise floor is
at. Get the spec for the repeater what the isolation needs to be and measure
what your antenna is seeing. Look at adding more band pass cavities to the
transmit and receive. Look at adding an isolator on the transmitter. These
mite be the steps to take before you want to move. Now if there is a site
that is quiet and you can get without all the politics I would go for it
providing it covers where you need the coverage.

 

Mike K7PFJ

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Barrett
Sent: Friday, October 03, 2008 12:53 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

 

my question exactly -- if the new site is quieter and you had the 
duplexer cranked back (insertion loss increased) to get better 
isolation, you may may even be able to open it up a little and get some 
additional receive sensitivity... other than that, why change what works 
unless there are significant issues with the old gear.

I'd be looking at it as a chance to go over the entire system and fix 
any minor problems like old/stressed coax, oxidized connections, etc.. 
make sure its going to work trouble free for another 3 years.

MCH wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
>
> Joe M.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:scomind%40aol.com> com <mailto:scomind%40aol.com>
wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF
> > site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if
> > that happens we'll need replacements.
> >
> > Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods,
> > and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm
> > concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true 
> believer
> > category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about
> > it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob, WA9FBO
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?
> > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
> > calculators
> > 
> <http://pr.atwola.
<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=htt
p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>
com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.
com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001 
> <http://pr.atwola.
<http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=htt
p://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>
com/promoclk/10075x1209382257x1200540686/aol?redir=http://www.walletpop.
com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001>>.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 
> 10/2/2008 7:46 AM
>
> 

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[John Barrett]

my question exactly -- if the new site is quieter and you had the 
duplexer cranked back (insertion loss increased) to get better 
isolation, you may may even be able to open it up a little and get some 
additional receive sensitivity... other than that, why change what works 
unless there are significant issues with the old gear.

I'd be looking at it as a chance to go over the entire system and fix 
any minor problems like old/stressed coax, oxidized connections, etc.. 
make sure its going to work trouble free for another 3 years.

MCH wrote:
>
> I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just
> because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they
> should work fine at the quiet one.
>
> Joe M.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF
> > site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if
> > that happens we'll need replacements.
> >
> > Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods,
> > and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm
> > concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true 
> believer
> > category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about
> > it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > 73,
> > Bob, WA9FBO
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges?
> > Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and
> > calculators
> > 
>   
> >.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG.
> > Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 
> 10/2/2008 7:46 AM
>
>  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[MCH]

I'm still trying to comprehend why you would need replacements just 
because a site is more quiet. If they work at the crowded site, they 
should work fine at the quiet one.

Joe M.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi All,
>  
> My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex repeaters at a high-RF 
> site. A possible deal would move them to a much quieter site, and if 
> that happens we'll need replacements.
>  
> Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for Kenwoods, 
> and it appears both brands are priced about the same. However, I'm 
> concerned that much of what has been posted falls into the true believer 
> category, and this decision must be based on technical data. How about 
> it, RF gurus? If you have facts, please spill 'em.
>  
> Thanks!
>  
> 73,
> Bob, WA9FBO
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial challenges? 
> Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and 
> calculators 
> .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG. 
> Version: 7.5.526 / Virus Database: 270.7.5/1703 - Release Date: 10/2/2008 
> 7:46 AM

[Repeater-Builder] Vertex vs. Kenwood

[scomind]

Hi All,
 
My club has some 3-year-old VHF and UHF Vertex  repeaters at a high-RF site. 
A possible deal would move them  to a much quieter site, and if that happens 
we'll  need replacements.
 
Members of this list have consistently shown a preference for  Kenwoods, and 
it appears both brands are priced about the  same. However, I'm concerned that 
much of what has been posted falls  into the true believer category, and this 
decision must be based  on technical data. How about it, RF gurus? If you 
have facts, please  spill 'em.
 
Thanks!
 
73,
Bob, WA9FBO



**Looking for simple solutions to your real-life financial 
challenges?  Check out WalletPop for the latest news and information, tips and 
calculators.  (http://www.walletpop.com/?NCID=emlcntuswall0001)