Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, George wrote: well this amplifier is rated 90 watts you can see it on e-bay just type powerwave in the search. it has error eliminating computer inside and no distortion what so ever. i have it modified and use it at 450 watts and i pushed it with two power supplys that can put more than 120 ampers at 24 volts. the antenna is rated at 500 watts... i wonder why woud they do that...just to put out 5 watts? power over bandwidth. 90W on a 200KHz channel, combined with other channels... Take all that power amplification capability, and put it into a single carrier +/-4.5KHz wide and you've got a nice large peak on the spectrum analyzer. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
On Sun, 25 Apr 2010, Joe wrote: Just be careful. At the ERP antenna output levels that you are playing with and frequencies involved, things can get dangerous for human exposure. Anything above 50W, an OET 65 RF Field Study must be done. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Kevin - I'd like a copy for our files as well, just in case. Thanks! John Hymes La Rue Communications 10 S. Aurora Street Stockton, CA 95202 http://tinyurl.com/2dtngmn - Original Message - From: kevin valentino To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:40 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
On Mon, 26 Apr 2010, George wrote: i looked at the pdf that you refering and there is requirements for mesuring if the signal is more powerful than 1640 watts and the antenna is 10 meters or less accessibel by people...my antenna is more than 10 meters above the closest person and the signal is less powerful than 450 watts. anyway magnetic fields have no effect at the human body...what so ever You'd think that, but have a gander at the FCC Rules, Part 97.13. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 2:20 PM, Kris Kirby k...@catonic.us wrote: On Mon, 26 Apr 2010, George wrote: i looked at the pdf that you refering and there is requirements for mesuring if the signal is more powerful than 1640 watts and the antenna is 10 meters or less accessibel by people...my antenna is more than 10 meters above the closest person and the signal is less powerful than 450 watts. anyway magnetic fields have no effect at the human body...what so ever You'd think that, but have a gander at the FCC Rules, Part 97.13. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR Disinformation Analyst Likewise it is the principal basis on how a microwave oven works, granted the frequency is slightly higher in the oven. There are many microwave ovens in the 800-900 Watt range that still manage to boil water. -- Dan Simmons KC2BEZ President North Country Amateur Radio Club W2LCA http://groups.google.com/group/w2lca
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
It's real handy and easy to use. Actually comes pretty darn close. You're very welcome --- On Sun, 4/25/10, George gueorg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 8:20 AM Sir thank you very much! Everything makes sense in the calculation and the range seems real to me. It came out 8.8 miles usable range --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted.  It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either.  To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk.  Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM  Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM  OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM  ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorgui2@ .. wrote: From: George gueorgui2@ .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM  what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
1 more request for your program. Thanks, Dan KF8DB To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:40:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Ok gents my fingers are getting tired now. If someone wants to hex edit the pertinent info, I'm sure it can be placed somewhere. I am sure the copyright has expired by now. It's an old dos program, but extremely useful. I had it on my original 386. --- On Sun, 4/25/10, daniel haines ridet...@hotmail.com wrote: From: daniel haines ridet...@hotmail.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, April 25, 2010, 9:30 AM 1 more request for your program. Thanks, Dan KF8DB To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com From: kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:40:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
And one more please W6AMS Andy Thanks From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of daniel haines Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 6:31 AM To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far 1 more request for your program. Thanks, Dan KF8DB To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Date: Sat, 24 Apr 2010 21:40:17 -0700 Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com http://us.mc837.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com , kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com http://us.mc837.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Can you send me a copy of the program,please? Thanks, a...@n7tgb.net Richard www.n7tgb.net The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money --Margaret Thatcher _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of kevin valentino Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:40 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ http://us.mc837.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups .com yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ http://us.mc837.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups .com yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Depending on the frequency of the site, they might only be putting out 5 watts of transmit power. Rural sites run more power, and taller antennas to get better range. In a City, they just don't need or want huge amounts of power because it will prevent reuse of the frquencies or cause what's called pilot pollution. From: George gueorg...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, April 25, 2010 2:13:22 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far what do you mean...a cell site in the city radiates much more times than my antenna, its on the same level and shoots directly in peoples houses... --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Al Wolfe k...@... wrote: Sounds like George might be living in a microwave oven. Maybe time to do an RF exposure test? Al, K9SI Re: how far Posted by: George gueorg...@... gueorgui2 Date: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:45 pm ((PDT)) ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. Yahoo! Groups Links http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
The typical cell site is probably running a 10 watt amplifier with an ERP of about 100 watts. City sites probably a lot less power. Your in the high power paging transmitter class. Physical damage can be done in the nearby horizontal field of the antenna using this much power and antenna gain. Joe On 4/25/2010 3:13 PM, George wrote: what do you mean...a cell site in the city radiates much more times than my antenna, its on the same level and shoots directly in peoples houses...
