Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
Paul Plack wrote: I have a Kenwood TM-642 (with modules for 2m, 6m and 220) which was obtained years ago for the purpose of setting up a remote base off a 440 repeater I had in Orlando FL. I realized when I looked at the schematic that all the funtions of the radio which could be controlled from the mic's keypad, including direct frequency entry, were sent to the radio as DTMF while PTT was NOT active.. I can confirm that the TM-732A also does this, if that helps anyone. I'm not sure that EVERY single function of the rig is possible, though. (For example, any function that REQUIRES the use of a front panel button, may not have an equivalent on the mic. But most did.) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
Nate, That's one reason I never built the interface. The mic has a couple user-programmable macro keys, but those don't use DTMF. They're hardwired. That in inself was not a big deal, still easy to interface through the mic connector, but we would have needed more of them to handle all the needed functions normally accessed by separate front-panel switches, especially on three bands. We actually thought about brewing a separate DTMF-accessible board just to interface the front-panel buttons, but by that time we were all glassing over... Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 12:17 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil... Paul Plack wrote: I have a Kenwood TM-642 (with modules for 2m, 6m and 220) which was obtained years ago for the purpose of setting up a remote base off a 440 repeater I had in Orlando FL. I realized when I looked at the schematic that all the funtions of the radio which could be controlled from the mic's keypad, including direct frequency entry, were sent to the radio as DTMF while PTT was NOT active.. I can confirm that the TM-732A also does this, if that helps anyone. I'm not sure that EVERY single function of the rig is possible, though. (For example, any function that REQUIRES the use of a front panel button, may not have an equivalent on the mic. But most did.) Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
At 5/7/2008 11:17, you wrote: Paul Plack wrote: I have a Kenwood TM-642 (with modules for 2m, 6m and 220) which was obtained years ago for the purpose of setting up a remote base off a 440 repeater I had in Orlando FL. I realized when I looked at the schematic that all the funtions of the radio which could be controlled from the mic's keypad, including direct frequency entry, were sent to the radio as DTMF while PTT was NOT active.. I can confirm that the TM-732A also does this, if that helps anyone. I'm not sure that EVERY single function of the rig is possible, though. (For example, any function that REQUIRES the use of a front panel button, may not have an equivalent on the mic. But most did.) That's usually the show-stopper. The Alinco DR135/235/435s can be mostly controlled from the microphone buttons, but there is no way to change CTCSS tones. At the moment I'm thinking about an interface for the Yaesu FT-8500, as everything can be controlled from the PCC interface, which is fully documented in the manual. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
At 5/6/2008 21:06, you wrote: Hi Guys, Woohoo, the Doug Hall Rosetta Stone! Thanks, Skip. We need to go back a little deeper in history... I think the format you have is the data going from the controller to the RBI-1. Doug H based it on the dominant format at the time, which was the format used by ACC to drive their frequency control shift register boards (designed for thumbwheel HTs). Doug made his input format available to repeater controller manufacturers in his generic document so we all could make our controllers RBI-1-compatible. We added that feature to our 7K in V2.01. It's not that big a secret. Well, it's enough of a secret that it can't be found on the web. After several months of asking around, Skip's posting of the protocol is the first I've ever seen of it. The output format of the RBI-1, on the other rhand, is the format Kenwood used to control a group of radios in the trunk from a handset (was it called the RC-10? RC-20?) in the driver's compartment. His box was a protocol converter that took the 48- or 56-bit stream from the controller and make Kenwood-speak out of it. Wasn't trivial at the time. Right. That will be the real challenge if I (or anyone else) is going to make a replacement for the RBI-1, as that protocol is going to be a lot harder to find. Perhaps when I finally get one I'll sniff the data going between the RBI=1 Kenwood radio see if I can make sense of it (Looking at the Kenwood service manual I can tell it's SPI, similar to the data stream running between the controller RBI-1 except there is a 2nd SPI data line for data going back from the radio to the remote interface. I assume this is used for the COS indicator possibly who knows what else??? Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
I believe DTMF tones come out of the RBI-1 to control the kenwood radios. I don't remember for sure. tom - Original Message - From: To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 5/7/2008 12:06:23 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil... Hi Guys, Woohoo, the Doug Hall Rosetta Stone! Thanks, Skip. We need to go back a little deeper in history... I think the format you have is the data going from the controller to the RBI-1. Doug H based it on the dominant format at the time, which was the format used by ACC to drive their frequency control shift register boards (designed for thumbwheel HTs). Doug made his input format available to repeater controller manufacturers in his generic document so we all could make our controllers RBI-1-compatible. We added that feature to our 7K in V2.01. It's not that big a secret. The output format of the RBI-1, on the other rhand, is the format Kenwood used to control a group of radios in the trunk from a handset (was it called the RC-10? RC-20?) in the driver's compartment. His box was a protocol converter that took the 48- or 56-bit stream from the controller and make Kenwood-speak out of it. Wasn't trivial at the time. 73, Bob, WA9FBO S-COM, LLC Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil...
