RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
Jed, The receivers are probable AstroTac receivers. Same as the Quantar, just packaged a little different. The receiver is just what you think. A receiver on the same RX frequency. The unit has a 2 wire and 4 wire output, but only uses the 2 wire for most applications. The unit puts out a tone when in non receive mode, this is called the guard tone. This guard tone goes away when a valid receive signal is received. The received signals audio is then sent out this 2 wire circuit. This circuit takes the received audio from the receiver to the voter and can be many different types, but normally is a phone circuit. The signals come in the voter thru the SQM modules, one for each receiver. This SQM module detects the guard tone and mutes the output to the voter command module. When the guard tone is absent the SQM module measures the signal to noise ratio of the received signal. If more than one signal is being received by the voter the command module picks the best signal and routes it to the output circuit of the voter. The command module is the brains to the unit. The simple explanation. I hope this helps. If you have any more question don't wait to ask. There are many on this list that can help. Charles Miller -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers Hey guys, Alright, i've just been giving the responsibility of being the head contact for a commercial repeater, and pretty much in charge of it. It's a damn good machine, a quantar. The one thing i'm not the best at is voting receivers. They only have 2 of them. Here are a few questions, how are they usually connected, i take it there isn't a lot to it, but just trying to learn more about voting receivers. Thanks, Jed Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
Jed: I have worked on voting systems from as little as 2 receivers to as many as 36 receivers in a public safety system. The best routing of the voted audio is by fiber optic cable, then microwave, then RF point to point link and lastly and the cheapest by telephone line. If you are using telephone line, be sure all lines are close together in frequency response and time delay characteristics. If not request the telephone company condition the circuits to be close as possible. Also, the newer voters have automatic line leveling circuits built in. These typically work by using the 1950 Hz no signal tone as a reference. Your efforts in adjusting the line send and receive levels is very important to the satisfactory operation of the complete system. Keep the knob twiddlers out! Fred W5VAY _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Charles Miller Sent: Tuesday, June 08, 2010 1:12 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers Jed, The receivers are probable AstroTac receivers. Same as the Quantar, just packaged a little different. The receiver is just what you think. A receiver on the same RX frequency. The unit has a 2 wire and 4 wire output, but only uses the 2 wire for most applications. The unit puts out a tone when in non receive mode, this is called the guard tone. This guard tone goes away when a valid receive signal is received. The received signals audio is then sent out this 2 wire circuit. This circuit takes the received audio from the receiver to the voter and can be many different types, but normally is a phone circuit. The signals come in the voter thru the SQM modules, one for each receiver. This SQM module detects the guard tone and mutes the output to the voter command module. When the guard tone is absent the SQM module measures the signal to noise ratio of the received signal. If more than one signal is being received by the voter the command module picks the best signal and routes it to the output circuit of the voter. The command module is the brains to the unit. The simple explanation. I hope this helps. If you have any more question don't wait to ask. There are many on this list that can help. Charles Miller -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Jed Barton Sent: Monday, June 07, 2010 11:31 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers Hey guys, Alright, i've just been giving the responsibility of being the head contact for a commercial repeater, and pretty much in charge of it. It's a damn good machine, a quantar. The one thing i'm not the best at is voting receivers. They only have 2 of them. Here are a few questions, how are they usually connected, i take it there isn't a lot to it, but just trying to learn more about voting receivers. Thanks, Jed Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] voting receivers
Hey guys, Alright, i've just been giving the responsibility of being the head contact for a commercial repeater, and pretty much in charge of it. It's a damn good machine, a quantar. The one thing i'm not the best at is voting receivers. They only have 2 of them. Here are a few questions, how are they usually connected, i take it there isn't a lot to it, but just trying to learn more about voting receivers. Thanks, Jed