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
With all due respect, I think the question most have in their minds is what are you doing that requires 450 watts at 800 MHz? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: George gueorg...@yahoo.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:08 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far well this amplifier is rated 90 watts you can see it on e-bay just type powerwave in the search. it has error eliminating computer inside and no distortion what so ever. i have it modified and use it at 450 watts and i pushed it with two power supplys that can put more than 120 ampers at 24 volts. the antenna is rated at 500 watts... i wonder why woud they do that...just to put out 5 watts? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: The typical cell site is probably running a 10 watt amplifier with an ERP of about 100 watts. City sites probably a lot less power. Your in the high power paging transmitter class. Physical damage can be done in the nearby horizontal field of the antenna using this much power and antenna gain. Joe
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Your saying that you took a 90 watt amp and modified it to 450 watts? This does not sound believable... The amp you have is possibly a B band analog amp. 90 watts may have been used at the cell site to overcome the combining losses that are involved in putting multiple transmitters on a single cellular antenna. The ERP would probably have still been around 100 watts. You have to have a balance between the cell site transmit power and the cellphone transmit power to make the system work. The paging industry used ERP upwards to 2KW or more to talk to a pager, but that was usually a one-way transmission. Joe Joe On 4/25/2010 4:08 PM, George wrote: well this amplifier is rated 90 watts you can see it on e-bay just type powerwave in the search. it has error eliminating computer inside and no distortion what so ever. i have it modified and use it at 450 watts and i pushed it with two power supplys that can put more than 120 ampers at 24 volts. the antenna is rated at 500 watts... i wonder why woud they do that...just to put out 5 watts? .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
I think your original post said that your antenna would be about 30-40 feet off the ground. Unfortunately, power cannot make up for a low antenna very well. You would need to get your antenna above the surrounding structures and foliage to have an effective system. If your house is on a bald hill with nothing around it, your plan may work very well. If you are surrounded by buildings and trees it may not. The only thing would be to fire it up and see what happens. Just be careful. At the ERP antenna output levels that you are playing with and frequencies involved, things can get dangerous for human exposure. Joe On 4/25/2010 4:29 PM, George wrote: i'll give you the answer: i don't have commertial tower, that is why the high power at the antenna, that is why the high gain from the antenna for receiving, that is why the line is 7/8 heliax foam 30 feet long, that is why a siclair antenna amplifier between the duplexer and the msf5000, now, my car has a 45watt remote installed spectra, modified to use 150 watt C class amplifier and receiving antenna separated from the transmitting antenna, that is why i am using 4 watt MTS2000 all over the city and that is why i ask questions here how far and am i in the ball park with the range of my setup
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
It sounds like you have a linear amplifier. Linear amplifiers are used when multiple low power transmitters are to be amplified by one amplifier. The peak power (actually peak envelope power) capability of the amplifier must be quite high in order to handle the multiple signals without generating intermodultion distortion. The peak envelope power increases by the square of the number of signals going into the amp. N^2 * power Example: two 5 watt signals into the amplifier have a peak envelope power of 20 watts. Three have a PEP of 45 watts. Ten 5 watt signals works out to a PEP of 500 watts. (10^2 = 100*5 watts = 500 watts pep) So if you have ten 5 watt transmitters fed into the amplifier the amplifier must be capable of 500 watts PEP. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far well this amplifier is rated 90 watts you can see it on e-bay just type powerwave in the search. it has error eliminating computer inside and no distortion what so ever. i have it modified and use it at 450 watts and i pushed it with two power supplys that can put more than 120 ampers at 24 volts. the antenna is rated at 500 watts... i wonder why woud they do that...just to put out 5 watts? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_m...@... wrote: The typical cell site is probably running a 10 watt amplifier with an ERP of about 100 watts. City sites probably a lot less power. Your in the high power paging transmitter class. Physical damage can be done in the nearby horizontal field of the antenna using this much power and antenna gain. Joe On 4/25/2010 3:13 PM, George wrote: what do you mean...a cell site in the city radiates much more times than my antenna, its on the same level and shoots directly in peoples houses... Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
