Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I've used these and they work real well: http://www.escalera.com/stairclimbing/index.htm When you are moving something heavy like a repeater cabinet a powered dolly is worth every penny of the rental expense. The 700 lb capacity model costs about $1700 new, and a couple of the local specialty rental companies have them. If you are going to rent one make sure it has the retractable load support option. Mike WA6ILQ At 05:05 PM 08/31/10, you wrote: WE did about the same thing but the cabinet was in the basement and it had to go up a circular staircase. Plus we did not have enough room to keep it away from the wall. So we spent a lot of time taking it apart and then going back together was easier. Much lighter with out everything in it. Butch, KE7FEL/r On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:21 AM, mailto:dmur...@verizon.netdmur...@verizon.net wrote: Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater. ..._._ Aug 31, 2010 01:14:00 AM, mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/30/2010 7:01 PM, Paul Plack wrote: I already know I'd love to have a MII, and the bulk won't be an issue getting it home or storing it, but the proposed site is on a rooftop. That part could get interesting. I may need to devise a truss...and something to hoist the repeater, too! (Rimshot.) LOL! Especially if you're using the MASTR II power supply. Be aware that the M2 PS will draw quite a bit of current even at idle... if you're paying the power bill, or care about someone who does... I have one on in my basement for a link all the time, and live with it... :-) No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3104 - Release Date: 08/30/10 23:34:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
On 8/31/2010 12:34 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Yes, a screwdriver is your friend. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From:dmur...@verizon.net To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater. Try moving one of those Skytel 2-way transmitters up or down a flight of stairs.with 2 people.=:cO
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
A screwdriver is your friend... Try going to the repeater site leaving your tools at home. It only takes one stubborn screw to drive you nuts. Fortunately, friends took pity on my stupidity and brought my tools to the bottom of the hill. 10 seconds and the proper tool and life was good. A screw driver can be a major time saver! I won't say I will never do that again but I hope it does not happen. Not to mention my friend that was driving needs to carry tools in his truck! - Original Message - From: wd8chl To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP On 8/31/2010 12:34 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: Yes, a screwdriver is your friend. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From:dmur...@verizon.net To:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater. Try moving one of those Skytel 2-way transmitters up or down a flight of stairs.with 2 people.=:cO
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater. ..._._ Aug 31, 2010 01:14:00 AM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com wrote: On 8/30/2010 7:01 PM, Paul Plack wrote: I already know I'd love to have a MII, and the bulk won't be an issue getting it home or storing it, but the proposed site is on a rooftop. That part could get interesting. I may need to devise a truss...and something to hoist the repeater, too! (Rimshot.) LOL! Especially if you're using the MASTR II power supply. Be aware that the M2 PS will draw quite a bit of current even at idle... if you're paying the power bill, or care about someone who does... I have one on in my basement for a link all the time, and live with it... :-)
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Yes, a screwdriver is your friend. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: dmur...@verizon.net To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2010 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater.
Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
WE did about the same thing but the cabinet was in the basement and it had to go up a circular staircase. Plus we did not have enough room to keep it away from the wall. So we spent a lot of time taking it apart and then going back together was easier. Much lighter with out everything in it. Butch, KE7FEL/r On Tue, Aug 31, 2010 at 10:21 AM, dmur...@verizon.net wrote: Installed a MSTR II VHF repeater in a six foot cabinet on top of a 17 story building. The elevator got me to the 14th floor but it took 4 of us to get it the other 3 flights. It is possible to haul without a hoist. Next time I do something like this I'm going to remove the repeater and power supply and carry the parts, not the whole repeater. ..._._ Aug 31, 2010 01:14:00 AM, Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comwrote: On 8/30/2010 7:01 PM, Paul Plack wrote: I already know I'd love to have a MII, and the bulk won't be an issue getting it home or storing it, but the proposed site is on a rooftop. That part could get interesting. I may need to devise a truss...and something to hoist the repeater, too! (Rimshot.) LOL! Especially if you're using the MASTR II power supply. Be aware that the M2 PS will draw quite a bit of current even at idle... if you're paying the power bill, or care about someone who does... I have one on in my basement for a link all the time, and live with it... :-)
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Yes. Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board. But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the ferro power supply is really what you should be eliminating. That's a real beast of a vampire. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? I'd go with the M2, hands down. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I agree with Jeff 100%. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Yes. Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board. But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the ferro power supply is really what you should be eliminating. That's a real beast of a vampire. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? I'd go with the M2, hands down. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Understood. IIRC, the MII could use a homebrew supply which provides ~13.6 VDC, so long as the voltage always stays high enough to keep the linear regulator on the 10V card in its happy zone, right? - Original Message - From: Jeff DePolo To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 3:53 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts... The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board. But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the ferro power supply is really what you should be eliminating...