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Joe, Did you mean offset when you said stability? I'd agree that 1/2, to a few Hertz would be annoying. In testing here, and as shown in practice, simple systems sound better if run at about 10 - 20 Hz offset. This makes the beating more tolerable without being able to be reproduced (very well) by the listening speaker. This is also why it is nice to have high pass filtering in the listening receivers. Radios with PL filters do nicely, something like the Com-Spec TS-64's PL filter works well. Unfortunately, many made for ham rigs don't have adequate (if any) high-pass filtering even if the radio has PL decode. Simulcast Systems are one area that benefit from Total HPF of a PL filter, where Notch Filtering would do no good for the Simulcast beats in the very low frequency range; 60 Hz. Of course, at 10 Hz offset, a few Hz. of instability at each transmitter could result in something very annoying; as the two drifting transmitters could come within a few Hz. of one another or worse yet, zero beat. I remember one particular instance many years ago where we did testing of two transmitters that were close together and run at 67 Hz offset. You could decode this PL tone when you heard both transmitter sites, but they didn't have HSO's and drifted enough that PL decoding was not reliable. Kevin Custer mch wrote: To work well, you will need more than 'a few Hz' stability. Even 1/2 Hz is very noticable and annoying. Joe M. Thomas Oliver wrote: You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved signal. I think it is worth a shot. tom n8ies Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Joe, Do you know who manufactured the systems? I will admit that the simulcast systems take more upkeep, we would go out and optimize our systems every 6 months to keep it working properly but it was old technology. Like I said the new thing is using the sync pulse from GPS (I think). The GPS time base technology came out after I got out of paging so I don't understand it completely. With the new C-2000 and C-NET controllers the phase and frequency are set automatically and can be updated for the control point. We had a lot of analog pagers the first 8 years until we had to start getting them off because of airtime problems and had little problems with overlaps. Equipment, Equipment, Equipment, Equipment! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of mch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:07 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I have two such systems near me - both on UHF. Come to think of it, there is one on 800, too. All analog voice simulcast (800 one trunked, but only two sites). It is definitely annoying to hear the heterodynes of all the TXs. Only one of the UHF systems doesn't do that much. I suspect it is the exception that is set up extremely well. Joe M. Daron Wilson wrote: I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Well, offset results from instability, but yes, offset is a better choice of wording. You could have perfect stability and still have an offset. Yes, the phase would have to be matched, too. 180 degrees off with perfect stability would not be good. ;- Joe M. Kevin Custer wrote: Joe, Did you mean offset when you said stability? I'd agree that 1/2, to a few Hertz would be annoying. In testing here, and as shown in practice, simple systems sound better if run at about 10 - 20 Hz offset. This makes the beating more tolerable without being able to be reproduced (very well) by the listening speaker. This is also why it is nice to have high pass filtering in the listening receivers. Radios with PL filters do nicely, something like the Com-Spec TS-64's PL filter works well. Unfortunately, many made for ham rigs don't have adequate (if any) high-pass filtering even if the radio has PL decode. Simulcast Systems are one area that benefit from Total HPF of a PL filter, where Notch Filtering would do no good for the Simulcast beats in the very low frequency range; 60 Hz. Of course, at 10 Hz offset, a few Hz. of instability at each transmitter could result in something very annoying; as the two drifting transmitters could come within a few Hz. of one another or worse yet, zero beat. I remember one particular instance many years ago where we did testing of two transmitters that were close together and run at 67 Hz offset. You could decode this PL tone when you heard both transmitter sites, but they didn't have HSO's and drifted enough that PL decoding was not reliable. Kevin Custer mch wrote: To work well, you will need more than 'a few Hz' stability. Even 1/2 Hz is very noticable and annoying. Joe M. Thomas Oliver wrote: You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved signal. I think it is worth a shot. tom n8ies Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I would consider one site in favor of a circularly polarized antenna system. Where that site should be placed is another issue. If you are thinking of your employeers located city, I know that one a tiny bit. Neil - WA6KLA Daron Wilson wrote: Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:35 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I would consider one site in favor of a circularly polarized antenna system. Where that site should be placed is another issue. If you are thinking of your employeers located city, I know that one a tiny bit. Neil - WA6KLA Daron Wilson wrote: Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY. Kenneth Buley Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2 Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6 Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
-Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !! IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY. Kenneth Buley Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2 Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6 Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Ken, Your email program is going wacky I'd hope it isn't being a responder... Kevin Buley, Kenneth L (GE Consumer Industrial) wrote: ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !! IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY. Kenneth Buley Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2 Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6 Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Daron, One other thing, if they are pine trees you would have a lot of problems at 900 MHz, not much at 150-170 MHz, at least we did not in Houston, Texas around the pine trees at 152 MHz. I am for Simulcast systems for this application if they are engineered and constructed properly. By the way, OK, I lied, two things. Our only 900 MHz system (40 + transmitters) started out as a Motorola PURC 5000 system, after too many years of problems