Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Jim Cicirello wrote: Hi Kevin: To answer your question: I am running a Cat-200 Controller. Okay, It has separate inputs for COS and PL logic. The switch I was referring to is the PL Disable on the Motorola Card. That switch likely does nothing in your case. Since I converted your station to a repeater, I would have cut the PL logic line from the stock decoder to the Audio Squelch module to isolate the COS and PL logic signals. In this case, your Micor no longer operates stock, so the others that have replied with stock operation; that information doesn't pertain to you. This was done as I knew your machine was going to be used as a ham repeater, and Reverse Burst wasn't available. This mod is necessary to allow AND Squelch to be utilized by the controller. Since you have a controller to manage the state of access, the PL Disable Switch (on the Station Control Module) (if working) would really only be controlling the local speaker. This is the repeater you converted for me and I am getting ready to put in the tone reed. It is my understanding that when I do that, it will go to CTCSS, until I switch the PL Disable off, then it will go to CSQ. That would be the case if your station was stock, but since Reverse Burst is usually not available in the ham circles, it had to be done differently. My conversion for the Micor to an amateur repeater makes the station operate in carrier squelch all the time regardless of the setting of the PL Disable Switch. Realize that when you run an outboard repeater controller that has both COS and PL inputs, those signals (from the Micor) need separated and run to the controller independently. Also, since the controller will be putting the repeater in and out of PL, the station no longer needs to have that function, and it is disabled to eliminate confusion. Step 7 of the following page outlines that: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/station-a-s.html I am looking for the best way to use both CTCSS and CSQ and control it thru the Cat-200 with Tones. Simple. Hook the logic available from J2 pin 10 (active high) to the PL logic input on your controller. Use the controller to set the access state of the repeater. The repeater will operate just like it does now, and the local speaker will be active without regard to the way any switches are set or if PL is being used or not. Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Thanks Kevin for the information. You ran the CTCSS Line out for me, active high, so all I have to do is install the reed and board in the Micor and hook the line to the controller. As always, thanks to you and the group. 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. -Original Message- From: Kevin Custer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, February 03, 2005 1:30 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers Jim Cicirello wrote: Hi Kevin: To answer your question: I am running a Cat-200 Controller. Okay, It has separate inputs for COS and PL logic. The switch I was referring to is the PL Disable on the Motorola Card. That switch likely does nothing in your case. Since I converted your station to a repeater, I would have cut the PL logic line from the stock decoder to the Audio Squelch module to isolate the COS and PL logic signals. In this case, your Micor no longer operates stock, so the others that have replied with stock operation; that information doesn't pertain to you. This was done as I knew your machine was going to be used as a ham repeater, and Reverse Burst wasn't available. This mod is necessary to allow AND Squelch to be utilized by the controller. Since you have a controller to manage the state of access, the PL Disable Switch (on the Station Control Module) (if working) would really only be controlling the local speaker. This is the repeater you converted for me and I am getting ready to put in the tone reed. It is my understanding that when I do that, it will go to CTCSS, until I switch the PL Disable off, then it will go to CSQ. That would be the case if your station was stock, but since Reverse Burst is usually not available in the ham circles, it had to be done differently. My conversion for the Micor to an amateur repeater makes the station operate in carrier squelch all the time regardless of the setting of the PL Disable Switch. Realize that when you run an outboard repeater controller that has both COS and PL inputs, those signals (from the Micor) need separated and run to the controller independently. Also, since the controller will be putting the repeater in and out of PL, the station no longer needs to have that function, and it is disabled to eliminate confusion. Step 7 of the following page outlines that: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/station-a-s.html I am looking for the best way to use both CTCSS and CSQ and control it thru the Cat-200 with Tones. Simple. Hook the logic available from J2 pin 10 (active high) to the PL logic input on your controller. Use the controller to set the access state of the repeater. The repeater will operate just like it does now, and the local speaker will be active without regard to the way any switches are set or if PL is being used or not. Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Kevin Custer wrote: This is the repeater you converted for me and I am getting ready to put in the tone reed. It is my understanding that when I do that, it will go to CTCSS, until I switch the PL Disable off, then it will go to CSQ. That would be the case if your station was stock, but since Reverse Burst is usually not available in the ham circles, it had to be done differently. I like your mod, Kevin (it's REALLY close to the way I did mine before I found this group!), but I'm not quite sure what reverse burst has to do with this. I find if the controller is decent, RB still works as it should on repeat audio when in PL, which is all that matters. (In fact, I prefer the local speaker to either be carrier squelch all the time, or have audio from the controller out. I have a jumper to select between the two. I should put a switch in though...) I clipped the jumper from the decoder to the sq chip because I wasn't getting the good short Micor squelch with it in, even on a CSQ input. Plus of course there was interaction as well. So for the Micor squelch to work the way it was really intended, and for repeat audio to sound that way, I clipped that jumper. FWIW-my box started life as a single-user UHF repeater, unified chassis, with I think either DC or tone remote. When I got it, the only card it had was the station control card...also I'm running an S-Com 6K. As a comment to Jim and anyone else, I used the PL disable switch and the transistor associated with it (on the station control card) as the F1 channel element switch. That way I have a postive tx disable on the front panel-with an idiot light that comes on when disabled. The switch grounds the base of the transistor, and keeps the F1 transmit element from coming on. -- Jim Barbour WD8CHL Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Hi Jim, Kevin Custer wrote: That would be the case if your station was "stock", but since Reverse Burst is usually not available in the ham circles, it had to be done differently. Jim B. wrote: I'm not quite sure what reverse burst has to do with this. I find if the controller is decent, RB still works as it should on repeat audio when in PL, which is all that matters. I clipped the jumper from the decoder to the sq chip because I wasn't getting the good short Micor squelch with it in, even on a CSQ input. The part of the mod in question is the fact that logic from the OEM PL decoder goes to the Micor Squelch Chip on the AS board and when the receiver is decoding PL, forces the squelch open *without regard* to the carrier squelch setting. Since ham radios don't have reverse burst, cutting this logic line separates the COS and PL signals so they operate independently; which removes the squelch burst at the end of a transmission when a user is encoding PL without RB. This is done by cutting jumper JU204 on the AS board; as you have found. So, you see, that's what reverse burst has to do with it, because if all ham rigs had reverse burst, we wouldn't have to cut JU204. As a comment to Jim and anyone else, I used the PL disable switch and the transistor associated with it (on the station control card) as the F1 channel element switch. That way I have a positive tx disable on the front panel-with an idiot light that comes on when disabled. The switch grounds the base of the transistor, and keeps the F1 transmit element from coming on. That's one way of doing it, however there are times where we modify Stations and want to use the PL Disable switch as intended; so I do it a bit differently, to accomplish the same result: http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/stationcontrol.html Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Jim Cicirello wrote: Good Morning to the group: Can someone who may have been there and done that tell me the best way to operate both CTCSS and CSQ Decode from a Micor Base converted into a repeater? Let me clarify what I would like to do..I would like to be able to touch tone in CTCSS Decode when needed. The majority of the time I want to run CSQ. What controller are you running, or are you using stock control cards? In studying the manual it appears that CTCSS is active high and CSQ is active low. Correct, but the COS logic can be changed to Active High: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pix/cosswitch.gif I thought of converting them to the same active COR state and them just switching the COR input to the controller, but is CSQ present when the CTCSS switch is in the decode position? Again, what piece of equipment are we talking about when you refer to the CTCSS switch? A stock card or something else? Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