I have a Kenwood TM-642 (with modules for 2m, 6m and 220) which was obtained years ago for the purpose of setting up a remote base off a 440 repeater I had in Orlando FL. I realized when I looked at the schematic that all the funtions of the radio which could be controlled from the mic's keypad, including direct frequency entry, were sent to the radio as DTMF while PTT was NOT active.. All we had to do was program macros into the 7K to spit out DTMF streams with the PTT disabled, and use three logic outputs for macro buttons normally found on the mic, and we were almost there. The only part that was going to be tough was switching bands, which Kenwood did with a toggle that would require being forced into some known state, then bandswitched with the appropriate number of logic output pulses. We never got it done before I left town, and the guys who took over the repeater eventually built up a PIC into a very nice interface to convert DTMF (either directly entered by a user or spit from a macro) to Icom-speak. It's all about free time! 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Thomas Oliver To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 10:13 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil... I believe DTMF tones come out of the RBI-1 to control the kenwood radios. I don't remember for sure. tom - Original Message - From: To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: 5/7/2008 12:06:23 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil... Hi Guys, Woohoo, the Doug Hall Rosetta Stone! Thanks, Skip. We need to go back a little deeper in history... I think the format you have is the data going from the controller to the RBI-1. Doug H based it on the dominant format at the time, which was the format used by ACC to drive their frequency control shift register boards (designed for thumbwheel HTs). Doug made his input format available to repeater controller manufacturers in his generic document so we all could make our controllers RBI-1-compatible. We added that feature to our 7K in V2.01. It's not that big a secret. The output format of the RBI-1, on the other rhand, is the format Kenwood used to control a group of radios in the trunk from a handset (was it called the RC-10? RC-20?) in the driver's compartment. His box was a protocol converter that took the 48- or 56-bit stream from the controller and make Kenwood-speak out of it. Wasn't trivial at the time. 73, Bob, WA9FBO S-COM, LLC Wondering what's for Dinner Tonight? Get new twists on family favorites at AOL Food.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to buil
Bob, Yes, a simple 8 bitter, even a PIC could make a DTMF, RS232, or about anything else except maybe Ethernet or 1553 put out the bit stream and read any rig on the market. For Ethernet or 1553 ($1000/port), etc an off the shelf interface could be used. It could also read the weather stations, packet, PSK31, etc etc etc. This is garage low level electronics that is old 30 year old technology. However, setting down and doing it can be a chore especially if the rigs are taking in data in different formats such as the ICOMs of old that grouped digits together where some sent individuality. Also bet one could come up with 50 formats that has been used in rigs over the last 20 years. Obviously HRD was a garage project and doable. Also leading command data. Again very old and really easy to do, but takes hours to do. Most even 30 year MPUs have built in serial ports with multi-speed programmable serial ports and most rigs use a RS232 port. All is simple, just doing it. Of course building a 5000 sq ft house is doable, old tech, etc just one has to do. This is the issue. Even allowing for remotely selecting with say DTMF the format one wants is simple. 73, ron, n9ee/r From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 2008/05/04 Sun AM 11:19:48 CDT To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Still looking for an RBI-1; maybe I have to build one At 5/4/2008 04:48, you wrote: Setting up a remote base can be a chore. Now if one wants freq control then the various manufactures use different standards requiring a custom interface for each. I think microcontrollers of today are capable enough to handle this. All that is needed is some memory to handle lookup tables for the various protocols extra program code, and maybe even a DTMF encoder for controlling radios like the Kenwood TM-G707. Speed should not be an issue. Bob NO6B Ron Wright, N9EE 727-376-6575 MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL No tone, all are welcome.
