Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: The lock-shut-through-its-own-contacts latching relay uses power as long as it is activated. As another gentleman pointed out, the magnetic latching relay only uses power when the coil is activated (i.e. a pulse to change the state of the relay). I would want to use the magnetic latching type, since I see no sense in wasting solar power if the package is shut down. The 12v circuit breaker with the shunt trip coil sounds like the most feasible, and besides it's designed exactly for the job. I'm researching that, as I wasn't aware of these devices. Sounds interesting. So far I haven't found a source of suitably rated units, but I haven't had much time to devote to it. dropping a dead short (even momentary) across the battery is not going to do it any good. Good point. You could use an old IMTS horn honker decoder to trigger the trip coil. Do you recall how much power they consume? I'm leaning toward the Selectone ST-809B for its negligible power consumption. My working theory is that (within reason) it's cheaper to spend money on low power consumption electronics than to buy more solar panels. :) Paul N1BUG
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
Didn't our own Bob WA1MIK write up such a kill device for his 900 machine not long ago at the Repeater-Builder site? Maybe this: http://www.repeater-builder.com/motorola/msf/dtmf-ctrlr.html Why reinvent the wheel? Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Friday, April 17, 2009 1:00 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control At 05:33 PM 04/16/09, you wrote: Mike, Paul, Mike, Martin, and others... Thanks for the ideas. I will try out a couple of them and then make a decision on exactly what method to go with. I had not thought of using a latching relay. The lock-shut-through-its-own-contacts latching relay uses power as long as it is activated. As another gentleman pointed out, the magnetic latching relay only uses power when the coil is activated (i.e. a pulse to change the state of the relay). The idea of a husky relay or maybe a beefy SCR to short the supply on the inboard side of a fuse or circuit breaker did occur to my feeble mind, but I wanted see what others could come up with for ideas. The 12v circuit breaker with the shunt trip coil sounds like the most feasible, and besides it's designed exactly for the job. It beats buying fuses, and dropping a dead short (even momentary) across the battery is not going to do it any good. You could use an old IMTS horn honker decoder to trigger the trip coil. That was a box about the size of three thicknesses of Readers Digest that was a multidigit DTMF decoder that you programmed with either DIP switches or jumpers. You feed it +12 and receiver audio and it gives you dry relay contacts. When it decoded 7 digits it pulled in a relay that honked the vehicle horn and flashed the headlights. The bulldozer operator or whomever would hear the horn honk and go answer the mobile phone. The advantage of using a separate unit is that no matter what happens to the repeater controller a specific DTMF sequence on a specific receiver will kill the system. Paul N1BUG Mike WA6ILQ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
RAMSEY KITS has a unit that is supposed to work from commands via your telephone touch pad. It's about $39. You call the unit up, touch the phone keys, and the dtmf commands can turn on and off devices plugged into it. I wonder could this be converted to work on the input of a recvr, accessed by PL tone, etc to turn ON and OFF a power supply, controller, etc? If you find out.LET ME KNOW. '73, Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kelley N1BUG Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control I am also working toward a multiple receiver voted system and have a question. I was reading http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/votingcomparators.html and wondering about how to implement a site suicide command where power is disconnected from the entire remote package requiring a trip to the site to bring it back to life. I definitely want some way to kill an entire package at a remote site. Assume a remote receiver at a location that is extremely difficult to access in winter, and solar power so current drain needs to be kept as low as possible. Any suggestions on how to implement a suicide command for such a remote package? I can think of a couple ways to do it but usually someone here has better ideas than mine! 73, Paul N1BUG __ NOD32 4013 (20090416) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
RAMSEY KITS has a unit that is supposed to work from commands via your telephone touch pad. It’s about $39. You call the unit up, touch the phone keys, and the dtmf commands can turn on and off devices plugged into it. I wonder could this be converted to work on the input of a recvr, accessed by PL tone, etc to turn ON and OFF a power supply, controller, etc? If you find out…LET ME KNOW. ’73, Mike I'm not familiar with that specific kit, but I suspect it could be interfaced to receiver audio output instead of a phone line. It could probably be used for what you want. There are other DTMF decoder units around also. For my application I'm wondering about how to interface the DTMF decoder output to permanently kill power to a site. I'm thinking I want to have it do something like deliberately blow a fuse... but maybe there are better ways to handle it. Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:repeater-builder-dig...@yahoogroups.com mailto:repeater-builder-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: repeater-builder-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