it was changed out to a Glenayre. There is a long history between the company I worked for and Motorola, mainly because my boss, an ex-Motorola engineer had Bat Wings tattooed to the backside of his eyelids. It took the afore mentioned mess on our 900 MHz system to erase the wings! Don't get me wrong, Motorola made a lot of good equipment. Their pagers were the best in the world and you could get a response from the paging engineering team. On the other hand, when you take a mobile radio and try and modify it to a high stability simulcast transmitter it can't be done. At least Motorola could not. OK, guess it's three. I guess my history with Motorola has clouded my opinion enough I don't have a single Motorola Ham repeater on my tower. I have to admit, the Micor while over-engineered is a pretty good working radio, I just prefer other radios to build my repeaters out of. I have had Micors in the past but sold them last year at Dayton, still have one un-modified hi-band Micor I don't know what I am going to do with. I have five commercial Kenwood's two Johnson's and one GE Mastr II. The Johnson's and GE's are Ham repeaters. Next time I will try and be more forthcoming about my feelings! OK, smile already! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV ONCE MORE INTO THE BREACH !! IF YOU'RE READING THIS, YOU PROBABLY DON'T HAVE MUCH TO DO, COMPARED TO THOSE WHO ARE SO BUSY THEY CAN'T EVEN TAKE THE TIME TO RENAME THE SUBJECT LINE OR TO CROP OFF THE HALF-DOZEN OR SO REPLIES AND REPLIES TO THE REPLIES, OR (LIKE ME) SIMPLY LIKE TO FIND WAYS TO IRRITATE THE GENERAL PUBLIC. THIS IS OFF-TOPIC, BY THE WAY. REPLY, IF YOU LIKE, AS I OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE A LIFE OF MY OWN. HAVE A DIFFERENT DAY. Kenneth Buley Bullitt County EMA Deputy Director CD-2 Bullitt/Spencer Counties Red Cross ECRV Driver/Operator BC-6 Bullitt County ARES/RACES Coordinator KY4DES
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
John, What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used an outboard 10 mhz ovenized oscillator to set it up and it was tuned up as a special from the vendor on our requested freq. It is likely not 2ppm itself, but in a stable environment it may be ok without an ovenized reference. It can use about any reference that is compatible with the programming. It has no mod port as it is more designed to replace a crystal than replace the channel element. The RX performance of the station after the mod was slightly lower with this unit as opposed to my service monitor generating the 17.6125 in other tests. I guess that means it does exhibit some sideband noise which influenced operation but the spec sheet and printouts that come with it indicate pretty decent specs.. at least for a pll/vco. Not an answer for all but a very interesting development for ham use etc maybe an answer for some.. It also only does 1 freq at a time... Doug KD8B At 07:14 PM 4/28/2005, you wrote: Certainly would be nice to put one through it's paces on a repeater. Checking it for temperature stability and purity, etc. Obviously someone would need to have some decent test equipment to conduct the testing. Chuck WB2EDV ONCE MORE
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA, they used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal. For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuing my analog paging service in about a year. About once a year they call me tell me that they have a great new paging service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only better. I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides voice paging service I'll be happy to change. Then they tell me yes, it is exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD screen on the pager. Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have now would be a step down in quality. Then our discussion ends. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John, What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with a dc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125 reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a free running 70.45 RX L.O injection oscillator and is the clock reference for the TX exciter PLL. I used
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
About once a year they call me tell me that they have a great new paging service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only better. I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides voice paging service I'll be happy to change. Then they tell me yes, it is exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD screen on the pager. Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have now would be a step down in quality. Then our discussion ends. Almost, but not quite completely unlike what I asked for! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
well to do that correct I believe you will need a master oscillator per site and GPS compensation for path distance changes. that is for the transmitters. - Original Message - From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses at TNWEB LLC] --- [This E-mail scanned for viruses at TNWEB LLC] Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