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I inherited one of these with two of radios, one for the repeater, one for a link. On the link PA, the finals were taken out and only the driver was left. Worked fine. -Original Message- Date: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:48:49 pm To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: Paul Plack pl...@xmission.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP I'm working on a UHF ham repeater project for installation some time next year, and was getting set to build one based on 35-watt Mitreks. I've just been offered a 100-watt Mastr II UHF repeater, complete including the cabinet, just taken out of service in a switch to narrow-band equipment. I helped maintain a VHF Mastr II repeater for a club years ago, and once built a UHF repeater out of a converted mobile, so I know the beast a bit, but have two questions... I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? Now, where's my hand truck... 73, Paul, AE4KR
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
On 8/30/2010 6:01 PM, Chuck Kelsey wrote: I agree with Jeff 100%. Me three... Kevin
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
I have a 40watt base PA ready to go if you would like to run that. -Kevin _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Yes. Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. The driver is 40 watts, just bypass the final board. But if you're really trying to safe your landlord's electric bill, the ferro power supply is really what you should be eliminating. That's a real beast of a vampire. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? I'd go with the M2, hands down. --- Jeff WN3A
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Kevin, I'll make a note and get back to you if we move forward, thanks! Is the base PA rated for continuous duty? - Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Kevin King To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 4:49 PM Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP I have a 40watt base PA ready to go if you would like to run that. -Kevin -- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Jeff DePolo Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 5:53 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
On 8/30/2010 3:48 PM, Paul Plack wrote: I'm working on a UHF ham repeater project for installation some time next year, and was getting set to build one based on 35-watt Mitreks. I've just been offered a 100-watt Mastr II UHF repeater, complete including the cabinet, just taken out of service in a switch to narrow-band equipment. I helped maintain a VHF Mastr II repeater for a club years ago, and once built a UHF repeater out of a converted mobile, so I know the beast a bit, but have two questions... I don't know the current frequency, but suspect it's in the 460/465 MHz range. Will it move down into the 440s without a lot of grief? Yup yup yup. Never seen one that didn't, except one that had a dead stage in the receiver, which uhh... made it kinda deaf. ;-) Also, I don't need anywhere near 100 watts, and need to avoid abusing the good nature and power bill of my landlord. (Also hope to have battery backup.) Can the 100-watt UHF PA be jumpered from an intermediate stage to the filter, bypassing the final? I seem to recall these would run at something in the 10-25-watt range with such a mod. Driver board is 40W and on the UHF, it's easy to jumper out (or remove) the final board. VHF, due to having feedback circuitry for RF power control, is a different story. But UHF is a piece of cake. Or, is this just gross overkill for a local repeater, and the Mitrek-based idea more appropriate? They're bulky, but you can't find anything on the market that will outperform them today for SELECTIVITY. You may want a pre-amp on the receiver for SENSITIVITY, depending on other factors of your antenna system and site selection and how far out you want it to hear. You can start whole religious debates about WHICH pre-amplification system to use on them, here on RB. It can get quite entertaining. But they do work better with the RIGHT filtering and pre-amplification on the receive side of things. Now, where's my hand truck... LOL... we spent Sunday moving four MASTR II stations, two power supplies, 7 PAs, and boxes full of spare parts into the pickup truck of another person in the club who has more room for WORKING on all of it, than I did. I love MASTR II's, but I have learned to HATE storing them. :-) Other comments: When you get the station, post photos or look through the LBIs and see what (hopefully factory) configuration it's in. Some were repeaters, some were just stations (remote base, tone-remote, etc) but all can easily be reconfigured to repeater operation. If the PA has a T/R relay on it, you have to deal with that, and there's some articles here on how to do it... personally I just rip the T/R relay off the board completely and bypass the RF on over to the original RCA connector via a VERY short jumper. Others do other things. If it doesn't have a T/R relay on it, you might find that it has a Z-matcher that needs to be tuned. You can start large religious debates about how to do that properly here, too. Some folks disagree with the manufacturer's very simplistic tuning instructions. Your decision. A real repeater will have certain cards in the card shelf up on top. You have lots of options there... use the cards, rip out the cards and wire in an off-board controller, use the controller one manufacturer makes that slides into a card slot... etc. And there's other stuff... the tone boards (separate for exciter/TX and receiver/RX in a normal MASTR II station/repeater), may