At 02:27 PM 04/16/09, you wrote: I am also working toward a multiple receiver voted system and have a question. I was reading http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/votingcomparators.html and wondering about how to implement a site suicide command where power is disconnected from the entire remote package requiring a trip to the site to bring it back to life. I definitely want some way to kill an entire package at a remote site. The suicide command that I used was a relay that locked itself on through it's own contacts. The normally closed contacts supplied AC power the equipment power strip in the cabinet. When you functioned the suicide command, the relay pulled in, locked itself shut, and the rack was dead. A neon light was wired across the relay coil and was visible from the front panel to tell us why the rack was dead. Assume a remote receiver at a location that is extremely difficult to access in winter, and solar power so current drain needs to be kept as low as possible. Any suggestions on how to implement a suicide command for such a remote package? I can think of a couple ways to do it but usually someone here has better ideas than mine! A two coil 12v mag latch relay? One pushbutton for on, a second for off, and the suicide command is in parallel with the off button? Or maybe have the DTMF decoder operate a husky-contact relay that drops a short across the DC power source and that pops the master DC circuit breaker (a 12v breaker). You could use a fuse, but 12v breakers are available (one source is the mechanic at the local community airstrip hangars - they frequently have an old fuselage or two out back, and if you ask real nice you can scavenge a breaker or two). 73, Paul N1BUG Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
Paul, A mechanical latching relay uses no power except when changing state, and could be used to drop the power to the whole package. Using some sort of crowbar to intentionally blow a fuse introduces new and unpleasant failure modes. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Paul Kelley N1BUG To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 3:27 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control ...Any suggestions on how to implement a suicide command for such a remote package? I can think of a couple ways to do it but usually someone here has better ideas than mine! .
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
I don't know WHAT the hell this guy was thinking.? ( ME ) I must have been thinking of something else entirely.my bad. - Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Michael Ryan Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:32 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control RAMSEY KITS has a unit that is supposed to work from commands via your telephone touch pad. It's about $39. You call the unit up, touch the phone keys, and the dtmf commands can turn on and off devices plugged into it. I wonder could this be converted to work on the input of a recvr, accessed by PL tone, etc to turn ON and OFF a power supply, controller, etc? If you find out.LET ME KNOW. '73, Mike From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Kelley N1BUG Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 5:27 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control I am also working toward a multiple receiver voted system and have a question. I was reading http://www.repeater-builder.com/tech-info/votingcomparators.html and wondering about how to implement a site suicide command where power is disconnected from the entire remote package requiring a trip to the site to bring it back to life. I definitely want some way to kill an entire package at a remote site. Assume a remote receiver at a location that is extremely difficult to access in winter, and solar power so current drain needs to be kept as low as possible. Any suggestions on how to implement a suicide command for such a remote package? I can think of a couple ways to do it but usually someone here has better ideas than mine! 73, Paul N1BUG __ NOD32 4013 (20090416) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __ NOD32 4013 (20090416) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Remote receiver suicide control
Mike, Paul, Mike, Martin, and others... Thanks for the ideas. I will try out a couple of them and then make a decision on exactly what method to go with. I had not thought of using a latching relay. The idea of a husky relay or maybe a beefy SCR to short the supply on the inboard side of a fuse or circuit breaker did occur to my feeble mind, but I wanted see what others could come up with for ideas. Paul N1BUG