Hi Kevin: To answer your question: I am running a Cat-200 Controller. The switch I was referring to is the PL Disable on the Motorola Card. This is the repeater you converted for me and I am getting ready to put in the tone reed. It is my understanding that when I do that, it will go to CTCSS, until I switch the PL Disable off, then it will go to CSQ. I am looking for the best way to use both CTCSS and CSQ and control it thru the Cat-200 with Tones. Thanks JIM -Original Message- From: Kevin Custer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 1:09 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers Jim Cicirello wrote: Good Morning to the group: Can someone who may have been there and done that tell me the best way to operate both CTCSS and CSQ Decode from a Micor Base converted into a repeater? Let me clarify what I would like to do...I would like to be able to touch tone in CTCSS Decode when needed. The majority of the time I want to run CSQ. What controller are you running, or are you using stock control cards? In studying the manual it appears that CTCSS is active high and CSQ is active low. Correct, but the COS logic can be changed to Active High: http://www.repeater-builder.com/pix/cosswitch.gif I thought of converting them to the same active COR state and them just switching the COR input to the controller, but is CSQ present when the CTCSS switch is in the decode position? Again, what piece of equipment are we talking about when you refer to the CTCSS switch? A stock card or something else? Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers
First off, does your controller have separate COR and PL inputs? Just so you're clear on how Micor PL and noise squelch work, here's a little refresher. As configured stock, on a Micor, when PL is decoded, it will override the noise squelch. In other words, if it sees PL, the squelch will open, no matter how noisy the signal is or how tight you have the squelch set to. Likewise, it will open the squelch whether you have the PL disable turned on or off. On a stock Micor, if PL's there, the squelch opens no matter what. With PL disable turned on, carrier squelch OR PL decode will open the receive audio paths. With PL disable turned off, PL decode must be present to open the receive audio paths, and they won't close until PL drops out regardless of the squelch setting. Generally this is not what you want in a typical amateur installation when you want take advantage of the legendary (?) Micor squelch action AND be able to use the PL decoder. Generally speaking, when using a Micor in amateur service, if you want PL decode, what you're really looking for is COR AND PL, with COR operating independently of PL within the Micor station. In other words, the COR and PL should be AND'ed together externally (either via circuitry, or by using a controller that has an AND squelch access mode with separate PL and COR inputs. There is a Micor AND squelch modification, but with modern controllers, it's usually best to let the controller do the work which gives you the flexibility of going into COR-only or COR-and-PL modes by DTMF control. To start off, you can isolate the PL decode from the squelch circuit by cutting a jumper on the audio/squelch card. I don't have a manual in front of me, but if you look at where the PL indicate line comes from the PL decoder into the last squelch IC, you want to open the circuit there. You also want to leave PL disabled, i.e. don't ground the PL disable line. This allows the noise squelch to operate. After doing the above, you will have an independent PL indicate line (+9.6 when decoding, high-Z when not decoding). You may need to lift the pull-up in your controller, and/or add a pull-down, to deal with those logic levels. The COR on the Micor can be taken off the audio/squelch board. It, too, should be active-high. Depending on what other cards are in the shelf, it usually idles around 3 or 4 volts when the squelch is open, but you don't want to try to source any current from it. When the squelch is closed, it sinks current. For most controllers, just putting a diode in series (cathode towards Micor) should work if there is a pullup on the controller's COR line built in. There can be other COR-like lines in a Micor station, but it depends on what cards you have installed. Where are you taking COR from presently? --- Jeff -- Jeff DePolo WN3A Broadcast and Communications Consultant -Original Message- From: Jim Cicirello [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:25 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Select CTCSS and CSQ on Micor Receivers Good Morning to the group: Can someone who may have been there and done that tell me the best way to operate both CTCSS and CSQ Decode from a Micor Base converted into a repeater? Let me clarify what I would like to do..I would like to be able to touch tone in CTCSS Decode when needed. The majority of the time I want to run CSQ. In studying the manual it appears that CTCSS is active high and CSQ is active low. I thought of converting them to the same active COR state and them just switching the COR input to the controller, but is CSQ present when the CTCSS switch is in the decode position? I have to believe this has been done by some of you, so I would appreciate your input. Thanks in advance guys! 73 JIM KA2AJH Wellsville, N.Y. Yahoo! Groups Links -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.3 - Release Date: 1/31/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