I am not saying that you are misleading anyone. I am just pointing out to all that the amplifier, if intended for multiple low power transmitter amplification, is indeed capable of rather high power output. 500 watts PEP output with multiple transmitters fed to it is certainly capable of 500 watts carrier output with a single transmitter. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 7:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far i am using BIRD watt meater with 1000 watt slug and i am not misdirectioning anybody --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Gary Schafer gascha...@... wrote: It sounds like you have a linear amplifier. Linear amplifiers are used when multiple low power transmitters are to be amplified by one amplifier. The peak power (actually peak envelope power) capability of the amplifier must be quite high in order to handle the multiple signals without generating intermodultion distortion. The peak envelope power increases by the square of the number of signals going into the amp. N^2 * power Example: two 5 watt signals into the amplifier have a peak envelope power of 20 watts. Three have a PEP of 45 watts. Ten 5 watt signals works out to a PEP of 500 watts. (10^2 = 100*5 watts = 500 watts pep) So if you have ten 5 watt transmitters fed into the amplifier the amplifier must be capable of 500 watts PEP. 73 Gary K4FMX -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of George Sent: Sunday, April 25, 2010 4:08 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far well this amplifier is rated 90 watts you can see it on e-bay just type powerwave in the search. it has error eliminating computer inside and no distortion what so ever. i have it modified and use it at 450 watts and i pushed it with two power supplys that can put more than 120 ampers at 24 volts. the antenna is rated at 500 watts... i wonder why woud they do that...just to put out 5 watts? --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Joe k1ike_mail@ wrote: The typical cell site is probably running a 10 watt amplifier with an ERP of about 100 watts. City sites probably a lot less power. Your in the high power paging transmitter class. Physical damage can be done in the nearby horizontal field of the antenna using this much power and antenna gain. Joe On 4/25/2010 3:13 PM, George wrote: what do you mean...a cell site in the city radiates much more times than my antenna, its on the same level and shoots directly in peoples houses... Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Wonder if you might supply a link to the program? It would be useful in understanding the range of my 440 machine. Thanks. KA9MXW - Original Message - From: kevin valentino To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo.com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far
Sent the program to George, Bon Hal. If anyone else wants a copy you can ask myself or them. Please do not post It in a file section on any groups, (I look in those), It's copyrighted. It's nothing fancy but does a fairly good job with some nice little utilities to boot. Old as dirt but hey I did'nt pay for it either. To the ones that get it, please let me know how you like it. I have another that's great for calculating transformers and other such good junk. Enjoy --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalent...@sbcglobal.net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 10:31 PM Allright just found the darn program. Was on an older machine. Norton picks up a virus, ARRGH, so i will remove it and send it to ypu. You can share this amongst yourselves but I would appreciate if you DID NOT upload it to any files section of ANY group , it is copyrighted. Back to removing the NYB, wish me luck --- On Sat, 4/24/10, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net wrote: From: kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ sbcglobal. net Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 9:00 PM OK there is a cute little program that actually comes fairly close to calculating effective radio range based on height, power, line loss(has a cable database), and frequency. Add the cavity losses in with the line loss. Calculate the portable at 6 feet, unity gain, using worst case terrain type scenario. I will send it to you. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@yahoo. com wrote: From: George gueorg...@yahoo. com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 8:43 PM ok the antenna is from cell site 14dbm 4-element in a plastic housing, the amplifier is 600 watts capable linear mosfet 8element hybrid splitters and combiners... but the power supply is up to 65 ampers at 24 volts, driven by a C class 130 watt amplifier. the antenna is not on a commercial tower (no luck here). 20 feet above the house. the line is heliax andrew semi-rigid. the repeater is in the attic and the line is 30feet. the duplexer is celwave doesn't like more than 450 watts in. --- In Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com, kevin valentino kevinvalentino@ ... wrote: Any approximation would depend on the repeater antenna height and the terrain of the area. I would hate to see the price tag on an 800MHZ 450W amplifier :-) I do mean literally approximation. Many factors come into play. Especially at high frequencies. The length and type of the antenna feedline, gain of antenna used, etc. --- On Sat, 4/24/10, George gueorg...@. .. wrote: From: George gueorg...@. .. Subject: [Repeater-Builder] how far To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com Date: Saturday, April 24, 2010, 7:24 PM Â what is the range of a 800mhz handheld 4watts with msf5000 repeater 450watts on the antena