As long as all the transmitters are ran in synchronisity you should not encounter very much multipath or speed of light error as the transmitters are so close to each other. But your performance may improve with spacing. In the world of FM who ever is 15dB greater wins due to the capture effect of the receiver. What I would do is find a nice synthisized radio to make the transmitters from, all three must match. I assume you will be using one link transmitter to talk to all three main sites, I would then build a high stability reference oscillator that would generate what ever frequency the PLL reference divides down to, and run it as a subcarrier with the audio information to the transmitters and recover the tone with sharp ass filters. This is the same approch that TFT uses in their Reciter system, only they use the 19kHz pilot tone and divide it to the reference. But this would only be fessable on radios that have multichip synthisizers and you can get at the 5kHz, 10kHz or 12.5kHz reference. But you could still use it by building a second PLL that would take the control tone and create a fake 10-20MHz for the radios original crystal or oscillator, which would also work on Times Up crystal exciters. On 5/3/05, Brent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well to do that correct I believe you will need a master oscillator per site and GPS compensation for path distance changes. that is for the transmitters. - Original Message - From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:46 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
The killer on these simulcast systems is in the overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few miles apart, you could see some real problems, since most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area fell into no man's land, then it might work OK. We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway around a simulcast system, it might be better. These systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep aligned. Read this article for some more insight, but remember that it was written by the president of Simulcast Solutions. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf Joe --- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I prefer a big,powerful,high central transmitter with sattelite receivers. Our city and county uses this type of system and it works very well over some tough terrain. I was never happy with any simulcast system,they all have areas of cancellation and fuzzyness. I'd use trunking before even considering simulcast. Thats my 2 cents worth along with 25 years experience. Joe Montierth wrote: The killer on these simulcast systems is in the overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few miles apart, you could see some real problems, since most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area fell into no man's land, then it might work OK. We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway around a simulcast system, it might be better. These systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep aligned. Read this article for some more insight, but remember that it was written by the president of Simulcast Solutions. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf Joe --- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
John, good for you! Of course Metrocall is now USA Mobility, I think!!! Never know from month to month! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA, they used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal. For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuing my analog paging service in about a year. About once a year they call me tell me that they have a great new paging service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only better. I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides voice paging service I'll be happy to change. Then they tell me yes, it is exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD screen on the pager. Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have now would be a step down in quality. Then our discussion ends. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John, What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug Bade Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Daron, Simulcast is the same in analog paging and two-way analog public safety. The only difference you will be using control links to feed the mobile transmit back through the system to the simulcast system. From the link output feeding all transmitters it's the same. A good system will sound pretty good, but like I said in the earlier post be careful who you buy the system from. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Daron Wilson Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:47 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved signal. I think it is worth a shot. tom n8ies [Original Message] From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Tom and group, There is several things you need for simulcasting. I will help if I can. 1-You need a super high stab oscillator, there is ways now to use one and use GPS signals as the time base. 2-Frequency offsets. 2 cycles per transmitter, working out from the link, a good simulcast engineer can help you here. 3-Phasing. The audio must reach each transmitter at the same time, the longest delay is at the closest transmitter to the link transmitter. 4-Audio levels. Audio levels must be set the same across the link to each of the transmitters as read on a good quality audio meter fed by the demod out from a service monitor. 5-Flat Audio. Audio must track the same from transmitter to transmitter from 300 to 3000 Hz within .2 of a dB. Read with same setup as #4. These are most of the things that will give you a good working system. If you use good equipment and set it up correctly it can work well. Suggestion, don't try and link the sites with telephone company land lines. Paul WB5IDM -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Thomas Oliver Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved signal. I think it is worth a shot. tom n8ies [Original Message] From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Depending the size of the area, maybe you could get away with voting with transmitter steering. The local police department does it here on 460.xxx with 3 sites and it works good. 99% of the problems with the system are related to the telco circuits coming back from the remote sites to the voter Jamey Wright -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Joe Montierth Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters The killer on these simulcast systems is in the overlap areas. If the transmitters are only a few miles apart, you could see some real problems, since most everywhere is an overlap area. A rule of thumb is that a simulcast system will never sound as good as a non-simulcast system in the overlap areas. If the transmitters were further apart, and the overlap area fell into no man's land, then it might work OK. We have one here, and in the overlap areas audio sounds funny or buzzy, etc. If there is anyway around a simulcast system, it might be better. These systems tend to be costly and hard to set up, and keep aligned. Read this article for some more insight, but remember that it was written by the president of Simulcast Solutions. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf Joe --- Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Yes, you are right!! USA Mobility is the current name. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 09:11:34 PM CDT From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John, good for you! Of course Metrocall is now USA Mobility, I think!!! Never know from month to month! Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:55 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I think the name of the paging company is using this month is Page USA, they used to be called MetroCall, before that they were Telepage Northwest, a Division of McCall Paging, before that they were MCI Airsignal. For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuing my analog paging service in about a year. About once a year they call me tell me that they have a great new paging service to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now only better. I tell them GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and provides voice paging service I'll be happy to change. Then they tell me yes, it is exactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather than listen to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCD screen on the pager. Then I say Gee, that really isn't exactly what I have now would be a step down in quality. Then our discussion ends. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDT From: Paul Finch [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John, What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
Read this article for some more insight, but remember that it was written by the president of Simulcast Solutions. http://www.simulcastsolutions.com/PDF/Simulcast.pdf Joe Here is another article written by a ham that has a bit more practical approach than others I have seen suggested: http://www.k7pp.com/art006.html The main site seems down, so I have included a link to a cached copy on Google: http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:dkZd236RQ1YJ:www.k7pp.com/art006.html+k7pp+simulcasthl=en The High Stability oscillators Peter is using are from 800 MHz Micors. These are the heated oscillators that have the FM modulator built in (how convenient). I purchased a few of these to do a Simulcast experiment, but I have too many irons in the fire right now. Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
And you are probably one ofthe only users left too. T.J.JOHN MACKEY [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think the name of the paging company is using this month is "Page USA", theyused to be called "MetroCall", before that they were "Telepage Northwest, aDivision of McCall Paging", before that they were "MCI Airsignal".For about 5 years they have been telling me that they will be dis-continuingmy analog paging service in about a year. About once a year they call me tell me that they "have a great new pagingservice to transfer me to which will be exactly like what I have now onlybetter". I tell them "GREAT, as long as it operates on 150 MHz and providesvoice paging service I'll be happy to change". Then they tell me "yes, it isexactly the same except you will be operating on 900 Mhz and rather thanlisten to a small speaker on your pager you will read the messages on a LCDscreen on the pager". Then I say "Gee, that really isn't exactly what I havenow would be a step down in quality". Then our discussion ends.-- Original Message --Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 03:59:50 PM CDTFrom: "Paul Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <REPEATER-BUILDER@YAHOOGROUPS.COM>Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters John, What carrier is still letting you get away with analog pager??? All of the big guys have gone satellite links which don't pass analog audio, I don't like anything but terrestrial links, guess I am to worried about that service call to the satellite!!! The satellite link has it's place but you can't beat the terrestrial link system for dependability. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:18 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I know that here in Portland 158.700 MHz is STILL occasionally used for Simulcast analog/digital paging. I know the analog part is still working every time my pager goes beep. I think I am just about the last person in town with a two-tone voice pager still receiving commercial service. I've had the same pager number for 20 years, but have been thru about 8 different pagers from Pageboy to up to Keynote!! -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 08:00:37 AM CDT From: "Buley, Kenneth L \(GE Consumer Industrial\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <REPEATER-BUILDER@YAHOOGROUPS.COM> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcasttransmitters -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Neil McKie Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:48 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, At last report 152.24 MHz is still used by Arch paging but is digital. You might contact Arch and ask if any analog paging is still used in your area. If you have trouble contacting them, please let me know. Neil - WA6KLA JOHN MACKEY wrote: Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: "Daron Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <REPEATER-BUILDER@YAHOOGROUPS.COM> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcasttransmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastalcommunity. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaterswithvoting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with talltrees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath whenwet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issueswhere I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this,please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems andnot real great audio for the mobile units based on their location,but Iwouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED]Daron-Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Doug BadeSent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:56 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] I'm stunned... It uses what looks like a JFET type VCO oscillator running with adc controlled/varicap pll on board. I used it to replace a 17.6125reference oscillator on a synthesized 900 station. The output is multiplied in this case and used to sync lock a fre
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
I have two such systems near me - both on UHF. Come to think of it, there is one on 800, too. All analog voice simulcast (800 one trunked, but only two sites). It is definitely annoying to hear the heterodynes of all the TXs. Only one of the UHF systems doesn't do that much. I suspect it is the exception that is set up extremely well. Joe M. Daron Wilson wrote: I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters
To work well, you will need more than 'a few Hz' stability. Even 1/2 Hz is very noticable and annoying. Joe M. Thomas Oliver wrote: You will need the three transmitters to have uhso (high stab oscilators) to keep them within a few hz of each other, you will have to delay the audio so all three transmitters transmit the audio at the same time. I do not know what effect the multipath from buildings will have on the recieved signal. I think it is worth a shot. tom n8ies [Original Message] From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: 5/3/2005 8:47:55 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters I guess I wasn't clear enough. I'm familiar with the simulcast paging, this is not paging. This is public safety police analog repeaters. The proposal is to put three in a row down the town, about 3-4 miles apart, voting receivers at the two south ones linked back to the 'main' site via UHF control links and a voting controller there. So, they would vote the best receiver and simulcast the output of all three repeaters. Not paging, I know how paging works, I have a VHF pager on a simulcast system. What I'm looking for is somone who has seen an installation like this or has experience with it. Personally, I think it will multipath like crazy and the recovered audio will be crappy. But, if it is a good thing as suggested in the recommendation, there must be operating systems out there to listen to. Thanks, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Daron -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Finch Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:07 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron, I will tell you what I know about analog simulcast systems. There is basically two manufactures of this equipment, Motorola and Quintron/Glenayre. If you want it to be a fairly good sounding system stay away from Motorola equipment. I worked in paging back when there was still a lot of analog pagers on the air, half our systems were Motorola, the other half Quintron. We finally gave up on the Motorola systems running analog, you could set them one day and they may work OK but the next day they would not. There is a problem how the built their FSK modulators, they were not matched like Quintron's. The Quintron modulators were matched to .2 of a dB between them, Motorola did no matching. The trick that will help the most with either system is; try and keep the overlaps where people will not be using the system. There is other problems with Motorola's simulcast system but that is what kept them from having a good (as possible) running simulcast system. There is still a company in Quincy Il. that sells the Quintron (now Glenayre) line, their company name is ISC Technologies. They have the manufacturing rights for most of the Quintron/Glenayre line or they may have some used equipment available. Paul -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of JOHN MACKEY Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 2:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Daron- Most all your 150 MHz or 900 MHz paging systems are going to be simulcast. If there are any 150 MHz analog paging systems around, try listening to them. -- Original Message -- Received: Tue, 03 May 2005 01:26:06 AM CDT From: Daron Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] voting receivers with simulcast transmitters Hello Folks, I'm looking over a radio study done by consultants for our small coastal community. The recommendation includes three simulcast repeaters with voting receivers. We live on the coast, the terrain is covered with tall trees that make wonderful reflectors and contribute tons of multipath when wet, and it rains plenty. I can't think of any place with terrain issues where I have seen a simulcast VHF repeater system built out. If you have any references (for or against) a simulcast system like this, please drop me a note. I suspect a fair amount of multipath problems and not real great audio for the mobile units based on their location, but I wouldn't be able to prove it until the thing got installed. Ideas? Thanks, Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