or may not be present... etc. A photo or three and/or the combination number are worth a thousand words... Post a couple photos of your new pride and joy, and we'll help you figure out which configuration it looks like it's in. The LBI's are also REQUIRED reading, after you've had a visual tour of the station. They're solid, solid, solid radios. Only thing I've come to learn to hate are the 110W VHF PAs. UHF, 100W and 75W are solid, radios are solid. Only other odd thing I ever saw happen to one of them *ever*, was the tone board worked it's way UP off of the pins in a station once, and keyed it continuously... a little double-sided foam tape above the tone board in the covers, takes care of that... if you're even worried about it. Happened once in a decade... to only one station... Anyway... you learn to love 'em and decide that the weight and bulk is worth it... :-) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
Nate, I already know I'd love to have a MII, and the bulk won't be an issue getting it home or storing it, but the proposed site is on a rooftop. That part could get interesting. I may need to devise a truss...and something to hoist the repeater, too! (Rimshot.) This unit is very unlikely to be a modded station...it was originally spec'd for, and has been in, repeater service for years on a mountain top by the original owner. It is said to be spectacularly clean inside and out, and has never had an outage. (I know...two attributes which oddly seem to go together.) The ham repeater's purpose will be to support emergency prep nets and related ops in a couple of suburbs, and a high central point will be available, so a preamp may not be warranted. It may also get used in a crossband scheme during calmer times, and for other experiments in which the widest possible coverage would actually have some downside. Controller will very likely be my S-Com 7K. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Nate Duehr To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, August 30, 2010 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP They're bulky, but you can't find anything on the market that will outperform them today for SELECTIVITY. You may want a pre-amp on the receiver for SENSITIVITY, depending on other factors of your antenna system and site selection and how far out you want it to hear. ...Other comments: When you get the station, post photos or look through the LBIs and see what (hopefully factory) configuration it's in. Some were repeaters, some were just stations... Anyway... you learn to love 'em and decide that the weight and bulk is worth it... :-) -- Nate Duehr, WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Running a Mastr II Repeater QRP
On 8/30/2010 7:01 PM, Paul Plack wrote: I already know I'd love to have a MII, and the bulk won't be an issue getting it home or storing it, but the proposed site is on a rooftop. That part could get interesting. I may need to devise a truss...and something to hoist the repeater, too! (Rimshot.) LOL! Especially if you're using the MASTR II power supply. Be aware that the M2 PS will draw quite a bit of current even at idle... if you're paying the power bill, or care about someone who does... I have one on in my basement for a link all the time, and live with it... :-) This unit is very unlikely to be a modded station...it was originally spec'd for, and has been in, repeater service for years on a mountain top by the original owner. It is said to be spectacularly clean inside and out, and has never had an outage. (I know...two attributes which oddly seem to go together.) If in Amateur service, he probably already pulled all the cards out, etc... ours run with nothing but a 10V regulator card in them, and if we were lucky enough to find a station with a metering kit in it, the meter. Kinda nice for quick checks on tuning, etc... but most of the time we know better than to golden screwdriver a working repeater, and even if it has a metering kit, we leave it alone. The ham repeater's purpose will be to support emergency prep nets and related ops in a couple of suburbs, and a high central point will be available, so a preamp may not be warranted. It may also get used in a crossband scheme during calmer times, and for other experiments in which the widest possible coverage would actually have some downside. Makes sense. All of ours are on mountain-tops quite a distance from the intended coverage areas. Right now, one of them is QRP with the exciter temporarily jumpered to the antenna while the PA is being worked on. Yup... the math shows that after the hybrid combiner we're pushing a whopping 60mW to the 8-bay VHF antenna at 11,440' MSL, and we've had reports that the repeater is S7 and a little fluttery mobile... in the normal coverage area. I'm sure it isn't being heard halfway to Kansas right now, though... nor probably in Cheyenne, WY which it usually reaches just fine. I love our ridiculous HAAT! :-) So anyway, you see why we need the pre-amp. Heh. Hearing a 50W mobile from downtown Cheyenne, WY is kinda a stretch. But it works in the hot-spots/hill-topping. Haha. Even freakier, the UHF works even better up there. (Lower site noise.) Talked to someone on top of the hill East of Laramie, WY on it one night who had a 50W mobile. Me in my living room on an HT in South Denver, he in his big rig, with a very large UHF gain antenna on the mirror mount on the South side of the Westbound truck. That was cool. (Especially since we'd just put it up and wondered how well it would work in the real world after bench-testing the snot out of it.) Controller will very likely be my S-Com 7K. That's what all of ours use, but we're rollin' over slowly to the 7330... Nate
